I have sexsomnia. I might masturbate furiously, or I might grope or go down on my bed partner. It's only happened with lovers, usually after we have sex and fall asleep, but it makes me uneasy about whom I share a bed or room with, for sure.
I had a boyfriend once who had the same thing. We frequently woke up in the midst of wild, rapturous sex. I kind of miss that.
An ex of mine did this once. I would have been down for it except he lived in a dorm at the time and his roomate was about 2 feet away, so I was stuck trying to wake him up without waking up the roomate. It was way awkward #sexsomnia
@dreamypisces: Well I don't think that would have happened. It was something about having a person in the bed that triggered it. Which makes sense- spooning-arousal-sex, but just without waking up in between #sexsomnia
I can see women being really, really taken advantage of (and let's be blunt, raped) if they have sexsomnia -- and then having a really hard time successfully prosecuting their rapist. #sexsomnia
@thesciencegirl: Honestly, if the woman initiates and the man is unaware of her condition, I don't think the act can be considered rape. And if she's aware of her condition, she's assuming the risk by sleeping in the same bed as some one. The line has to be drawn somewhere to protect innocent people from being incarcerated. #sexsomnia
@thesciencegirl: according to the Wiki the first widely reported case of this the opposite happened where the person with sexsomnia was accused, and acquitted, of assault. I guess it could go either way, from what I'm reading here the person with the disorder is the one initiating the act and can appear to be at least somewhat alert.
So on the one hand you have a person with a disorder that causes them to initiate sexual activity beyond their awareness or ability to control (unless diagnosed and treated) and then you have the person(s) they are having the sex with who may have no reason to think the person initiating sex with them is unaware of their behavior. #sexsomnia
@tehcutie: What if she is unaware of her condition and her attacker is aware? What if her attacker was not invited into her bed? Also, ummm..... sleeping in the same bed as someone does not equal consent to have sex. I am a lot more concerned about potential victims than drawing an arbitrary line. #sexsomnia
@logruszed: Ok, after doing some reading, it looks like there have been a handful of high-profile cases of people with the disorder (which is apparently more common in men) being accused of assaulting or raping others, and having no idea they'd done it. That's... such an awful situation for everyone involved. #sexsomnia
@thesciencegirl: In cases of "normal" people sharing beds, sleeping in the same bed definitely does not constitute consent.
I'm concerned about someone being incarcerated for having what he (or she) thought was consensual sex, that's all. And honestly, if someone has this condition, they have to be a little bit more cautious (not that it would be their fault at all if they were raped, but whoever was sleeping with them at the time wouldn't necessarily be held guilty either). #sexsomnia
@colormeroutine: Did you watch the first clip? The woman's boyfriend frankly said to her, "you've been having sex in your sleep for a long time." Meanwhile, she had no idea. They may not know the name of the condition, but apparently, it can be obvious that the person is sleeping (just as it can be with sleepwalking). #sexsomnia
@tehcutie: I see your points. But go back and read my original comment. I am concerned about this condition making someone more vulnerable to rape. I didn't say that sleeping with a sexsomniac always constitutes rape or anything like that. #sexsomnia
@thesciencegirl: sex with a sleeping person is rape, just like sex with an incapacitatedly drunk person is rape. People engaged in parasomniac behaviors are not fully aware of what they are doing. It is impossible to consent in such a condition. #sexsomnia
@Faster.Pussycat: FYI, I read a medical journal article that showed it being more common in men. (though it has not been studied much at this point). #sexsomnia
@Faster.Pussycat: I can conceive of situations where either the sexsomniac's partner did not realize they were asleep (which, I guess, yeah, that's still rape, though not intentional) or the sexsomniac gave consent to their partner to engage in behaviors that they may initiate while asleep (and by consent, I mean an explicit conversation, not just sharing a bed with someone).
