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Zombie Ms. Skittles
04:26 PM

In reply to “I Want To Feel Horny. I Want To Want.”
My libido has dropped to practically zero since I went off BCP, but oddly my mental desire to masturbate is just as high as always. I don't really feel like having sex except maybe a couple times a month and my physical desire is completely gone (I'm still waiting for my progesterone to balance back out). Mentally, though, I still want frequent orgasms so I still masturbate all the damn time. There are weeks where my body is SO against the idea that I hurt myself doing it.

Maybe I should be worried about that.
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jigglyball
04:16 PM

In reply to “I Want To Feel Horny. I Want To Want.”
And here I thought whey was the frumpster of the food world. Whaddya know.
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Cimorene
04:12 PM

In reply to “I Want To Feel Horny. I Want To Want.”
1. I totally see raisins as helping have conversation. When I have small things to eat, and thereby have something physical to do with my hands and face and to look at while I talk, it's easier for me to be honest.
2. "an immersion in physical sensation" is exactly what I need to get feeling sexytimes. Luckily my partner is the most tactile person I've ever met, and the way the media talks about men being "visual creatures" is how he is, but with touch.
3. This post is an example of how to write about women's sexual desire, and the potential lack there of, without implying that women have to live up to a certain expectation of sexual drive to be "normal" or "healthy."

Things like women who "feel distressed over the absence of desire" always makes me worry. On the one hand, since being in my current relationship I've experienced a serious dive in sex drive, which is now increasing due to going of BCP. The past year has been insanely frustrating because I have not wanted to have sex, and it was affecting my relationship for a while because it was affecting my state of mind, feelings of worthiness/being a good partner, and general lack of feeling connected to him in a way I was used to. He felt kind of rejected and was tending towards a low self-esteem and feeling like I wasn't attracted to him because we didn't have sex for a few months, which kind of just happened and before I knew it it had been 3 months since we had sex. (When we talked about it, these things went away and got better.) So, I hate my low sex drive and want it to go away.

But when I was a youngin', I wasn't interested in having sex the way everyone around me was, including the people I was pseudo-involved with. It was because I wasn't in a place where I was interested in sex, and it wasn't a problem. Except I thought it was, because I thought I was weird and being abnormal. But really I wasn't. And that was ok. And rather than feeling dissatisfied with my sex drive at the time, which is what I was, I should have been feeling ok with it and should have felt dissatisfied with the expectations of those around me (which affected my own expectations). So I hope that these researchers are making a difference between "I want to have more sex because I love sex and have noticed changes or am personally unsatisfied," and "My boyfriend wants to have sex more than I do and I want to make him happy so I wish I was more into sex when we have it even when I'm not that into it."

It's a fine line, and difficult in a world in which female sexual desire is constructed so differently from male desire.
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Aesop's Foibles. YES.
04:08 PM

In reply to “I Want To Feel Horny. I Want To Want.”
Uh, not the point, but what the hell is sensual about a raisin? It's sticky and wrinkly. And yellowy brown. And smells like raisins. Gettin' excited? Me neither.

Anyway. I'm glad this topic is being discussed. So much has been made about Viagra for the doods, and prostate health is no longer an untouchable subject. Commercials for "male sexual enhancement" pills are all over the place. But where are the lady-versions of these commercials? Where is the effort to determine possible causes for lack of libido in women? Why does it seem as though the only reasons accepted for it are either " you're depressed" or "you're unhappy with your body and don't like getting naked or otherwise intimate"? I don't think these reasons could possibly apply to every woman suffering from lack of desire. I think that in addition to things like birth-control side effects and relationship issues, which are obviously going to cause problems in the bedroom, there has got to be another explanation. Because not every woman uses birth control, not every woman has relationship issues, not every woman is taking anti-depressants. So it's not like you can blanket everybody with this one-cause-fits-all approach. I don't know. I just feel like it's encouraging to know that some effort is finally being made and that maybe at some point this subject won't always turn into "Haha, she's got a headache again-frigid bitch" or "Oh, well now that she's not twenty anymore, she's put on some weight and doesn't feel sexy" or whatever.
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morninggloria
04:06 PM

