Jezebel 
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New York, 6:26 PM
Sun Nov 22
22 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/18/09
What about men? If this leave is no longer related to maternity, why would it apply only to women?
And along those lines, what about paternity leave? Research shows how important it is for the father to bond to their new child but men are still expected to be breadwinners, not parents. #maternityleave
10/18/09
10/18/09
what you propose sounds dangerously like negative eugenics, that only certain types and classes of people are worthy of childbearing. you may be fortunate enough to have 200,000 dollars squirrelled away, but many working- and middle-class families do no, but they shouldn't be denied the right to procreate. the logic behind government assistance to families is not to foot to bill of selfish, unqualified people who dare procreate despite humble means, but to invest in future citizenry. #maternityleave
10/18/09
Procreation shouldn't be a privilege. It is a right to have a family. That's what choice is all about.
Feliciag's comment was so ignorant! We are already -- all of us -- "footing the bill for women who choose to breed" by funding education, children's health care initiatives, and the like. The problem is that parents are footing society's bills too, and they're being shortchanged. They give us new people, an invaluable resource, and we don't give them enough time, money, or resources in exchange. Canada's programs simply get closer to a true valuation of what mothers and fathers contribute to society.
P.S. Arguments about overpopulation simply do not apply to this country. India, yes. Indonesia, probably. The U.S.? Nope. We still have plenty of room and resources. And no one had better suggest that we just mass-adopt a bunch of Indians or Indonesians or whomever. Just don't even. #maternityleave
10/18/09
10/19/09
Do you not have health insurance, either? If so, you're already footing the bill for people having kids just like they foot the bill when you go to the doctor. #maternityleave
10/19/09
10/18/09
10/17/09
I'm still praying for health insurance. #maternityleave
10/18/09
10/17/09
I think there should be lots more flexible leave for parents and non-parents.
But yeah, don't tell me maternity leave is a vacation. I would have been LESS tired going to work than feeding, feeding, feeding constantly while trying to recover from a damn spinal headache. Feh. #maternityleave
10/17/09
I hope that the U.S. can move more towards a program like this.
It is one of the main reasons my husband and I chose to have our baby in Canada rather than the U.S. (he is American and I am Canadian) - the other reason being the cost of actually having your baby is covered by the national health care plan. We basically pay for our parking fee, and that's it.
I am utterly confused as to why this proposed sabbatical, which is what it is, is even being referred to as a "maternity leave" - or why, for that matter, it would only be extended to females? It seems like a perposterous idea that would only set women back in the workplace, giving the impression that women are weaker and need a break from their jobs. The reality is we could all use a break from our jobs! #maternityleave
10/17/09
Sure sounds like what I've used my vacation time for...you know, recovering from surgery, taking care of my husband when he had surgery, recuperating from the flu, hosting and organizing a family reunion or convention (time of stress, for sure!)...all of those things fall under "paid time off" (aka vacation time) at my work. Personally, I do think it's ridiculous, not to mention sexist, that women who choose to have kids get a "freebie" paid leave that will never be available to me, as a childfree woman, much less my husband. Even if I had kids, he'd never get to take any paid leave for it, short of burning out his vacation leave.
I agree with other commenters that there should be a provision for a sabbatical built into employment, but I think that should be it. If you choose to use your sabbatical for childbirth, that's fine. If you choose to instead use your vacation time, that's fine, too. A routine paid sabbatical is a far more fair way to handle necessary mid-length leave, whatever the reason.
I know I'm in the minority on this, but I just don't think pregnancy deserves special treatment versus all the myriad of other deserving reasons to need time away from work. #maternityleave
10/17/09
Childfree people often get the shaft at work anyway, because parents tend to call out so much more often anyway due to their childrens' illnesses and school events, with the childfree having to take up the slack.
And where was I when they started giving away six months--or a year (??)--of maternity leave? When I had my only child 13 years ago (before I became aware of environmental issues), I got only one week before her birth (I was entitled to four, but because she came early, I was jacked out of the other three), and had to return to my full-time job when she was exactly six weeks old. In my 21 years in the workforce, this is the longest period of time off I've ever had. Be assured, however, that I arranged for someone to be available to stay with my child whenever she happened to be ill well before she was conceived...I didn't want to be THAT coworker! #maternityleave
10/18/09
10/19/09
10/17/09
What is with this Calvinist culture, anyway? #maternityleave
10/17/09
Maternity leave is no party, and the responsibilities don't go away after a new parent comes back to work. But if people are under the impression that being off work for three months without pay and with health insurance expenses is what will make them happy, then as far as I'm concerned, they're free to go ahead with that. #maternityleave
10/17/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
What's wrong with just conceptualizing one's working life as needing a few months off at some point in the forty to fifty years of straight working? #maternityleave
10/17/09
10/17/09
Why do we designate some personal commitments and "time off" as worthy or beneficial to not just themselves, but society at large - but not others? Not writing a book (as someone mentioned), or taking classes, or helping others in their lives, or other investments that require time and energy? Why do some get paid (or unpaid leave) to cement these commitments, but not others?
