I might have to read some of Jung's own writings some day... but A Jungian Primer spoiled my openness to his ideas. It was the first book that I deliberately threw across a room. Then I got up to retrieve it, feeling sheepish, only to throw it again a couple lines later.
It was the section on the qualities of the animus/anima that did it.
Well, it's important to remember the difference between Jung himself and the way a therapist uses his philospophy. Sounds like Anna N. may have had a wacky therapist.
Also, Jung is why the first 3 Star Wars movies made were so awesome, so we always have to thank him for that.
@dreamweave: Well, it's important to remember the difference between Jung himself and the way a therapist uses his philospophy.
Totally. And also just because Jungian therapy/analysis didn't work for me doesn't mean it wouldn't work for other people, or that his ideas aren't interesting in a non-therapeutic context (such as Star Wars).
I don't really use Jung for anything other than his theory of archetypes but holy god his theory of archetypes is solid gold. If nothing else they're really nice to just pull from for character tropes. So if nothing else, thank you Carl Jung for your contribution to fiction.
@RollRoll: Um, yes. At some point during schooling, everyone should be required to read The Hero With a Thousand Faces. In my final year of high school, all of the literary analysis we did was through a Jungian perspective.
Love Jungian principles for dream analysis, and the literary use of psychoanalysis. Interesting, creative means to explore the psyche... but not so much for actual therapy. If you are bipolar, Jungian therapy won't help. But that doesn't mean that he still doesn't hold a place in society. Not everything has to be geared towards medicinal purposes.
@CurtCole: Like Freud, I think Jung remains applicable to literature and criticism and probably will long after psycotherapy has moved on from both of them (which it arguably sort of has).
A note about the Jungian obsession of dream analysis and mysticism: this was the result of a huge movement in Germany, which flourished in the 19th century and was based on the philosophy of Kant (namely, in the rejection of reason and Enlightenment ideals). Dreams, spiritualism, supernatural experiences, mythology, magic etc. were all highly valued and saturated the concerns of everyday life. Jung would have been influenced by Kant, hence his obsession with dreams.
Does Jung matter now? Probably not. Jung's work with dreams is "bullshit" because it was someone's interpretation of a century-old philosophy (Kant was active at the end of the 18th century). Nonetheless the Red Book could be a compelling document to see how Jung practiced what he preached.
It matters when you live with someone who WORSHIPS him. Sigh....
I'm with you on the opinion about dream analysis. The anti-Semitic charges also bother me, somewhat. And I can't help thinking that because he was Jung, the "voices" were OK and he used them in his research but if it was someone else, they would have given them electroshock treatment.
In most psychoanalytic/psychodynamic training programs, Jung doesn't get mentioned much - he's considered to be more of a pop culture guy, and his social views didn't help him much. I have patients with whom I do CBT, and I also do psychodynamic psychotherapy. You can get a good sense of who would benefit from what by discussing their goals, struggles and interests. Someone who gets really caught in negative self-talk and is suffering from social anxiety may do great in CBT, whereas someone who gets depressed episodically and can't figure out where these negative emotions are coming from may prefer psychodynamic work.
I prefer psychodynamic work because it's awesome to see people get in touch with their anger, insecurity and fear, and see them learn how to reflect on their emotions and identity without getting caught in an emotional storm. Studies show that the number one factor in whether someone will benefit from therapy is their relationship with their therapist, rather than the modality.
Modern psychodynamics can be really flexible and inclusive. I like Jung's idea about the shadow, for example: the idea that things we judge in other people are emotions we feel as well but supress because they're intolerable, and the more you can't see it in yourself, the more judgmental and angry you are at the world. That's awesome!
@funzette: You are so not a nerd. The shadow self and the archetypes are very interesting, even if you are just trying to kind of understand it as a way that people might "work" if I can say that. Clarissa Pinkola Estes, the analyst who wrote "Women who run with the Wolves" a decade ago, was a big Jungian and it was beautiful the way she used the thought processes.
Jung pioneered the idea of constructive treatment. Cognitive-behavioural therapy wouldn't exist without him. Before Jung, the therapist was a paternal figure who would simply tell the patient the problem. After Jung therapy became a collaborative process.
Also he is basically the founder of art therapy. Jung is pretty relevant still, believe me.
Carl Jung mattered to me in high school because I had an (in all ways awesome) English teacher very deep into Jungian theory who would stop class to analyze dreams.
Best moment:
Student: "Mrs. X, I dreamed I had sex with a condor."
Mrs. X: "That's very wise!"
This was at a Catholic girls school, by the way.
Regardless, I personally support making room for mythology and the irrational, whatever that means to individuals. But I never got over "Hero With A Thousand Faces," so.
@BlueJeans: I believe it takes the irrational, the other, the out side ones own ideas, to keep us from making life into the "Absurd" way of living that Sartre wrote about.