In reply to “I Want To Feel Horny. I Want To Want.”
Why can't dudes just be sexier?
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BetteD
04:07 PM

@morninggloria: Until then, we should all just lie there and think of James Franco.
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Zombie Ms. Skittles
04:21 PM

@BetteD: I do that already.
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Scout
04:01 PM

In reply to “I Want To Feel Horny. I Want To Want.”
I feel that sexuality is more complicated than not for most people and yet, the expectation to have an "on/off" switch, that if it doesn't work you are "broken" and, ultimately not many in the scientific community nor Big Pharma really give a fuck about your problem just adds insult to injury.

then we have porn. love/hate relationship with it because it propagates the "on/off" idea without lending any importance to other aspects of sexuality.

I really feel for those women who suffer from a lack of sexual desire if only because of external pressures, expectations and ultimately, judgment.
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clevernamehere
04:00 PM

In reply to “I Want To Feel Horny. I Want To Want.”
This might sound strange, but reading how the researcher thinks most women don't have much lust I wonder how masturbation fits into things.

I see how a new/no partner plays into sexual behavior, but masturbation is always available. If women are so lust neutral, how do you explain female masturbation?

So, I'm curious- How often do most Jezzies masturbate, particularly when single or their partner is unavailable (since sex can obviously take the place of masturbation)?
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Penny
04:04 PM

@clevernamehere: Very rarely anymore, and my boyfriend has asked me for years to do it in front of him and I can't bring myself to.

And I am seriously not a prude, I guess just a freak in this regard.
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morninggloria
04:05 PM

@clevernamehere: Never.
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curiousgeorgiana
04:05 PM

@clevernamehere: I masturbate pretty regulary-- even in a committed relationship. I see my guy only on weekends, so M-F I would say at least 2 times during the work week.

Much more about a week before my period.
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queenjulie
04:12 PM

@clevernamehere: I'm on the far-right tail of the bell curve as far as masturbating goes. I do it every day, often more then once, and almost always just after sex--I find masturbating then is more satisfying then at other times (probably because I'm all "warmed up," so to speak).

The weird thing is, even though masturbating is a constant for me (and has been since I was a child), my sex drive has been extremely low since I had my second daughter 18 months ago. The hormone shift after she was born, combined with a very sick, difficult baby, totally killed my libido, and it's never really returned. I would pay amillion dollars for a female Viagra to help me get back how I was before. Before (and even after my first daughter's birth), I had a super-high libido--most guys were shocked by how much sex I wanted. But now, it's totally different.
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curiousgeorgiana promoted this comment Edited by queenjulie at 11/25/09 4:13 PM queenjulie was starred queenjulie was unstarred

scarletbegonia
04:18 PM

@clevernamehere: I would disagree with you re: masturbation. I have trouble, especially lately, getting horny when I'm actually with someone (mind says yes, body says no). Yet I am still a sexual being, so masturbation satisfies that for me. It doesn't really take the place of a partner.

Last year I had issues with abusing it and would get off to release any kind of energy whatsoever. Tired, bored, angry, sad, anxious...I would masturbate. It seemed like the more I was down on myself, the more I would masturbate. When I'm happy I hardly ever do it, but tend to have much more fulfilling sex.

I'm trying to be healthier about it now.
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Zombie Ms. Skittles
04:23 PM

@clevernamehere: Are we counting individual orgasms or sessions? A couple sessions a day with 2-3 orgasms each session. Less often if I have a willing partner around, but still multiple times a week. If we're counting times when I masturbate DURING sex, then I have fewer orgasms but probably just as many sessions.
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Penny
03:50 PM

In reply to “I Want To Feel Horny. I Want To Want.”
...all these women yearning after bodice-ripping desire...

I'd settle for a tingle in my nether-regions now and then.

