I almost had a movie ruined for me recently by a gaggle of fourteen year olds. They insisted on not only talking, but having a non-stop conversation going at non-whisper volume the ENTIRE TIME.
The movie was very, very quiet, and I couldn't hear what the characters were saying. I shot them nasty glances, and they'd shut up for about eight seconds. I finally got sick of it, and turned to say, "Guys, honestly---that is SO distracting. If you want to have a conversation, you should just leave."
They were totally stunned and looked like I'd just executed a puppy in front of them. Not to get all "Kids Today," but it does seem like there are some people (regardless of age) who never seemed to have had to learn boundaries. They just think that any behavior they wish to engage in is also okay for a public forum. "It's my right!" etc.
Yes. We all have rights. But we also have responsibilities to be good citizens. Watch as much porn as you want, but don't shove it in my face in a public space. You want to have a noisy, annoying conversation? Fine. But don't expect me to sit there and let you do it comfortably. The sense of entitlement is mind-boggling. #etiquette
gotta love the "i HAVE to face forward" folks on transit. i also love some of the new cars that screw them over something awful.
and yes, i know for many it's a whole 'i get car sick' thing, but when the train is crowded, you can either sit the wrong way or stand the entire time. i'll take sitting the wrong way. besides, the train doesn't sell standing room only seats. #etiquette
I get and agree with the article's premise and what everyone's been saying about things that are rude and should be stopped (what is the POINT of watching porn in public? Wouldn't it just give you blue balls?) but what about when people claim you're being rude just because they disagree with you? I had this problem all the time with my ex-boyfriend's family and co-workers where I simply would not suffer their racist and homophobic comments-- not in an aggressive way, I'd simply be like "Well, I don't agree with that" or whatever and excuse myself, but he would get SO UPSET with me for, I guess, not keeping my mouth shut or pretending to be okay with what they were saying, and call me impolite. I can never decide if he was right and I should've just stayed quiet-- I guess that would've been the 'polite' thing to do-- but I really feel like it's important to confront people like that, and stand up for what you believe in... I don't know. The South is fucked up. #etiquette
I've watched Brotherhood (a showtime show) on my laptop w/headphones while traveling. At the slightest hint of naughtiness, I made the window verrrrrrrry small. And if I sat next to kids, I didn't watch it, period. I'm socially inept as hell, but even I get shit like that. #etiquette
Latoya, the Acela is my favorite place to observe humanity at its worst. There are some snobby and/or ignorant people that think you can do that on the regional. Those people have never ridden business class.
As I read this, I was reminded of the best lesson I ever learned, the philosophy of the culture and neighborhood I grew up in. And that is: Mind'yer Business. #etiquette
Speaking of inappropriate cell phone usage, i'll never forget this kid who's phone rang in the middle of a midterm in a class of about 300 people. Yeah, he picked it up. Not just rude but bold. #etiquette
I love Judith Miller/Miss Manners and am using her book to prepare a group of college kids from MN spend the summer living in DC without embarassing our university.
I spent last summer in DC so I know some of the things to mention (pole leaners must die), but I would love to get some additional advice from DC natives. Or dwellers of other large cities. What say you Jezzies? #etiquette
@highjump: I think one of the biggest things to remember when visiting a city is to just be considerate of other people by not crowding public areas. You (not you personally, using the 2nd person here) may be sightseeing, but plenty of other people in the area are on their way to work/school/what-have-you and are just doing their thing. I totally understand that visitors are in an unfamiliar situation and need to get their bearings, but this does not mean they have to spread out across the whole sidewalk. Same thing with escalators (staying to the right except to pass, which seems to be a novel idea to some). This is why I stay away from Faneuil Hall/Quincy Market. Well, that and the fratty d-bags who come out at night :P #etiquette
@highjump: Metro Escalator Golden Rule: Stand on the right, walk on the left! Also no talking on cellphones early in the morning or on a full car. #etiquette
@highjump: The golden rule in DC: Stand to the right, walk to the left. This goes on metro, sidewalks, museums.
