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Men Take Job Requirements As Suggestions, Women Take Them As Gospel
Personality Plus
Sarah Palin & The Toxic Sisterhood
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
11:29 AM

In reply to Men Take Job Requirements As Suggestions, Women Take Them As Gospel
This is one of those areas where being a boss can really help you put your feminist rhetoric into action. Last time I hired I got tons of overzealous, overconfident guys applying along with women who were clear and concise but almost apologized for listing their qualifications. I hired one of each. The guy was, surprise surprise, all talk.

I'm so happy to have had amazing bosses who saw me as their successor rather than a threat.
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pesematology
09:12 AM

In reply to Personality Plus
Oh for the fuck of shit.

At least you gave us a cute kitten chaser to this drivel.
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pesematology
08:59 AM

In reply to Men Take Job Requirements As Suggestions, Women Take Them As Gospel
Jobs are scary. I am glad I don't have one.
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La Chica Lucy
11/19/09

In reply to Men Take Job Requirements As Suggestions, Women Take Them As Gospel
Hmm. There are several jobs I've wanted but have not applied for due to lack of a degree - but I have 10+ years experience in my field. I might have to rethink things.

Thanks, Latoya, for this and all the awesome posts you've done on the health care fiasco.
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lumenatrix
01:21 PM

@La Chica Lucy: Do It! Apply! All you lose is the 20 minutes it takes you to write the cover letter.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
11/19/09

In reply to Men Take Job Requirements As Suggestions, Women Take Them As Gospel
"A Dell Australia executive says women are too modest about their achievements in the workplace"

Yeah, because if we have the unmitigated gall to even hint that we're good at something, we're vilified by our work culture, our friends and family, and the larger culture, for bragging.

Nice try, Dell.
And fix those Inspiron bugs while you're at it, huh? Before you get hit with another class action suit.
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ronniedobbs
11/19/09

In reply to Men Take Job Requirements As Suggestions, Women Take Them As Gospel
I hope no one is offended by this, but I have always thought about selling a WWWGD- (What Would a White Guy Do?) themed line of merchandise -- bracelets, t-shirts, whatever. There are so many aspects of privileged white male confidence that I (a black woman) find at once problematic and worthy of emulation. This is the perfect example.
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Edited by ronniedobbs at 11/19/09 7:35 PM ronniedobbs was starred ronniedobbs was unstarred

CircleSquare
11/19/09

@ronniedobbs: I think that's genius. Copyright it before someone else makes your millions!
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Jack_Burton
11/19/09

@ronniedobbs: Great idea, indeed. So much of work relationships and especially corporate culture comes down to: "Perception is reality," unfortunately. Even if one's tru talents lie elsewhere, just emanating (and /or emulating) the confidence and assertiveness to take on difficult challenges is definitely a leg-up.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
11:25 AM

@ronniedobbs: I really like it, at least as an eye-catching title a la He's Just Not That Into You (you can make all the apologies for broad generalizations in the intro).

Go get a book deal!
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Dodgergirl
11/19/09

In reply to Men Take Job Requirements As Suggestions, Women Take Them As Gospel
Crap. I hate how true this is for me. hopefully, thinking about this now, I will be able to shame myself into applying to some "reach" jobs and internships for next year.
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Never_Nude
11/19/09

In reply to Men Take Job Requirements As Suggestions, Women Take Them As Gospel
Um, ex-Dell professional here. I worked in marketing at the Mother Ship. There are NO women at the higher executive levels. Mentorship? GAH. Kremer could try hiring a couple and see how that goes. Although I must credit Dell with creating such a shiteous work environment for me that I was compelled to quit and go to law school. Now I have my own law practice and they can SUCK IT. Apparently I can hold a grudge like a Palin, yo.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
11/19/09

@Never_Nude: That's an undervalued talent, Olympic grudge-holding.
Perhaps you'd like an H2H with my mom?
You know, just to keep in practice.

