Why is everybody referring to Shane Ryan as an adult filmmaker? He doesn't make porn; he does amateur B-movies with horror and sexpolitation themes.
Of course, I think I'd much rather if he *were* a pornographer . . . there are some dark, plot-based films that could actually do it well (if it was based on the story and didn't try to promote it as "The Jaycee Dugard Story!"). Shane Ryan, no matter how they try to not make it exploitative, is going to do horribly. Ugh. #jayceedugard
Hooters is losing it's shirt? Oh, the irony! At least now these women won't have to worry about stocking in the workplace (of the orange-hosen variety). #jayceedugard
@MargaretMoony: That was my thought. I mean isn't the point of what they are doing to be exploitative? To take advantage of her situation? #jayceedugard
Edited by Glitterbug (likes life shaken, not stirred) at 11/17/09 6:29 PM
Glitterbug (likes life shaken, not stirred) was starred
Glitterbug (likes life shaken, not stirred) was unstarred
The racial gap is even wider between more-educated women. Higher education is linked to a 30 percent reduction in stillbirths among white women, but no reduction in risk among African-Americans.
I'm not sure how to interpret this. Is it because at a certain point, the entire industry is so racist that the education of the patient is irrelevant? Maybe a more subtle racism, like doctors don't look seriously for the problems more often reported by black women? Because I'm having trouble thinking of other reasons. #jayceedugard
@RisaPlata: My first thought was that maybe black women are just biologically at a higher risk for some of the factors that cause stillbirths. The article said the researchers want to look into that.
But your explanation is completely plausible. Depressing, but not surprising. #jayceedugard
@RisaPlata: I heard someone (one of the study's authors maybe) on NPR saying they believed that being subjected to constant, institutionalized racism over the course of a lifetime led African-American women to have greater stress levels which were internalized and caused higher risk pregnancies. #jayceedugard
I would love a study that could say, "Here, look, we found some very specific numbers-based reasons that racism is bad and (more importantly) THAT IT STILl EXISTS."
@MalinaMango: It may be that there are different biological factors. Like white women are at risk for a, b, and c, while black women are at risk for x, y, and z, because of purely biological reasons. The thing is that despite being at risk for a, b, and c, white women still have a better time in the hospital (which you can see because college educated white women have a 30% reduced risk, but black women don't, so it isn't just about class but specifically about race; money makes things better for white women but not black women). This cannot be because white women are just naturally more healthy and naturally more able to have babies without complications. It is almost certainly because problems at affect white people (a, b, c) are researched and therefore the severity of the complications is lessened. Similarly, most medical studies use white people, unless they are specifically designed to look at race or a specific race. I remember reading something not long ago in which a doctor basically said that no major study of heart disease had ever been done on anyone except white men. So almost everything that is known and used in medicine about heart disease is based on what works and what happens with white men. #jayceedugard
@Cimorene: @winner: @kansasgirl: @kontrolle: @MalinaMango: @RisaPlata: I'm getting my Phd in sociology and took a class on racial health disparities last semester. Controlling for BMI, education, all of the things that normally cause health disparities within races still results in a large gap between Black and White women. The article specifically talks about African American women, however once Black immigrant women have lived in the US about 5 years, their outcomes become almost indistinguishable from African American women. All of these things taken together, researchers have pretty much come to the consensus that the cumulative stress of living in a society that promotes institutional racism leads to these disparate outcomes. Hence why as Black immigrants are assimilated into American society, their birth outcomes begin to mirror African American women in the US. The stress caused by living in a racist society begins to affect them in a similar manner to African American women.
I cannot begin describe how sad this makes me. If anyone wants citations to learn more about this issue, please PM me, I'm having trouble accessing my library account right now. For more reading on theories of institutionalized racism in the US, I recommend Joe Feagin's book Racist America as an excellent overview of the topic. #jayceedugard
@Cerridwen: That's because she was kind of a crazy prophet.
I mean, look, I'm prepared to say in the abstract there's probably woman-friendly porn out there, or at least possible. (Dworkin woulda thought so too I think.) But folks, what that filmmaker is doing is the logical extension of the argument that if all the actors in porn consent to it, "It's fine." I mean, assuming they use of-age actors...
ETA: Okay, so it's not a porno. My point still kinda stands if it were, though.