Do not stop at the bottom of stairs or escalators. Move out of the way if you need to regroup and figure out where you're going.
This is a pet peeve, and I know it's hard in big groups, but on the metro, try to keep conversation tones moderate during rush hour. People are just trying to get to work without a headache.
Obey the walk signs in the crosswalks. Do not cross with a large group if you don't have time to do so-- you will get honked at, and you will cause a traffic jam.
@all: Thanks for the tips. I will be telling them all of this, I never had anger management issues until I had to be on the DC metro for an hour each day for 14 weeks. This crop of wee interns better behave, if any of them end up on the DC interns blog I will make sure they pay.
Some questions: What happens to escalator etiquette when the escalator is broken? I would think faster people to the left, but this is soooo not been my experience. Also, please elaborate on acceptable blackberry/cellphone behavior. I found that people in the DC metro area had a very different sense of work life balance than Minnesotans do. Is Blackberry on the table during dinner really acceptable? Also, where is the line for networking douchbaggery. I would be talking to someone at some random happy hour for .5 seconds when they would whip out their card and start talking about how awesome they were. It is all about who you know, but how soon is too soon to put on the "I would like you to get me a job one day" kind of pressure? #etiquette
@highjump: Escalator when broken is a free for all. It's rough for people who have heavy bags (or a bad knee like me) to do that quickly and only take up one lane on the "stairs".
The networking vibe is intense in DC. And social events aren't really social unless you're just with friends. It is still considered unacceptable to answer a call at the table in a restaurant at dinner, but lunches are fair game. Every lunch is a working lunch. People will be full out answering email in the middle of a sit-down lunch. Just the nature of a 24 hour work day. Most of the downtown restaurants encourage a little more decorum in the evenings (thank god). #etiquette
@highjump: This DC native thanks you so much for even being aware a group of college kids not from the area might need to be given a few tips... #etiquette
@formergr: No problem. I was a DC intern transplant last summer, and although I'm sure I did some dumb things the idocy of some people just boggles the mind. Some of the students going will never have been on a metro/subway before, and damn it they WILL stand to the right if I have anything to say about it. #etiquette
My advice for networking happy hours is to be lowkey. Go into them with the attitude of, maybe I'll meet a few cool people who I will run into again at some point. I HATE nametag surfing, it's VERY obvious, and most people can see right through it. #etiquette
@7states: I love the phrase 'nametage surfing' and will be using it soon to discourage this practice. Career services at this school is printing an insane 150 business cards for the interns (they're there for only 10 weeks or so!) so I'm sure they will hand them out to anyone breathing. I can just picture them walking into a happy hour now, tossing a handful of business cards into the air and screaming "I am an intern for (marginally significant organization) I am SUPER IMPORTANT!" #etiquette
@highjump: Unfortunately I have to say the Blackberry/cellphone on the table is acceptable, even in the evening. I wouldn't say it's okay to answer it or actively check your e-mail, but the idea is there of always being able to keep one eye on it and take it outside if something comes up. The bar for networking bullshit is so freaking low, people will consider anything acceptable if enough people do it, but having a group of polite, relaxed kids will make them stand out from the rabid pack. #etiquette
@highjump: I actually do think Blackberry on the table during dinner works in DC, assuming you will actually be receiving something more important via phone than your actual dinner companion. That is, if you will have launch a missile, save a life, protect choice with a last minute vote on the Hill, etc. (which was a possibility for some friends of mine). Otherwise, it goes away and on silent. #etiquette
Funny, I just had a conversation with my b/f about his behavior in restaurants. I have never been a waitress but I have friends who have, so I am invariably nice to them. I say "please" and "thank you," I smile and look them in the eye. He, on the other hand, is all business. When he places his order, he is to the point, almost to the point of abrupt and dismissive. He also hardly ever looks them in the eye. Sometimes he's so stand-offish I've observed the waiter get confused or nervous, like they did something wrong already and just can't figure out what yet.
