@lisas: I don't get hoverers. Just put some frackin' paper down like everyone else and get on with your bizness.
The worst is the splatterers--YOU KNOW who you are. You are the reason that none of us can sit down, because you get more piss on and around the seat than my eight year old nephew. Here's a rhyme for you:
"If you sprinkle
when you tinkle,
Please be neat
and wipe the seat."
I would like to graffiti that on every public restroom in the United States (and Canada, just for you lisas).
I still think that it is whatevs. You won't die from it, it doesn't make you crazy, and you aren't going to become sterile if it isn't treated. All in all, it isn't that big of a deal.
@badmutha: Isn't it pretty painful when it flares up, though? My aunt had a friend over that had her first herpes flare up and I remember her having to pee in the bathtub (in some water) because the pain was so intense.
@badmutha: Outbreaks can be very painful though, and some people have recurring outbreaks, which seriously affects their quality of life. My roommate had them over and over and it was pretty fucking awful.
@BeckySharper: Yes, it can be really bad, and my understanding is that this is especially true for people who have compromised immune systems for one reason or another.
I kind of agree with badmutha, though. The majority of people who have it don't suffer like your roommate did, and while I definitely think we need to work hard to prevent the spread of it so those who would be severely affected don't have to suffer, the degree of stigma, shame, and trauma associated with having it at all is excessive given the actual health effects for most people.
@badmutha: I won't lie, it's awful at first. Not only is it physically uncomfortable, but emotionally tough knowing there's a problem you could be dealing with for the rest of your life.
The good thing is that over the years, the frequency of outbreaks can decrease -- to the point where you even forget you have it. But I would never deny how traumatic it can be in the early stages, especially for someone who is not in a long-term monogamous relationship and has to explain the condition to every potential partner. That part sucks.
@badmutha: Yeah, that doesn't mean I want to have a lifelong disease (because that's what it is, it's a virus that never goes away). This line of thinking is probably one of the reasons that herpes is so widespread. People think "oh, this is no big deal. I won't tell my partner or anyone else that I have it!" Then that person has sex with their unfortunate and clueless partner. They break up, part ways, and continue to spread the virus. I know I'm being sensationalistic but that's probably how it happens sometimes.
@badmutha:
I don't understand with all these mini crotch critters breeding like crazy people still won't wrap their junk up during sex. It takes less than a min to avoid a lifetime of uck.
Sorry but I don't feel like playing a lifelong game of zoo tycoon on my cunt.
@Atomic Bowling: I agree that all the shame and stigma is just bullshit. I feel that way about all STDs--it's just a disease you happen to get in your genitals, and it shouldn't be treated as any worse than a disease you get in your lungs or whatever.
And yes, for a lot of people herpes is a relatively minor infection. But for some people it's brutal, so I absolutely hate it when I see people taking the attititude "oh, it's just whatevs for me, so I don't have to use condoms or tell anyone." Because while it might not affect YOU too badly, you might infect someone for whom it IS a serious health problem (or they might unknowingly pass it on, etc).
@LilSpitfire: I agree that it's important for people to practice safe sex. And I suppose that based on what you've written, you are committed to only having sex (oral, genital, anal) with a condom. For most couples, once they have been together long enough to believe that they love each other, will be monogamous with each other, etc. the condom usually comes off, at least some of the time. I'm not advocating no protection, I'm just saying that it's not realistic. I was infected by my ex-husband. He was told by his doctor that he was not contagious between outbreaks. I didn't know I had it until I had an outbreak a few years ago and testing showed that I had carried the virus for years with no symptoms. Your language:
"lifetime of uck" and "zoo tycoon on my cunt" reflects the stigma attached to herpes, genitals, and sex. In my experience I have found the stigma far more devastating than the physical discomfort of an outbreak.
One thing I hated about HS sex ed. was the prevalent deterrent for having unprotected sex was the shame associated with having an STD. Instilling this attitude in people is what causes these diseases to be spread so widely.