@Cerridwen: amen! when i was in my freshman women's studies class i was completely pro-porn and thought Dworkin was one of the "feminazis" everyone mocked. and yet, as i've gotten older, it becomes more and more obvious that she had many legitimate points... #jayceedugard
I don't think Shane Ryan is talking about making a porno based on Jaycee. He's talking about making an actual documentary-type thing. Still, he's probably a very wrong person to do such a thing. #jayceedugard
Yes, all victims of childhood sexual exploitation and slavery want nothing more than to have their suffering video-documented, fetishized and sold for the sexual pleasure of men everywhere. It's like being violated all over again! Fun! #jayceedugard
There is no way a porno about Jaycee Dugard won't be exploitative. You'd have to be a pretty sick fuck to even watch it knowing that she was a little girl held against her will until she felt so hopeless she just accepted it. #jayceedugard
@clevernamehere: I don't think he is making a porno about her - just a normal movie made by some guy who happens to be an adult filmmaker. #jayceedugard
I continue to be confused about 1st amendment rights. I was taking this sexual harassment test last night and there was a question that essentially asked "employees can say whatever they want because they are protected by the first amendment, correct?"
The choices were, in a nutshell:
- No. Public (government employees) are protected by the 1st amendment, private employees are not.
- No. Employees give up all their constitutional rights when they are hired.
- Yes. Employees can say whatever they want because they are protected by the 1st amendment.
None made sense to me, and I picked the wrong one (it was the first). But, I know people in private industry have been fired for discriminatory speech/actions, so I am confused. Ditto on the pro life girl above.
@Penny: I am confused by the question it asks you for a few reasons. The most broad one being, "say anything they want to"- no, if you are saying criminal threats or a variety of other things you are not protected no matter who you are. What did the correct answer end up being?
Also keep in mind that like 90% of these sexual harassment courses are not developed or ever even looked at by an attorney before they go out. Therefore, anything regarding actual legal wording is very likely to be completely misguided. #jayceedugard
@Penny: School is a murky area. However, from my (admittedly limited) understanding of constitutional law as it applies to high schools (I always liked to be sure I was on the legal side of any argument before I began making it) everything she wanted to do EXCEPT maybe handing out pamphlets should have been legal. Students are allowed to wear armbands (there was a supreme court case) and participate in days of silence (there's a day of silence for gay rights every year). What probably got her in trouble was asking to hand out literature. #jayceedugard
@Penny: Oh I see it now. I thought you said you picked the wrong one (the first)-when you were actually saying you picked the wrong one and that the first answer was the correct one. That was why I was the most confused because I was like...but that first one seems to be closest to the mark. Why would that be the wrong answer among those? haha. You are not a moron! Why the hell would you know that off the top of your head? #jayceedugard
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: I back you up on that. My con law is also not fabulous but it was the handing out of what was probably going to be religious literature that is the problem just as you said. If we are both wrong, we go down together in solidarity. Viva la bad con law! #jayceedugard
@Penny: As far as I know, while the first choice is indeed correct -- the First Amendment only prohibits the government from restricting free speech -- the question itself is kind of misleading. "Free speech" does not mean you "can say whatever you want." Hate speech and speech that incites violence or the overthrow of the government are illegal no matter what.
@Confabulatia: This is a terrible comparison but it sorta reminds me of how the Mormons got in trouble for baptizing victims of the Holocaust. I mean, we can't just go around deciding we are married to dead people can we? How is there a meeting of the minds? Consent? So many questions in my head. #jayceedugard
@Nariel: I am thinking she may have needed it for issues with the children and perhaps his estate but I do not know a thing about French law in regards to oh, anything. Therefore, who knows if it was merely ceremonial or for an actual legal need. #jayceedugard
@Zombies make the heart grow fonder: No, she didn't need it for the children or the estate (inheritance laws are the same for children born outside of marriage.) She just felt the need to do it. The only thing it changes is that she can bear his name. (She said she preferred to have the same surname as their daughters).
And to get permission to do that, you don't just have to prove that you were together, but that you were actively planning to marry, which was the case here. Anyway, it was weird and quite morbid, since their two little girls were at the ceremony.
@MalinaMango: No, married women have a choice. And the children can bear the names of either of their parents or a hyphenated name.
I don't really get it either. It made sense when marriage was important, but in a country of godless heathens (which is one of my favourite things about living here, just to make things clear) where 52% of children are now born outside of marriage and where they have the exact same rights as those who would have been called "legitimate" in other times, it doesn't make much sense.