I consider his behavior borderline rude, he says he's just not one for small talk. I say small talk greases the wheel of life and makes these little public exchanges go just a wee bit smoother and makes people feel momentarily happy (or at least, not angry). With so much free-floating rudeness around, why not be the one nice person someone encounters? If nothing else, it's good karma. #etiquette
@willwriteforfood: I completely agree. I'm one of those people who tries to be very nice to waitstaff, cashiers, etc. (had both of those jobs in the past). and it irks me when I'm with someone who is rude/abrupt to people in the service industry, or doesn't tip well. I've been embarrassed to eat out with people who ask for unreasonable things. I'm not talking about food allergies or special needs or anything legitimate like that; I once went out with a friend who tried to quibble with a server about the number of items she could get in an appetizer, and if she could get a reduced rate for ordering fewer than what was on the menu. Shit like that mortifies me. #etiquette
@willwriteforfood: I have had that conversation before. I hate people who are rude to servers. I think it says so much about a person who is openly rude to someone in a "lower" position. Not that your boyfriend is that person, but it reminded me.
A "friend" of mine used to endlessly embarrass me when we would go out to dinner. The server would forget that he wanted water with no ice, or would not cook his steak the right way, or whathaveyou, and he would always throw a shit fit, bitching them out under his breath and hissing. One time, we were at a swanky restaurant (which we ended up leaving because I accidentally dropped the f-bomb in front of 3 6-year-olds, which I was embarrassed beyond belief and apologized for my drunken slip-up), and he ordered his whiskey "neat" and the server actually got it. Thank god, because he was going to be an asshole if it came back on the rocks. :( We are no longer friends, thank god.
My friend, a different one (jeez, I'm just full of boring anecdotes today!), can't make small talk at all. I think we all need to learn to do it to some extent. It's just polite. We all know that Cash Register Worker doesn't give a shit about your day, she's asking because she has to. Be nice! It's not so hard. I make small talk with anyone who talks to me, really, and I find that it gets me better service, anyway. #etiquette
@boxspelunker: Wow, your ex-friend sounds like a joy to have around. My bf is not that bad. He's not rude to waiters, even if they suck, he just seems to lack the ability to make small talk, which doesn't come across as shy (which he is), it just appears to be cold (which he isn't). He is trying to be friendlier to strangers but it's not easy for him. My theory is that because he has a physical disability that's very obvious, all his life he has cultivated a lone-guy air as a defense.
I totally agree with the idea that being gratuitously rude to waiters is a glaring sign that someone is just an asshole in general. #etiquette
@willwriteforfood: The conversation you have with your b/f. My husband and I get into this all the time.
Him: I LOATHE when people ask how I am when they say hello. Like "Hi! How are you?" I HATE that.
Me: Why?
Him: Because no one ever means it.
Me: Some people do.
Him: Most don't.
Me: What would you prefer people say?
Him: Nothing. Let's just acknowledge that we don't care about each other.
Me: Yes. Ignoring and not caring about one another is how we as a society have moved past screeching primates.
Insert any variation of that conversation into my life at least once every other month. #etiquette
@willwriteforfood: Except for the physical disability part, your bf's interactions with servers and the like describes how I used to be to a tee. I was definitely shy, but also just didn't "get" the need for small talk and pleasantries and the like.
I've gotten much better at it with effort and practice, but in my head it still just seems like it would be so much more efficient to cut to the chase and give my order without all the other expected social customs.
Though I have learned that there really is a benefit to it all (beyond the self-serving ones), and it's nice to make people happy or at least have a slightly less crappy day.
@willwriteforfood: Sometimes servers are *really* rude/ just not doing their job, and in that case I get a bit cold and dismissive. For instance, placing an order for three things, getting half of our order (coffee and cream with no spoon or sugar, etc.), then watching the waitress flirt with a waiter for 10 minutes before she bothers to get the rest of our order? Ugh. Right in front of us too! There is another waitress at that restaurant who drives me nuts as well. She is so abrupt and glares at me all the time, and other sort of subtle things. But I'm not really sure how to deal with it, so I try and ignore it. I still tip well because I don't want to take that stuff so personally but... it's so hard not to! #etiquette
@camera_obscura: if the service is bad I leave either a tiny tip or no tip. It's a little bit Reservoir Dogs-ish, but a tip is basically a reward for doing a good job, not a requirement. Besides, it sounds like those waitresses weren't even doing the basic requirements of their job so in my mind that eliminates the "requirement" of a tip. #etiquette
@willwriteforfood: He was. Oh, he was. It took me years to realize that if he can't treat a server with respect, he is not nice. I don't know why it took me so long, but it sure did.