I've known a lot of friends who have either been too scared or ashamed to tell a doctor about their symptoms, lest they be judged as "dirty" or "slutty." One of the girls just basically ignored her first flare-up and was so in denial that she didn't go to her Dr. and gave Herpes to her longtime boyfriend.
It doesn't have to be that way. There is a happy medium between shaming and scaring everyone into celibacy and being totally blithe about the disease. In fact, the people who are so judgy about it are the ones who cause the blitheness in others, because if it weren't for the stigma, people wouldn't be ashamed to be open about having the disease.
@BuffyPhD:
I think it's simply a respect thing. You disclose potential health risks to partners. Because these health risks can affect you finincially, mentally, and physically.
I disclose to people I'm dating I am bipolar. I give them the option, with knowledge on whether they want to continue a relationship with me knowing I have that illness, and everything it entails. You can't pass on BP...but you can pass on STDs. Why can't people with STDs show the same respect?
It's this undertone of secrecy on these health issues between partners that really freaks me out. It's this idea that marriage somehow makes you immune to disease. It doesn't. I read awhile ago that women are more likely to get AIDS from their husbands than any other way.
I will fully disclose I'm a hardcore germaphobe though so any talk of this makes my skin crawl.
@Evie Havok: it is not uncommon that we contract most of our "lifelong" diseases when we are kids - take a look at the HPV virus alone - it affects children in HUGE numbers with warts on face/hands/feet and recurs often in adulthood.
Also, the same thing happens with HSV-1 because kids are always putting things in their mouths and sharing those things with eachother.
there are also several other viruses which infect us early in life (my scientist boyfriend would know the actual names) but because they don't cause a lot of physiological "hullaballoo", are never really addressed.
I have genital herpes, for nearly 6 years now, and i've only had two outbreaks (visible) so I consider it highly manageable and not disruptive of my life.
That said, I do feel for those who have them frequently and have ones which are painful, I think I would be a lot more angry if that were the case with me - but, again, herpes is manageable with proper diet, supplementation and stress reduction practices. I think too many are too reliant on drugs like Famvir, Valtrex and Zovrax.
Living with it requires a lifestyle change to be more healthy and people are often not prepared to do that.
@BuffyPhD: and as we all know, herpes can remain "dormant" in that it doesn't reveal itself in an actual OUTBREAK for 5, 10, 15 even 20 years.
This means that one could contract it in one's early 20's, be unawares because they never took STD tests and then be giving it to partners when the "condoms come off" monogamy begins.
ALWAYS GET TESTED WHEN STARTING A NEW RELATIONSHIP.
It is the only true way to know what you have rather than wait for the disease to reveal itself.
@LilSpitfire: Now that I know I have herpes, I DO tell partners I have it before we have sex. However, people can't do anything about an infection that they know nothing about. Herpes anti-virus is not routinely tested for when doctors do a screening for STIs. [I'll make a clarification here: Herpes is an infection with symptoms, not a disease which progresses when untreated like gonnorhea, syphilus, chlamidya, or HIV-AIDS]. The vast majority of people who carry the herpes virus (I or II) don't know they have it. So, being honest is important, using condoms helps and more information about how infections are transmitted can be helpful. What is not helpful is perpetuating the stigma attatched to any infection or disease as this is what silences people from 1) seeking help or treatment and 2) letting others know about their condition so that they can make informed choices for themselves about intimacy and relationships. #tips
@Scout: HOWEVER, Herpes really isn't that way. You can get the type that causes cold sores on your genitals, and most people already have that virus in their systems all their lives.
@BuffyPhD: I should apologize for my initial description of it.
I separate the disease from the person.
But that doesn't stop the disease from grossing me out, the same way the flem I was coughing up last week from my cold grossed me out.
The same why hummus, paracute pants, and sand in my bathing suit makes me go yuk. But do I think people who wear paracute pants are bad people? No.
Well maybe if they are metallic.