(Congrats on the law practice. We might have to handicap your score for the first couple rounds. :-) )
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Never_Nude
11/19/09

@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: I'm two and a half years in, but trust, I still need my score handicapped. Ha.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
11:26 AM

@Never_Nude: It's so nice to see behind the curtain. And here I was feeling warm and fuzzy about encouragement and mentors. Guess I'll believe it when I see it.
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andromache
11/19/09

In reply to Men Take Job Requirements As Suggestions, Women Take Them As Gospel
I find that this is also true in academia. in my dept, the only person who is completely arrogant is a dude, and he is not as great as he thinks he is. come to think of it, all the assholes in my field whom I've personally met were dudes. some of the women were less than nice, but it was guys who were telling everyone how much better they were than everyone else, even though the women are completely equal in terms of academic skills.
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Diziet_Sma
11/19/09

In reply to Men Take Job Requirements As Suggestions, Women Take Them As Gospel
What a dude. This is so true. My husband went for a job once that specified mastery of a specific computer application - he'd never used it before, lied in the interview, got the job and spent the next three weeks learning it at home after work. He knew he would be great at the important part - the creative part of the job, and refused to let a computer app stand in the way.

Me? No way on earth would I ever have the bottle to do that - I hate the idea of taking on a job that I'm not qualified for, just not worth the stress to me. And he did go through a shitload of stress, although it turned out brilliantly in the end and served his career well. I admire his confidence, and it's taught me to be a little more cavalier, but I'll stay within my own comfort zone, thanks.
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odinsraven
11/19/09

@Diziet_Sma: I am like your husband. If it's just about a particular skill (computer program, filing system, publishing format, etc.) - that shit can be learned. If I have particular intangible skills that really elevate the quality of work, then I'll apply for a position and learn the functional skillset on the job. Fake it 'til you make it.
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Diziet_Sma
11/19/09

@odinsraven: You (and he) are right. I know it, yet I can't…quite…pull it off myself. I'm working on it, though.
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magicwaffle
11/19/09

@Diziet_Sma: I am a dude and I wouldn't lie to get a job.

I might tell the folks that "I can't do this, but I can do this other thing that is awesome and check my references to see how well I learn new skills."

I'd probably not get the job, but I'd feel better about not overselling myself.
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Tippi Hedren
11/19/09

In reply to Men Take Job Requirements As Suggestions, Women Take Them As Gospel
You're too modest - you're weak. You take credit for your accomplishments - you're a bitch. Lose, lose, lose.
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Tippi Hedren
11/19/09

@Tippi Hedren: It's nice though that Kremer is pushing for mentoring. It's a start.
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Myrna_Minkoff
11/19/09

@Tippi Hedren: You said it.

In my experience, a man who puts himself forward despite not being totally fit for a role is ambitious. When a woman does it, she's "reaching" or "over-ambitious."

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Although I guess it's always better to go down fighting...
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logruszed
11/19/09

In reply to Personality Plus
Son, you got a froggie on your head.
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tiredfairy
11/19/09

In reply to Personality Plus
Frog hat!

Sorry, what was that drivel about personalities? I sees a cute kitteh.

What if your personality is based in being consistently unpredictable? What about that, huh?
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Edited by tiredfairy at 11/19/09 5:47 PM tiredfairy was starred tiredfairy was unstarred

salthegeek
11/19/09

In reply to Personality Plus
What really? All my friends-that-are-girls have way more personalities than me. Then again I have none.
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Diziet_Sma
11/19/09

In reply to Sarah Palin & The Toxic Sisterhood
Lorraine Candy is also the editor of Elle in the UK, much to the mystification of most people in the magazine and fashion industries there. But I guess that's just because they're jealous, right Lorraine?
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Edited by Diziet_Sma at 11/19/09 5:47 PM Diziet_Sma was starred Diziet_Sma was unstarred

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