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New York, 3:07 AM
Tue Nov 24
65 posts in the last 24 hours
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04/15/09
Also Morrissey reminded me why it's important to be a veg:
"I think animals need all the help they can get, because they have none. They have no rights. They have no protection. And so I think animals need help. And I think animals look to humans for protection, and of course humans lead them into slaughterhouses, which to me is just like an image of leading children into a slaughterhouse. There's no difference. That level of trust and… But it's a very cruel world."
Bless you Moz.
04/15/09
Now I eat steak before and during my period and I don't feel like I want to die.
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I don't get why vegetarianism is so mocked, and not taken seriously. I'm not a militant veg-head, either. I don't eat meat, but my husband does, and I'll even cook it for him on the few occasions when the situation warrants. It doesn't bother me to eat out with folks who have meat on their plate and I've never once tried to persuade anyone else to go vegetarian. Despite all this, I have several friends and acquaintances who seem to be personally affronted or at the very least, amused by my lifestyle choice and feel the need to openly mock it.
I just feel like if I were a vegetarian for religious or health purposes instead of just because I don't like eating animals, people would be a lot less inclined to give me shit about it. Or maybe they wouldn't. Thoughts?
04/15/09
some people don't want to think about what they're eating, which is what you make them do (even if you say nothing and simply order your own meal with no meat ingredients). so they deflect and say the things you mention.
this used to happen to me a little bit when i first became a vegetarian, and i think it was partly because i was a bit preachy back in the day. so people retaliated with this kind of teasing.
nowadays i don't even tell anybody i'm a vegetarian when i go out to eat. i just scan the menu and pick something on it without meat.
i wouldn't take it so personally. if you can think of some kind of jokey thing to say back to them, that's probably the best route. because then they see they can't get you flustered, that their opinion means zero to you. this will usually stop them.
04/15/09
I had a friend in college who was a vegan and she was never preachy about it and the topic only came up when we were going out to dinner (she needed to make sure there were vegan options). But I've had many more friends who are militant vegans and rock "Murder King" shirts to dinner and have lectured me on how I would be a much better person if I stopped eating meat. One friend in my group refused to go to dinner with any of us if we were going to eat meat because she said it made her nauseated.
I think the bottom line is that a few preachy omnivores and a few preachy vegheads can ruin it for everyone.
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I think I'd rather get made fun of for being a vegetarian any day. Still, I don't point and make rude comments when I see people eating triple cheeseburgers.
04/15/09
I've met very few vegans who aren't that way. Perhaps because I was in college and when you're young, it's fun to be militant like that, but it was annoying to say the least.
There was a big long e-mail thread at my first post-college job (at a very crunchy, eco conscious company) a woman berated management for ordering Indian food that was only vegetarian and not vegan friendly.
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it was actually harder to give up my leather clothes! but even as somebody who competed in dressage (horseback riding) i was able to find synthetic leather substitutes.
some of the poorest people on this planet in asia and africa live a purely vegan lifestyle. this discounts the vegan=rich elitist argument. whether or not somebody chooses this dietary path is purely their own decision. i realized after my first few years of being vegetarian that nobody wants to be preached at, and that most people who eat meat aren't going to give it up until they question it enough themselves.
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"A lot of people who (are veg*n) are obnoxious jerks. Therefore, (veg*nism) is wrong."
A lot of meat-eaters are obnoxious jerks. But that's not what makes meat-eating (in our current system) problematic.
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then there are the vegans who feel the need to make a scene about everything with animal products in it. the hardcore activists with the absolutist attitudes make sure they are heard.
it is human nature to notice the obnoxious person, but not the meek person standing beside them. not all vegans and vegetarians are obnoxious, but if they aren't their eating habits would not necessarily come up as a topic of conversation. have you had a discussion with everybody you know about your eating habits?
and thus, we get our reputation from the obnoxious jerks.
04/15/09
1. vegans who are so because of their health are perfectly capable of staying vegan when their prior health situation included a near death experience. i know several people who are scared to death of the hormones included in meat and dairy.
2. i love animals... but if i was certain the animals on my plate were treated well and killed in a humane manner (of which i cannot fathom) i still wouldn't eat them.
3. a cannibal asked what drove him to eat people replied that years ago, the people of his culture had no other way of maintaining a nutritious diet. as they learned to herd animals and grow fruit, they stopped eating people. i feel that many humans fall back on the idea that we have learned to herd animals, and if we are smart enough to do this in an organized fashion we should be eating meat. personally, i feel that we should move to the next step in an intelligent society. if we are smart enough to attain the appropriate level of nutrition without killing another sentient being, then we should leave meat eating behind us.
that being said, it is my personal opinion. i have friends who eat meat who just like meat. it isn't my place to judge them for it. i would, however, appreciate that they not judge me for my decisions on the matter.
