If you take all of the supernatural elements out of the Twilight series you are left with a series about a controlling stalker who then marries his victim, which turns into domestic abuse and subjection. Not something I would want my kids to idolize.
@la.donna.pietra: I met her a few years ago, when Out of Egypt came out and up to that point I was a huge fan. She asked me the origins of my name as she was signing my book and I told her it was an Arabic name and she made a weird expression and kind of ushered me along. #vampires
Protection and wisdom? I thought women liked vampires because being hypnotized by a gorgeous supernatural being let them have hot sex without responsibility. #vampires
Can I just say how much I hate that the whole "women want protection/old man" thing is tossed around, like it's not some ingrained, creepy, sexist trope that, when used in stories like the above...should be critiqued anddemystified.
I get the fantasy element, and I'm certainly not claiming that Twilight or its ilk are the cause of anything. But stalker-as-love stories really need to be questioned more often. #vampires
@tiredfairy: Ack, won't let me edit. Also just wanted to say that I find obsessive love stories to be...deeply troubling. As they should be. What worries me is when they're projected as something real life should emulate, even a little. #vampires
@tiredfairy: One of the thing that ticks me off about obsessive love stories is that they're portrayed as somehow "more passionate" than real, lasting, healthy love. It's so hard to find love stories where there's a meeting of the minds and partnership. (Lord Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane are such a sexy couple, and I want more of that!) #vampires
@tiredfairy: Excellent points all around. I once read an article that suggested that most of the love stories portrayed in popular rom coms clearly veered into stalker territory. It really made me think about all these depictions of love stories that I had swooned over throughout the years.
What really troubles me is that these legions of young girls adore Edward Cullen not despite- but BECAUSE- he creeps in to spy on an unsuspecting Bella sleeping, his declarations that he's addicted to her, that he'd kill himself if she ever left him, etc... That shit belongs in an episode of Law and Order, not in a movie franchise about "the greatest romance of our generation." #vampires
@LilyBonesBurana: Yeah it's really, world weary and "wise", but still young looking and pretty. And apparently crazypants.
And hey, I love a good brood. Vamps make great existential characters, burdened with the weight of immortality if they have half a brain. I wouldn't want to be stuck at 17, though, I have to tell you. That sounds depressing as hell. #vampires
@lurkerbynature: Yep! It's the whole, it's SO romantic! No, actually, it's not. If someone follows you home, creeps into your room, and threatens to kill themselves without you, then you should probably get them checked into a psychiatric hospital.
Stuff like this is the reason I prefer romance like Austen. Plenty of drama and everything, but also lots of social critique and examinations of different relationship. Generally the overly passionate ones (Wickham, Willoughby) don't end all that well. #vampires
@tiredfairy: Yeah. I was subjected to something eerily similar to the Edward Cullen treatment in college. (Hot/cold, check. "You're a drug to me" line, check. Watching me at home through the window, check. Suicide threats, check.) It's scary as hell and makes you want to run screaming in the other direction and then deadbolt your doors and put all the blinds down. (On a side note, unrequited love sucks big fat hairy huevos for the person who isn't in love too.)
I guess most of the romances I go for are the ones in non-Romance books. If they're solving a mystery or trying to survive an alien planet together, they're much more likely to fall in love like sane beings. #vampires
Guys, I'm reading "Twilight" right now (mostly to see if it's really as bad/good as all that) and... I'm halfway through and I think I have to stop. It's... so bad. And boring. And regarding what Ms. Rice says, it's pretty creepy too.
I'm going to nerd out here and admit that I'm also watching True Blood right now, which I really like. And here's the difference between the two: Bella seems brainwashed by the sparkle-vamp, whereas Sookie actually has her own power the vampires don't have.
In both, the reason for the main relationship is that the two can't read each others minds (so it's, you know, meant to be -- mystery! excitement!). But in the case of Bella, Edward has all the power, he just can't read her for whatever reason, while Sookie CAN read everyone except for Bill.
