I received death threats on girls on IM. These girls were in my gym class and didn't like me. They said I was "annoying and should watch myself." The police got involved but nothing ever came of it. If it weren't for the internet, I would have only been objected to a few passive aggressive comments in the locker room.
How do you deal with it if the bully is your boss? Ultimately I left, but I wonder if there is anyway to handle it and improve the situation in case next time I have a boss like that I actually enjoy the work I'm doing. She was passive aggressive, took credit for my work and gave me all the blame for anything that went wrong even when she had signed off on it. She was also inappropriately friendly and controlling over one of my co-workers, basically making her job dependent on going to events with her outside working hours, inviting herself to this girl's apartment to use her cable, and having her perform tasks outside her job description. Neither of us were ever able to stand up to her and we both quit.
I know that some people have terrible problems with bullying, but I just graduated HS in June and I never, ever had issues that were terrible like this. No one I know is nasty on facebook, hardly anyone dealt with clique problems- we didn't even really have cliques at all. I was a member of many different groups of friends and, like most people, I floated between them with no problems at all.
I'm worried that some parents read this and get terrified that their girls will automatically have a horrible time, but that's really not true. It happens some places, but definitely not everywhere.
My mean girl-ness mostly took the form of not speaking up for someone when I knew I should have. Looking back, it's almost as bad as directly picking on someone. There are a lot of particular instances that haunt me. I wish I had had the guts to stand my ground. All I can do now is not become a mean woman, which there are plenty of in the office. Office politics are ridiculous and too often people use the "this stuff goes on in every office" excuse. I've found that to be true so far, but let's dare to be different. I say this to mean men, too.
How does one deal with bullies in the workplace when they are no longer specifically targeting you?
I went to college with a girl who is now in a supervisory role where I work, though not my direct supervisor. During our first year at school, she was part of a group who harassed me regularly and heavily, including death threat phone calls and whiteboard messages calling for violence against me. I haven't exactly forgiven or forgotten, because they were adults and should have known better.
At work, now, she acts like we're the best of friends because we knew eachother in college. I find this very uncomfortable. She also bullied my best friend, who is trans and not out, when he worked there, trying to out him to coworkers (he transitioned in college, so she knew him briefly before). She is no longer specifically targeting me, but a coworker. I've tried to offer what comfort I can ("She's just like this, and always has been."), but it's not much.
I read the original Queen Bees and Wannabees, and while it was interesting, I had a hard time trying to apply it to the teenagers I know.
Do you have any demographic/regional/racial data for the girls you spoke with? I would be interested to see where these trends were occurring.
In addition, I would love a clarification on the term "hip-hop outfits." In my work, I tend to notice that people use the term "hip-hop" when they mean urban or black (or occasionally Latino), and most people use this term incorrectly. Are you talking about what students wear if they identify with hip-hop culture, or are you talking about imitating styles normally seen in popular music videos?
@LatoyaPeterson: re: hip-hop outfits, I thought she was talking specifically to the types of dance recital wear that kids are wearing to performances.
I went to a performance of a friend's daughter for her hip-hop dance class & was surprised to see girls in soffee shorts rolled up to their butts & wearing fishnets
Also isn't mostly the case that most girls at different points in their life (middle school, high school, college) are bullies and bullied/the mean girl or victim of mean girls.
Not necessarily 'mean girls" but moreso I have my clique of friends and noone else is allowed to join in.
And in terms of bullying or mean girl behavior, i mean stuff like gossiping about others, freezing someone out of your clique if you have a fight.I feel most people experience both sides of the fence. Doing it to someone, having someone do it to you.
@SarahMC: one time some guy on the bus told me as I was leaving to get my "fat ass" off the bus (and let me just say I was an 80 lb 13 yr old at the time he was just lashing out using words he understood would be hurtful to a young woman. he was an idiot) and I just turned around and punched him in the nose. I made him bleed. Apparently (according to my friends cause I hit him and then got off the bus) everyone on the bus was laughing at him because "a girl made him bleed." and I was pretty pleased about it even though you know...sexist implications and all that.
@SarahMC: I had bad experiences in high school. I too, was glad he killed himself after high school. As warped as it may be its comforting to know that I'm not the only one to harbour such feelings towards a bully.
@bunnypants: I am sure my bully must have had a fucked up life or something, but as a kid I fell asleep in my parents' bed every night, crying whilst my dad gently rubbed my back and sang my lullabies. It was horrible.
