If it were my kid who got raped, I'd have no problem with this.
Mentally retarded or not, the guy obviously needs to be locked up somewhere and kept away from little kids. Clearly the support system he has now failed catastrophically.
I feel very bad that this happened to the 6-year-old. He's not mentally equipped to really understand any of this.
Unfortunately, neither is the person who did this to him. There is NO WAY a man with an IQ of FORTY-SEVEN...4-7...should be locked up for 100 years over this.
If I were the prosecutors, I would not be able to sleep at night. I do not see how they think that this was the WRONG thing to do in these circumstances.
I take issue with the use of pedophile to describe this defendant. His body may have matured to adulthood (with adult hormones and urges), but his intellectual peer group remains on par with the six-year-old. And it will stay there.
In this case, although there is a victim, there is no perpetrator. This poor man had no malice, no urge to harm, and no awareness whatsoever of the wrongfulness of his actions. Period. I feel that he deserves no criminal punishment whatsoever.
But he clearly needs to be kept from doing this again. Hey society - any idea what to do about this class of defendant? 'Cuz I have no idea. But this ain't it.
@JesterPrynne: I like that - a victim, but no perpetrator.
I'm sure there are homes and stuff for this kind of person. But it said his family was very poor - they probably couldn't afford a nice facility. I'm sure that if they let him off with probation, his family would have spent every day for the rest of their lives watching him like a hawk.
God, this story is horrible. The way we handle the intersection between mental health and criminal behavior in the US is very, very troubling, and this is just one particularly horrific example of many.
@sheleftyouasong: It's the medical term for someone whose IQ is under 75. It grosses us out because of its common colloquial usage, but it's still a proper diagnostic label.
as much as it is a medical term the reality is that it has become socially unacceptable. retaining the name of a facility with that term seems in poor taste, given the unfortunate definition it has taken on.
maybe it's because i have disabled family members or maybe it's because i'm canadian and there's a certain culture up here for tip toeing around things with the goal of being politically correct, but i don't know anyone who believes it's acceptable.
@sheleftyouasong: Well, we certainly wouldn't call someone with a mental handicap a "retard"...perhaps that is where the line become blurry for you? We're just as concerned with political correctness in the medical field here in the states, but the fact is that the negative connotations you associate with the word are separate from the actual medical use of the term.
@LolaQuinn: i was not confusing the naming of a facility with calling someone with a disability a "retard" and there is no blur.
the name of a facility and the terminology used within do not need to match. to many people retaining that name may be seen as offensive, that's all. perhaps to those in the field it is not, but i know others feel it's mildly inappropriate at best.
@karmasutra (can haz bigger star than youz?): There is a huge bias against the mentally ill and the incompetent in court. The justice system has difficulty acceding jurisdiction over those it should have no jurisdiction over at all. They drug the mentally ill so they will be mentally competent to stand trial regardless that they were incompetent when commtting the crime. Or the fact that the Seventh Amendment requires a defendant be capable of assisting in his own defense - while apparantly everyone could tell this defendant could not help himself much less his attorney.
@karmasutra (can haz bigger star than youz?): Oh absolutely. I'm willing to bet people just do not have a good notion of what a mental disability is (or mental illness, for that matter). Talk to 10 people and I bet the majority still think being mentally ill or cognitively disabled means you're more prone to violence or perversion.
@Penny: His confession came before he had counsel. He confessed immediately to the police officers. Of course, a truly competent counsel could probably have succesfully argued that he did not understand his Miranda rights and therefore get the confession waved. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to win an appeal on imcompetent counsel...cases where the counsel slept through portions of the trial have lost appeal.
@Penny: I doubt it. Also, the article said the judge could have chosen to run the sentences concurrently, so he would have only gotten 30 years. The judge CHOSE to stack them, so he got 100. Incomprehensible.
Please don't start in with 'fuck you Texas' and 'this is why everyone hates Texas'. This has nothing to do with the state and everything to do with horrible prosecutors. And the fact that people are talking about this in the newspapers and maybe even on local news (don't watch my local news so I don't know) shows progress.
And oh my god we need to make a state law saying that those who are mentally unstable/challenged CANNOT have a moron PDA right out of law school but one of the more seasoned and experienced lawyers.
@Penny: Every time a post comes up about something bad happening in Texas, there are more than a few extremely rude comments. My personal favourite was 'Fuck you, Texas, go back to Mexico', on a story that was actually later proved to be fake.
@apocalypse-nowish: I won't say "fuck you Texas" but I will say "fuck you Bush". While he was governor of Texas, Bush set the precedent for how the mentally disabled were treated in the courts. How many were executed while he was serving?