My other friend is very similar to your boyfriend - just comes off as cold. He doesn't have a disability, but he just reads as "unfriendly". Once you get to know him, he loosens up, but it takes awhile, and small talk makes him so uncomfortable. #etiquette
@madeofawesome: Haha, sorry! I'm sure that some people do :) But that adage is true. Thankfully, Ex-Friend got me to see it in action, and made me really get it. #etiquette
@jianna: Sorry, but that's not how it works. A tip is customary unless the service ends in fisticuffs. It's not a "reward" at all. Servers frequently make below minimum wage because tip is supposed to bring that number back up. It sounds like you've never had a service job before. #etiquette
@GeneKuya: To be fair it depends on the country. I always tip at least 10% on meals in the States but I confess sometimes I forget to tip bartenders, because I grew up in Europe where that's just not done. Here in the UK I'm comfortable leaving only a tiny tip if the service was really dreadful (and I mean dreadful by British standards--we're talking waiting for over an hour to pay, or proper rudeness from the staff). #etiquette
@jianna: A tip is definitely a requirement. If you leave me nothing, it's like I'm paying for you to eat, since servers get taxed automatically for the tips they should make (which is about 15%). Bad service, I understand, but seriously. If you want to continue getting good service, be a good tipper, and leave at least 15-20%. Anyone in the service industry can tell you they don't get paid enough for the shit they have to put up with on the daily. #etiquette
@GeneKuya: My sister is a server so I tend to tip above 15% cos I know they live on that. However, with me, you start at 15% and can go up or down. If you're horrible to me and mess everything up, you get a very reduced tip and I'll probably talk to your manager (but I never DONT tip--I want them to know how I feel by my reduced tip). You don't get your 15% just by showing up at work--you have to work for it. If you're goofing off and talking when we need refills, or you forget about us for 45 minutes, you're not going to get 15%. Sorry, you're not entitled to it. However, if you're lovely and prompt, or even if you're having a horrific day (people at the next table being horrible, it being insanely busy, etc), and are apolegtic and at least manage a bad situation, I'll probably give you more than 15% because you're going above and beyond. 15% isn't a RIGHT. otherwise they should just tack it onto the bill, or better yet, pay wait staff a living wage. #etiquette
@Acolyte: If the cashier doesn't talk to you, then yeah, no problem! I guess I was mostly referring to the ones that do, you know? If no one talks to me, I rarely say anything other than "thank you" or "can I use this bag instead of the plastic one" or something, and I see no issue there. #etiquette
You know, I'm not gonna win any etiquette awards, and I feel fairly jaded in matters of rudeness, but I am actually appalled that anybody feels that it's kosher to watch porn in public. IT'S PORN. SAVE THAT SHIT FOR YOUR PRIVATE BUSINESS. #etiquette
I'll admit, I'm not always the best cellphone user, and I could be a lot better. But one place where I definitely draw the line is talking on the cell phone in the bathroom. Seriously, it's the damn bathroom--I'd like to pee without hearing your conversation. Do your friends and family mind that they might be able to hear you doing your business? Also, it's a small, enclosed space that makes the conversation even louder (and more annoying). I get that sometimes calls happen, but that's just gross--and I feel like a captive audience. #etiquette
A few years ago, I was in a long line at WalMart. When they finally opened another register, the mad dash to get into that line commenced. I was tired and in a hurry, and didn't realize that I had managed to get there before a lady who had been ahead of me in the original line.
Nothing was said until AFTER I paid for my items. As the cashier handed me my receipt, the lady directly behind me said, "Well, I hope you are happy now, having cut in front of me."
