By the by, I just read the article. It is a call for better research more than it is an actual comprehensive review. The authors conclude, "Our review has identiļ¬ed mainly anecdotes on which consumers and service providers can base their decisions. An acknowledgement of the need for quality research could not be discerned in the literature. "
In other words, their comparison to FGM (which, by the way, comprises a single sentence with no direct support or analysis), was likely used to draw attention to what they see as a dangerous elective surgery whose consequences have not been studied adequately.
However, there are no scientifically valid conclusions drawn in this literature review about medical outcomes of these surgeries, and there is definitely no real comparison made to FGM.
However, hopefully, the authors' wishes will come true, and someone will do a well-controlled clinical study to actual ask the questions that this article raises. #vaginalplasticsurgery
Seeing this image made me think of Wanda Sykes' routine and imagine her saying: "Sorry, it's in the shop right now."
But seriously - most elective surgery, to me, falls into the realm of vanity body-modification, like tattooing, scarification, piercings, or implants, to name a few. If someone wants to do that, research it and consider it carefully. Consider the real reasons behind wanting to do it; It's just possible that finding out why one wants to make a change like this is money much-better-spent. #vaginalplasticsurgery
My ladyflower is totally crying at this article. To undergo the pain and recovery of a labiaplasty, only to have it shred during childbirth? How fucking tragic. The whole thing is just so sad.
Didn't Jenna Jameson have plastic surgery on her labia? And wasn't she horribly depressed by the results? #vaginalplasticsurgery
Ugh. This whole post makes me want to hug every woman I see and tell her, "your vagina is perfectly fine the way it is!" It's the fear of arrest that's stopping me. #vaginalplasticsurgery
I've had sex with nearly 50 people over the course of 17 years, and examined my own bits endlessly, yet it never occurred to me to wonder if my down-there was sub-par. Until I heard of designer vagina surgeries.
Really, I've got no trouble distinguishing between corrective procedures and cosmetic surgeries. My pussy is fucking fine. #vaginalplasticsurgery
Wow, glad I read this. Sometimes I feel like a bad feminist or something because I have a list of plastic surgery I want. Nothing too drastic, I don't think, but shortening one of my labia was on the list. It is on the lengthy side and I do find it a little embarrassing plus tight jeans and no underwear means uncomfortable tugging. But I had no idea that it could have those complications. Loss of sensation, yes, but I didn't know it could tear! That scares me and I will definitely be scratching this off my list.
@Elaken: My labia are definitely larger and floppier than what I see in the adult industry, but I'm ok to live with my 'imperfect' vadge fully intact. It's functional and I'm lucky that I don't have serious problems like cervical cancer or even the annoyance of herpes to deal with. When I put supposedly imperfect labia next to that, it gives me all the perspective I need. Just curious: do you feel that you are deformed in other areas where you want plastic surgery or do you just feel like you could look better? #vaginalplasticsurgery
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@Hippopotame begs you to promote her comments.: Well the only other thing I want that I would consider major is the breast reduction. Everything else is like removal of some moles that I find embarrassing and possibly tightening of skin due to my weight-loss (okay that is major but I am hoping will not be needed).
Like many people I have body issues and just a year ago I probably would have used the word deformed when it came to different aspects, even though that would be a total exaggeration. I am a lot more accepting now and maybe by the time I could afford surgery I will no longer feel the need for it - except for the breasts of course.
I just see how women fall into the trap of needing things done. I feel like if I had one messed up part that is doable but then if this is saggy, and this is too long, and there is a mole here, etc - how can anyone find that attractive? #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Elaken: Interesting. I also have the invisible list of things I would get fixed if I was me-but-not-me-with-my-beliefs: things like little fat pocket under chin removed, tummy lipo, etc. I don't think of mole removal as cosmetic surgery for some reason, maybe because it's so minor, but I guess it is. The same with breast reduction, maybe b/c I hear so many people want it b/c of pain and discomfort. I will probably get moles removed at some point since I have lots of moles and they're getting bigger and bigger. I would also be tempted to get my naso-labial folds 'fixed' with juvederm or whatever it is. I hate myself for wanting this one--heck I'm pissed that I even know what those wrinkles are called! But then I also tell myself that we think of it as totally fine for people to get braces to have straight teeth, so I'm obviously not against all interventions in the body that are about matching an ideal aesthetic (although I didn't have braces and have slightly crooked and very imperfect teeth...which I'd love to get fixed!!). #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Hippopotame begs you to promote her comments.: What I think sucks is I was telling my mom how the guy I am with has a little skin tag in his armpit and I notice it but it is part of him and doesn't bother me at all and in the next breath I was saying how I didn't want to do a certain position because I was all worried about him seeing my mole. lol
He has mostly straight teeth except one slightly crooked tooth which you can just kind of see when he does this grin of his. I love it so much and it sorta of makes me realize if we all fixed ourselves than we really wouldn't have these endearing imperfections. I just wish I could believe people think the same of my faults.