SO, what that means is that yeah, Bella is drawn to the mystery and danger and protection offered by the sparkle-vamp, but Sookie is just thrilled she can't hear everything Bill's thinking and have a normal relationship. Bella wants mystery, Sookie wants a boyfriend. While Bella is repeatedly saved from essentially herself by Edward, Bill only has to rescue Sookie because she's associated herself with him. Bill's dangerous, not safe.
So. IMO, True Blood is completely awesome, while Twilight completely sucks. And I kind of love how much True Blood is just all about sex and bodies and just pure physicality. It's a nice break from all the convoluted emotional dramas on TV.
And I'll add the disclaimer that I've only made it through about half of both so far, but this is the sense I've gotten.
And I have waaay too much time on my hands, writing all of this. Oh well.. #vampires
@the grid girl: I haven't tried Twilight yet, but the Sookie books and True Blood seem much better to me. Yeah the books are cheesy, but entertaining enough that I read all of them in 10 days. The only thing that sucks is then you have a basic outline for an entire season of shows. Alan Ball has made some big changes to the stories but you still know what's coming!!! #vampires
@the grid girl: Nothing nerdy about liking the show "True Blood", from what I can see from the commercials. It looks sexy and kitschy. And the male leads are delicious.
As beautiful (and seemingly nice enough) as Robert Pattinson and the "Twilight" kids are, the series is kind of embarrassing. Even if it IS enjoyable watching two beautiful, moody, brooding teenagers all over each other ("older man"? Edward might be 200 but he's still living as a high school stuent)...probably doesn't outweigh the shittier elements of Twilight (books or movies, which is worse)?
If the movies are dumb, I could not imagine reading the books. Even the "Harry Potter" books grated me occasionally (still enjoy the movies alot though, especially now that the kids are older and the series is richer and darker). #vampires
I don't think what she said is so ridiculous. I mean, clearly it's not universal, but I do think that one of the reasons that both Edward and Bill appeal to so many women is the desiring of a sense of mystery and protection. I know, especially when I was younger and super into the vampire thing, that the idea of the mysterious, super strong protective boyfriend held some appeal- and that included Angel, whose girlfriend needed absolutely no protection at all.
I'm not defending either of the above characters as people I actually have a deep desire for in real life, but I do understand where she's coming from. #vampires
The only thing that Twilight reflects (and perpetuates) is the deeply rooted cultural conditioning that females are subjected to from day one. Creepy stalker watching you sleep? Ohmigod true love!!!!
@curiousgeorgiana: Seriously- that's not just a generational, "I grew up with Sesame Street, you grew up with radio" kind of thing- that's experiencing THE INVENTION OF MOVABLE TYPE PRINTING. WHAT ON EARTH WOULD THEY TALK ABOUT. [en.wikipedia.org]
(Sorry for the caps. I just realized the MAJOR time difference.)
Remember, it's considered both protection and implied consent if your human lady passes out during sex. I wish my "protectors" would treat me as such. Hooray gender roles! Hooray assault! Hooray patriarchy and unrealistic portrayals of relationships and emotional attachment!
..but True Blood is pretty sweet. I'll get on-board with that. #vampires
OHMYGOD, Anne. You just gave millions of pervy older man the green light to keep on harassing younger women because they surely need their "protection" & "wisdom"!
