children - Jezebel

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De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
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4-Year-Old Channels Michael Jackson on Ellen
Should Women Without Children Also Get Maternity Leave?

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If_I_Had_a_Poodle
03:34 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
Run with scissors! Play in traffic!
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Cookie Dough Monster
02:01 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
Oh man, I can't comment intelligently on this because I know the girl pictured very, VERY well... and her parents are not helicopter-y at all (and actually very annoyed that this picture was chosen to run in a million papers along with an AP article). Seeing this picture here is super-weird!
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ihateyourescalade
02:05 PM

@Cookie Dough Monster: Her parents, or their lawyer, should contact the AP and threaten a libel suit if that photo is not removed immediately. Trust me, it will be gone in a flash.
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ihateyourescalade
02:00 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
For heaven's sake, America, cut parents some slack. We're doing the best job we can here. OK? Enough already. And don't even think about sassing me, America, because you'll end up in a time out so fast it'll make your head spin.
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femme-bot
10:41 PM

@ihateyourescalade: [jezebel.com]

Yeah, we ought to cut parents some slack.
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salthegeek
01:37 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
My dad kinda cares about my school, he just says that he cant sleep at night ect. to make me work harder . My mom on the other hand inserts herself in to any class that I have a problem in. Being 22 and in college it's rather embarrassing
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Edited by salthegeek at 11/20/09 1:39 PM salthegeek was starred salthegeek was unstarred

ihateyourescalade
02:01 PM

@salthegeek: It's "etc.," though. Love, mom. ;)
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salthegeek
02:17 PM

@ihateyourescalade: eh, she did save me form failing a class, once.

#tips
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jairip
01:23 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
Part of the problem for parents is that you are not allowed to let your child develop at his/her own pace anymore. If they don't hit a milestone "society" throws "early intervention is key" at you and then blam-o, you're a bad parent if you don't get your kids therapy every other week.

People wouldn't need to be taught to de-overparent if the school systems would stop making parents so crazy in the first place.

A friend of mine showed me a list she was given by her school system of skills her kids had to master before he would be allowed into kindergarden. This list included recognizing the whole alphabet, numbers, basic shapes & colors and some other stuff I can't even remember. The list was a page and a half long. My question was, "What's kindergarden for then?"

Maybe if we de-checklist the system the parents will follow.

J
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rah29
01:44 PM

@jairip: That sounds insane! But I really think you're on to something. No wonder parents are worried, everyone is telling them their kid has to master things at very specific times or else they're like, stupid. After I left my secondary school, they actually tried to implement a thing where students had homework 'diaries' and parents had to sign them every night. My mother was so fed up she just had my sister forge her signature every day.
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Hazey Jane
02:35 PM

@jairip: I worry about this sort of thing, too—especially with reading. I didn't learn to read until I was six. I could read really simple words at five, but it didn't really "click" until I was six and in first grade. I consider myself a fairly intelligent person and was definitely not a "slow" child in other respects (nor did I dislike books—in fact, I remember being really eager to learn to read). Once I finally got it, I could read as well as the kids who had been reading since they were three or four. I was lucky that my mom knew about child development and that my kindergarten and first grade teachers were old pros, so no one was concerned that I'd end up illiterate. I worry that a lot of kids in my situation now would be held back a year unnecessarily or would be endlessly bombarded with reading lessons until they are totally put off the idea.

Basically, schools and parents need to take a step back and realize that there's almost always a range for what's normal and that even being a little bit over it doesn't always mean there's something seriously wrong with a child.
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Plum-Pie
03:14 PM

@jairip: And such milestones are based on 'averages' so crude as to be meaningless for any real analysis of a child's progress. (My cousin is writing a PhD in, broadly speaking, teaching maths to kids with learning difficulties, and such things anger her greatly.)
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jairip
04:28 PM

@Plum-Pie: I think some people loose sight of what "average" means. It means some kids do "insert skill here" early, some do it later. It doesn't mean, if your kid masters said skill before the "average" he/she is brilliant.

Read with your best pirate voice...

