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clevernamehere
06/03/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
I don't really care if they are princesses, I want more lead female characters.

If aliens were watching our movies and television form outer space, they would think that the natural gender ratio is about 3 men for every 1 woman.

People keep listing kick ass sidekicks or characters from anime that isn't widely seen in the US, but the fact of the matter is we don't see enough female characters in general. If studios actually strived for something resembling the gender make-up of the world (and racial makeup for that matter), it wouldn't even matter if most of the female leads were princesses, they'd all end up being different princesses.
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MeganGlass 就是一个古代的三明治
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
I'm pretty happy to see the lead in "Up" be an elderly widower. Nice to see the elderly getting their due.

That said, princesses is what Disney does for girls, it's always done that, and it always will, because it's a formula that works every time. It's probably best to leave it to better companies to do better than Disney in that area, rather than get bent out of shape about it.
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quatrevingtquatre
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
Everytime I come back here there is some anti-Disney Princess story and I am beginning to believe that I am far more traditional than I previously thought. I don't see a problem with Princesses in movies, nor do I see a problem with the fact that her story will be one about love. Disney is in the business of selling fantasies and dreams, featuring houses that can float away with enough balloons, talking animals and living toys.

When I was a little girl, I wanted to be a writer or a marine biologist and I adored The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast and Pocahontas with all my heart. I never thought I was going to be a princess, but I loved hearing about their adventures and true love. But what ultimately shaped my strange and sad view of love and relationships was my parents' messy divorce and watching my mom fall apart and my dad remarry over and over. I never thought a man was going to come rescue me and my mom from the life we lived; I knew I had to do it for myself.

If generations of little girls are becoming spoiled and unrealistic about life and love, perhaps it has more to do with the people who raised them than the Disney animated features they saw.
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clevernamehere
06/03/09

@thatonegirlsays: But the issue is why are so many female characters in animation looking for love compared to the male characters. Why isn't there a cartoon about a female marine biologist or vet (two huge fantasy careers for little girls and little boys)? Why should girls get the short end of the cartoon stick?
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JennaW
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
Also, the main character's wife in UP is one of the finest female characters ever. I vote for a prequel!
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JennaW
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
Wonder Woman is cited, though not in the exact context, and yet -- Wonder Woman is a princess.
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frozenfresa
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
But she isn't just any princess (waiting around for a prince to save her, trying to get a prince to fall in love with her).

"The impetuous, tangle-haired Merida, though a daughter of royalty, would prefer to make her mark as a great archer."

From the description, it doesn't even sound like she wants to be a princess. If anything, it sounds like Pixar is making the princess role more complex, suggesting that (gasp) girls can be athletic and smart and also wear dresses (but not all the time!). Maybe I'm just a Pixar apologist, but I really like where this is going, and sounds like it could appeal to wider audience.
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Erode
06/02/09

@frozenfresa: Thank you! So many people here have so little faith.

Pixar cannot possibly make a bad movie; they are incapable of doing so. Every single one of their movies have been witty, intelligent and far surpassing many other films in both content and quality. What makes everyone think that this movie would be any less awesome than the other 11 movies they've done? Are people really that jaded?
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DorothyBarker
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
Wouldn't it be nice, too, if when girls/young women do appear in these movies, as leads (rarely, admittedly) or otherwise, it wasn't all about romance? All those big Disney animations, Beauty and the Beast, Little Mermaid, etc. are basically versions of 'When will my Prince Come?" We shouldn't be telling girls it's all about getting a guy. It's about getting a life.
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krismry
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
I know he's not a princess, but props to Ed Asner for being the hero despite being an old guy, which in itself is kinda newsy. Ed Asner is to be commended also for helping us by doing narration for an indie documentary we made a long time ago, so it seems he is a good man to have around whenever and wherever there's a need. yay ed xoxo
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Dodgergirl
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
It seems to me that animation is still largely a boy's club. There are certainly talented female animators, but when I think about the big names, the directors and head writers, the ones who really control story, they tend to be male. I am sure that is a BIG part of the problem. Diversity behind the scenes helps lead to more diversity in the final product.