But generally speaking, I agree with you and that was my point. The need for consent doesn't magically go away just because someone has a sleep disorder, and frankly, I'm a bit horrified by some of the responses I've gotten here. #sexsomnia
@thesciencegirl: I think you guys are confusing "consent" and being the one to actually initiate the act. This disorder presumably causes the women or men to begin engaging in sex.
Rape is rape; I can't conceive of a hypothetical where a rapist could use their victim's sexsomnia disorder as an affirmative defense.
In the cases you've mentioned, thesciencegirl, I also don't think these men would be off the hook (although it depends on the particular state law) because insanity (or whatever mental disorder) generally cannot be used as a defense in this country. #sexsomnia
@thesciencegirl: I get that the need for consent does not go away, but it's just, what exactly are you supposed to do? People with this disorder can get pretty damn persistent, and can be very hard to wake up. #sexsomnia
@tehcutie: when people are awake and sober, sure, you can assume that the initiator consents. when people are asleep/drunk, just because they are initiating, doesn't mean they really want it. esp if they are asleep. they are not exercising bad or confused judgement, as a drunk person throwing hirself at somebody might be. judgement just doesn't exist. #sexsomnia
@colormeroutine: Yes, I grant that it can be a complicated situation all around. But watching that video, when the woman reported her boyfriend nonchalantly saying that she regularly initiated sex while sleeping and he had never told her, was I the only one totally squicked out by that?! #sexsomnia
@Faster.Pussycat: I get your point, but: Someone I dated occasionally did this. As I already said, people with this condition can be pretty damn persistent, and pretty hard to wake up. The first time it happened I didn't realize he was asleep at first, but DID object because his roommate was asleep about 5 feet away. I was trying to wrestle him off/figure out what the fuck was going on without making any noise, and then I realized he was asleep. I was eventually able to push him off and leave the room for a few minutes, and when I came back he was still asleep, totally normal, and it was all good. But let's say I hadn't been able to push him off or the roommate wasn't there and I didn't realize he was asleep....I'd be a rapist, then? #sexsomnia
@colormeroutine: If you hadn't been able to push him off, how does that make YOU a rapist? I feel like people are talking about different scenarios here and everyone is trying to conflate them. #sexsomnia
@thesciencegirl: That's my point. faster.pussycat is simultaneously saying that sex with a sleeping person is rape, full-stop, even if they initiate it, because judgement doesn't exist, but that a sleeping person can be a rapist. I was attempting to illustrate why that makes no sense #sexsomnia
@tehcutie: Drunk/high people initiate sex, but they can't legally consent. Underage people can initiate sex, but they can't legally consent. There are plenty of scenarios, including this one, where someone can initiate sex but can't actually consent to it. #sexsomnia
@Faster.Pussycat: I think that one cannot conflate this particular disease with being drunk or high. When someone is so drunk that they don't know what they're doing, it's obvious that they are drunk. So when someone has sex with a drunk person who's too drunk to consent, the non-drunk person is a rapist.
From what I understand of sleepwalking and other sleepwalking-like disorders, it's possible to not realize the person asleep is actually asleep. People sleepwalk with their eyes open. So if someone was asleep but you didn't realize it, and started to make sexy time moves, how could it be rape, legally?
I'm less concerned about actual cases in which rape under these circumstances are occcurring, and more concerned about this stuff getting used as an excuse for raping someone. This disorder is so rare that the larger danger (societally, obviously not on an individual level) is using it as a defense.
I've definitely started having sex while still asleep. I take medicine that makes me have very, very vivid dreams, and a few months ago I woke up in the middle of fooling around with my boyfriend. Actually I was about to have an orgasm and that was what woke me up. Actually it was fucking awesome. He didn't realize that I was asleep until after we were finished having sex (I woke up before there was any actual intercourse). He was like, "I was wondering why you suddenly went from being kind of quiet to suddenly being far more vocal." That woman's boyfriend is way creepier, though, because he knew she was asleep. If my boyfriend had known I was asleep he would have poked me in the cheek to wake me up and make sure everything was ok.