I do consider myself a feminist, but above all, I believe in equality. I think that if some people are allowed this time to be busy with personal commitments (and yes, I know that motherhood and the stresses after childbirth are hard work), this should apply to all. Pregnant women shouldn't be privy to "extra" time, we should all be allowed "personal time" - time accrued, depending on how long we've stayed with a company or business. Paid for all, or paid for none.
Having children, taking care, and bonding with them after childbirth are not the only benefits that can come from taking personal leave. Childless women, and men, should have the same equal opportunity, without fear of having their job terminated or filled. If a woman works for a company for 8 years and takes a six month sabbatical or personal leave to take care of her newborn, all employees should be allowed the same opportunities to pursue commitments important to them. I don't hate, nor am I jealous of women who take maternity leave. I simply see it as a personal choice to take care of something valuable to you. Shouldn't we all be granted the same?
Sorry for the ramble... sure, this may sound harsh and probably unfavorable or insulting to someone, but it's my two cents, and I'm sure I'm not alone. #maternityleave
10/18/09
My company gives us PTO (paid time off) - that's for sickness, mental health days, whatever you want to use them for. "Maternity leave" could really be something like "Short Term Leave" to use however you want. That way it's fair for everyone.
I'm sick of being the one who has to pick up the slack, because I don't have children. I need to invent a fake kid so I can leave work early to go pick her up.
10/18/09
Maternity leave serves a very valid purpose. It already IS fair to everyone. #maternityleave
10/18/09
I never thought of maternity leave as a vacation but having a baby has nothing to do with your job, its your personal life.
I choose to not have children, therefore why are the things I choose do, travel[?] less important than someone choosing to have a child?
Everyone should get a choice to leave and come back in allotted amount of time. #maternityleave
10/18/09
I just have a feeling it would backfire somehow. #maternityleave
10/18/09
We all live in a world of choices and compromises. Having a child is no more or less valuable than someone willing to use their time off/sabbatical/what not for something else. I don't see having kids as something that should be an exception. We all have choices and compromises to make in balancing our personal and professional lives. #maternityleave
10/18/09
The other way to help combat this kind of discrimination is obviously for new mothers and new fathers to both get a lot of time off work to spend with their new baby. This also stops women being the only ones likely to ask for sabbatical/maternity/paternity leave. #maternityleave
10/18/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
For what it's worth, at my old employer a former co-worker of mine was able to successfully apply for two weeks unpaid leave to care for her sick mother. She had already exhausted her vacation and up to a week of her sick time, and I was under the impression that the FMLA was what made her leave possible.
10/17/09
10/17/09
I'm old enough to have worked before the FMLA was enacted (thankfully before I had children of my own). I remember new mothers coming back to work three weeks after giving birth, which I think is crazy having gone through childbirth myself, or mothers not coming back to work at all. Unpaid or not, it's at least something.
And congratulations your impending adoption. #maternityleave
10/17/09
10/18/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
If having a child is a choice, then why should others who chose not to have children have to suffer because of others' choices? We already do. When one member of staff is out, I have more work; why should I suffer because of that choice?
Admittedly, that "choice" furthers the species, but it's not a choice I made; still, I suffer negative consequences because of it. I think it's only fair that I get time off too, and I wouldn't classify that request as "entitled whining" any more than I'd say that someone who chooses to have children and chooses to have all the subsequent benefits and drawbacks (including every time that one needs to leave early because of a sick child, a play/soccer game/school event, or graduation) as "entitled whining" . . . I already have to cover for that person's choice. #maternityleave
10/18/09
From what I've seen, most of my colleagues who are parents are bustin' their asses every day to balance work and home. And a few have come back from mat leave only to have their childcare arrangements abruptly fall through. Imagine that: you have a 3 month old baby, just get back to a job you love, and one week into it your nanny phones you up to quit. Whether one has kids or not, I think you have to be pretty callous not to understand how stressful that must be, especially in a society that is unforgiving of any distractions from work.
The tone of your comment suggests that the only "choice" is to just stay at home with the baby once you've chosen to have one (and hope your husband can/will support you for life!), so no one else has to "pay" for your choices. But I don't accept that notion.
Why not place the blame squarely where it should be: on a society which is so focused on the bottom line that it encourages and rewards companies that hire the bare minimum of employees, pay them as little as they can get away with, and encourages them to take as little time off as possible. We would ALL be better off by demanding equitable, generous policies that encourage our health and lives outside of work. That goes for men, women, parents and non-parents alike. #maternityleave
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
So, I think the first step is really saying "enough" to the workplace culture that constantly demands more time & effort from its workers, lest they find themselves in the unemployment lines.
Does that mean that the employer or government should bear all the cost of it? No, sometimes the employee should depending on how "voluntary" the need is. The place I work does a pretty good job of this, not that they're perfect or can't do more to improve.
