Mayhaps we should blame teenage boys instead of fat people - their relatively small numbers eat more than the rest of the population combined - as demonstrated in the recent cinematic masterpiece "17 Again".
Listen, it's just calories in vs. calories out. If you are overweight (like I am) its because you are eating more calories than you burn. That means that either a) you are eating more than your neighbor (calorically) or 2) being more sedentary than your neighbor.
I'm all for urban development plans - that's why I live in Portland, an incredibly walk/bike friendly city. But I'm still battling weight issues - because I eat and I like to drive places that are outside my neighborhood. I *am* less environmentally friendly than my thinner, bike-crazy housemate, and that's just the truth.
@HipsterPit: @scixonu: It's probably way too late for any of you to read this...but the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine is the UK's main school of public health. It's actually pretty renowned, and is on par with Johns Hopkins School of Public Health in the United States. The name simply reflects the school's history, since the early days of the study of public health has in roots in tropical medicine (think of all those British colonies in the tropics), and hygiene (just teaching people to wash their hands and not spit in the streets saved millions of lives).
Oh Jeez I just hate, hate these smug articles. Christ on a stick, I am a bit overweight and I run 15k per week, have serious core strenght and I walk as much as I can (so no, my ass is not responsible for global warming...eerr, not directly at least). Why will the world not leave me and my poutine alone!
Well maybe if more places to get stuff done were closer to us on foot, instead of having stores, banks and offices all in one place, then maybe we wouldn't be having this problem.
Also, I must add, the obsession with being fat is just making us fatter because either we're ashamed of it or we just want to piss you off.
a lot of naturally big people, especially women, starved themselves to fit in in the 70's. My mom used to keep herself on extremely strict diets for wayyyy too long. Now she can throw around hay bails like it ain't no thang, but then she had trouble making it through the school day. I'll stick to being big and healthy thanks.
Also, I think they have the causal relationship between being large and driving wrong. People get fat in places where they have to drive from place to place because it's neither safe nor feasible to walk. In places where there are safe places to walk and good public transportation people don't get as fat.
Ok, see I get mad hate messages whenever I respond to these posts, so I am slightly scared, but can I just say that the phrase "overweight people eat more than underweight people" is a stereotype and generalization. Its akin to saying "black people don't like water as much as white people do."
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: without being hateful, the reason I said that earlier is because, unlike racial stereotypes, food intake actually affects body mass. No, not in every case, and I think I was clear allowing for those rare exceptions, but as a general rule, one must consume more calories without increasing their activity in order to become larger.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: It's a generalization, but it is generally the case that it takes more calories to support a higher weight than a lower one. But what, someone eating 200 more calories a day than me is really going to make this huuuge impact on the environment? BS. Which foods you eat, is a little more relevant, but c'mon. Everyone having his or her own car, electronics that are made to be disposable rather than fixable, and so on. We know what the problems are, we just need to start fixing them already.
@schweppes: First, I took the quote from the post above, not you. I responded to you directly. Second, no malice is taken, I appreciate your reasoned response. I understand what you are saying but in my mind we have a very limited knowledge of how much food intake actually affects body mass. I think the "rare exceptions" that you make are more common than you realize and there are a fair share of studies that would back that up. Regardless if even ONE person goes against the norm than what you are saying is a generalization which can turn into a stereotype which again I think has no place in a reasonable discussion. There is plenty of scientific evidence that is used when backing up bias against homosexuals and women, science doesn't make it OK, in my opinion.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Now, wait wait wait..... are you saying that if there's a single exception to any statement, we can no longer use that statement? even with an asterisk? what is a reasonable discussion other than talking about things at least on some level collectively? I mean, I hear what you're saying when you're talking about racial minorities, etc....but we know plenty about calories and their effect on body size and it would be a disservice to everyone trying to have a rational discussion about weight and its health effects to not be able to talk about "generalizations." That's what every single study in the history of science is based upon.
@schweppes: Yeah, that's the argument my creepy ex boyfriend used to use against statuatory rape laws "well just because MOST 14 year olds aren't mature enough to make those decisions, is it fair for one who IS to be penalized?"
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: If we reject anything that has a couple of exceptions, we'd also be throwing away pretty much all medical knowledge ever. There will always be outliers that don't respond to certian drugs, and that don't act X way in Y situation-- but scientific generalizations are super useful for applying to general populations. That's jsut how it works.