I would never do something like my nose even though I have always disliked it intensely, that is just too much like changing my core architecture. But I am all for the minor fix-ups. It drives my mom insane. She is very against all things, unless for medical necessity. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Elaken: Your ladybits are not the issue. The look of tight jeans without panties are. Just like, toes are not the problem, too-small pointy shoes are the problem.
The solution for problem A: boyshorts. The solution for problem B: get a bigger size and better-made pointy shoes.
That said there are so many conflicting images out there. I've certainly read about things like breast lifts and liposuction, just because there's so much pressure.
@Dancingfrog: I use to never go sans underwear until I had so many people tell me it is much better and now I enjoy it. I also use to never wear tight pants either so I just assumed it was my labia that were the problem with one of my pants. Okay, good to know. #vaginalplasticsurgery
"Some cosmetic procedures ā such as female circumcision reversal, or sex changes for those who want them ā can improve people's quality of life."
I'm glad you mentioned that, because even some vaginoplasty can improve the quality of a woman's life. I actually have a friend who had surgery on her vagina after childbirth due to an adhesion that occurred when she healed badly after some... erm... tearing. It helped relieve a lot of pain for her, and made sex bearable again. It sucks that doctors are advertising these types of procedures to "fix" a perfectly good vagina. It sucks worse that suddenly we have more insecurities piled on us. We're too fat, too skinny, have boobs that are too small, have too much cellulite, and now our labia are too big.
@GirlFailer: You're right, there are occasions when it is definitely needed. I just wonder what drives someone to think, "Oh this needs to look a certain way." I was reading online the other day in a forum I visit and woman wanted to have her labia bleached because they weren't the same color as everything else.
It doesn't make any sense to me. Plastic surgery is enough of a mystery to me to begin with...but a nose job or boob implants makes more sense than "fixing" something that most people aren't going to see. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@psychgirl1221: You know honestly, (and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this) I think it boils down to the porn industry, and the overall portrayal of their idea of what a woman, and her vagina should look like. I think that's a main reason why women think their vaginas look abnormal. Because that's what the industry is showing them. Waxed, bleached, perfectly symmetrical vaginas. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@GirlFailer: Also at the risk of some flammage I will disagree with you. I think it's a lack of porn viewing that perpetuates the myth of "ideal vadge". Anyone who has seen even a moderate amount of porn knows that there is a HUGE variety in genitalia and that it's not a big deal in the end. It's only a very narrow segment of the industry showing "waxed, bleached, perfect symmetry" simply because it seems to be a fairly rare combination of physical traits and surgery. YMMV #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Ferocious Ferret: Okay, I respect your opinion, but I still feel that most "mainstream" porn does, in fact, showcase the "ideal vadge". I know there is a great deal of variety in porn, but I was mostly speaking about the mainstream industry. I should have made that more clear. I would guess that the majority of casual porn watchers are viewing the mainstream companies' porn with the fake boobs, fake hair, fake moans, and bleached buttholes. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Ferocious Ferret: I think the reason the porn industry gets such a bad rep is that the "tame" stuff is the stuff that has most of the plastic-surgery-enhanced people. Playboy, for example. You can never see labia minora, and that's the type of publication that many people see for the first time. Adults read it "for the articles" (and yes, it has some good articles, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that's its real selling point. There are lots of magazines with good articles that aren't porn). It's easy-access stuff.
Now that the grand ol' internet is around, you can photoshop, edit and correct to your heart's content. From what I've seen, the more "hardcore" it is, the less likely it is to have overdone airbrushing.
I don't know. I feel like the softcore porn, the light hardcore stuff shows a lot of computer touchups, and in turn, the "symmetrical" labia majora minus minora. I could be waaaaay off base, though. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@GirlFailer: I will tend to agree with you on this. Most porn I've seen has more umm...natural looking women, and not women with chests that look like the doctor inserted volleyballs. However, I know the stuff exists out there with women who have had every inch of their bodies worked on in some way.
Either way, its a form of body dysmorphia. I think there's a website out there somewhere that shows a variety of (non-aroused) genitalia of women of various ages and ethnicity. It just shows the huge variety of what we look like down there. I wish for the life of me I could remember the website. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@boxspelunker: Agreed. I would also say go over to Fleshbot and take a gander at the vaginas there - which are pretty standardized.
