Not to pick on California, but I feel like this is sort of same shit, different day ([jezebel.com]) in regards to California institutions being woefully underfunded and admins. being overloaded and overworked. #phillipgarrido
@dreamweave: well some state's have better tax laws. We had a lengthy discussion yesterday about California capping property taxes and how that's hurt the state in the long run.
@dreamweave: California seems to always be on the extreme. Propositions have created an impossible situation where the legislature has ever growing mandated spending requirements and very limited ability to increase revenue. #phillipgarrido
@bluebears: oh please know I wasn't being a smartass, I was being sincere. I missed yesterday's discussion, but am definitely aware of how Prop 13 jacked up CA's future in any number of areas. I guess it's all relative, but I am curious as to which states are doing it significantly better. My state (NC) desperately needs to broaden its tax base and EVERYONE knows it, but getting politicians to stand up and support it is like pulling teeth. Do you (or anyone reading this) know of states where state workers are well-paid and not overworked in relation to their pay? #phillipgarrido
@dreamweave: I couldn't tell if you were being a "smartass" or not, I was just trying to respond to you in a serious way. And to answer your question I think there are gradations depending on the state.
@dreamweave: Eve Carson was murdered by two guys who were on probation but were not being followed closely enough. Their probation officers were overworked and underpaid.
I too can't think of a state where this is not the case. This is one reason why lots of states are farming out prisons to private enterprises with the lowest bids, just to save a little money. Ideally they'd be raising taxes, reforming drug punishments, and hiring more parole and probation officers, but of course anyone who proposes that would be shot down and never get re-elected. People hate taxes, and they hate "criminals" even more. "More walls and fewer rights" is the refrain regarding prisoners. #phillipgarrido
The more I read stuff like this, the more I agree with Sen. Webb, who said, to paraphrase roughly, "Either we have the worst people in the world in America or we're doing something wrong." I hope Webb makes some traction in fixing things. I'm all for being "tough on crime," but I think legislators are so focused on that they've forgotten what it really means. #phillipgarrido
@Flackette Goes Retro: When we went house-hunting, you wouldn't believe the number of houses we saw that had rooms with padlocks on the outside. It's a scary, scary place out there. #phillipgarrido
According to the report, California failed to follow parole protocols for Garrido 90% of the time — which, for those of you keeping score at home, is an F.
Well, that depends on what your perspective is. If you're grading them on Overal Suck, they get an A-. #phillipgarrido
Also, Garrido had been sentenced for a sex crime, correct? No one with that in his past needs "low level" supervision. I'm all for atoning and shit, but if you've fucked with a kid, you should be watched pretty carefully until you're dead. #phillipgarrido
Unacceptable. If I perform 90% of the time, I'd be fired. And I only set up windows and stuff.
I would like to know this, though. Is this a case of overwork/understaffing? Individuals? A systemic problem? I want to know what happened in this particular case. #phillipgarrido
@Penny: no no no. It's much worse than that. [i]According to the report, California failed to follow parole protocols for Garrido 90% of the time[/i] ... meaning that the parole officers performed only [i]10% of the time[/i]
This is an incredible example of how tough on crime policies can back fire. California incarcerated so many people for drug use that the system can't function. They had to stop education and reform programs because they didn't have the money, so people left prison with no skills to get a job. They overburdened parole officers so they can't do their job. That is when mistakes happen. #phillipgarrido
What if you went to buy ice cream, and later found out that the ice cream you bought was stolen, and you were being sued by a rich person for eating it?
If the original ice cream owners were constantly in the news being run down on the street, mobbed, and harassed so that the intermediary could steal that brand ice cream to sell it to me, it's my responsiblity to not buy it or to make sure that it's not that particular brand. I know this site likes these pictures, but the "How could we possibly know?? What would you feel like if it was you?!" angle reeks of self-absolution. You (tabloids, etc.) know for a fact that you're part of the problem, now you have to decide if the money you make from perpetuating the problem is worth paying the fines.