@MarissaExplainsItAll: Good to know. I grew up with an uncle with Down's, and we were brought up to absolutely loathe and avoid the phrase "mentally retarded" and encourage others to do the same.
@Penny: My sister used to work for a disabilities advocate firm and has her one of her degrees in that area. She say's you are supposed to put the person before the disability so if someone is mentally retarded you should say a person with mental retardation. But honestly I think that's just kind of a PC thing. It's not like they called him a retard.
@morninggloria: Ugh, I live in Alabama and even here, they've changed the mental health department name (which used to be Alabama Dept. of Mental Health and Mental Retardation) to get rid of the "mental retardation" designation.
I thought the accepted reference was now "cognitive disability" or "mental disability."
@morninggloria: Funnily enough, the term 'mentally retarded' was originally introduced as a humane and unprejudiced alternative to the term 'moron' which was actually the technical term used to describe people of low intellectual capacity. It seems like no matter what term is used, it acquires negative connotations.
@librariesare4lovers: Exactly, this is what I was thinking. I mean, I don't work in that field so I don't run around saying "mentally retarded" in conversations.
@wtfox?! is two weeks from everywhere: Dude is totally showboating for when he's up for re-election, so his ad on TV can say that he is "tough on sex offenders.'
@morninggloria: Yeah, people use it as an insult when in reality it's a classification that helps to establish mental development. @Penny: They are considering changing it due to how it has been appropriated, but it's not a guarentee. Personally, I don't think it should be changed since it would be an expensive overhaul (more than mental retardation-psychomotor retardation, retardation in response, etc).
@thegogglesdonothing: I remember this coming up in another post awhile ago. And, I agree, no matter what is used, it will be appropriated and the meanings muddled. I mean, how often do we say "idiot" and "moron"?
@morninggloria: They still use that classification in many states, including Massachusetts (my mom teaches many kids that are multi-impaired and has to deal with the Mass. Department of Mental Retardation on many instances). I'm not a particularly PC person, and because it is used in this way, I don't get particularly huffy at the use of the word retarded.
An IQ of 47. He definitely had no idea what he was doing. I know that the juror's probably saw that little girl and were reactionary, but this should have been thrown out by the judge. What he needs is supervision in a mental facility, not prison.
@cafezinha and frankie22: idk, I think that convicted pedophiles (key word) do get relatively harsh sentences, at least in my experience. although, yes, 100 yrs seems way beyond average.
@bluebears: But "pedophile" doesn't seem to describe Alex... he didn't seek out this boy because he's sexually attracted to children. You know? I don't know. So confusing and sad.
How many times do we see stories about sex offenders getting little or no jail time (perhaps probation) for their offenses, while this man gets 100 years for a crime he probably didn't fully understand was wrong?
Of course I wouldn't want him to get nothing--regardless of intent, the molestation will affect the little boy--but this seems an exorbitant price for Alex to pay.
Definitely a lose-lose all around.
Part of me thinks maybe the homosexual aspect of it influences, however indirectly, the severity of the sentence. Is that just my hyper-sensitive LGBT rights radar flipping out on me?
@Cafezinha: Sex offenders may get no time, but they are released to the state mental health system, where they are treated and separated from children, triggers, etc. They don't re join population until they are ready and even then there is massive oversight. Like ankle bracelets that beep near schools and twice daily checks and continued treatment.
The offenders in prison are the one's that are basically released subjected to parole and tend to molest again. Prison is a bad, bad thing for sex offenders on multiple levels. But it's hard for people not to understand that no prison doesn't equal being back on the streets.
This guy? Is going to win on appeal. Because I have no clue why he was competent to stand trial. Seriously.
@Cafezinha: I think people react more strongly to boys being molested than girls. With girls it's just another statistic, with boys it's going against the natural order of things. They're making that nice boy into a fag.
@Cafezinha: Considering how hard it is to convince a jury to convict perfectly mentally able older men of forceful rapes against young girls, I think there is definitely an element of homophobia going on here.
An FBI agent told me that there is a higher level of recidivism for male pedophiles who commit crimes against young boys vs. young girls (I don't remember about the ones who molest both). I think that's a very interesting and strange thing and it's hard to read too much into.
But I bet in any of our rape/sex assault cases, if you had a male victim instead of a female victim, people would be more likely to convict. I've heard people say things like, "it's worse if a man gets raped by a man" and "it's worse if a lesbian gets raped by a man." So it seems like a combination of homophobia and "she must have been asking for it."
@bluebears: And it makes me feel so helpless, too. What can I do? I'm not a lawyer. I don't even know anyone who lives in Texas.