@schweppes: Good point and taken for sure. I was incorrect to say that generalizations should not be used at all.
Here is my conundrum, as a fat woman, who due to medication eats less that 1200 calories a day and has not lost a single pound, I have to question the validity of our supposed knowledge about calories and their effect on body size. Generalizations, whether they are based on science or not have made it extremely difficult for myself and others like me to get accurate health care. So how do we know what generalizations are good ones and which ones are bad ones?
@inabook: I understand, thank you for clarifying. At what point do the outliers become so many that we have to re-adjust our thinking? And as an outlier, doesn't that just suck to be lumped in with a group that you are clearly not a part of?
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: The problem here is that you are the exception, and thus that's making you question the science. That's fair. What isn't fair is throwing the baby out with the bathwater and saying that all generalizations are harmful and that we shouldn't say anything until we know absolutely everything. We'll never know absolutely everything, and I agree with you that weight management, exercise physiology, and other such subjects are chronically underfunded and understudied. But science exists to tell us which generalizations are useful (such as "eating more calories tends to put weight on you"--which can be a positive if you're looking to build muscle!) and which are not (Black people are inferior). As we understand more and more, we can look at subtleties that we couldn't before, as well (Some people tend to do less well on the SATs because urban schools are poorly funded, poorly staffed, etc).
My bias is clear: I do science, I love science, and I'll always support *good* science, which it's not clear this is. I can't find the study, though, so I can't really say.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: ps: thank you for citing that study in your previous thread. I'm off to read it. And yes. I'm an outlier in a medical group, and it does suck to be lumped in, and affects the quality of my care. But those are the breaks in this game, and the best I can do is gently explain, again and again, why I am the way that I am.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Well, about "black people don't like 'water' (I'm assuming you mean go swimming) as much as white people", statistically, they don't.
I see myself as a bargain. I am an entire foot taller than some women I know, and I might weigh nearly twice as much as slighter, more petite women my age, but I certainly don't eat twice as much. I don't need to sleep twice as much. I don't need twice the room on a bus seat, twice the money, twice the oxygen. I eat mostly lacto/ovo, recycle, and only use CFLs and mass transit. I don't have a car, a private jet, I cost the same as the standard edition, but I'm padded with more luscious meat, and more likely to survive the impending zombie attacks.
Basically. I'm from Costco. I'm a big cuddly bargain--OF HUGS.
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I'm all for urban development plans - that's why I live in Portland, an incredibly walk/bike friendly city. But I'm still battling weight issues - because I eat and I like to drive places that are outside my neighborhood. I *am* less environmentally friendly than my thinner, bike-crazy housemate, and that's just the truth.
04/20/09
BZZZZZT.
Thanks for playing.
04/20/09
04/20/09
Such staid institutions, both.
04/21/09
Don't snark what you're not familiar with.
04/20/09
So kiss my ass.
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04/20/09
Also, I must add, the obsession with being fat is just making us fatter because either we're ashamed of it or we just want to piss you off.
Well...at least that's how I see it.
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04/20/09
"fattie on da bus, fattie on da bus" can haz record contract nao?
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Also, I think they have the causal relationship between being large and driving wrong. People get fat in places where they have to drive from place to place because it's neither safe nor feasible to walk. In places where there are safe places to walk and good public transportation people don't get as fat.
04/20/09
I kind of want speed, for all sorts of reasons. :(
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04/20/09
Yes, yes it is
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Here is my conundrum, as a fat woman, who due to medication eats less that 1200 calories a day and has not lost a single pound, I have to question the validity of our supposed knowledge about calories and their effect on body size. Generalizations, whether they are based on science or not have made it extremely difficult for myself and others like me to get accurate health care. So how do we know what generalizations are good ones and which ones are bad ones?
04/20/09
04/20/09
My bias is clear: I do science, I love science, and I'll always support *good* science, which it's not clear this is. I can't find the study, though, so I can't really say.
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@schweppes: @sciencerules: Thank you both for a well reasoned discussion. It truly helped me understand my own bias better.
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04/20/09
Its really not safe to walk around, not here. not most places, really.
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04/20/09
Basically. I'm from Costco. I'm a big cuddly bargain--OF HUGS.