I don't get the JJ love. Sweeping generalizations about an entire gender just aren't cool. If this were reversed, a "male supremacist" going off about how women just want to be taken care of and need a daddy all the time and are "marginal souls" (WTF?!) who aren't ever going to be the full, functional beings men are, Jezebel would be ripping it to shreds (and rightly so).
Perpetuating a stereotype of men as perpetual children isn't helpful, as it normalizes women into a role of put-upon mommy type.
@Isi: You're oversimplifying in order to make your point. Not that I necessarily disagree with what you're saying (although I do think tscheese put it better), you can't switch the genders and then say "but that wouldn't flyyyy" because it's not a 1:1 comparison. Men have never been denied education because they were "marginal souls". Hell, they've never been denied SOULS the way women have.
So when a woman like JJ talks the way she does, you have to consider that her opinions are formed based on the treatment that men gave HER. Read some of the stories she tells about being a bright young WOMAN lawyer, and how she was repeatedly sabotaged by men who wanted her to be a bright young woman secretary.
Guys, I am really sorry that many of you have had experiences with men who were oblivious, stupid, or just plain mean. No one should have to deal with that kind of assholishness, and I am sorry. But I'm a little surprised at some of the anti-man sentiment. Not all guys are "marginal souls"--that's a pretty broad brush that paints 50% of the world's population.
The point of feminism is respecting everyone equally, isn't it? I'm not inherently better than anyone else just because I'm biologically female and identify as female. I just want to be respected and given the same chances as anyone else.
I understand that it sucks to deal with assholes, but there are men out there who are rational and sane, with a sense of respect and empathy for others. Yeah, there are some jerkface men out there, but there are some jerkface women too. I'd rather judge a human's personality by their behavior than by what's between their legs.
So yeah, I don't love the "females = superior" or "men = marginal souls" vibe.
Getting $9 million/yr as a TV judge is probably a better gig, but I wish Judge Judy would run for mayor of NYC.
But ixnay on the men are marginal souls stumbling through life, in need of a beneficent mother substitute to prod them into performing basic tasks & duties stuff. It may be flattering to women's egos, but besides being false, that notion is at the root of the "boys will be boys" mentality and why women still get stuck with so much of the scut work.
@Your Screenplay Sucks: It also isn't helpful to the advancement of feminism as a positive force if feminists, while fighting for equal rights between genders, are also going around saying the other half of the population is "marginal". I don't think it's fair and it DEFINITELY not a good strategy.
@vamusical: Not to mention that by calling ourselves feminists (who want to be equal to men), then calling men "less than," aren't we suggesting that we are "less than" too?
I know that sound devil's advocate-y and semantics-ish, but it's still relatively early on the west coast and I haven't had enough coffee, so i hope you know what I mean...
@elysium_kitschen: I think that's exactly why Tracie decided to call her a female supremacist rather than a feminist, because she holds those superior beliefs.
I am not feeling too pleased about the turns my life has taken in the past week and I wish I could go home to my mom. But I'd move in with Judge Judy if she'd have me.
@sarabadara is harboring a fetal refugee: She has a huge ass house in Connecticut and a dozen grandkids, she probably wouldn't even notice one extra person.
I love her. And after reading a biography on Ruth Bader Ginsburg I am officially having Female Litigators Appreciation Day!!! Who's with me! Omelets for everyone!
Next time I look in the mirror and have a disparaging thought about my body, I am going to look at my cellulite and proclaim, "I am the fucking queen of the world."
@kareneg: When I do that, I spread my arms out just so, so my batwings can flap around and add sound effects! Also, it helps lift my saggy breasts for a second or two.
I adore JJ as much as the next Jezzie, but can't we get over calling men names, like "marginal souls"? Surely there are men out there who don't need a mother figure their whole life.
Disclaimer: my boyfriend apparently can't take care of himself 100%. When I go out of town, he sometimes doesn't eat for two days. I'm not joking.
He's sick right now (of course the whole world stops spinning when he gets a cold). Last night I told him to take some Nyquil and handed him the bottle. He peered at the little medicine cup and looked at me and said, "How much do I take?"
Umm, how about you READ THE LABEL ON THE BOTTLE, doofus? I am not your mother. But I do love you.
@MizJenkins: Haha I know. I was trying to say that there's no way ALL men need their mommies. And then I felt the need to put my own counterargument, in the interest of full disclosure.
@serreca: @sweet cuppin' cakes needs coffee: Oh my god, my husband is the same. But, somehow he managed to live on his own for 8 years before we got together. Granted, I'm pretty sure he ate pasta with lil' smokies and Prego (gross, right?) every night, but he did eat dinners. Now when I'm sick or out of town he will just live off of Club crackers until I'm back. And he does the medicine thing too... "how much pepto am I supposed to take?" Well, I'm just going to read the label and tell you, so you might as well read it yourself.