I just think this lackadaisy attitude towards safe sex is worrying to me. I'm 26. I can't remember a time growing up that people DIDN'T think using a condom was a good idea. Maybe growing up in the 90s when the AIDS scare was still fresh in our memories was different than now.
But I'm seeing this more and more in attitudes towards sex practices.
Whoever said getting fully tested before you start each relationship is a great idea and one I practice.
@danielly37: I was only speaking to genital herpes, should have made that clear. Though it interesting you posted what you did considering I contracted GENITAL herpes from a boyfriend with ORAL herpes.
@Scout: well, not I've been informed (thanks!) by several that STD tests generally DO NOT TEST for HSV-1 (nor possibly HSV-2) because most of the population has the first and the second is not "life threatening"
so where does that leave us with STD testing? does one need to specifically request an HSV test or ???
@GirlFailer: It can be, but that is uncommon. HSV2 is generally more painful than 1, but not usually as bad as you describe. HSV1, in my own experience, is not really much more physically painful than a bad zit. Psychological and emotional stuff is another story.
I'm not saying people shouldn't be careful, but we're talking about something little kids get from playing recorders at school and sharing water bottles. I'm not sure how much one can do to protect oneself from it completely, and I'm not sure it's worth a lot of angst about it.
Edit: reading farther down the thread, I realize that people were focusing mostly on those who already know they're infected and don't take precautions. I agree that that's definitely not cool, for the reasons mentioned below. I was thinking more about someone who wasn't infected, and how much time/mental energy they should expend worrying about it.
@Scout: I've read that most of the genital herpes infections these days are from type 1 (oral/cold sores) when back in the day they'd were mostly type #2 (the OG of genital herpes, as I like to think of it) due to the increasing prevalence of oral sex. I think a lot of people know they get cold sores, but are unaware that if they DO get cold sores, there's really no such thing as safe oral sex.
Never sleeps, can't be killed using conventional means, lives forever and keeps coming back and never leaves you alone.... herpes and Edward Cullen have a lot more in common than I initially thought.
@Flackette Goes Retro: That was my first thought when I read this, too. Because that certainly seemed to be the official Jezebel response..."so whatevs" and "I can have herpes and unprotected sex and you bitches better not judge me!"
@BeckySharper: Seems heavily, hilariously simplified. I think the average Jezebel stance is a much more informed 'this is a common ailment and don't let people sex-shame you into thinking having it makes you some sort of horrible slut'.
Much more nuanced than 'So Whatevs'.
And where's this pro-unprotected sex stance you claim? I'm truly curious what you're talking about.
@Evie Havok: *laughs* Okay, so there IS a "So Whatevs"! Good point!
However, I hold by my point, which I think the herpes article by Tracie makes itself.
And on the Moe post, I'm seeing this as one woman's satirical post on having unprotected sex, herself, with dorks. (heh.) Every article/bit about sex is not a statement by Jezebel as a whole on what it thinks about it and how it believes it's readers should think. Moe seemed to love sex-shocking, and obviously successfully.
There was a survey that doesn't show now for some reason, but I believe it was close to half or more readers thought it was ok not to disclose to their partner the fact that they have STDs. Disturbing to say the least.
@NoelleBlue: i don't get what's there to disagree with as i haven't pu..t forth an argument. you asked to see "the whatevz" post and i replied with said post.
in said post, tracie thought her decision to not tell her bf at the time about her condition was ok. many people who took the survey she put forth agreed. i disagree with that theory.
just because one is afraid of being slut-shamed by a partner does not give them the right to withhold such information.
@bess marvin, girl detective: I have said I think the disease itself is kind of "whatevs," but I believe it is ethically wrong not to inform a sexual partner of risk if you know you have a disease.
It is literally shocking to me how little we know about viruses such as herpes. Originally, doctors said that Herpes I couldn't be transmitted as Herpes II, or couldn't be transmitted when it is dormant. There is so much misinformation out there about it.