04/15/09
What I dislike is eating meat because it's just "what people are supposed to do," or alternately, "what men do." If you like it, you like it, but at least consider trying vegetables! Or consider eating some tofu when I cook it! I've known people who won't do either--and it sometimes seems to be attached to an obsession with masculinity.
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It's interesting though, because the roommate is such a dude and he's vegan in the most conventionally masculine way - doesn't eat a lot of vegetables, consumes mostly a diet of fake meat products and is very very vocal about his veganism being the Right Way to Eat and Live. On the other hand, my brother's male vegan roommate has been so for over 10 years, and is one of those incredible male feminists we all look for who is into deconstructing our ideas of masculinity (he's publishing a magazine about it) and he doesn't bring his veganism up all the time as self-congratulation and he cooks delicious food. Sorry ladies, he's also not available.
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[www.mascmag.com]
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After that, I talked to some other expats living in Morocco who had been invited to their first Eids as well. They were meat-eaters and could not watch the sheep being killed and had to go inside so not to witness it. I thought it interesting that I wasn't bothered by it as much as those who ate meat, and wondered if it had to do with the connection I had made internally that this is what meat is, essentially. I often look at meat and see muscle tissue. I was also impressed because it brought back a connection between the food we eat and its source. It seemed so much more natural than buying a package of lamb from the supermarket and not knowing where it came from at all.
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I'm also very fascinated by meat, especially gourmet meats and exotic meats that I'd never tried because I was young when I was an omnivore. Part of me wishes I would have tried more local delicacies and partaken in local traditions that involved meat. I felt a bit rude refusing the sheep due to this bizarre concept of being vegetarian.
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From an ethical standpoint, I know what has to happen for an animal to be bred, raised, slaughtered, butchered, and prepared for my dining room table. I've seen a lot of it first-hand. My dad's cattle are all free-range, he raises all their food himself (alfalfa, grass, hay, straw, etc) and they only receive medication if they have a health problem. I know a lot of factory farms are not that rigorous in terms of humane standards, but--and call me cruel--it has simply never bothered me.
That's why it's sometimes difficult for me to engage in discussions of the ethics of eating meat. It's not really a facet of the omnivore/herbivore argument that has ever swayed me.
I've often been curious about how many folks here grew up on a farm, and if it changes your perceptions on the ethics of meat-eating. For instance, Dr. Temple Grandin (fascinating lady - look her up!) has worked for many years studying livestock and designing feedlot/slaughterhouse equipment that is more humane, and she eats meat too. Some people spend a lot of time around animals and have no problem using them for meat; for some people, it changes their mind forever. Has anyone else had an experience like this one way or another?
04/15/09
That said, I don't, myself, hunt. And I'm open to the possibility that were I to be presented with the opportunity to actually kill a deer or similar mammal, it would be a game-changer for me.
04/15/09
I read up on antibiotic-resistant staph bacteria in pork products, salmonella in chicken, mad cow in beef and the general filth of meat processing plants. And while I've never been struck down with serious illness from my food, not only was it not worth the chance, I wasn't going to fork over my money to these companies who weren't going to make any changes any time soon. I came out of that phase being more concientious of the animal products I do buy, particularly staying away from highly processed ones.
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I am actually having fake-bacon BTLs tonight. :)
04/15/09
There is such a thing as ethical meat, dairy and eggs, and that's the only thing I'll buy anymore.
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I have never eaten meat in my life.
Even in the womb, no fish, no meat.
I do not know what it tastes like, so I can't really say if I miss it or not. I do know that my body will tell me when it needs protein, and I have to be more careful of my shopping and where I eat out, but for me the issues come with other people.
For me, not eating meat is just how I was raised. It's my culture. I don't care about "teh poor bunnies!!11!" [ok, I used to have a pet rabbit. I care] and it's not a moral issue for me. I don't force my choice on others and I get offended when other vegans and vegetarians chew me out because I'm not "with them" on that.
It's your body- eat what you like- long as it's legal. Don't force me to try meat [and yes, I have caught people trying to "hide" meat in my food] and I won't even blink when you eat your bacon burger for dinner.
And Mr.Scotvixen my SO eats meat. We have a separate cupboard in the fridge for his stuff, and mine. He cooks his own meat, we share veggie cooking and live happily.
It can lead to interesting conversations and if people would keep open minds they can learn lots.
I miss living in Japan where it wasn't that big of an issue, but man, personally, Americans *love* to get me to try and eat cows.
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People always joke about that, have you really seen people do it?! Holy crap! Can't that make you really sick?
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Mmm..cheese...*drools*
04/15/09