Jezebel 
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New York, 6:05 AM
Sun Nov 8
22 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/05/09
Isn't "mail order bride" just another word for "sex slave"? #mensrights
11/05/09
I worked in DV at the DA's office, and one fed-up judge, when talking to a male victim who wanted to drop charges said something along the lines of: "I rarely allow women to do this. Just because you're a man doesn't mean this isn't serious, I don't think you're getting the victims' resources you need." Women frequently refused to testify against men, and wanted to drop charges, and if we could, we still prosecuted. But men overwhelmingly were the abusers, and as Anna pointed out, were the ones who killed and stalked. #mensrights
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They have a point, in a certain sense.
Now, let me clarify, because I know that seems awful after what the article has just presented us with.
The basis of their arguments is not necessarily untrue - men are more often denied custody, men who are victims of abuse are more often unable to find/willing to seek help when they need it, do not have their sexual assaults taken seriously (especially if they were assaulted by a woman), more men are victims of homicide (I think, but I might be remembering that incorrectly - please correct me if that is so), etc.
But they go about addressing these problems in the craziest, counter-productive way possible, and that's where their point ends, and they really, really need to start talking to people other than MRAs.
My male friends who have been sexually assaulted have not been willing to seek help - they figure that they will just be mocked and thrown back into the situation. The shelter I volunteer for will not take male victims of abuse (safety and trauma issues, which I agree with), and unfortunately, we don't have enough funding (whoops, looks like the shelter-as-free-income thing is a lie!) for a men's shelter. So any man who requires shelter has to be put in a hotel/motel room, which makes him feel even more alone. That is terrible. Victims of violence should always be taken seriously and I wish that we had far more resources than we do, but alas, MRAs are the ones working against us to take away funding. Good job, assholes, you've not only hurt a lot of women, but you've undermined one of the few resources the men you're talking about could have utilized.
The fact that these men who have been abused exist should never be used to minimize the epidemic of violence against women, but the fact that the majority of violence is enacted upon women doesn't mean that we should ignore the minority of men that are affected by it. In these kinds of discussions, I have seen a few people throw it out, because they are the minority. We, as feminists (and I do not know if those who were arguing that point were feminist or not), should be willing to fight for equality of all minorities, even if they are privileged.
MRAs take a legitimate complaint and turn it into a fucking circus that not only works against them, but harms everyone involved. I am so angry with them and their movement. Yes, there are abused men and women who hit their partners. That doesn't mean that every single one is lying. Rape happens. To a lot of people. To men as well as women. But they are willing to undercut and destroy the resources that victims of violence have. They're willing to uphold a rape culture, because they don't see themselves as part of it. They are completely unsympathetic to the plight of anyone else, including the people they're talking about and claiming to fight for.
Gender equality and mutual respect are the answers to these problems. They need to bring to light that anyone can be sexually assaulted (with respect to the numbers, of course, to give greater understanding as to why most people view it as a "women's issue" and all that), that men deserve to be equal parents, fathers matter, men deserve to have full access to their emotions, and all of that stuff. WAIT A SECOND THAR, SKIPPY, THAT SOUNDS A LOT LIKE FEMINISM.
Well, that's because it is.
Stop fighting gender equality and the rights of others. Start fighting for gender equality and the rights of others. And I guarantee that you will see more progress to the solutions you're seeking. #mensrights
11/05/09
Let's just break down stereotypes - on BOTH sides! #mensrights
11/05/09
The hysteria of the MRAs also reflects the fear that ensuring more rights or protections for one oppressed group can somehow take away from everyone else's rights (ahem, marriage equality haters).
You're absolutely right that protecting all people, and all domestic partners, is the ultimate goal here. #mensrights
11/05/09
11/05/09
It is important to remember that domestic abuse does come in all forms: husband-wife, parent-child, sibling-sibling, child-parent & wife-husband. I greatly believe that some men (in the form of husbands, sons, or brothers) are afflicted with various forms of domestic abuse (especially emotional, verbal or financial) from family members. This is a societal problem that is largely ignored, thanks to the strangulating standards of masculinity--- a man/boy who is in an abusive environment is already perceived as weak, or emasculated-- seeking help would only augment that perception.
Unfortunately, men's rights advocates have no interest in redefining the standards of masculinity which would allow society to help those in this position. Instead, they clamour for some perverse form of 'equality' while ignoring the roots at the bottoms of the problem.