I just looked at her, blinked, and then, instead of allowing my lifelong, well-trained, "Oh, I'm so sorry!" response to come out, simply replied, "No remorse."
She actually sputtered. "Oh, well, that's NICE! You have a nice evening!" (said with no small amount of sarcasm).
I was already walking away and just smiled over my shoulder and said, "You, too!"
I'm not *proud* of this story...oh, hell, actually, I am. #etiquette
See, though, I think some people are deliberately rude because they enjoy the attention of being called out. It's sort of a teenage power thing -- I feel I have no power in other areas of my life so I'm damned well going to saunter slowly across the street in front of your car and see what you do about it. #etiquette
@jfwlucy: I feel that way about the loud corpo-speak middle managers have on their cell phones. They aren't actually important, but feel that if other people around them think they're important, they've "won". #etiquette
@jfwlucy: Oh, absolutely. They want you to say something. And as they're acting like badly-behaved children, I'll treat them as such and ignore their asinine antics. No sense giving them the attention they're aching for when they're behaving like that, eh? #etiquette
@jfwlucy: This has made me the queen of withering looks, looks that say I see through you into your pitiful, powerless innards. It works half the time! #etiquette
@meritxell: an erotic life: Oh, YEAH! It took me an embarrassingly long time to realize that for some people, their entire lives consist of oneupmanship in every area imaginable. Clothes, cars, the latest slang, the newest nightspots, promotions at work, seeing the latest movies first, the corner office., coming up with the most obscure film reference or being able to recall baseball stats . . .
Honestly, seriously, I find it all very heartbreaking, and I would rather die than live that way. #etiquette
@camera_obscura: I wish I had a look like that -- hey, wait a minute - - I can feel your eye power coming through the monitor ---- eek . . . eek . . . (dwindles away into tiny glowing ember) . . . #etiquette
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The movie was very, very quiet, and I couldn't hear what the characters were saying. I shot them nasty glances, and they'd shut up for about eight seconds. I finally got sick of it, and turned to say, "Guys, honestly---that is SO distracting. If you want to have a conversation, you should just leave."
They were totally stunned and looked like I'd just executed a puppy in front of them. Not to get all "Kids Today," but it does seem like there are some people (regardless of age) who never seemed to have had to learn boundaries. They just think that any behavior they wish to engage in is also okay for a public forum. "It's my right!" etc.
Yes. We all have rights. But we also have responsibilities to be good citizens. Watch as much porn as you want, but don't shove it in my face in a public space. You want to have a noisy, annoying conversation? Fine. But don't expect me to sit there and let you do it comfortably. The sense of entitlement is mind-boggling. #etiquette
11/17/09
and yes, i know for many it's a whole 'i get car sick' thing, but when the train is crowded, you can either sit the wrong way or stand the entire time. i'll take sitting the wrong way. besides, the train doesn't sell standing room only seats. #etiquette
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As I read this, I was reminded of the best lesson I ever learned, the philosophy of the culture and neighborhood I grew up in. And that is: Mind'yer Business. #etiquette
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I spent last summer in DC so I know some of the things to mention (pole leaners must die), but I would love to get some additional advice from DC natives. Or dwellers of other large cities. What say you Jezzies? #etiquette
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Do not stop at the bottom of stairs or escalators. Move out of the way if you need to regroup and figure out where you're going.
This is a pet peeve, and I know it's hard in big groups, but on the metro, try to keep conversation tones moderate during rush hour. People are just trying to get to work without a headache.
Obey the walk signs in the crosswalks. Do not cross with a large group if you don't have time to do so-- you will get honked at, and you will cause a traffic jam.
Related: Watch out for buses.