People have been killed by the paparazzi. For what? So we can get pictures of who people we don't know are currently dating? What they're wearing? We don't let people that sell fake bags off the hook on this site, even though it's their livelihood, so why should media organizations that benefit from this bad behavior get a pass? It ain't ice cream, people. #paparazzi
@lydiafaye007: If you view the blog from a computer in California, you've probably established sufficient contact with the state to pursue the case. #paparazzi
This is a tough issue to do anything about; you have the rights of the press vs. the rights of the person and I see both as: 1)I'm a person who thinks privacy is a WONDERFUL thing (yeah, no desire for celebrity or fame here) and 2)I'm studying to become a writer, so I think freedom of the press is a WONDERFUL thing.
I'll start with the rights of the press side. Basically, the press has to have the right to photograph, write, interview, etc, so that issues, topics, etc, can be displayed from multiple points of view and that news can be circulated to the general public, without the fear of retribution by the government. If you start putting limits on the press, then you walk into the territory of some non-democratic countries where an outlet has to be careful of what they say for fear of what the government will do to them.
With this right comes HUGE responsibility of the press; what to say, what not to say, how far to take things, etc. Is/isn't it ok to press a politician to the breaking point when questioning them about an affair, accepting bribes, not paying taxes, etc? Is/isn't it ok to press a young girl to the breaking point about an assault on her, her helping her parents rob people, her beating the snot out of another girl, etc?
I think there is a difference between respectable "press" and someone who spends $800 dollars on a camera so they can stalk celebrities, take photos, and sell them to a trash rag for hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars. I would FERVENTLY hope someone who considers themself to be part of the press to have some intellect and know the difference between right or wrong and know approximately where that line is (they are human). In my view, the paparazzi are... a blemish to good journalism. I know some people love this stuff, but I can live without seeing unimportant people ("celebrities") in pictures without makeup, trying to leave a club, or just any and everywhere in their day to day lives. I know there is no way to differentiate between press and paparazzi, but I think the world of journalism should do more to self-police and stop these unsavory people from trashing the general image of journalism.
As far as personal rights go; I think you should be able to walk down the street without being mobbed by a group of people. I think its wrong that you try to leave a location, but can't because your vehicle is surrounded by people to the point you can't move without hurting someone. I think you should be able to take a flight without having to run to your gate to avoid people asking you stupid questions and taking pictures with which to critique every inch of your life later. I think you should be able to leave your home without fearing for the safety of you, your children, and your loved ones.
Do famous people/celebrities agree to a certain loss of anonymity when they become famous? Sure, I'll relent you that. I'll even admit some "stars" thrive on being in the spotlight, being followed by the paparazzi, and having their entire lives played out for all to see. But some don't, and thats where the problem lies. Some "stars" just want to do their job and all that goes along with it, and then just go home and be a regular joe. They don't want to have to sneak around everywhere. They don't want to have a store close just so they can go shopping. They just want to live a normal life, like you and me.
Is there a middle ground here? I think so. I think most "celebrities" would consent to the fact that they have given up some anonymity to do what they do. I also think that the journalism industry can do lots more to stop the unsavory practices of the paparazzi. Does this require the government getting involved? Not at all. Until both sides take responsibility though, who else will straighten out this mess? #paparazzi
I have a friend who is quite well-known, and one week I opened up a tabloid and saw a picture of his wife, who is not famous or in the industry whatsoever, and his 3 year old son playing at the park. He was not there. I could not believe it. It was such an incredible invasion of privacy. I could have understood a tiny bit more if he had been at the park as well, but no.