I think that when he married me he started using my brain as an external hard drive.
Now I feel the need to point out that he does all my laundry (and does it well) and vacuums regularly. And is a fabulous high school teacher. I lurve him.
@gangey: "I think that when he married me he started using my brain as an external hard drive."
Oh my god, suddenly the dynamic of my relationship with my BF came into focus. Now I know why he doesn't know when to unload the dishwasher (here's a clue: when the dishes are clean). Thank you for the enlightenment!
I am agreeing with JJ on the "marginal souls" comment today-- My misandrist streak is rearing its ugly head.
I'm dealing again with a tragic situation in which a man proves himself to be utterly selfish and useless. (maybe it's just the men in my family....) When someone is dying, and the man is thinking about how uncomfortable that makes HIM, and how he doesn't want that person dying in their own home? Selfish.
When a mother is having to leave behind an 8month old and the father is complaining about how he'll possibly be able to raise the child on his own, and the dying mother is spending her time comforting HIM? Selfish.
I wish I could say this is an isolated incident... but I'm sharing judge Judy's views at the moment, (as much as I (objectively) know that not all men fit this mold. I keep trying to remind myself of that. Not finding any paragons at the moment though.)
But damn. I'm sick of their selfish, useless selves. For being self-proclaimed masters of the universe, they really are very infantile a great deal of the time.
@Israfel_angel: Isn't that the way it always is? It's a suck-ass situation and a suck-ass response on the part of that man. I could name many situations with my own husband that mirror this (in not so tragic a way, of course) and I blame it on the mother that convinced him (and his brothers) that he is the center of the universe.
I'm sorry for what you're going through, and the inevitable loss - perhaps someone needs to give the guy a swift kick and a little lecture on his non-center-of-the-universeness.
@Israfel_angel: I don't think Crap Email From a Dude is still kicking, but here is one my friend just received from her baby daddy who has "needed space to figure things out so I can be a dad" for the past 11 months. I mean, get it together dude!:
"Hi. I noticed you called. It is 1am Thursday my time and I just got back from work - sick old patient and a long day. You are probably wondering if I am still alive. Not a day goes by that I don't contemplate my fatherhood and my relationship with my daughter and her mother. It hurts to think about you both. I rehearse things to say like "don't take it personally" but of course how could you not take it personally. I am trying to put Seattle behind me, I think i need to do that, as I have flashbacks and panic attacks. I have organised a house-sit/rental starting at Easter, and have applied for regular work where I have worked before. So things are grumbling along according to some sort of plan. I am still living out of a rucksack. I have no therapist yet as I have been moving around. This will change soon.
I will not say things I do not mean. I hope you are both well, but I really don't need to know details right now. Unless you need something specific, of course, and I will do what I can.
You can interpret my silence how you like. I don't know what to say except I am not feeling remotely paternal. Under the circumstances it is probably not surprising, but it is certainly far from ideal for any of us. You must be asking yourself "how can he not want to know about her, how can he not care about his daughter?" Good questions. I don't have answers. I don't know if it is guilt that I feel, it is something uncomfortable, but I can't put a finger on it. I only hope you can feel joy and excitement and all the things mothers need to feel, despite probably being tired the whole time."
@Linnley: I know, right? He is so damn busy being a poor confused victim while my friend is like, whatever dude, I don't have time for personal growth right now because I'm RAISING A BABY BY MYSELF. Argh. It's killing me that I don't know the guy well enough for it to be appropriate to give him a piece of my mind.
I don't even know these people and I am unreasonably outraged at that email. What a tool. "I am not feeling remotely paternal"? UH WHUT? How convenient for him. I love how men can opt in and out of parenthood on a goddamn whim.
Fuckstick.
I know your friend is dying to put a hit on on this insufferable bastard.
@dreamweave: it's probably the feeling of realizing, in some tiny way that the male brain rarely grasps, that he has OBLIGATIONS to people other than himself and he is falling faaaaaar short of meeting them.
what a selfish ass. get your shit together and be a father to your daughter. 'not being ready' is no excuse.
02/25/09
Perpetuating a stereotype of men as perpetual children isn't helpful, as it normalizes women into a role of put-upon mommy type.
02/25/09
So when a woman like JJ talks the way she does, you have to consider that her opinions are formed based on the treatment that men gave HER. Read some of the stories she tells about being a bright young WOMAN lawyer, and how she was repeatedly sabotaged by men who wanted her to be a bright young woman secretary.
02/25/09
The point of feminism is respecting everyone equally, isn't it? I'm not inherently better than anyone else just because I'm biologically female and identify as female. I just want to be respected and given the same chances as anyone else.
I understand that it sucks to deal with assholes, but there are men out there who are rational and sane, with a sense of respect and empathy for others. Yeah, there are some jerkface men out there, but there are some jerkface women too. I'd rather judge a human's personality by their behavior than by what's between their legs.