I've heard so many kids online say they don't use condoms in a monogamous relationship (teenagers, high school, how long can that relationship be?) and you can't get anything serious if its just lesbians. It's like it's the 80s and no one important has died of AIDS yet and the quilt hasn't toured the country and we didn't all wear the little red ribbons. I feel ike 20 years of history was for nothing.
We all said we'd teach the younger generation to play safe and this terrible disease would be stomped out, but we really just taught each other. Now these fucking kids think we're just uptight old people who won't let them have any latex-free "fun." Every single one of you shits should have to play your video games with a avatar covered in pustulating herpes boils!!! #chlamydia
I really, really think that condom use has everything to do with healthy relationships in general. The only man who has ever tried to dissuade me from using condoms was also a bully in general. The men with whom I have had open, respectful relationships have been totally fine with condom use, and have made sure to have a supply on hand when the relationship got serious. Similarly, the only time I had sex without condoms against my better judgment was because I was young and didn't know how to stand up for myself on the matter. I was swayed by a boyfriend who claimed that using condoms meant I "didn't trust him", even though he admitted he hadn't been tested recently. Now, at the doddering old age of 30, my boyfriend and I actually, y'know, communicate about these things. We used condoms at first, shared testing results, and now don't use them except when my birth control may have been compromised. It's all about general respect for each other, and comfort in talking about sex and contraception. I'm afraid the young people who skip condom use do so because they don't know HOW to talk about the issue. #chlamydia
I've had some pretty serious depression and other mental health issues in my life, and a lot of it has manifested in desperately wanting a guy to pay attention to me. This has resulted in a couple of 6-month long benders involving lots of unprotected sex with near-strangers. With all of them, I asked them to wear a condom, and they did the first time, but convinced me not to the second time and beyond. I was in a bad state, and I let myself be taken advantage of, even though I knew better. It's been years since these incidents, and I did get HPV, but luckily nothing worse, but I still get so scared that I have something that hasn't manifested itself. I don't know what kind of education would have helped me assert myself in those situations. I was seeing a psychiatrist and a therapist at the time. I think the guys themselves maybe needed some education to teach them that (a) they can get STDs from girls, and (b) they shouldn't take advantage of girls like that. When I've been in relationships with guys who respected me, they've never had a problem wearing condoms. Only the ones who treated all women generally like sub-humans refused. #chlamydia
I had decent but forgettable sex ed in junior high and high school, but probably the most informative sex ed I got was through my church youth group. Of course, I went to a liberal Northeast church.
I also agree that actually using condoms is less about sex-ed, and more about feeling comfortable enough to stand up for yourself and having access to condoms and other forms of birth control when needed. #chlamydia
@Grim Reaper of the Forest: True that, any man who doesn't put on a condom and HAVE condoms when sexing you hasn't thought enough about your or your safety to gain entree into the holiest of holies. #chlamydia
People need a healthy dose of fear instilled in them against HIV/AIDS and other STDs. Don't people realize that things like HIV/AIDs are lifelong, painful and come with debilitating symptoms? Isn't it just common sense that if you don't use a condom you might just get something from the other person? Even if abstinence-only sex education wasn't taught there would still be some assholes out there who wouldn't use condoms. They woud still use the same excuses : "I don't like the feeling!" ; "I'm clean"; "Don't you trust me?" ; etc, etc. I know I'm not the only who has noticed a whole lot of people not taking AIDS/HIV and the other STDs seriously. I'm including so-called informed and educated people in here, too. There's so many of them who don't use condoms even though they know the risks of unprotected sex. #chlamydia
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
The worst is the splatterers--YOU KNOW who you are. You are the reason that none of us can sit down, because you get more piss on and around the seat than my eight year old nephew. Here's a rhyme for you:
"If you sprinkle
when you tinkle,
Please be neat
and wipe the seat."
I would like to graffiti that on every public restroom in the United States (and Canada, just for you lisas).
