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New York, 12:05 AM
Sun Nov 8
20 posts in the last 24 hours
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06/19/09
"Here," you say. "This is from my garden. I want you to have this. I have way too many, and many of my tomatoes are going to die before I can use them. But I think we can get some mutual pleasure from this exchange. This tomato is now yours. It's inside your house and whatever happens to it, happens to it."
"Great," I say. "Thanks."
Now, it turns out that that was a nice heirloom non-hybridized tomato, so the seeds are good for creating new tomato plants. If I decide to plant some of the seeds from the tomato, there's a chance I could get a whole new plant of my own--but then I'd have to water it and take care of it. I could just eat the damn thing, or let it rot. I'd then have to dispose of it safely somehow.
If I decide to grow my own tomato plant, you don't get to come over to my house and yell at me about OH MY GOD YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT, YOU'RE SO IRRESPONSIBLE. If I decide to eat the damn thing or throw it away, you don't get to come over to my house and say YOU ASSHOLE, I WANTED US TO HAVE LOTS OF TOMATO PLANTS TOGETHER.
You see where I'm going with this.
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BOOM. Insta-over kill will be theirs.
06/19/09
But I would suggest that our society's obsession with the constant acquisition of new things, no matter how many old things we have, is not really the best way to express this respect! Further, forcing a woman to carry and give birth to a baby she doesn't want is an excellent way to start on a well-deserved sentence in hell. Just sayin'!
So - The Point: U R missing it.
(Also, and not for nothing, but if I hear one more whiny dad saying "hey, we change diapers!" I will slap that moron across the back of the head. What the hell do you want, asshole? A fucking cookie*? It's your job).
* (R) C. Rock
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I'm also really disgusted that it was the Herculean task for him to feed his daughters for two days. He claims he didn't get the good stuff because he was paying for the sins of past generations, totally missing the fact that he's not an involved father by modern standards.
06/19/09
I think maybe Geoff Williams should talk to his wife about gifts. I love how he's boiled it all down to who gets the best stuff. Right, because that's what it's about: accumulating stuff.
06/19/09
Maybe my family was just cheap, but we've always just done homemade presents for Father's Day AND Mother's Day. Even when the kids got to be too old for our homemade prezzies to be cute anymore. It has never been about the "stuff" at all, just a day to honor the parent, write down some heartfelt and sappy words about them, and spend some time together doing something fun after brunch.
Imagine how gypped Geoff Williams would feel if I were his daughter or wife!
06/19/09
Anyway, as my dad has become more involved in my life, after my mom left/went even crazier, I've noticed how much I HAVE neglected him. Maybe it just changes from family to family, you know? And sometimes, the stereotype that the father is supposed to be stoic and uncaring about feelings or presents persists--regardless, you should always show that you love the people you care about, especially your parents. People may complain that men do nothing, but that's not *all* men, and I don't think that any gift I could give my dad could be enough to show my gratitude.
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The woman trapping men in a relationship via pregnancy problem? SOLVED!
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In the end we still get to make the decision because its our body.
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Options: you have them.
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however, this commenter being so flippant on difficult and IRREVERSIBLE decisions such as abortion and vasectomies is ridiculous. if that's the kind of no-nonsense approach you celebrate, then stop read this, because there is just no meeting of the minds.
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When it comes to reproductive rights, I definitely think that it's all the woman's decision ultimately, since she's the one carrying the kid for nine months, but both parents are important and hopefully will share responsibility after the child is born, so I think men should get some input when it comes to those decisions.
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This is a strawmen, yeah sure the guy could have a kid with someone else. But that doesn't change the belief (or to him a fact) that one of his children were killed by another mother.
Also I think arguments about "fair" and "unfair" when it comes to anatomy really doesn't apply. Especially when there isn't an alternative to make it "fair", those two words simply should not exist.
Of course I'm weary at the idea that all women are forced to have children if the father wants them to, rape cases come to mind. But I do think there should be some power and the proper channels for a father to have his child if he wants it.