I do agree that, to an extent, being a public figure requires relinquishing some privacy, but there has to be a line, and the above crossed it big time for me. #paparazzi
@Spike49: Ugh. I think taking photos of stars' children is just awful. The kids are not public figures. If they're with their (famous) parent, that might be a little different, but this just smacks of stalking. #paparazzi
Someone I know has the theory that the problem with this is that is all part of the same economic model. Artificial supply and demand that in turn create the conditions where an actor can earn obscene amounts of money because of measures of profitability that are partly fed by media hype and the culture of celebrity tabloids, which help shape public perceptions and expectations. Which in turn create a hostile environment to feed the demand, which now has a life of its own and operates as separate entity while still feeding the system. I don't know, it's a fine line to thread. And I share Dodai's ambivalent feelings about it. A law like the one signed by Schwarzenegger doesn't address all the issues, merely tries to solve some of them while it raises other questions. #paparazzi
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I too can't think of a state where this is not the case. This is one reason why lots of states are farming out prisons to private enterprises with the lowest bids, just to save a little money. Ideally they'd be raising taxes, reforming drug punishments, and hiring more parole and probation officers, but of course anyone who proposes that would be shot down and never get re-elected. People hate taxes, and they hate "criminals" even more. "More walls and fewer rights" is the refrain regarding prisoners. #phillipgarrido
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Well, that depends on what your perspective is. If you're grading them on Overal Suck, they get an A-. #phillipgarrido
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I would like to know this, though. Is this a case of overwork/understaffing? Individuals? A systemic problem? I want to know what happened in this particular case. #phillipgarrido
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10/29/09
If the original ice cream owners were constantly in the news being run down on the street, mobbed, and harassed so that the intermediary could steal that brand ice cream to sell it to me, it's my responsiblity to not buy it or to make sure that it's not that particular brand. I know this site likes these pictures, but the "How could we possibly know?? What would you feel like if it was you?!" angle reeks of self-absolution. You (tabloids, etc.) know for a fact that you're part of the problem, now you have to decide if the money you make from perpetuating the problem is worth paying the fines.
People have been killed by the paparazzi. For what? So we can get pictures of who people we don't know are currently dating? What they're wearing? We don't let people that sell fake bags off the hook on this site, even though it's their livelihood, so why should media organizations that benefit from this bad behavior get a pass? It ain't ice cream, people. #paparazzi
10/29/09
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I'll start with the rights of the press side. Basically, the press has to have the right to photograph, write, interview, etc, so that issues, topics, etc, can be displayed from multiple points of view and that news can be circulated to the general public, without the fear of retribution by the government. If you start putting limits on the press, then you walk into the territory of some non-democratic countries where an outlet has to be careful of what they say for fear of what the government will do to them.
With this right comes HUGE responsibility of the press; what to say, what not to say, how far to take things, etc. Is/isn't it ok to press a politician to the breaking point when questioning them about an affair, accepting bribes, not paying taxes, etc? Is/isn't it ok to press a young girl to the breaking point about an assault on her, her helping her parents rob people, her beating the snot out of another girl, etc?
I think there is a difference between respectable "press" and someone who spends $800 dollars on a camera so they can stalk celebrities, take photos, and sell them to a trash rag for hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars. I would FERVENTLY hope someone who considers themself to be part of the press to have some intellect and know the difference between right or wrong and know approximately where that line is (they are human). In my view, the paparazzi are... a blemish to good journalism. I know some people love this stuff, but I can live without seeing unimportant people ("celebrities") in pictures without makeup, trying to leave a club, or just any and everywhere in their day to day lives. I know there is no way to differentiate between press and paparazzi, but I think the world of journalism should do more to self-police and stop these unsavory people from trashing the general image of journalism.
As far as personal rights go; I think you should be able to walk down the street without being mobbed by a group of people. I think its wrong that you try to leave a location, but can't because your vehicle is surrounded by people to the point you can't move without hurting someone. I think you should be able to take a flight without having to run to your gate to avoid people asking you stupid questions and taking pictures with which to critique every inch of your life later. I think you should be able to leave your home without fearing for the safety of you, your children, and your loved ones.
Do famous people/celebrities agree to a certain loss of anonymity when they become famous? Sure, I'll relent you that. I'll even admit some "stars" thrive on being in the spotlight, being followed by the paparazzi, and having their entire lives played out for all to see. But some don't, and thats where the problem lies. Some "stars" just want to do their job and all that goes along with it, and then just go home and be a regular joe. They don't want to have to sneak around everywhere. They don't want to have a store close just so they can go shopping. They just want to live a normal life, like you and me.
Is there a middle ground here? I think so. I think most "celebrities" would consent to the fact that they have given up some anonymity to do what they do. I also think that the journalism industry can do lots more to stop the unsavory practices of the paparazzi. Does this require the government getting involved? Not at all. Until both sides take responsibility though, who else will straighten out this mess? #paparazzi
10/29/09
I do agree that, to an extent, being a public figure requires relinquishing some privacy, but there has to be a line, and the above crossed it big time for me. #paparazzi
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