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New York, 5:18 PM
Thu Nov 26
42 posts in the last 24 hours
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09/30/09
My ex-husband was totally a rageaholic, like to the point where I think he actually looked forward to having reason to scream - maybe it was a stress reliever, maybe it was an adrenaline rush, who knows - but it shattered my nerves. I spent most of my time and energy trying to figure how not to piss him off. I also had panic attacks and stomach problems. I believe the two were related.
And now I am with someone who, when he gets angry, walks away for 20 minutes, then comes back and talks calmly and rationally. It makes a huge difference to me, as the person who does not have a rage problem. No more panic attacks, no more freaking out over housekeeping, no more worrying that he's going to kill us both because someone cut him off while we were driving.
At this point in my life, should I ever find myself single again, I would bail on any relationship with someone who was a Rager. Some people might be willing to put up with it, but not me. if a Rager needs to get angry that badly, they can do it by themselves, because I will not hang around to watch it.
09/30/09
There is a big difference between a couple arguing and an all out fight. Arguing is defending a position, fighting is just going for blood. My husband and I are both passionate about politics, and often get into debates about current events. However we aim to discuss our view without it devolving into calling each other names or even just using a rude tone of voice. If one of use starts to take things personally, we usually table the discussion until we cool down. I had to learn how to do that, since all my knowledge about fighting came from my mom, which meant that I tended to just get vicious.
On the flip side, I once dated a guy who would not argue with me AT ALL. We couldn't debate on any topic, because if I replied he would hold his hands up and say "ok, whatever you say". At first it was refreshing (after all, who doesn't like to win), but then it started to grate on my nerves. I felt like he was so afraid of fighting that he stopped listening, even if it was a topic we needed to reach a consensus on. In the end, it is all about respecting your partner, allowing them to see your side but also paying attention to their point of view.
09/30/09
I believe there is room for healthy, respectful conflict and even anger. That's something I've been trying to learn recently, as my life experiences left me extremely conflict avoidant, which is not exactly desirable either, as you know.
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There are those of us who feel like you do. I'm fairly misanthropic and yet I do have very good friends - but not a partner - and rarely feel the lack.
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Everyone tells me, "Seek therapy", but you know what? Therapy wasn't helpful the first two times, and I don't believe in three's-a-charm type of stuff. I also can't afford it.
I have methods to dealing with my problems, but the require others to comply, and if that person won't do it, I don't know how to make it stop. I know when I'm reaching the boiling point, and I tell the person I'm fighting with that I need to take a break in a few minutes, and that if we don't, I'm going to reach that point and there isn't really any going back once I'm there. My theory was that if I could figure out what I did when I was alone to calm down, I could try to use it when I felt myself getting too angry.
Well, that requires that the other person will take a break, and what if they don't? You can't force someone. It's a shitty cycle. It drives me crazy, but I feel powerless to stop it.
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Thankfully I've broken out of the pattern, and am now with a wonderful, calm, reasonable man who does not express himself via uncontrolled rage. In fact, my favorite think about him is that he can talk out issues calmly, without threatening to beat/hit/break anything or anyone. It keeps my blood pressure much lower.
09/30/09
To call rage "passionate" does the tantrum thrower far too many favors. There is a big difference between having an argument and breaking the furniture, ruining someone's self-esteem, or worse.
Rage is a selfish act that has nothing to do with "blowing off steam." Nobody feels better afterwards.
Growing up around it has left me with major anxiety issues, but happily, my husband could not be more laid-back. That was no coincidence.
09/30/09
The only person who might feel okay after a bout of rage is the person having it. Everyone else is either afraid or embarrassed.
09/30/09
When pressed against his other failures, and the failures of my own father, I would have to agree that wrath is the worst of all "sins" in a relationship, not just with a spouse, but with children as well. I live with my grandparents now, and if one of them drops a pan in the kitchen while I'm in my room, I tense up immediately out of reflex, thinking of my stepfather and his fits of anger, and my grandparents have never so much as raised their voices to their children or grandchildren in their lives. Talk about conditioning. I'm just glad I didn't normalize that behavior, and feel badly for those who have and continue to live with it.
09/30/09
The crazy thing is, most of the people really close to me are extremely hot-headed. My sister, my best friend, my father. They get angry over the stupidest, littlest things. My sister and father in particular then sulk, which to be honest, is a TERRIBLE thing to people around you. It's only kind of tangentially related, I suppose, but the whole bad mood thing is something I am going to try and avoid in a significant other. I feel like I spend a lot of time trying to cheer people up, get them out of a funk, and honestly it's emotionally draining.
09/30/09
Then I dated another guy who found my lack of anger upsetting. Conversations would go: "hey, could you maybe not do that? It sort of bothers me" "wait, that was really fucked up of me" "yeah kind of" "I'm sorry" "Ok" "why aren't you yelling at me?" "...because you apologized? it's all good" "No dammnit! I was an asshole! Tell me so!"
