Jezebel 
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New York, 11:58 AM
Sun Dec 20
19 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/24/09
If you have the opportunity to do a bit of good in the world, you should do it. Just because I can't singlehandedly end world poverty doesn't mean I shouldn't make donations to groups who want to ease the suffering of some.
If you can reduce meat consumption from your diet, that's great. At the very least, you're definitely doing your part to help save the environment. And unless you live in the Arctic and hunt your own animals, you don't need a fur coat (I consider the fur industry to be one of the utmost cruelest thing one can contribute their money to).
11/24/09
I'm not a vegetarian but I deliberately reduce my meat/animal product consumption for environmental reasons. And I'm not perfect. I love the Peter Singer idea put forward in 'The Ethics of What We Eat'. Everyone has budget constraints and a history (personal and familial) that defines their eating but we can always do BETTER. Not be perfect, be better. So you try not to fuck up, but sometimes you do.
11/24/09
Any little thing we can due to ease the suffering we should do.
We aren't going to stop factory farms by not eating turkey on Thursday, but we may just get a few people thinking about what they are eating - not talking being preachy here, just by simple example. If not, that's ok too.
It'd be nice if people could see some of the images taken from fur factories prior to contributing to them.
Horrific!
Synthetic materials are getting better and better. We don't live on the tundra (most of us anyway) so that excuse is bunk. Plus there's heating in most every building these days.
11/24/09
11/24/09
Arguments like his place undue pressure on reformers and activists, and on the long run, discourage them. Why not place the ethical blame where it belongs: corporations who profit by killing animals, and consumers who don't stop to think about what they buy. Why not blame the "nothings" instead of those few moderates who "pick and choose?
When some people moan about animal rights activists "not doing enough," I am tempted to reply, "Just because you can't feed every homeles person, does that mean donating food to charity is pointless?"
Small adjustments make a big difference, and morality is in making ethical decisions to the best of your ability. Just because you can't give up every animal product does not mean you aren't ethical. There is nothing wrong with picking and choosing, as long as you are doing something to help animals. All of us have the ability to do something, and every little bit of interest helps.
Animal rights is not an "all or nothing" ego game, or a contest over who is "the most ethical of them all." It is not about being fashionably ethical or in vogue at a vegan dinner party, but about reducing cruelty to the best of your abilty.
11/23/09
I don't like how animals are treated, but I don't have a problem with them dying. (Or humans killing them, if there's an important distinction there.) On the tree of life, what should we circle and call verboten? Why?
Is it unethical to use or profit from animals in any way? Can I ride a horse? Keep a pet? Breed animals for profit? Can I kill spiders and other creepy crawlies, and if so, under what circumstances? Can I just be freaked out, or not want to get bitten (allergic)?
My personal feeling is that this kind of ethics is really a very impractical, unhelpful extension of anthrocentrism to organisms we feel to be "most like us"- as you increase the level of dissimilarity, our guilt and need for ethical response disappear.
btw I jump at opportunities for meat bc i get it so rarely- poor college student right here
11/24/09
Like any sort of moral problem, your own physical and financial limitations will affect your ability to strictly uphold your ethics. It kills me that people understand this basic concept when it comes to their other ethical beliefs, but become completely irrational when thinking about veganism -- "can vegans kill spiders even when they're allergic to spider bites?" -- it's clear that something about veganism is very off-putting to people. And if I say yes, I do either trap-and-release or kill bugs in the house when we have an invasion of them, people accuse me of being hypocritical. Yet, environmentalists sometimes drive, and feminists sometimes watch The Hills.
And vegans don't just care about animals that are "most like us." This is why they abstain from eating honey, and wearing silk. They would argue that meat-eaters, who probably aren't going to fry up Fido for Thanksgiving are guilty of placing some misplaced value on the lives of their fluffy pets over the lives of turkeys. You eat meat and use animals, and you recognize the thorny issues that can occur when we try to adopt cruelty-free lifestyles.
The difference between you and the vegan is that the vegan does not throw her hands up and say "oh well! I'd be a hypocrite if I tried to avoid all animal products, because I'd probably kill a spider every now and then, or might need insulin at some point, so I might as well just eat meat with a clean conscience!" It's not an all or nothing thing, even for vegans, which was the point of Steiner's article. Just because we can't do everything doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can do.
11/24/09
Every bit of action that someon does to reduce cruelty is helpful... there is nothing impractical about wanting to reduce pollution, curb child labor, or even, yes, reducing the needless killing of non-threatening spiders.
It is in each of our power to set limits on what we will put up with, but there is no excuse for anyone who shrugs their shoulders and does nothing to reduce cruelty. "All or nothing" arguments are often excuse to do nothing.
Animal rights is not an ego game to satitate guilt or to help creatures similar to us... it is about accepting differences and reducing needless cruelty on a broader scale. Animal rights is about changing how we relate to ourselves, each other, and the environment. It is about sustainability and consciousness, rather than ignorance and self-centered consumerism.
11/23/09
11/24/09
11/24/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
One of the most ignorant remarks I often receive is, "How do you get any protein?!"....as though meat is the only form of protein on earth. Try: scrambled eggs, all forms of dairy, garlic hummus, spicy bean dip, peanut butter sandwiches, soy (with the right sauce- sweet 'n' sour, barbeque, curry, lime and ginger, bean chili- it is delicious and filling)...and green vegetables like spinach have a huge amount of protein.