Was yours named Eugene?
I must admit Rosalind comes off much better in this interview than in my previous experience with her. She gave a talk at my high school that I found downright insulting in what I perceived as its preponderance of cliches, reductive take on teenagers' interactions, and ample use of the "ooo, evil girls are always undermining each other!!" meme. It was cutesy and patronizing, and I felt talked-down to. She spoke to the girls and boys separately, and the boys actually went so far as to boo her off the stage, which was horrible of them, granted. There's just something that makes me uncomfortable about the way that the "queen bee" and "wannabee" talking points have been adopted in public discourse. When I was a teenaged girl, I really was insulted by it, by simplistic portrayals of cruel girls and their victims that had nothing to do with my own experience, by magazine articles (I'm looking at you, Newsweek!) that claimed, in addition to alpha girls and non-alpha girls, to have found *gasp* a third kind of girl! It seems that perhaps I projected too much of this onto Rosalind and her book and not enough on the, frankly, often sexist ways in which I've heard her book and its ideas discussed in mainstream media and by well-meaning but old-fashioned teachers.
Did anyone else read the first Queen Bees and Wannabees and see Mean Girls and feel like they had absolutely nothing to do with their lives at all?
The social structure described in the book just did not exist in my life. Maybe a bit in elementary school, but hardly even then
@colormeroutine: yep. Not to be critical of the book but I do feel like it gets sort of accepted as a universal truth and I just didn't relate to it at all, and I'm not THAT old.
@bluebears: I'm so glad other people feel this way. Whenever I come across the subject, I start to worry that maybe I'm a Queen Bee myself because I just don't get it. Not to minimize the problems at all, I just don't think they are as universal as the media describes it.
@colormeroutine: The social structure is foreign to me as well. I would describe my high school experience as one with tiers of students. The popular people populated the honors classes and were involved in all the extra-curriculars. Within that main group, there were the most populars and the second tier, I'd say. I was definitely second-tier. The most populars made me nervous. We intermingled but they were selective about when they'd talk to you or even look at you. I wasn't invited to their parties but since my boyf was in that group, I spent time around them sometimes. It was a strange dynamic. There wasn't bullying but it was obvious which people were the most important.
@colormeroutine: I haven't read the book, but the first time I saw Mean Girls I was a little upset by it because a lot if it hit close to home. I had just started college when the movie came out and it brought back vivid memories that I'd only just gotten over.
Now I think it's fuckin hilarious. Out of pain come laughter, I guess.
@SarahMC: Yeah, we didn't have "tiers" at all. I guess there were "types" sort of, but they interacted with each other all the time and it wasn't a problem. Within the types no one was "in charge". There wasn't any person you could point to and be like "yeah the other kids want to be like them/be friends with them" particularly
@colormeroutine: I was popular in school and a lot of Mean Girls rang true for me. What stood out as completely unreal was how the boys were so chill and above it all. That was so not the case.
@colormeroutine: It resonated with me, though not at that age--more like 7th-9th grade, or the equivalent where I grew up. We certainly had a mean girl clique, with a ringleader and all, and a bunch of outliers, of which I was one. The same kind of fake-nice undermining behaviour was very much used. But by the time we got to be about 15 or 16 we were all a bit over it, and our own Regina was isolated and eventually left.
I'm a college sophomore and last year I had to deal with some serious Mean-Girls-type shit, some of which has trickled into this year. I go to a small music school, so a little bit of cattiness can get you a long way and a lot of people still act immature enough that my friends and I sometimes jokingly call it "[our school's name] High School."
I kind of had to realize that I really have to stop giving a shit about what certain people who need to grow up think and just live my life and ignore them. That's really hard to do in middle school & high school though, where it feels like it is (and occasionally truly is) coming from everywhere and everyone.
@Erda: You know, I read your comment and thought, "That's insane. In college?" Then I woke up from my hazy dream and remembered my last up-to-my-neck-in-mean-girl-shit era: grad school, when I was 32.
You are wise and wonderful to figure this out now, how much it can feel like it matters, and how little it really does.
Can I just add that the most dramatic/annoying/evil people in my high school experience have been across the board all male? I mean, sure I've dealt with my fair share of bitchy, catty girls, but if I had to make a generalization of which gender has given me the most shit in high school it'd definitely be the one with a penis.
@JessickerFletcher: Me too. By high school, the girls largely left me alone (I was a bit of an outcast, though I did make a few friends in high school), but the boys were horrible bullies.