Poor Alex. The best (also worst) part is at the end, when the dad says he really doesn't understand what's happened - whenever they visit him in prison, he talks about when he's coming home, etc etc. I mean, it's good that he doesn't realize how horribly he's been treated, but I think *not even realizing where you are and why* is a sign you don't have the cognitive abilities of an adult.
07/09/09
Mentally retarded or not, the guy obviously needs to be locked up somewhere and kept away from little kids. Clearly the support system he has now failed catastrophically.
07/09/09
I'm just not that up in arms about this particular case.
07/08/09
Unfortunately, neither is the person who did this to him. There is NO WAY a man with an IQ of FORTY-SEVEN...4-7...should be locked up for 100 years over this.
If I were the prosecutors, I would not be able to sleep at night. I do not see how they think that this was the WRONG thing to do in these circumstances.
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\sarcasm
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In this case, although there is a victim, there is no perpetrator. This poor man had no malice, no urge to harm, and no awareness whatsoever of the wrongfulness of his actions. Period. I feel that he deserves no criminal punishment whatsoever.
But he clearly needs to be kept from doing this again. Hey society - any idea what to do about this class of defendant? 'Cuz I have no idea. But this ain't it.
07/09/09
I'm sure there are homes and stuff for this kind of person. But it said his family was very poor - they probably couldn't afford a nice facility. I'm sure that if they let him off with probation, his family would have spent every day for the rest of their lives watching him like a hawk.
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I actually am surprised to hear that people think it is impolite.
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maybe@LolaQuinn: @sumerfish:
as much as it is a medical term the reality is that it has become socially unacceptable. retaining the name of a facility with that term seems in poor taste, given the unfortunate definition it has taken on.
maybe it's because i have disabled family members or maybe it's because i'm canadian and there's a certain culture up here for tip toeing around things with the goal of being politically correct, but i don't know anyone who believes it's acceptable.
07/09/09
Wikipedia covers the use of the term: [en.wikipedia.org]
07/10/09
the name of a facility and the terminology used within do not need to match. to many people retaining that name may be seen as offensive, that's all. perhaps to those in the field it is not, but i know others feel it's mildly inappropriate at best.
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Yeah- there is a huge bias.
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Does 5 counts usually amount to 100 years?
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And oh my god we need to make a state law saying that those who are mentally unstable/challenged CANNOT have a moron PDA right out of law school but one of the more seasoned and experienced lawyers.
07/08/09
Florida, on the other hand...
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Oh, c'mon, I HAD to!
07/08/09
Fuck you California, go sink into the Pacific.
Fuck you Louisiana Purchase, go back to France.
Fuck you NEW York, go back to York.
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The Shrub's legacy lives on.
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And this was in the 80's.
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I thought the accepted reference was now "cognitive disability" or "mental disability."
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@Penny: They are considering changing it due to how it has been appropriated, but it's not a guarentee. Personally, I don't think it should be changed since it would be an expensive overhaul (more than mental retardation-psychomotor retardation, retardation in response, etc).
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It is a clinical term still used in my psychology textbook.
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Of course I wouldn't want him to get nothing--regardless of intent, the molestation will affect the little boy--but this seems an exorbitant price for Alex to pay.
Definitely a lose-lose all around.
Part of me thinks maybe the homosexual aspect of it influences, however indirectly, the severity of the sentence. Is that just my hyper-sensitive LGBT rights radar flipping out on me?
07/08/09
The offenders in prison are the one's that are basically released subjected to parole and tend to molest again. Prison is a bad, bad thing for sex offenders on multiple levels. But it's hard for people not to understand that no prison doesn't equal being back on the streets.
This guy? Is going to win on appeal. Because I have no clue why he was competent to stand trial. Seriously.
07/08/09
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07/08/09
An FBI agent told me that there is a higher level of recidivism for male pedophiles who commit crimes against young boys vs. young girls (I don't remember about the ones who molest both). I think that's a very interesting and strange thing and it's hard to read too much into.
But I bet in any of our rape/sex assault cases, if you had a male victim instead of a female victim, people would be more likely to convict. I've heard people say things like, "it's worse if a man gets raped by a man" and "it's worse if a lesbian gets raped by a man." So it seems like a combination of homophobia and "she must have been asking for it."
07/08/09
07/09/09
Poor Alex. The best (also worst) part is at the end, when the dad says he really doesn't understand what's happened - whenever they visit him in prison, he talks about when he's coming home, etc etc. I mean, it's good that he doesn't realize how horribly he's been treated, but I think *not even realizing where you are and why* is a sign you don't have the cognitive abilities of an adult.