As for the last argument about what if a tragedy befell the mother during childbirth, last I check in this day of medicine that is quite the rarity. But if it is earlier determined that the mother may die trying to deliever the child, she definitely has the choice.
06/19/09
Such as?
06/19/09
Jesus. I can't even deal with people sometimes.
06/19/09
- Whether or not the father can support the child on his own, this is most important. No point in forcing a woman to keep the child if the father can't support it.
- Relationship of the parents (this is pretty vague honestly).
- The woman shouldn't have to pay the medical bills for the pregnancy, if she doesn't want it she shouldn't have to pay (more) for it.
And keep in mind, I believe that most importantly the health of the mother matters overall.
@syneblue:
Not that I don't doubt you, would you mind citing some sources for me (my connection at the moment is pretty bad). I'd especially appreciate any that give age information as well.
Also I want ao add a disclaimier to my earlier point about the state of modern day medication, I'm applying this only for first world countires that actually have good practices and standards.
06/19/09
Screw you, I'm no one's vessel.
06/19/09
And frankly if you're forcing her to be an incubator in this twisted little scenario, more than not making her pay, you should really compensate her. For the lost earnings, the physical pain, and the general inconvenience.
06/19/09
And really, it still boils down to obligating and/or forcing someone to go through pregnancy and delivery. I just can't get behind that.
If you're that emphatically anti-abortion I really think you should be having other conversations before you even engage in sex.
06/19/09
If they wanted a kid, they'd go out and find a woman who wants one too. Not me.
06/19/09
I'll be away for a while, I'll come back and join the discussion again later this evening.
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A woman gets pregnant and the man wants nothing do with the child. They used protection and she was on the pill. He does not and has never wanted to be a father. She decides to have the child anyway. So, does the guy have the choice to opt out of fatherhood or is he to be forced into being a father just because she decided to keep it.
I don't know but I would hate it if someone decided to strap me with a child that I did not want. Also, I described a situation that happened to my brother. Fortunately, he found a way out of it (she had a miscarriage).
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I don't think we can make reproduction fair. If a man knows he never, ever wants a child and he would hate being, he can get a vasectomy. Its not a perfect solution, but its a better one than forcing a woman to get an abortion or making the state pick up the tab for his offspring.
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Bottom line is that you choose who you have sex with, and its important to know where that person stands when it comes to unexpected pregnancy. Sometimes tough things happen in life even though you take every precaution to prevent them. Often huge responsibilities are placed on our shoulders despite our best efforts. Most importantly we certainly cannot allow a woman or child's rights to be infringed upon because we don't want those responsibilities.
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I think that for women (recipients), this would be a plus, because I believe it would reduce dead-beat dads to a degree, due to basic affordability, and a stricter delineation of the purpose of these payments. The child gets the priority and there's less motivation to constantly "twist the knife" financially by the adults. If the alimony is your sole source of income, it's still YOUR income. If it puts you in a higher tax bracket, do you really need the alimony?
@JerseyGrrrl: He sounds like a very responsible fellow. People forget that abstinence is the most responsible and healthy thing to do. Unfortunately, any degree of responsibility is difficult to instill in men or women. So, condoms it is!
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If a couple is using condoms and birth control, then they've likely had a conversation about what they'll do in case of unplanned pregnancy.
Some women are just fine with raising a child on their own if they don't want to keep ties to the biological father. No money involved.
If guys are so freaking terrified of women stealing their sperm, why are so many of them eager to have sex without a condom?
It's so odd to hear this sort of thing when pharmacists can still refuse to hand out birth control for religious reasons and abortion clinics are nonexistent in many cities. I hope all the men fighting to opt out are just as eager in making sure women have access to every option possible - including maternity leave, health care and child care.
Someone is going to end up paying for children. And unless these same men (and women) who've procreated spearhead a massive socialist overhaul of the system, it's going to be them.
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@moonybattyjuicey: I assume you'd say the same thing to women seeking abortions, right? If you don't want kids, don't have sex with somebody who can get you pregnant. Women have the choice, except in instances of rape, to not have penises stuck in their vaginas.
Fuck double standards.
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