However, I would like to give a shout-out to Lilo, who is awesome, and not a princess.
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Dodgergirl
06/02/09

@Dodgergirl: Related: had a professor once who did some work on presentation of the female body in animated movies, and she spoke to some animators about it once. Apparently it just never really occurred to them that they were drawing women who would literally not have enough room for their vital organs.
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Melpomene
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
This is why I loathe Pixar. They make excellent, well-made, interesting movies. Yet, overall, taking all their movies together, it is clear who their target audience is-- young boys. Who cares if female characters are consigned to the quirky sidekick role? (Dreamworks can be worse--don't get me started on the Bee Movie and its appropriation of female cultural symbols (bees) into a movie essentially about masculinity and manliness).

There are exceptions (in Toy Story 2 and Wall-e)... but I don't care how good the rest of the movies are. Give me Mulan and Beauty and the Beast any day. Heck, give me Mary Poppins or The Parent Trap any day.
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Erode
06/02/09

@Melpomene: And The Incredibles. A Bug's Life touched on strong female characters (Dot, Atta, the Queen). Finding Nemo (Dory was a bit....touched in the head, but she was definitely a huge part of that film). Even Monster's Inc touched on it (sure, Boo can hardly be considered a female lead, but she's the first thing I think of when I think of that movie).

Honestly, I am deeply saddened for you if you loath Pixar. You are really, really missing out. I love the 2D classic Disney films and I adore Miyazaki as well, but Pixar is the shiz-nit, and you can't take that away from them.
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cynopt
06/03/09

@Erode: One more for the list: Ratatouille. Collette is a strong central female character,explicitly succeeding on her own formidable skills despite entrenched sexism.

And she's voiced by Janeane Garofalo.

Obviously I'm biased, but I consider Pixar's movies uniformly gender neutral; they're all about story first and foremost, not merchandising or trying to pander with gratuitous violence or asinine Princesses.
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cynopt
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
Meh, I have faith in Pixar. I'm pretty staunchly opposed to the whole Princess schtick, but even I can separate the behaviors that make it so repugnant from the actual word. It's not princesses that are the problem, it's Princesses, the whole Disney-spawned, wealthy, passive, damsel in distress cliche. Princesses who can kick ass alongside and ahead of the boys are another matter entirely.

Just to dip into a couple Ghibli productions Packaging Girlhood elected to ignore, both Nausicaa and PRINCESS Mononoke feature princesses (among other strong female characters) who are tough as nails, completely independent, and generally just all around heroic as fuck.
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Luxbot
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
I HAVE A DREAM!! I wish someone would make an animated movie out of Garth Nix's excellent Sabriel. The ultimate would be Hiyao Miyazaki, but since he's pretty much retired I'll settle for Pixar.
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sciencerules
06/02/09

@Luxbot: My dollars would FLY out of my pocket to see a great Sabriel movie. That book kicked serious ass. Great father/daughter dynamic too.
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hydrogen_jukebox
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
I just finished reading the "His Dark Materials" series, and lemme tell ya, Lyra is one hell of a kick-ass character. (I wish the Golden Compass movie would've done better, now.) Even when, in the second book, the male co-protagonist is introduced, it becomes an egalitarian sort of thing, instead of her immediately taking a back seat to his adventure. Not to mention there's a good balance of villains and strong secondary characters, both male and female. It was actually a pleasant surprise to find a book so thoroughly humanist (and feminist, imo.)
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hydrogen_jukebox
06/02/09

@hydrogen_jukebox: Which is to say, I would've liked to see an animated version of this...as it kind of was in my head.
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NashCachimbear
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
I'd say it's high time "Beezus and Ramona" was re-packaged.
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BlondeGrlz
06/02/09

@NashCachimbear: Done. [www.imdb.com]
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
06/02/09

In reply to How About An Animated Movie With A Female Lead Who Isn't A Princess?
I wouldn't mind the Paper Bag Princess. She's tough.
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