Seriously, I am 30 and have had a problem with this for as long as I can remember. So much so that therapists and people close to me have thought I was sexually abused (there was one small incident, but I don't think it was the cause).

It's totally mental, and it totally sucks. I feel like I will never resolve it.
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Edited by Penny at 11/25/09 3:53 PM Penny was starred Penny was unstarred

killershrew
03:57 PM

@Penny: Penny, I completely empathize because I'm the same way. And it doesn't bother me for myself, but it causes serious problems in my marriage. I've tried therapy and medication (Wellbutrin), but nothing's really helped. I don't have any helpful suggestions, I'm afraid, but I know how it feels. Or doesn't.
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Dorilys
04:00 PM

@Penny: I have the same problem. I really have very little in the way of sexual desire. Husband is very far to the opposite.
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Penny
04:01 PM

@killershrew: :-( Yes, it's caused a lot of issues in my 4 year long relationship as well. There's a lot of guilt, and a lot of frustration.
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BetteD
03:28 PM

In reply to "For Me, Pornography Is Performing": Sasha Grey On Sex, Work, Communication
"Ideally everyone should have something extra on the side" ?

Um, doesn't the idea that her morals should dictate "everyone's" behavior sort of contradict her primary point?

How about this: when you enter into a relationship with someone, make sure that their key values are at least mostly aligned with yours. Otherwise, there will be lying, fights, and general unhappiness.

Granted, this attitude isn't as "sexy" as saying everyone should be able to have affairs with impugnity and those who disagree with that dictate are backwards prudes, but it does make a lot more sense.

You'd think that Sasha Grey would see the attitudes leveled at her and those in her profession and adopt a more "live and let live" approach to judging relationships. Instead, she has the same black-and-white views as the mainstream, just in the opposite order.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
02:52 PM

In reply to "For Me, Pornography Is Performing": Sasha Grey On Sex, Work, Communication
'Americans act so shocked when they hear about politicians, celebrities, and athletes having affairs, but I have to believe that many men who are married to women with sex appeal are aware of affairs, and accept it. Don't ask, don't tell; as long as they receive something in exchange from their wife-whether that exchange be children, money, material items, or sex.'
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JessickerFletcher
02:50 PM

In reply to "For Me, Pornography Is Performing": Sasha Grey On Sex, Work, Communication
[I]n most of the interview she sounds very mature and articulate

I personally found her to sound pretty immature and naive. Granted, she's got some interesting ideas but they're not fully formed or rather accessible in my opinion. If anything, I feel like some of the ideas she presented were fed to her from the porn industry. She came across as very defensive (completely understandable) and young.

I don't mean to lambaste her but I don't think she's in the position to be expressing her opinions on a wide range of subjects when it seems like she has very little experience or knowledge outside of her work.
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sapphire
03:02 PM

@JessickerFletcher: How dare she have opinions? Feminism hasn't been about allowing all women to express their opinions or anything, right?
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hamburgerhotdog
03:13 PM

@sapphire: I don't care what your opinion is as long as it's A) researched and B) can be backed up. She's got neither of those by the looks of it. Like Confucius said, "To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge."
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bluebears
03:22 PM

@sapphire: oh please. There's nothing wrong with critiquing someone's opinions when they publish them in a national magazine.
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sapphire
03:41 PM

@bluebears: "I don't think she's in the position to be expressing her opinions on a wide range of subjects when it seems like she has very little experience or knowledge outside of her work."

This doesn't sound like me to even be critiquing someone's opinion. I hear this as questioning her right to have opinions and talk about them.
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bluebears
03:47 PM

@sapphire: she's critiquing her level of knowledge on the subjects she's opining about.
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JessickerFletcher
03:49 PM

@sapphire: No one's questioning her right to have opinions or her right to project them.
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veronykah
02:47 PM

In reply to Dubious Honors
That reminds me of a conversation I had with a co-worker. He was telling me about how one of his friends knows some playmates, she herself is a centerfold, and how they were swearing and not "acting classy" at some party.
He went on to say that she was so much more classy than them and was herself a "classy woman".
I went on to say that women that show their beaver in a magazine are not really what the word classy denotes. He then insinuated I was a prude for not believing a girl who poses naked can be classy.
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LilyBonesBurana
02:35 PM

In reply to "For Me, Pornography Is Performing": Sasha Grey On Sex, Work, Communication
Sorry. I read her quotes and all I think is, "Dang, is she YOUNG."