Btw, if anyone ever meets a "wise" older man, let me know. The ones I've met are creepy & think being with a younger woman will boost their sagging virility. It doesn't. #vampires
@Highsmith: Agree. The only wiser, older man I've seen lately is Keith Carradine on Dexter and he's fictional and seemingly outnumbered in Miami by psychos by about twenty to one. #vampires
@Sputnik_Sweetheart: It depends on how you see it. If someone was creeping into my bedroom and watching me sleep, I would want someone to protect me! The difference is that I would want that protection from someone who wasn't stalking me, so kinda fail... #vampires
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I get the fantasy element, and I'm certainly not claiming that Twilight or its ilk are the cause of anything. But stalker-as-love stories really need to be questioned more often. #vampires
10/24/09
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What really troubles me is that these legions of young girls adore Edward Cullen not despite- but BECAUSE- he creeps in to spy on an unsuspecting Bella sleeping, his declarations that he's addicted to her, that he'd kill himself if she ever left him, etc... That shit belongs in an episode of Law and Order, not in a movie franchise about "the greatest romance of our generation." #vampires
10/25/09
And hey, I love a good brood. Vamps make great existential characters, burdened with the weight of immortality if they have half a brain. I wouldn't want to be stuck at 17, though, I have to tell you. That sounds depressing as hell. #vampires
10/25/09
Stuff like this is the reason I prefer romance like Austen. Plenty of drama and everything, but also lots of social critique and examinations of different relationship. Generally the overly passionate ones (Wickham, Willoughby) don't end all that well. #vampires
10/25/09
I guess most of the romances I go for are the ones in non-Romance books. If they're solving a mystery or trying to survive an alien planet together, they're much more likely to fall in love like sane beings. #vampires
10/24/09
Screw mystery and protection. I desire a killer DVD collection and the ability to move heavy pieces of furniture. #vampires
10/24/09
I'm going to nerd out here and admit that I'm also watching True Blood right now, which I really like. And here's the difference between the two: Bella seems brainwashed by the sparkle-vamp, whereas Sookie actually has her own power the vampires don't have.
In both, the reason for the main relationship is that the two can't read each others minds (so it's, you know, meant to be -- mystery! excitement!). But in the case of Bella, Edward has all the power, he just can't read her for whatever reason, while Sookie CAN read everyone except for Bill.
SO, what that means is that yeah, Bella is drawn to the mystery and danger and protection offered by the sparkle-vamp, but Sookie is just thrilled she can't hear everything Bill's thinking and have a normal relationship. Bella wants mystery, Sookie wants a boyfriend. While Bella is repeatedly saved from essentially herself by Edward, Bill only has to rescue Sookie because she's associated herself with him. Bill's dangerous, not safe.
So. IMO, True Blood is completely awesome, while Twilight completely sucks. And I kind of love how much True Blood is just all about sex and bodies and just pure physicality. It's a nice break from all the convoluted emotional dramas on TV.
And I'll add the disclaimer that I've only made it through about half of both so far, but this is the sense I've gotten.
And I have waaay too much time on my hands, writing all of this. Oh well.. #vampires
10/24/09
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As beautiful (and seemingly nice enough) as Robert Pattinson and the "Twilight" kids are, the series is kind of embarrassing. Even if it IS enjoyable watching two beautiful, moody, brooding teenagers all over each other ("older man"? Edward might be 200 but he's still living as a high school stuent)...probably doesn't outweigh the shittier elements of Twilight (books or movies, which is worse)?
If the movies are dumb, I could not imagine reading the books. Even the "Harry Potter" books grated me occasionally (still enjoy the movies alot though, especially now that the kids are older and the series is richer and darker). #vampires
10/24/09
I'm not defending either of the above characters as people I actually have a deep desire for in real life, but I do understand where she's coming from. #vampires
10/24/09
Puke. #vampires
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I'm just going to assume by "older" you meant 5 centuries older. I hope. But still creepy Anne Rice. #vampires
10/24/09
(Sorry for the caps. I just realized the MAJOR time difference.)
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..but True Blood is pretty sweet. I'll get on-board with that. #vampires
10/24/09
Btw, if anyone ever meets a "wise" older man, let me know. The ones I've met are creepy & think being with a younger woman will boost their sagging virility. It doesn't. #vampires
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Ah, if only I had premium cable! Miss my Dexter :(. #vampires
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@rd2uk: Is it this one? People scare me sometimes. #vampires
10/24/09
F*ck Twilight, I'd just imagine that shadow as Robert Pattinson or an equally handsome, doting counterpart wishing me a a nice safe day.
It's the pissed-off/smug looking cut-outs that get my goat. [spincycles.files.wordpress.com]
10/24/09