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
I kind of agree with badmutha, though. The majority of people who have it don't suffer like your roommate did, and while I definitely think we need to work hard to prevent the spread of it so those who would be severely affected don't have to suffer, the degree of stigma, shame, and trauma associated with having it at all is excessive given the actual health effects for most people.
11/19/09
The good thing is that over the years, the frequency of outbreaks can decrease -- to the point where you even forget you have it. But I would never deny how traumatic it can be in the early stages, especially for someone who is not in a long-term monogamous relationship and has to explain the condition to every potential partner. That part sucks.
11/19/09
11/19/09
I don't understand with all these mini crotch critters breeding like crazy people still won't wrap their junk up during sex. It takes less than a min to avoid a lifetime of uck.
Sorry but I don't feel like playing a lifelong game of zoo tycoon on my cunt.
11/19/09
#tips
11/19/09
And yes, for a lot of people herpes is a relatively minor infection. But for some people it's brutal, so I absolutely hate it when I see people taking the attititude "oh, it's just whatevs for me, so I don't have to use condoms or tell anyone." Because while it might not affect YOU too badly, you might infect someone for whom it IS a serious health problem (or they might unknowingly pass it on, etc).
11/19/09
"lifetime of uck" and "zoo tycoon on my cunt" reflects the stigma attached to herpes, genitals, and sex. In my experience I have found the stigma far more devastating than the physical discomfort of an outbreak.
11/19/09
One thing I hated about HS sex ed. was the prevalent deterrent for having unprotected sex was the shame associated with having an STD. Instilling this attitude in people is what causes these diseases to be spread so widely.
I've known a lot of friends who have either been too scared or ashamed to tell a doctor about their symptoms, lest they be judged as "dirty" or "slutty." One of the girls just basically ignored her first flare-up and was so in denial that she didn't go to her Dr. and gave Herpes to her longtime boyfriend.
It doesn't have to be that way. There is a happy medium between shaming and scaring everyone into celibacy and being totally blithe about the disease. In fact, the people who are so judgy about it are the ones who cause the blitheness in others, because if it weren't for the stigma, people wouldn't be ashamed to be open about having the disease.
11/19/09
I think it's simply a respect thing. You disclose potential health risks to partners. Because these health risks can affect you finincially, mentally, and physically.
I disclose to people I'm dating I am bipolar. I give them the option, with knowledge on whether they want to continue a relationship with me knowing I have that illness, and everything it entails. You can't pass on BP...but you can pass on STDs. Why can't people with STDs show the same respect?
It's this undertone of secrecy on these health issues between partners that really freaks me out. It's this idea that marriage somehow makes you immune to disease. It doesn't. I read awhile ago that women are more likely to get AIDS from their husbands than any other way.
I will fully disclose I'm a hardcore germaphobe though so any talk of this makes my skin crawl.
11/19/09
Also, the same thing happens with HSV-1 because kids are always putting things in their mouths and sharing those things with eachother.
there are also several other viruses which infect us early in life (my scientist boyfriend would know the actual names) but because they don't cause a lot of physiological "hullaballoo", are never really addressed.
I have genital herpes, for nearly 6 years now, and i've only had two outbreaks (visible) so I consider it highly manageable and not disruptive of my life.
That said, I do feel for those who have them frequently and have ones which are painful, I think I would be a lot more angry if that were the case with me - but, again, herpes is manageable with proper diet, supplementation and stress reduction practices. I think too many are too reliant on drugs like Famvir, Valtrex and Zovrax.
Living with it requires a lifestyle change to be more healthy and people are often not prepared to do that.
*steps off soapbox - sorry *
11/19/09
This means that one could contract it in one's early 20's, be unawares because they never took STD tests and then be giving it to partners when the "condoms come off" monogamy begins.
ALWAYS GET TESTED WHEN STARTING A NEW RELATIONSHIP.
It is the only true way to know what you have rather than wait for the disease to reveal itself.