@badmutha: God, she was. She kept an old recliner, a blanket, and a space heater in the back of her classroom, and if you looked exhausted or sickly, she'd just point at you and say "Chair." And you would get to curl up and sleep for an hour.
To your other point: we live in a culture that is afraid to be anything but hyper-rational, I think. Which is its own form of absurdity -- I think of Sartre, too -- because how the eff are you ever supposed to actually judge what is "rational"....plus, we're not necessarily rational creatures to begin with.
As somebody who has always been fascinated by mythology (and lives in her own little fantasy world) I love the "collective unconscious" for self-analysis, and have also found Jungian symbolism useful when delving in tarot and astrology. I'm a wee bit embarrassed to admit all that.
I rarely remember my dreams well enough to analyze them, but Louie Armstrong cooked me a cauliflower omelet in my dream last night and told me that it was because I have daddy issues. I completely disagreed.
Last night I had a dream that I was late to my college graduation (which occurred in 2005) because I was having a C-section and right afterwards I had to race to take my bed apart and then run across a field to try to find where the orchestra was playing "Pomp and Circumstance."
@Uncommon Whore: I went to a Jungian analyst for 3 1/2 years and had to "train" myself to remember my dreams. It was sort of fun to have my dreams analyzed, but at $90 a session (or whatever it was) it seemed more like an expensive party trick than a real solution to my problems!
don't be embarassed! that's what works for some of us. tarot, astrology and archetypes work far better for me than going to a therapist. i like the symbolism, it helps me understand myself and others better than psychology's often narrow classifications of good vs. bad or healthy vs. unhealthy. i think it actually allows for more individuality without classifying people so scientiffically coldly. (hope that makes sense.)
Research shows that analysis does not produce results; it can, in fact, make depressed people worse. CBT works, especially when combined with SSRIs. Even if my insurance would pay for years of analysis, I'd rather go with the method that will actually improve my mental state.
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It was the section on the qualities of the animus/anima that did it.
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Also, Jung is why the first 3 Star Wars movies made were so awesome, so we always have to thank him for that.
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Totally. And also just because Jungian therapy/analysis didn't work for me doesn't mean it wouldn't work for other people, or that his ideas aren't interesting in a non-therapeutic context (such as Star Wars).
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Does Jung matter now? Probably not. Jung's work with dreams is "bullshit" because it was someone's interpretation of a century-old philosophy (Kant was active at the end of the 18th century). Nonetheless the Red Book could be a compelling document to see how Jung practiced what he preached.
09/17/09
I'm with you on the opinion about dream analysis. The anti-Semitic charges also bother me, somewhat. And I can't help thinking that because he was Jung, the "voices" were OK and he used them in his research but if it was someone else, they would have given them electroshock treatment.
09/17/09
I prefer psychodynamic work because it's awesome to see people get in touch with their anger, insecurity and fear, and see them learn how to reflect on their emotions and identity without getting caught in an emotional storm. Studies show that the number one factor in whether someone will benefit from therapy is their relationship with their therapist, rather than the modality.
Modern psychodynamics can be really flexible and inclusive. I like Jung's idea about the shadow, for example: the idea that things we judge in other people are emotions we feel as well but supress because they're intolerable, and the more you can't see it in yourself, the more judgmental and angry you are at the world. That's awesome!
/I'm a huge nerd
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Different years, though. I'm not 134 years old.
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Also he is basically the founder of art therapy. Jung is pretty relevant still, believe me.
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Best moment:
Student: "Mrs. X, I dreamed I had sex with a condor."
Mrs. X: "That's very wise!"
This was at a Catholic girls school, by the way.
Regardless, I personally support making room for mythology and the irrational, whatever that means to individuals. But I never got over "Hero With A Thousand Faces," so.
09/17/09
Your teacher sounds AWESOME.
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To your other point: we live in a culture that is afraid to be anything but hyper-rational, I think. Which is its own form of absurdity -- I think of Sartre, too -- because how the eff are you ever supposed to actually judge what is "rational"....plus, we're not necessarily rational creatures to begin with.
09/17/09
I rarely remember my dreams well enough to analyze them, but Louie Armstrong cooked me a cauliflower omelet in my dream last night and told me that it was because I have daddy issues. I completely disagreed.
09/17/09
Last night I had a dream that I was late to my college graduation (which occurred in 2005) because I was having a C-section and right afterwards I had to race to take my bed apart and then run across a field to try to find where the orchestra was playing "Pomp and Circumstance."
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don't be embarassed! that's what works for some of us. tarot, astrology and archetypes work far better for me than going to a therapist. i like the symbolism, it helps me understand myself and others better than psychology's often narrow classifications of good vs. bad or healthy vs. unhealthy. i think it actually allows for more individuality without classifying people so scientiffically coldly. (hope that makes sense.)
09/17/09
Research shows that analysis does not produce results; it can, in fact, make depressed people worse. CBT works, especially when combined with SSRIs. Even if my insurance would pay for years of analysis, I'd rather go with the method that will actually improve my mental state.