I could not figure it out
09/30/09
What I can't figure out is why I know such a line of reasoning is irrational, yet I feel a compulsion to act that way anyway.
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Many of my friends and family were shocked when I finally called it quits with him--from the outside he was PERFECT (tall, handsome, driven, brilliant, charming). His crazy/desperate/stalking behavior after the breakup only confirmed my decision. I still look back on that time with mixed emotions, but I think I've done a good job of not second-guessing my decision. Thank god for good friends and forums like Jezebel. Love you gals (and guys)!!
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When you're ready, I encourage you to surround yourself with a few good friends who will protect you (physically and emotionally) and keep reminding you of the reasons you're doing it. Then make a plan, write a script if you have to, and STICK TO IT.
If I could, I would give you a big hug. Good luck, and you will get through it in time.
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I am so glad you left!
09/30/09
People who don't get mad don't understand what it's like for the truly wrathful person; My skin starts to tingle all over and then it begins a burning until the good parts of my soul are expelled upwards into the air and I'm left watching a monster wreak havoc in my body. It's terrifying and to be honest, a little exhilarating. Afterwards, I feel awful though, that I got so out of control.
Unlike the husband in this article, it takes a lot to get me mad (a sequential set of events) and once I get pissed off...heaven help the person standing in front of me. (One reason why I'm terrified of having kids)
Except for a few memorable moments in recent years (bouncer at a Club, a parking attendant, etc.) I hadn't truly lost my shit in forever UNTIL I started my current relationship.
Someone is always getting hurt when we argue. Most times it's me being dragged across the parking lot because I won't let go and he's trying to get away from my crazy ass.
I swore to myself I wouldn't hit my boyfriend again after I miscalculated and punched him in the face, but as recently as two weeks ago, we were arguing, and he was in my face and before I knew it , I'd punched him in the stomach hard enough to knock the wind out of him.
I want to break up with him, but it's proving harder than I thought.
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Having been sheltered my whole childhood I went on a binge of guys. I dated/hooked up with wide variety of personalities and I always took notes of what I did and did not like. I learned that no guy or human is picture perfect so I had to look for the guy's flaws and ask myself..Is this what I want and can tolerate? Needless to say I became very picky as to who I dated and my guy friends would tell other guys they had no chance...I wasn't easy!
Tolerance was very strong in my mind because of an elderly couple I was close friends with as a kid. The couple fought occasionally and openly (verbally never physical)...it was somewhat humorous and sad sometimes when they did, but these fights were valid because it concerned his health and safety. Whenever he talked about marriage either one-one-one or in a sermon (elder in the church BTW) he spoke of tolerance. "You have to tolerate the one you love, it's easy to just quit on that person but you'll find yourself quitting on everyone for everything."
So that's also why forgiveness is essential for relationships to work. My tolerance happened to be infidelity and guess what...that's exactly what my bf did that broke our relationship up for 6 mos. I can say our relationship is much better now even though we've been through some hurtful stupid stuff. Some people have judged it and some people are surprised. But I've always been a private person, so when that comes up in conversation they are in disbelief because we are a genuinely happy couple.
"I would never go back", they say. I tell them that's funny....because I thought the same way. Every relationship is a case-by case and no one can tell anybody anything except that if you feel threatened and are abused you need to leave. There is always a straw for when enough is enough. Physical and Mental Abuse is Not Tolerable!
09/30/09
Nevertheless, Barnes' husband seems intolerable to me (at least pre-treatment). But it seems that his issues are mostly about him and the way he deals with stress or adversity. It doesn't sound like the rage is a function of their marriage (though obviously their marriage, and Barnes herself, are greatly affected). I believe that motivated people have the capacity to change their behavior, whereas a toxic relationship that incites rage in partners is unlikely to ever right itself, because patterns with others are incredibly hard to break.
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anger isn't necessarily a bad thing when it's used at the right time and place. there's a difference between getting angry when it counts and going ballistic over every. single. thing. the worst is when people who do have a temper don't recognize that they actually do have a temper. i know i have a temper, and i don't think i could be with someone who also has a temper...i need a ying to my yang. but some folks who are calm don't have a problem with us more temperamental folks.
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i've spoken sternly but calmly to people while standing completely still and had them say "don't raise your voice to me" when the pitch and loudness of my voice hasn't changed.
09/30/09
But cursing out old ladies on the street? Breaking sprinklers? Breaking TABLES while you are eating on them? No. That is not healthy. Not at all.
09/30/09
I hate anger. I really think it's the most toxic emotion. :(
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When we have disagreements, it's not about scoring points or winning or proving anything. Instead, we are so committed to each other that we swallow our pride and we speak to each other openly and honestly.
I'd much rather have it this way than with all of the screaming and yelling and slamming of doors. It makes me feel like we have a good chance at having a successful long-term relationship.