But I think the basic idea is there: work-life balance is crucial, and so work expectations and sick/vacation policies are structured so that no one is getting worked to the bone every day. That's the basic piece of what you "earn" by being an employee.
Then, people with qualifying medical/family needs "earn" a bit more -- paid mat leave, etc.
And people who are strong performers should "earn" even more benefits: additional paid or unpaid time off to pursue their own projects/travel, etc. #maternityleave
10/18/09
Your argument is sort of like libertarians complaining about taxes. I've heard people say things like "I don't care if the money goes to maintain roads/dams/highways/. I prefer having more money over having passable roads." And the response to that, pretty much, is 'too bad'. You are getting value for money. You put in extra time and work, and you get out human beings who will one day make the robots who will work the jobs that pay for your Social Security check. #maternityleave
10/18/09
While I'm proud of my breederly self for avoiding namecalling thus far, I cannot resist saying that that might be a better use of your time than complaining on the internet that people want to use unpaid time off to ice their vagina stitches.
10/18/09
That said, I was trying to assert that having personal time off, even if one doesn't have children, is a solid notion and doesn't constitute "entitled whining," which was my own misreading of sybann's comment. (Sybann clarified below.) What I meant was that for childless people to want time off is no more entitled whining than for parents to want time off, though the former should not be classified under "family" or "maternity" leave. #maternityleave
10/18/09
Rather, I'm suggesting that a "stress leave" or "personal leave" should be available for childless workers and parents. Just as I already cover for other people's choices -- species-furthering as they may be* -- I think it's duly fair that they cover for mine: such as taking the time off community service, to write a book, to just take care of myself, etc. And I wouldn't be opposed to covering the slack for a parent who wants to take stress leave as well.
*And let's be honest. No one says, "I'm going to have a child to further the species." They choose to have children because they want to have children. #maternityleave
10/18/09
Secondly, I don't think I'm amiss in requesting, as a childless worker, that I get some form of personal leave -- I don't think that any system in which people work for 50 years straight with two to three weeks off annually is a healthy structure, regardless of your number of offspring (or lack thereof). I would also think that having a similar option available to parents would be only fair. This model -- where one has the option of maternity/paternity leave and personal leave, as needed -- lessens the odds of workers burning out and likely, increases the quality of individual and group work by decreasing stress levels over all.
Moreover, I wasn't trying to denigrate the time you spend "icing your vagina stitches." Nor was I implying that said time was time spent in some kind of Shangri-la, where everything is perfect and dandy. I was merely suggesting that my coworkers with kids have made choices that affect my life, and it doesn't end when their six months is up. (Based, again, on a misinterpretation of the "entitled whining" comment.)
If you want to do the "I'm not calling you a name, but I'm going to make a snide comment anyway' game, have at it. But I'd much prefer not to, with my childless free time. #maternityleave
10/18/09
10/18/09
Look, this is the major conflict of my adult life - the death of the careers of all the women I know the second they exercised their perfect right to pop out a sprog, no matter how determined they were to keep working, the way that nothing at all happened to their husband's careers, and the crushing knowledge that I want a family and this society makes that directly oppositional to self-development for women. I'm sorry I've annoyed you with my sarcasm, but this is a serious problem, and people who treat it like mothers are trying to get away with something by expecting other people to get the phone while they deal with a concussed six-year-old make me so upset.
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
What I get worked up about is that so often the debate is framed as a zero-sum game: parents get this, therefore non-parents are getting screwed. I'm not reacting specifically to your post here, but also to things some of my friends have said or that I've seen in the media. I actually believe that both parents and non-parents are aided by agitating for a common cause.
When only parents get time off or flex time, the end result is Mommy Tracking. And only people who can/want to work 60+ hours a week will get ahead in their careers. When "working like a dog" is not considered a compliment, everyone benefits from a more equal playing field and time to do other things (be they family commitments, creative pursuits, or volunteer work).
Not to imply that it's Shangri-La either, but my husband is from a country where *everyone* works fairly sane hours and has at least 5 weeks vacation a year. (In fact, he got an extra week of vacation this year because we got married, and that's considered an important thing that requires extra time off, imagine that!) Plus your job has to be held if you're on extended leave for medical, parental, or stress reasons -- oh and the govt pays your salary for that time. On top of that, childcare is subsidized & state regulated, so one doesn't need to worry about where to get quality childcare, quit work because their salary can't cover daycare, or offload work to handle an emergency child-care situation. Finally, hours of schools/daycares are in line with work hours, so no one has to worry about how to re-jigger their work schedule to drop off/pick up little Susie from school. And because so many mothers work, little Susie's ballet recital isn't scheduled smack in the middle of the workday. End result: mothers who can balance work and career without guilt, fathers who have more time with their kids, no mommy tracking, non-parents who get to travel or pursue their non-work passions and don't risk getting fired over it! It's a win-win-win, in my opinion. So I feel like we ALL ought to be agitating for that. #maternityleave
10/18/09
10/19/09