I'm more troubled by how their two daughters (aged 3 and 5) understood the whole thing, because they were shown on TV during the ceremony, and the whole thing was quite morbid. But hey, maybe she needed to be officially considered a widow, I don't know. Anyway, it was only permitted because they were about to get married when he died and she was able to prove it. It's not like anyone can marry their dead boyfriend.
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Of course, I think I'd much rather if he *were* a pornographer . . . there are some dark, plot-based films that could actually do it well (if it was based on the story and didn't try to promote it as "The Jaycee Dugard Story!"). Shane Ryan, no matter how they try to not make it exploitative, is going to do horribly. Ugh. #jayceedugard
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REALLY? REALLY? Do you not realize what you're doing then? #jayceedugard
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I'm not sure how to interpret this. Is it because at a certain point, the entire industry is so racist that the education of the patient is irrelevant? Maybe a more subtle racism, like doctors don't look seriously for the problems more often reported by black women? Because I'm having trouble thinking of other reasons. #jayceedugard
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But your explanation is completely plausible. Depressing, but not surprising. #jayceedugard
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I would love a study that could say, "Here, look, we found some very specific numbers-based reasons that racism is bad and (more importantly) THAT IT STILl EXISTS."
@MalinaMango: It may be that there are different biological factors. Like white women are at risk for a, b, and c, while black women are at risk for x, y, and z, because of purely biological reasons. The thing is that despite being at risk for a, b, and c, white women still have a better time in the hospital (which you can see because college educated white women have a 30% reduced risk, but black women don't, so it isn't just about class but specifically about race; money makes things better for white women but not black women). This cannot be because white women are just naturally more healthy and naturally more able to have babies without complications. It is almost certainly because problems at affect white people (a, b, c) are researched and therefore the severity of the complications is lessened. Similarly, most medical studies use white people, unless they are specifically designed to look at race or a specific race. I remember reading something not long ago in which a doctor basically said that no major study of heart disease had ever been done on anyone except white men. So almost everything that is known and used in medicine about heart disease is based on what works and what happens with white men. #jayceedugard
11/17/09
I cannot begin describe how sad this makes me. If anyone wants citations to learn more about this issue, please PM me, I'm having trouble accessing my library account right now. For more reading on theories of institutionalized racism in the US, I recommend Joe Feagin's book Racist America as an excellent overview of the topic. #jayceedugard
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I mean, look, I'm prepared to say in the abstract there's probably woman-friendly porn out there, or at least possible. (Dworkin woulda thought so too I think.) But folks, what that filmmaker is doing is the logical extension of the argument that if all the actors in porn consent to it, "It's fine." I mean, assuming they use of-age actors...
ETA: Okay, so it's not a porno. My point still kinda stands if it were, though.
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That is NOT the policy of our armed forces. It's NOT! #jayceedugard
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The choices were, in a nutshell:
- No. Public (government employees) are protected by the 1st amendment, private employees are not.
- No. Employees give up all their constitutional rights when they are hired.
- Yes. Employees can say whatever they want because they are protected by the 1st amendment.
None made sense to me, and I picked the wrong one (it was the first). But, I know people in private industry have been fired for discriminatory speech/actions, so I am confused. Ditto on the pro life girl above.
11/17/09
Also keep in mind that like 90% of these sexual harassment courses are not developed or ever even looked at by an attorney before they go out. Therefore, anything regarding actual legal wording is very likely to be completely misguided. #jayceedugard
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I called my mom up to ask her and she was confused as well. It ended up being the first choice (public v private). #jayceedugard
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And to get permission to do that, you don't just have to prove that you were together, but that you were actively planning to marry, which was the case here. Anyway, it was weird and quite morbid, since their two little girls were at the ceremony.
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In any case, I get why she felt the need to do this for closure. I just don't get why it's an actual legally binding agreement. #jayceedugard
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I don't really get it either. It made sense when marriage was important, but in a country of godless heathens (which is one of my favourite things about living here, just to make things clear) where 52% of children are now born outside of marriage and where they have the exact same rights as those who would have been called "legitimate" in other times, it doesn't make much sense.
I'm more troubled by how their two daughters (aged 3 and 5) understood the whole thing, because they were shown on TV during the ceremony, and the whole thing was quite morbid. But hey, maybe she needed to be officially considered a widow, I don't know. Anyway, it was only permitted because they were about to get married when he died and she was able to prove it. It's not like anyone can marry their dead boyfriend.
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