I don't eat dairy or meat, but I still consume free range eggs, honey, and I wear some animal products like wool, so I am certainly not a vegan. But I always tell people: YOU DO WHAT YOU CAN. Shame on organizations that use tactics to embarrass and humiliate people into trying to consume with more thought into being ethical. None of us is superwoman, and really, I've heard bad things about basically everything I eat, even organic, local spinach! Someone will always be out there to critcize. You do what you can!
If you're interested in even making any difference at all (since, honestly, feeling pity for the animals that are suffering does...nothing), abstaining from meat for even just one day a week DOES make a difference. Americans have become snobbishly entitled and unaware that until the age of factory farming, meat was not a daily necessity, for good reason. It's expensive and taxing to the environment to raise and slaughter living animals in mass amounts. You do NOT need meat to love how and what you eat. I've been vegetarian for almost a decade and I can recommend more specific brands, preparation techniques, recipes, etc. if anyone is interested.
Hope that helps! :)
11/23/09
Hungry vegetarians aren't doing it right.
11/23/09
I think, whatever way people try to live more ethically, is a positive thing. Whether it's being strict vegan, vegetarian, occasional meat eater, whatever. If we try to maintain some moral hierarchy then we've sort of lost the point. The point is to get more people actively involved in doing more ethical things, as a habit. Because even just not eating meat 2 days a week makes an impact. Which is what we need to focus on, not trying to make everyone do it the same way.
I don't need everyone else to be a vegetarian just because I am, nor do I feel like a superior person for doing so. Not everyone is going to stop eating meat and, so long as they don't try to force me to, I don't really care. It seems more useful, to me, to teach people how all of this stuff if interconnected and important so they'll make better decisions overall.
11/24/09
It's too bad about PETA, because I think their website is actually pretty informative, but I'd never point anyone there because of the (well-earned) PETA stigma.
11/23/09
I never realized that people actually had problems with wearing wool or oxen pulling carts. I don't.
I realize there is a grey area between "use" and "abuse", and I agree that even free-range animals might have a crappy life. But for those of you who have read "The Omnivore's Dilemma", for example, I am A-OK with how Polyface Farms operates (and as a Virginian, I eat their grass-fed beef burgers regularly).
11/24/09
I was veggie for awhile, but even then I didn't have a problem with wool. I know vegans do, but since wool isn't killing the sheep when it's collected, I had no problem with it. I think people just need to educate themselves and decide what they feel is right.
11/23/09
So, righteous vegans, please step to the left over there with the Hasidim and the MMA fighters.
11/23/09
Can any veggie jezzies point me in the right direction to established lists of products that use animals in their manufacture (I mean besides the obvious ones)?
11/23/09
11/23/09
I'm starting to sound like a broken record...
11/23/09
11/23/09
The planet isn't going to die, ultimately, she will "live on and prosper", after we have become extinct.
But, until that time our lives can be made hellish if we continue to destroy ecosystems.
If one could use a singular example, let us look to the ocean. Some people are equally as flippant about something as seemingly insignificant as Cod but because the stocks have failed to recover, due to MAN OVER-FISHING, we are seeing serious repercussions in the Marine Food Web.
Everything matters when it comes to looking at anthropomorphic activities.
If a species dies out because they are unable to adapt to what was a natural progression of an environment, that is one thing. But if the environment changed so drastically/significantly because of what MAN had contributed (in a negative way), then that is a serious situation.
Be mindful.
11/23/09
#tips
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
Factory Farming is THE worst thing that happened to the Farm Industry (and this includes farms that grow corn strictly for use as corn syrup, so I'm not just speaking to meat production)
Now the question is, how do "we" reclaim the land and make organic, free range, local farming affordable for all? And by affordable, I do not mean "cheap" because that simply is NOT doable. But, nor do people need to be eating meat every night of the week and sadly, that is what happens in a lot of poverty stricken (see Urban) areas - cheap Oscar Meyer, Hormel, Cargill, Cal-Maine, Foster Farms et al
Why buy broccoli & brown rice when bologna & Wonder Bread are cheaper?
Thank you! threeredhens, for doing what you do.
11/23/09
Good questions - I think we all need to get involved on a local level - Cooperative Extensions, agricultural associations. I am fortunate enough to live in an area that still has some functioning family farms - and I support them when I can, even if that means only buying meat the one day per week they are open, and vegetables only on market days in my city. Pay attention to your town's zoning and development laws and plans - lobby for local farmers on a local level.
I'd appreciate thoughts on this on what we can do on a national level. This issue isn't just about ethics - it's about public health.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/24/09
11/24/09
Now they are synthesized independent of animals or plants.
However, the problem for vegans is either lactose in the pills or that their viability is a result of animal testing.
11/23/09
11/23/09
OF COURSE consumer choices are limited by class and access. The system responsible for factory farming is the very same one that makes people so poor that they can only buy shit to eat. They're only separate issues if your perspective of them is very narrow.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
We are primate omnivores which is why we are so succesful and our guts really aren't geared for a herbivore diet (nor exclusively carnivore) so I was wondering about that.
11/23/09
That said i'm a meat-eater.
11/23/09
Sure, it may seem like 'picking-and-choosing,' but if you're going to tell me to do all that, and then tell me that it's nearly impossible, that's basically saying that I shouldn't even be vegetarian and should just go about consuming as much meat as the next person. And that type of thinking will only take us backwards. So no, I'm not perfect, and I can't do everything, but I never claimed to be that and at least I'm making some sort of change.
11/23/09
11/23/09