'the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rule'

#tips
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rah29
07:42 PM

@Hazey Jane: You know what? My sister couldn't read until she was about six either. My parents were kind of worried, because I'd started reading at 2 (I was a little freak), but my mum always swore she knew her kids, and that my sister was a physical little brute of a child who would read in her own time. Of course, the sis is now in med school, and she had better grades than me the whole way through school. She even aced English although she loathed it because 'for God's sake you don't need that many words to express made up feelings.'
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Flackette Goes Retro
12:54 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
I work at a university, in public relations. Most of my time is devoted to actual News, as we're a big presence in the state. But we do sometimes send out news releases on particularly noteworthy student accomplishments, like becoming a Rhodes Scholar or such. Big stuff. You would not BELIEVE the number of parents who call me to demand that a personalized news release be sent out about their darling child (age 21) who is on the student council or president of the hiking club or whatever. And if I tell them that we do not do personalized releases for such everyday accomplishments, they get pissy (seriously, we have mearly 20,000 students here. If we did a release on all students' lives...well, we don't have to, because students already issue statements about everything they do via Facebook).

I would have been mortified if my parents had called the administration of my university to demand that my special little accomplishments be recognized.

I'm also struck by how many students seem to be involved in constant day-long conversations with their parents via cell phone or texting. I called my parents semi-regularly in college, but no way would I want them able to access me at all hours.
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED
01:02 PM

@Flackette Goes Retro: Yeah I had some friends whose parents are really overattached--still are, really. my roommate (who's 25, 3 years out of college) just got her wisdom teeth out and her parents insisted on taking her. and staying for like 3 days.
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Edited by pantsless economist...access RESTORED at 11/20/09 1:03 PM

sanyucat
01:18 PM

@pantsless economist...access RESTORED: When the economy collapses and martial law reigns, Earth will be ruled by those hardy few of us whose parents failed to notice our 104° fever, and thought that going to the doctor more than once a year was only for the old and infirm.
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jurisenpai
01:20 PM

@Flackette Goes Retro: I am 27, and in college I talked with my parents about 3-4 times a month. I now chat with my mom online occasionally, but I still only call them once in a while - and we're fine with that! I'm an adult with my own life; why should they be breathing down my neck 24/7?
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rah29
01:34 PM

@Flackette Goes Retro: Oh my god, I would have died if I had to be in that much contact with my parents. We spoke about once a week. Helpfully they were across the Atlantic at the time... I actually talk to my mother more often now, but that's because I'm no longer an 18 year old bent on establishing my independence!

@sanyucat: My parents noticed when I had a fever, but it was a truly glorious and rare day when that fever meant I could stay home from school!
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TheFormerJuneBronson
01:39 PM

@jurisenpai: We had a thread about this a while ago, but I too am plenty close with my family, but communicate with them, on average, only about every ten days. Lately it's been more, with my mom, because of my health. But I've been known to realize it's been three weeks since I called and text my mom to apologize and tell her we're all still alive. The general policy is that if someone had died, we'd have called. Unless we all died, in which case the police probably would have called. We are sometimes cavalier about issues related to death.

But I once had a close friend who believed in her heart that I could not possibly be close with my family because we didn't talk every day, more than once. The amount of drama she had to deal with in her family would have driven me around the bend years ago. The truth is that no one's life is organically that interesting. If you talk five times a day and no one's in the hospital, you're probably manufacturing something.
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sanyucat
01:49 PM

@rah29: Staying home from school is for dead people.
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rah29
07:00 PM

@sanyucat: Also: you can't possibly be that sick if you're able to sit up and watch tv all day. Huh??? That's logic for you!