So yeah, I don't love the "females = superior" or "men = marginal souls" vibe.
02/25/09
I love that Shatner is such a soft silly clown, and JJ is this awesome dynamic falcon woman. Kickass pairing.
02/25/09
02/25/09
But ixnay on the men are marginal souls stumbling through life, in need of a beneficent mother substitute to prod them into performing basic tasks & duties stuff. It may be flattering to women's egos, but besides being false, that notion is at the root of the "boys will be boys" mentality and why women still get stuck with so much of the scut work.
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
I know that sound devil's advocate-y and semantics-ish, but it's still relatively early on the west coast and I haven't had enough coffee, so i hope you know what I mean...
02/25/09
02/25/09
More!
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
Well, I've marginalized my soul into nonexistence, so I can't really complain.
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
Just ask my ass. Or her minions, my thighs.
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
Next time I look in the mirror and have a disparaging thought about my body, I am going to look at my cellulite and proclaim, "I am the fucking queen of the world."
Love that.
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
Disclaimer: my boyfriend apparently can't take care of himself 100%. When I go out of town, he sometimes doesn't eat for two days. I'm not joking.
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
He's sick right now (of course the whole world stops spinning when he gets a cold). Last night I told him to take some Nyquil and handed him the bottle. He peered at the little medicine cup and looked at me and said, "How much do I take?"
Umm, how about you READ THE LABEL ON THE BOTTLE, doofus? I am not your mother. But I do love you.
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
I think that when he married me he started using my brain as an external hard drive.
02/25/09
02/25/09
Now I feel the need to point out that he does all my laundry (and does it well) and vacuums regularly. And is a fabulous high school teacher. I lurve him.
02/25/09
Oh my god, suddenly the dynamic of my relationship with my BF came into focus. Now I know why he doesn't know when to unload the dishwasher (here's a clue: when the dishes are clean). Thank you for the enlightenment!
02/25/09
02/25/09
I'm dealing again with a tragic situation in which a man proves himself to be utterly selfish and useless. (maybe it's just the men in my family....) When someone is dying, and the man is thinking about how uncomfortable that makes HIM, and how he doesn't want that person dying in their own home? Selfish.
When a mother is having to leave behind an 8month old and the father is complaining about how he'll possibly be able to raise the child on his own, and the dying mother is spending her time comforting HIM? Selfish.
I wish I could say this is an isolated incident... but I'm sharing judge Judy's views at the moment, (as much as I (objectively) know that not all men fit this mold. I keep trying to remind myself of that. Not finding any paragons at the moment though.)
But damn. I'm sick of their selfish, useless selves. For being self-proclaimed masters of the universe, they really are very infantile a great deal of the time.
02/25/09
I'm sorry for what you're going through, and the inevitable loss - perhaps someone needs to give the guy a swift kick and a little lecture on his non-center-of-the-universeness.
02/25/09
"Hi. I noticed you called. It is 1am Thursday my time and I just got back from work - sick old patient and a long day. You are probably wondering if I am still alive. Not a day goes by that I don't contemplate my fatherhood and my relationship with my daughter and her mother. It hurts to think about you both. I rehearse things to say like "don't take it personally" but of course how could you not take it personally. I am trying to put Seattle behind me, I think i need to do that, as I have flashbacks and panic attacks. I have organised a house-sit/rental starting at Easter, and have applied for regular work where I have worked before. So things are grumbling along according to some sort of plan. I am still living out of a rucksack. I have no therapist yet as I have been moving around. This will change soon.
I will not say things I do not mean. I hope you are both well, but I really don't need to know details right now. Unless you need something specific, of course, and I will do what I can.
You can interpret my silence how you like. I don't know what to say except I am not feeling remotely paternal. Under the circumstances it is probably not surprising, but it is certainly far from ideal for any of us. You must be asking yourself "how can he not want to know about her, how can he not care about his daughter?" Good questions. I don't have answers. I don't know if it is guilt that I feel, it is something uncomfortable, but I can't put a finger on it. I only hope you can feel joy and excitement and all the things mothers need to feel, despite probably being tired the whole time."
02/25/09
02/25/09
Ummmmm...
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
What?
"I don't know what to say except I am not feeling remotely paternal."
- Has he even gone to see his daughter at all?
02/25/09
I hope when his daughter is older, she'll give him one hell of a verbal beatdown.
02/25/09
02/25/09
02/25/09
I don't even know these people and I am unreasonably outraged at that email. What a tool. "I am not feeling remotely paternal"? UH WHUT? How convenient for him. I love how men can opt in and out of parenthood on a goddamn whim.
Fuckstick.
I know your friend is dying to put a hit on on this insufferable bastard.
02/25/09
what a selfish ass. get your shit together and be a father to your daughter. 'not being ready' is no excuse.
02/25/09
I think that's a brilliant way to put it.
I love her talking about aging.
02/25/09