I wish it would happen more often though, because seriously waking up to an orgasm is delightful, especially for someone who usually has to concentrate really hard on to have one. #sexsomnia
@elliebean: Did it progress to now that she's an adult she can't leave her house because her hand is constantly drawn to her clit? I'm just confused. #sexsomnia
ps, i can't wait to find out how you can 'innoculate your daughter against [oral sex]." hopefully merck will come up with something.
and for the record, this woman he has in the first clip is a canadian documentary filmmaker/tabloid journalist. and the movie that she made to which she refers is about girls in CANADA. this fraud made the talkshow rounds a few months ago under the "oral sex is the new goodnight kiss" line and it was just as much bullshit then as it is now.
For all the people concerned that the girls aren't getting anything in return, I'll offer my own story.
When I was 15, my boyfriend was 17. He went down on my all the time, and I never returned the favor. I was scared to death of his penis! And he never made me feel guilty about it. I think he got a lot of pleasure from making me happy. And the one time we almost had sex, I said no after the condom was on and he was ready to go, and he didn't give me any attitude or hassle.
I wonder how he's doing now, and I bet his girlfriend or wife is a very satisfied. I was very grateful to have such a good guy be the one to introduce me to sexuality, and he certainly earned some good karma.
@portia_sue: That is awesome! More guys need to subscribe to that sort of maturity when in dating situations (hell, I'd love for men my age to be at that level). I cannot tell you the number of times I get caught up in some kissing and all of a sudden they try and pull a damned guilt trip on me because they got too horny. Nowadays, that's my sign to just end things ASAP and go the hell home, but when I was younger, I would actually bother arguing with them.
@wednesdayam: Yeah, I was really lucky with that one. He was also the first person I had ever kissed, and he taught me how very patiently. This sounds pervy, but I think he had a sense of..helping me bloom? That sounds weird. Like grooming, which it wasn't at all. He just knew that there was a difference in experience levels there, and respected me.
It's funny that you mention men our age, because what I miss most about being in high school, even once I had had sex, was the way that making out for hours was an acceptable thing. Now, it's like, "Oh, my dick is hard, let's do something about that! Right now." No. I would like to make out for hours again. I think it would make sex more exciting, too.
@portia_sue: I was like that with my high school girlfriend. I wasn't very much more experienced than her—she'd never kissed anyone and I'd kissed a little—but at the time it seemed like a massive gap. I knew I was gonna be her first everything and I worked really hard to make her comfortable, because I never wanted to be a bad memory. The first day that I got her relaxed enough to walk around the room naked, by pointing out that everyone looks silly with their clothes off, was a particular triumph.
If you are not still with her (probably not, since it seemed like you were speaking in the past tense) know that she probably remembers you with a lot of affection and gratitude for being so great.
You just made my day! It's so nice to hear from the good guys.
@portia_sue: I had a high school boyfriend like that. I was 14 and scared of the penis, so I never returned the favor. Of course he wanted sex, but I wasn't ready and he never made me feel bad, and he'd just go down on me for hours. I know 2 other girls who went out with him and they all said the same thing, "even if we were only hanging out for an hour, he'd still go down on me" and we all felt so lucky.
After barely seeing him for years we reconnected on his 18th birthday and I took his virginity. It just didn't seem right that a guy who'd done so much for the pleasure of girls never got much in return. But he was so big I almost cried, so I understand why we were all so scared of the penis.
11/05/09
My grandmother has just rolled over in her grave. #sexsomnia
11/05/09
I had a boyfriend once who had the same thing. We frequently woke up in the midst of wild, rapturous sex. I kind of miss that.