11/05/09
It's unreasonable to expect people to support a movement if they don't understand why it benefits them. "It's the right thing to do" just doesn't cut it. I personally think that using terms like "gender equality" instead of "women's rights" would do wonders for making inroads to men whose masculinity is getting in their way. #mensrights
11/05/09
@molo_lola: Thank you! I am sick of that framework, too. They could do a lot of good if instead of just slamming women/feminists over and over, they actually addressed some of the reasons that men are afraid to get help for abuse.
@Melpomene: Right on! If they really cared so much about the plight of abused men, you'd think they'd start shelters, reach out, or challenge the idea that abused man = weak man. But they don't. Which implies to me they aren't really that concerned about it.
@CaptFamous: You're right - that's why it's so important to talk about the men's side of domestic violence, and people like Jackson Katz are so important. Men need to hear it from other men, and we need to hear how it can affect anyone, regardless of who they are. When we stop seeing "men's" issues and "women's" issues, we'll be a lot better off, I think. Men and women don't operate in separate spheres, so why would their problems have no overlap? #mensrights
11/06/09
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11/05/09
Oh yes, because the few months I lived there I saw tons of money floating around. I didn't see women that had to be shuttled to different shelters because their abusers found the location. I didn't see terrified women who couldn't even bring themselves to be around men (and that was the rule no men allowed in the building). I didn't see women who could barely speak English and were therefore unable to seek help until their kids grew old enough to know the language. #mensrights
11/05/09
(I am hoping you catch the sarcasm, because I have seen the inside of many shelters - they do the best they can with what they have, which isn't much, and it's hard all around. And from your statement, it sounds like you were a client. If so, congrats on getting out, because that is so hard and difficult.) #mensrights
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11/05/09
I guess the fact that Union Jack (The British Captain America) is officially homosexual now might have hampered that. #mensrights
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What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO? #mensrights
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Okay, both of you: these are not clear cut instances in which men are "discriminated against." The military thing is one where a female lieutenant may be discriminated against because their husbands are not considered "dependents" and therefore cannot access the same benefits. As for custody cases, cite examples. Don't hypothesize. #mensrights
11/05/09
I think it's generally true that anyone can sue if he or she can prove discrimination based on gender. I'm not sure how male nurses factor in. I've never heard of a gender discrimination suit on behalf of a male nurse, at least not in the last decade or two.
I can, however, refer you to many articles about sexual harrassment of female nurses by doctors and patients. #mensrights
11/05/09
11/05/09
[findarticles.com] #mensrights
11/05/09
11/05/09
The kicker? The previous day I had done the exact same thing i.e. I travelled through the same airport with our four year old son: Nobody stopped me in spite of the fact that my son and I don't have the same last name and that he does not look one bit like me. An officer did ask me in passing "Does your husband know you are traveling with the child?" and after I said yes, she let me breeze right through.
I am as feminist as they come, but if this is not an example male-discrimination, I don't know what is. #mensrights
11/05/09
However, in a very self-serving way, discrimination against men, including the nurse case that TubofTaft mentioned seems very harmful to me, because often it is just reinforcing the gender stereotypes that are used against women. Ruth Bader Ginsberg was a pioneer for women's rights, but some of her first cases were where men were being discriminated against, because they provided legal precedent for deciding what constituted gender discrimination.
And I think there are some issues with custody agreements, however, I can't be very sympathetic when men who never fought for paternity leave, or spent time at home with their kids complain about less than 50% custody. #mensrights
11/05/09
(Sorry Anna, I know I'm kinda parroting what you said so well above). #mensrights
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11/05/09
What are these men folk and why do I need 'em? Huh? HUH? #mensrights
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(Now I have Warren G in my head, strangely) #mensrights
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But no such luck. #mensrights
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Empirically, if you watch COPS with any regularity, you'll see a number somewhere in the middle of these two; "How did you get that mark on your face?" People beat each other up, and characterizing a pattern of abuse can be difficult (or impossible, from just watching a TV show).
I'd like to see better analysis and collection for all forms of crime data - so that we can truly emphasize reducing violent crime, not just superficially "cleaning up a neighborhood." #mensrights
11/05/09
THEY TOOK OUR JOBS! #mensrights
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