#tips
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Jenloveshercurves
12:41 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
I work in housing at a University. This last weekend, I had a parent who was upset that I refused to come back from my vacation to immediately move his daughter from her room because she had an argument with her roommate and change our policies on student movements for his perfect flower. The man called me nine times in one night and harassed me via e-mail. He had his secretary call me so he can set up a phone call with me today and for what? So he can tell me how incompetent I am? His daughter moved on Monday to a situation she is really happy with and to one that wouldn't have been available on Friday. I love students, when I talk to them, they get it, I can see the light go off. I hate parents, they're disrespectful and fully come from a consumer mentality. When students come to college, they are adults and their parents should treat them as such. Which means letting them sort their own problems out and learn to advocate for themselves. I've never seen a situation in my line of work where a parents involvement made anything any better or something come out differently than it would have had the student advocated for themselves. They only make things more difficult and teach the child that yelling at people and expecting mom and dad to step in and throw around money is the way to solve problems. Thank God I have FERPA which keeps me from having to communicate anything about a student without their written consent or I would go crazy. I feel like much of my job now is to try to develop parents who are overgrown assholes rather than students who are still developing.
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CherriSpryte
01:09 PM

@Jenloveshercurves: For what its worth, the school I went to for undergrad is known for large amounts of red tape and bureaucratic ridiculousness. One semester, 2 of my roommates had similar problems with their financial aid. One spent weeks navigating multiple offices, meeting with people, and being generally given the run-around by the administration. The other had her mother call, and the situation was sorted out instantly. I think it varies school-to-school on some level (and I fought my administrative battles on my own), but there are times when universities don't listen to students, but will listen to parents.
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professor hummingbird
01:10 PM

@Jenloveshercurves: Oh, how I know your pain! I will never cease to be amazed at the number of people who think it is acceptable to contact their kid's professor to complain about his/her grade. I've become convinced that FERPA is more a protection for educators than students!
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Jenloveshercurves
01:21 PM

@CherriSpryte: If your friend had contacted the department head directly, I would put money on something happening and quickly. Especially if that didn't work out if she then contacted the VP and onto the President if necessary. Parents know to do this, because some departments are organizational nightmares (I think this is especially true in financial aid where there are a tons of federal and state laws and proof needs to be provided of various situations and people don't understand how much they have to pay, ect.), students need to learn to do this, so having a parent do it (and be very nasty along the way) isn't helping that student.
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Jenloveshercurves
01:21 PM

@professor hummingbird: I know, I love FERPA so much for that very reason.
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charliekohler
01:25 PM

@CherriSpryte: Exactly. My first day of high school, the counselors told us, "You need to take control of your education now. Your parents don't need to figure out what to do for you."
So when I needed something done, I did it myself. As a fourteen-year-old. I took meetings with the principal, for God's sake, to get out of a ridiculous course with a ridiculous teacher. I was poised and respectful and gave legitimate reasons.
Nothing happened until my mom called.
Since then, I've been aggressive, not polite, and I've gotten everything done that I wanted/needed done. Including getting my Running Start advisor to sign off on 25 credits next quarter (I've been taking 20, and, unless I'm taking math, it's too easy).
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kungfutoday
01:30 PM

@Jenloveshercurves: My answer to that would have been "your daughter had an argument with her roommate. Unless the cops were called or bodily harm or real property damage was done, this is not my problem - esp. not after hours. She can do what millions of other ADULTS have done -- crash with friends. If you call me again, Sir, your daughter will not be allowed to live in university housing anymore."
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Jenloveshercurves
01:43 PM

@kungfutoday: I can't even confirm or deny that she's a student without her written consent. He was mainly upset that I refused to talk to him and he thought that he had my cellphone (if I had a job that required me to give my cell number while on vacation to parents, I wouldn't have this job). I, sadly, do not have the power to kick out a student for their father being a dick.

#tips
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TheFormerJuneBronson
01:46 PM

@professor hummingbird: And God bless it! I admire people who teach high schoolers, not because they can deal with the kids, but because they have to deal with the parents!
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Atomic Bowling
01:46 PM

@Jenloveshercurves: When I worked for an airline on their customer service phone lines I found that parents of adult children (i.e. 18 years old and older) had an almost impossible time understanding that it was not legal for us to discuss the details of their child's itinerary with them, let alone allow them to make changes to that itinerary or cancel it entirely. There were two things in particular that I grew extremely tired of hearing - "But she/he is a CHILD!" and "But I paid for this ticket!". I am guessing that these refrains are veeeery common at colleges as well (actually I work at a college now, but with international students, so we don't generally have to deal with US-style helicopter parents). Parents like the one who harassed you can't get it through their heads that a) their child is no longer literally a child and b) they are paying for their child to have great learning experiences, not get everything they want instantaneously with no effort on their part. I mean, what the heck would be the point of college if that's what it were really about??
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SarahMC
01:53 PM