I'd be very interested to hear if she has done any follow-up work with her subjects. Specifically I'm interested to see how youthful queen bees fare as adults.
The queen bees of my school have led fairly conventional lives- married somewhat early, had children, and followed expected paths. Their queen-bee-ness did not translate into any real-world leadership.
Elementary school was more torturous than middle or high school for me. I was a goody two-shoes throughout childhood so I was scared of everything and sheepish and nerdy, but I had my group of friends. But I remember maybe 3rd and 4th grade as the nastiest as far as Mean Girls (and boys) go.
@SarahMC: yeah I had that experience as well. I was more picked on in grade school by little boys than I was ever picked on by girls. I remember these two guys would tease me a lot. At the time I was upset about it but looking back I think that was there way of getting my attention. I mean, yeah there was the odd asshole here and there once I got to middle/h.s. but beyond that I don't really have any horror stories.
ETA: but then again I had my own personal issues in high school and I think that those made me sort of oblivious to a lot of the typical mean girl b.s. I just didn't give a fuck.
10/14/09
10/13/09
How do you deal with it if the bully is your boss? Ultimately I left, but I wonder if there is anyway to handle it and improve the situation in case next time I have a boss like that I actually enjoy the work I'm doing. She was passive aggressive, took credit for my work and gave me all the blame for anything that went wrong even when she had signed off on it. She was also inappropriately friendly and controlling over one of my co-workers, basically making her job dependent on going to events with her outside working hours, inviting herself to this girl's apartment to use her cable, and having her perform tasks outside her job description. Neither of us were ever able to stand up to her and we both quit.
10/13/09
I'm worried that some parents read this and get terrified that their girls will automatically have a horrible time, but that's really not true. It happens some places, but definitely not everywhere.
10/13/09
10/13/09
How does one deal with bullies in the workplace when they are no longer specifically targeting you?
I went to college with a girl who is now in a supervisory role where I work, though not my direct supervisor. During our first year at school, she was part of a group who harassed me regularly and heavily, including death threat phone calls and whiteboard messages calling for violence against me. I haven't exactly forgiven or forgotten, because they were adults and should have known better.
At work, now, she acts like we're the best of friends because we knew eachother in college. I find this very uncomfortable. She also bullied my best friend, who is trans and not out, when he worked there, trying to out him to coworkers (he transitioned in college, so she knew him briefly before). She is no longer specifically targeting me, but a coworker. I've tried to offer what comfort I can ("She's just like this, and always has been."), but it's not much.
10/13/09
10/13/09
I read the original Queen Bees and Wannabees, and while it was interesting, I had a hard time trying to apply it to the teenagers I know.
Do you have any demographic/regional/racial data for the girls you spoke with? I would be interested to see where these trends were occurring.
In addition, I would love a clarification on the term "hip-hop outfits." In my work, I tend to notice that people use the term "hip-hop" when they mean urban or black (or occasionally Latino), and most people use this term incorrectly. Are you talking about what students wear if they identify with hip-hop culture, or are you talking about imitating styles normally seen in popular music videos?
10/13/09
I went to a performance of a friend's daughter for her hip-hop dance class & was surprised to see girls in soffee shorts rolled up to their butts & wearing fishnets
10/13/09
Not necessarily 'mean girls" but moreso I have my clique of friends and noone else is allowed to join in.
And in terms of bullying or mean girl behavior, i mean stuff like gossiping about others, freezing someone out of your clique if you have a fight.I feel most people experience both sides of the fence. Doing it to someone, having someone do it to you.
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
Was yours named Eugene?
10/13/09
10/13/09
The social structure described in the book just did not exist in my life. Maybe a bit in elementary school, but hardly even then
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
Now I think it's fuckin hilarious. Out of pain come laughter, I guess.
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
I kind of had to realize that I really have to stop giving a shit about what certain people who need to grow up think and just live my life and ignore them. That's really hard to do in middle school & high school though, where it feels like it is (and occasionally truly is) coming from everywhere and everyone.
10/13/09
You are wise and wonderful to figure this out now, how much it can feel like it matters, and how little it really does.
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
The queen bees of my school have led fairly conventional lives- married somewhat early, had children, and followed expected paths. Their queen-bee-ness did not translate into any real-world leadership.
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
ETA: but then again I had my own personal issues in high school and I think that those made me sort of oblivious to a lot of the typical mean girl b.s. I just didn't give a fuck.