11/19/09
#tips
11/19/09
11/19/09
I separate the disease from the person.
But that doesn't stop the disease from grossing me out, the same way the flem I was coughing up last week from my cold grossed me out.
The same why hummus, paracute pants, and sand in my bathing suit makes me go yuk. But do I think people who wear paracute pants are bad people? No.
Well maybe if they are metallic.
I just think this lackadaisy attitude towards safe sex is worrying to me. I'm 26. I can't remember a time growing up that people DIDN'T think using a condom was a good idea. Maybe growing up in the 90s when the AIDS scare was still fresh in our memories was different than now.
But I'm seeing this more and more in attitudes towards sex practices.
Whoever said getting fully tested before you start each relationship is a great idea and one I practice.
#tips
11/19/09
sucks
#tips
11/19/09
so where does that leave us with STD testing? does one need to specifically request an HSV test or ???
#tips
11/20/09
I'm not saying people shouldn't be careful, but we're talking about something little kids get from playing recorders at school and sharing water bottles. I'm not sure how much one can do to protect oneself from it completely, and I'm not sure it's worth a lot of angst about it.
Edit: reading farther down the thread, I realize that people were focusing mostly on those who already know they're infected and don't take precautions. I agree that that's definitely not cool, for the reasons mentioned below. I was thinking more about someone who wasn't infected, and how much time/mental energy they should expend worrying about it.
11/20/09
#tips
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
But that screengrab did just give me my first belly laugh of the day, so good karma for you.
"using Clitter may result in Sparklebabies"
aaand the laughter begins again.
11/19/09
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11/19/09
Much more nuanced than 'So Whatevs'.
And where's this pro-unprotected sex stance you claim? I'm truly curious what you're talking about.
11/19/09
[jezebel.com]
[jezebel.com]
11/19/09
However, I hold by my point, which I think the herpes article by Tracie makes itself.
And on the Moe post, I'm seeing this as one woman's satirical post on having unprotected sex, herself, with dorks. (heh.) Every article/bit about sex is not a statement by Jezebel as a whole on what it thinks about it and how it believes it's readers should think. Moe seemed to love sex-shocking, and obviously successfully.
11/19/09
There was a survey that doesn't show now for some reason, but I believe it was close to half or more readers thought it was ok not to disclose to their partner the fact that they have STDs. Disturbing to say the least.
11/19/09
I can't quite say "we have to agree to disagree", because I don't "disagree", per se.
But reading the comments to your listed article, all the debate about the issue is right there.
So maybe "We probably disagree on these points, even if just in nuanced ways" is best?
11/19/09
in said post, tracie thought her decision to not tell her bf at the time about her condition was ok. many people who took the survey she put forth agreed. i disagree with that theory.
just because one is afraid of being slut-shamed by a partner does not give them the right to withhold such information.
11/19/09
11/19/09
No no, and I see that, and I don't actually disagree with that, per se, I just think it's a longer discussion.
But! That discussion, judging by the comments on the post, has been had many times!
11/19/09
Hot damn that sounds horrible. If I ever go back on the market, I'll be on Team Abstinence until Trojan develops a sex HAZMAT suit.
11/19/09
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11/19/09
Alternatively, Chuck's a mom and pop; herpes is a cooperation. Herpes is a press conference; Chuck's a conversation.
11/19/09
11/19/09
That and the fact that nobody wants to talk about it.
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11/16/09
We all said we'd teach the younger generation to play safe and this terrible disease would be stomped out, but we really just taught each other. Now these fucking kids think we're just uptight old people who won't let them have any latex-free "fun." Every single one of you shits should have to play your video games with a avatar covered in pustulating herpes boils!!! #chlamydia
11/16/09
11/16/09
having genital herpes. #chlamydia
11/16/09
11/16/09
I also agree that actually using condoms is less about sex-ed, and more about feeling comfortable enough to stand up for yourself and having access to condoms and other forms of birth control when needed. #chlamydia
11/16/09
11/16/09