@Jenloveshercurves: I have a handful of friends who all work in the housing dept at a college nearby. Every time I see them, they each have some ridiculous helicopter parents story. One was recently telling me about a mother who was harassing her day and night about a situation almost identical to the one you just described. It's unbelievable.

I was embarrassed when my mom called one of my doctors when I was going through radiation treatments (during college). I cannot IMAGINE some of the stuff I hear about from my friends. It's terrible.
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CherriSpryte
02:19 PM

@Jenloveshercurves: Yeah no. My friend was incredibly proactive about contacting the highest-up people she could, and it still took forever. As for contacting the university president, students were allowed one meeting with the president during the time they were undergrads, and as this was sophmore year, she didn't want to have to use that so early. VPs were similarly unreachable. I went to a nightmare university, so I don't think this is the case everywhere. One call to the Parent's Association from the other girl's mother, however, and her similar situation was taken care of - they contacted financial aid for her. As students trying to navigate on their own, we had no such resources.
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Lymed
12:32 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
The economic disparity you mention is so vital to remember. Because children from low-income families have to compete with children who are overscheduled in extracurricular activities, whose parents have researched the detailed history of every admission dean, etc. While the children from poorer families may actually be more self-sufficient as a result, that is not something that is always rewarded academically or professionally.
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katekate is squared
01:48 PM

@Lymed: This is why affirmative action should also be based on SES, not just race and ethnicity.
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mommy_dearest
12:25 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
There are ELEVEN parents in this class. That means there are millions of parents who are not and never will take a class like this. That includes parents who can afford violin lessons.

Parents are doing just fine, everyone, I swear to god. Anecdotes and nanny stories and extremes are all very interesting, but they are not the norm in any way, shape, or form. But it sure seems to be fun to talk about how crappy parents are today because everyone knows they would never be that crappy.
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rhubarbarin
01:08 PM

@mommy_dearest: Blaming parents for the state of the younger generation has been around for as long as we have decried the state of the younger generation.

IMO, both are equally silly.
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mommy_dearest
01:26 PM

@rhubarbarin: That's why these kinds of posts are so frustrating. Everyone thinks it is all new with this generation of parents. There have been whack job parents since forever, yet as a whole, society is fine. Move along, people.
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morninggloria
12:20 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
My mother's aggressive overprotectiveness was all that prevented me from operating a meth lab out of our garage.
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BeSarcastic
12:25 PM

@morninggloria: I know. It helped me not to turn into a newt.
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Anna N.
12:45 PM

@BeSarcastic: That's funny, my mom's overprotectiveness actually turned me into a newt. But I got better.
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BeSarcastic
12:50 PM

@Anna N.: Clearly your mother's a witch. Does she weigh the same as a duck?
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boxspelunker
05:18 PM

@morninggloria: Thankfully, that was what stopped me from running an international drug ring and rainbow party circuit.
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wordinedgewise
12:18 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
Next:
Anti-de-overparentingism classes.
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Edited by wordinedgewise at 11/20/09 12:20 PM wordinedgewise was starred wordinedgewise was unstarred

Maritsa
12:18 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
The inability to evaluate risk realisticially - which is by NO means exclusive to parents - is the most striking thing to me. The mom who let her kid ride the subway has it exactly right. People freak about letting your kid walk to school alone but let them ride in cars - guess which one is more likely to result in injury and death?