I didn't know what I had until I read this amazing article:
[www.nytimes.com] #sexsomnia
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So on the one hand you have a person with a disorder that causes them to initiate sexual activity beyond their awareness or ability to control (unless diagnosed and treated) and then you have the person(s) they are having the sex with who may have no reason to think the person initiating sex with them is unaware of their behavior. #sexsomnia
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I'm concerned about someone being incarcerated for having what he (or she) thought was consensual sex, that's all. And honestly, if someone has this condition, they have to be a little bit more cautious (not that it would be their fault at all if they were raped, but whoever was sleeping with them at the time wouldn't necessarily be held guilty either). #sexsomnia
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Forgive me for not using he/she in every comment I make on a website. #sexsomnia
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But generally speaking, I agree with you and that was my point. The need for consent doesn't magically go away just because someone has a sleep disorder, and frankly, I'm a bit horrified by some of the responses I've gotten here. #sexsomnia
11/05/09
Rape is rape; I can't conceive of a hypothetical where a rapist could use their victim's sexsomnia disorder as an affirmative defense.
In the cases you've mentioned, thesciencegirl, I also don't think these men would be off the hook (although it depends on the particular state law) because insanity (or whatever mental disorder) generally cannot be used as a defense in this country. #sexsomnia
11/05/09
Likewise for a sexsomniac.
The cases I read with successful sexsomnia defenses were all in the UK, I believe. #sexsomnia
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From what I understand of sleepwalking and other sleepwalking-like disorders, it's possible to not realize the person asleep is actually asleep. People sleepwalk with their eyes open. So if someone was asleep but you didn't realize it, and started to make sexy time moves, how could it be rape, legally?
I'm less concerned about actual cases in which rape under these circumstances are occcurring, and more concerned about this stuff getting used as an excuse for raping someone. This disorder is so rare that the larger danger (societally, obviously not on an individual level) is using it as a defense.
I've definitely started having sex while still asleep. I take medicine that makes me have very, very vivid dreams, and a few months ago I woke up in the middle of fooling around with my boyfriend. Actually I was about to have an orgasm and that was what woke me up. Actually it was fucking awesome. He didn't realize that I was asleep until after we were finished having sex (I woke up before there was any actual intercourse). He was like, "I was wondering why you suddenly went from being kind of quiet to suddenly being far more vocal." That woman's boyfriend is way creepier, though, because he knew she was asleep. If my boyfriend had known I was asleep he would have poked me in the cheek to wake me up and make sure everything was ok.
I wish it would happen more often though, because seriously waking up to an orgasm is delightful, especially for someone who usually has to concentrate really hard on to have one. #sexsomnia
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and for the record, this woman he has in the first clip is a canadian documentary filmmaker/tabloid journalist. and the movie that she made to which she refers is about girls in CANADA. this fraud made the talkshow rounds a few months ago under the "oral sex is the new goodnight kiss" line and it was just as much bullshit then as it is now.
10/08/09
10/08/09
When I was 15, my boyfriend was 17. He went down on my all the time, and I never returned the favor. I was scared to death of his penis! And he never made me feel guilty about it. I think he got a lot of pleasure from making me happy. And the one time we almost had sex, I said no after the condom was on and he was ready to go, and he didn't give me any attitude or hassle.
I wonder how he's doing now, and I bet his girlfriend or wife is a very satisfied. I was very grateful to have such a good guy be the one to introduce me to sexuality, and he certainly earned some good karma.
There are good guys out there!
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It's funny that you mention men our age, because what I miss most about being in high school, even once I had had sex, was the way that making out for hours was an acceptable thing. Now, it's like, "Oh, my dick is hard, let's do something about that! Right now." No. I would like to make out for hours again. I think it would make sex more exciting, too.
10/08/09
Some guys get off on feeling like a nice guy.
10/08/09
If you are not still with her (probably not, since it seemed like you were speaking in the past tense) know that she probably remembers you with a lot of affection and gratitude for being so great.
You just made my day! It's so nice to hear from the good guys.
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After barely seeing him for years we reconnected on his 18th birthday and I took his virginity. It just didn't seem right that a guy who'd done so much for the pleasure of girls never got much in return. But he was so big I almost cried, so I understand why we were all so scared of the penis.
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