No offense to you other, perhaps more mature youngsters. There's just a baseline know-it-allness that indicates a certain need to grow up a little. Or a lot.

Young =/ immature, but you catch the drift...
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Tchotchke
02:30 PM

In reply to "For Me, Pornography Is Performing": Sasha Grey On Sex, Work, Communication
I can't shake the feeling that I find Sasha Grey so...unlikable. In almost every interview I read of hers, she comes across as cocky to me. I don't think she is unintelligent or inarticulate; there is just something about her demeanor that I find off-putting. And it isn't a porn star thing, because I actually like Jenna Jameson based on her interviews. I suppose the difference is that Jenna is willing to acknowledge and discuss the unsavory sides of her business, and therefore comes across as reflective, while Sasha just seems overly self-assured.

(Again, this is my take on this--just to pre-empt the people who were annoyed at me for defending Jenna in the Oprah thread.)
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JessickerFletcher
02:27 PM

In reply to "For Me, Pornography Is Performing": Sasha Grey On Sex, Work, Communication
I really dislike it when porn stars think that anyone who doesn't respect their career choice (or them) is prudish, immature, ignorant, puritanical, or repressed.

She seems (sadly) uneducated and immature (based on this interview and others I've seen).
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LilSpitfire
02:28 PM

@JessickerFletcher: I agree with you. I have a healthy adult sex life. I have healthy relationships. I don't see how not thinking porn is empowering makes me prudish.
Oh and I'm a secular humanist.

But fucking for money on camera still doesn't sit right with me.

I won't throw stones but I also won't accept it as "normal". Human sexuality is too complicated to just package it like a product.
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JessickerFletcher
02:39 PM

@LilSpitfire: I don't see how not thinking porn is empowering makes me prudish

Exactly. Took the words straight out of my mouth. Using your sexuality/femininity/whatever as means to make a living is not empowering in my book whatsoever.
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hamburgerhotdog
02:42 PM

@JessickerFletcher: She's 21, and probably suffering a lot of the "know-it-all"isms we all suffered at that age. I think she's intelligent but her age and other factors probably have put her in a bit of a bubble and she likes to think she's the only smart person to ever be in the industry and flaunts that. Hopefully age and experience (and maybe more education) will give her better perspective.
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Edited by hamburgerhotdog at 11/25/09 2:43 PM hamburgerhotdog was starred hamburgerhotdog was unstarred

sapphire
02:43 PM

@LilSpitfire: Human sexuality is too complicated to dismiss any part of it as not 'normal'.
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LilSpitfire
02:45 PM

@sapphire: I guess it's the making it a product part that feels weird.

Something that should be free and natural?

I don't know.

#tips
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JessickerFletcher
02:52 PM

@hamburgerhotdog: Agreed on all points.
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scarletwine
03:54 PM

@hamburgerhotdog: She's also been touted as the thoughtful and empowered porn star by her producers. She's bound to have internalized some of that and actually believe that she's an expert on sexuality in general because she works in the industry and she's obviously not a total idiot. But to me, she sounds like many other girls her age, and there's nothing wrong with that except that she seems to be held up as a type of role mode.
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hamburgerhotdog
04:05 PM

@scarletwine: Exactly--special snowflake syndrome.I wonder just how much reading she's done on gender, class and culture studies in her industry. Young Jedi knight has a lot to learn...
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Edited by hamburgerhotdog at 11/25/09 4:05 PM hamburgerhotdog was starred hamburgerhotdog was unstarred

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