My best friend doesn't have kids yet but she's always bemoaning the "crazy" safety rules - because "when we were young, we had lead-painted cribs and rode in the back of station wagons and we're fine!" On the other hand, she doesn't want to vaccinate her kids because she heard somewhere on some weirdo website that it might cause autism.
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awinoforever
12:23 PM

@Maritsa: arg! jenny mccarthy is not a doctor. if she's a fan of risk evaluation please tell her to google herd immunity. lead poisoning has a hugely higher risk of causing mental retardation and brain damage than vaccinations.

sorry. stepping off of soap box now.
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Maritsa
12:28 PM

@awinoforever: The scary thing is that she has a degree in biochemistry, so it's not like she's unfamiliar with science. It boggles my mind. The only other anti-vax people I know are mouth-breathing morons, so it isn't surprising they'd hold such an idiotic viewpoint.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
12:32 PM

@Maritsa: I wonder if she'd feel differently about vaccinations if she'd seen her kid suffocate to death with diptheria. Or had to disinfect her home so that her kid didn't cause an epidemic of scarlet fever in the community. We younger folks have no cultural memory of these diseases, and some people have fooled themselves into thinking that therefore, they don't exist or aren't dangerous.
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lisas
12:14 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
I don't find this disturbing, the opposite actually. It's heartening that people actually do take parenting classes and try to avoid making commonly-made mistakes, isn't it?

The article and this post also both state that overinvolved parents are less damaging than underinvolved parents.

Also, I think Anna too-easily dismisses how difficult it can be to "just relax."
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TheFormerJuneBronson
12:13 PM

In reply to De-Overparenting Is The New Overparenting
It's a testament to my sick sense of humor that I'd find it amusing to see these people freak out over how things run in my house. Today, for example, my son has watched PBS and had imagination time (i.e. the whole day, whenever he felt like being a pteronodon), and had a number of non-organic, artificially colored food items. Meanwhile, I have puttered around on the internet, read a trashy novel, and am about to get out my sewing machine to fix the Roman shade from his room that he broke.

Somehow? I think we'll all be just fine.
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rckoala
12:21 PM

@TheFormerJuneBronson: Ooooh, your day sounds like bliss.
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awinoforever
12:25 PM

@TheFormerJuneBronson: i really hope when i have kids that i can find other mommies like you to have cocktail play dates with.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
12:35 PM

@awinoforever: I wish I could find some right now! This is a working-class neighborhood. I'm one of the few (over age 25) who is ever around during the day, and one of the only women I know in this area who doesn't work full-time. It can get lonely.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
12:41 PM

@rckoala: It has its advantages and disadvantages. My career is nothing to write home about, though I do work part-time. I usually feel guilty about not making more money or being able to provide the family with health insurance. And I'm hardly a perfect mom. I have a low tolerance for kid activities, and pretty severe social anxiety, so I worry he gets lonely without any other kids around. We want to have more, but they won't be able to play together for a while, and they'll be further apart in age than we would have preferred. I'm hoping I'll be better at later stages of parenting. I can do homework help and PTA meetings.
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rckoala
03:49 PM

@TheFormerJuneBronson: I work full-time and that too has its advantages and disadvantages. My career is not that fulfilling, but it does pay for our insurance and allows me the peace of mind of a regular paycheck. (I have freelanced before so I know about the uncertainty and stress that can bring.) But sometimes I feel filled with anxiety and regret that I'm not spending my toddler's first years with her every day--and all for what? To go to a job that's soulless so I can afford to put her in daycare? Isn't the point of life to enjoy time with the ones you love?

I used to dream of being a stay-at-home mom with a part-time job doing something creative. Though I'm still trying to make that happen, I am all too aware of how draining/isolating/exhausting being home with a child can be. There are days when I am so grateful to come to work and to the relative calm of the cubicle!

It's all a trade-off, and there are no easy answers.

#tips
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pesematology
11/09/09

In reply to The Challenges Of Raising Kids Vegetarian
I know a lot of people who were very disturbed when they first learned that the chicken on their plate is the same as the animal called chicken. Their parents and the rest of society conditioned them to push down that feeling and eat it anyway. Except for some kids, who became vegetarians at age 4 (such as my brother did).

If kids can be encouraged to accept this cognitive dissonance, they can also learn to deal with having different food from their friends, I think.
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Edited by pesematology at 11/09/09 7:46 PM pesematology was starred pesematology was unstarred

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