Hope you guys have a great trip! #etiquette
11/16/09
Some questions: What happens to escalator etiquette when the escalator is broken? I would think faster people to the left, but this is soooo not been my experience. Also, please elaborate on acceptable blackberry/cellphone behavior. I found that people in the DC metro area had a very different sense of work life balance than Minnesotans do. Is Blackberry on the table during dinner really acceptable? Also, where is the line for networking douchbaggery. I would be talking to someone at some random happy hour for .5 seconds when they would whip out their card and start talking about how awesome they were. It is all about who you know, but how soon is too soon to put on the "I would like you to get me a job one day" kind of pressure? #etiquette
11/16/09
The networking vibe is intense in DC. And social events aren't really social unless you're just with friends. It is still considered unacceptable to answer a call at the table in a restaurant at dinner, but lunches are fair game. Every lunch is a working lunch. People will be full out answering email in the middle of a sit-down lunch. Just the nature of a 24 hour work day. Most of the downtown restaurants encourage a little more decorum in the evenings (thank god). #etiquette
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My advice for networking happy hours is to be lowkey. Go into them with the attitude of, maybe I'll meet a few cool people who I will run into again at some point. I HATE nametag surfing, it's VERY obvious, and most people can see right through it. #etiquette
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I consider his behavior borderline rude, he says he's just not one for small talk. I say small talk greases the wheel of life and makes these little public exchanges go just a wee bit smoother and makes people feel momentarily happy (or at least, not angry). With so much free-floating rudeness around, why not be the one nice person someone encounters? If nothing else, it's good karma. #etiquette
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A "friend" of mine used to endlessly embarrass me when we would go out to dinner. The server would forget that he wanted water with no ice, or would not cook his steak the right way, or whathaveyou, and he would always throw a shit fit, bitching them out under his breath and hissing. One time, we were at a swanky restaurant (which we ended up leaving because I accidentally dropped the f-bomb in front of 3 6-year-olds, which I was embarrassed beyond belief and apologized for my drunken slip-up), and he ordered his whiskey "neat" and the server actually got it. Thank god, because he was going to be an asshole if it came back on the rocks. :( We are no longer friends, thank god.
My friend, a different one (jeez, I'm just full of boring anecdotes today!), can't make small talk at all. I think we all need to learn to do it to some extent. It's just polite. We all know that Cash Register Worker doesn't give a shit about your day, she's asking because she has to. Be nice! It's not so hard. I make small talk with anyone who talks to me, really, and I find that it gets me better service, anyway. #etiquette
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I totally agree with the idea that being gratuitously rude to waiters is a glaring sign that someone is just an asshole in general. #etiquette
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Him: I LOATHE when people ask how I am when they say hello. Like "Hi! How are you?" I HATE that.
Me: Why?
Him: Because no one ever means it.
Me: Some people do.
Him: Most don't.
Me: What would you prefer people say?
Him: Nothing. Let's just acknowledge that we don't care about each other.
Me: Yes. Ignoring and not caring about one another is how we as a society have moved past screeching primates.
Insert any variation of that conversation into my life at least once every other month. #etiquette
11/16/09
I've gotten much better at it with effort and practice, but in my head it still just seems like it would be so much more efficient to cut to the chase and give my order without all the other expected social customs.
Though I have learned that there really is a benefit to it all (beyond the self-serving ones), and it's nice to make people happy or at least have a slightly less crappy day.
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But what I was going to say is there's an old adage that says, "You can tell a lot about a person by the way he or she treats the waiter." #etiquette
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My other friend is very similar to your boyfriend - just comes off as cold. He doesn't have a disability, but he just reads as "unfriendly". Once you get to know him, he loosens up, but it takes awhile, and small talk makes him so uncomfortable. #etiquette
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I loathe cell phone calls in the toilet. No conversation is so important it can't wait until after you wipe. #etiquette
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Nothing was said until AFTER I paid for my items. As the cashier handed me my receipt, the lady directly behind me said, "Well, I hope you are happy now, having cut in front of me."
I just looked at her, blinked, and then, instead of allowing my lifelong, well-trained, "Oh, I'm so sorry!" response to come out, simply replied, "No remorse."
She actually sputtered. "Oh, well, that's NICE! You have a nice evening!" (said with no small amount of sarcasm).
I was already walking away and just smiled over my shoulder and said, "You, too!"
I'm not *proud* of this story...oh, hell, actually, I am. #etiquette
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Honestly, seriously, I find it all very heartbreaking, and I would rather die than live that way. #etiquette
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