While I don't disagree that there is a veritable rainbow of vaginas to be found in porn, I think the average consumer sees the most prevalent images (which happen to be "ideal"). #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Where The Mild Things Are: It's a bell curve! The most prevalent images, which are airbrushed/edited, are the middle of the curve, and the "extremes" on either end!
The real question is whether or not they are normally distributed :D OH STATISTICS, I HATE YOU. #vaginalplasticsurgery
"what's upsetting about this news is how closely it links plastic surgery to forms of ritual violence done to woman's body."
I would say that, with very few exceptions*, the only difference between most plastic surgery and the ritual acts of violence done to women's bodies is the presence of choice and autonomy. It's a big (very big) difference, but it's not really big enough for me to get behind, say, breast implants.
*Like this post mentioned, gender reassignment surgery, breast reductions, or cleft-lip treatments (is that even considered cosmetic surgery?) don't fall into this category. In situations in which someone is getting facial reconstruction surgery, or something, after an accident or because of some medical problem, that's a whole other kettle of fish as well, but one who's difference from plastic surgery of the nose/boobs/ass fixin' variety is more difficult to articulate. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Cimorene: in a way it is even more fucked up that we don't even need some agent of patriarchy to do it to us, we have just totally absorbed the patriarchal mindset to the point where we discipline, injure and deform our own bodies. That's the real fuck you of enlightenment-based individualism.
@Cimorene: The only difference between most plastic surgery and the ritual acts of violence done to women's bodies is the presence of choice and autonomy.
I'd definitely put choice in quotation marks. No need for an actual male "agent of patriarchy" as @J.D.Regent said. We, women, are agents as well. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Cimorene: Sheila Jeffreys wrote a book called Beauty and Misogyny where she directly compares harmful practices from other countries (foot binding, FGM, etc.) that we all typically see s barbaric or wrong with harmful practices in the west that we see as simply part of a beauty regime, even if the extreme end. The biggest difference is we have 'choice': her argument is that even if you aren't threatened with death for not conforming, there is certainly a lot of social force and coercion involved, and it takes something to resist it. This is not really choice to her, not in the sense we seem to mean it. It's a very provocative argument. #vaginalplasticsurgery
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@Cimorene: Yep. 'Women's culture' often enforces the harmful practice (again, paraphrasing Jeffreys). Women had rituals around footbinding that bonded them together, the special experience of it, and it's often women who want their daughters to do this and FGM (because they did it, because it represents the main chance for 'success' or successful mating in that culture, etc.) Jeffreys looks at western practices from plastic surgery to high heels and the serious damage they can and do cause, and even make-up, which is not regulated by the FDA and contains all kinds of toxic chemicals (according to some scientists). As she puts it, make-up is not an artistic expression--or else we'd have very interesting things painted on our faces. By and large, we conform to the trends of beauty of the time (dark lipliner, the smoky eye, whatever it is), and yet believe we are expressing our individual selves. #vaginalplasticsurgery
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"We live in times where we are much more open about our bodies - and changing them - and labioplasty is simply a part of this"
Slight edit "We live in times where we are much more open about our bodies - and accepting them - and ignoring the misogynistic bastards who want to profit from the insecurities they create is simply a part of this." #vaginalplasticsurgery
To the woman with endometriosis: So I'm 28 and just had a hysterectomy this summer (I had major major fibroids and sex was incredibly painful for years). I don't really have any advice to make it less painful (switch to lots and lots of oral for now?) but I can tell you that even a few months after this surgery, sex finally feels good again.
It's a tough surgery for many reasons, but you're doing the right thing. And not menstruating anymore? Big win! :-) #potpsychology
@MilointheMeadow: Wow. Does a hysterectomy actually work for endometriosis? B/c if the uterine lining is growing on other stuff, it will still be there. Did they remove your ovaries, too? I feel so lucky. I have endometriosis and small fibroids, but they never suggested removing my uterus. #potpsychology
@Faster.Pussycat: I didn't have endo, just abnormally huge fibroids. But my mother suffered from major endo her whole life and finally got a hysterectomy in her 40s. Although her pain is less, there is a lot of remaining scar tissue in her pelvis so she has to deal with all kinds of digestive issues as a result. It's a constant daily struggle for her.
In my case, my doctors just took out my uterus and left the ovaries so I feel lucky that I'm left with eggs if I ever want kids! Which is not likely, but nice to have the option :-) #potpsychology
Rich my son just asked me why you have those funny claws. I told him it was your halloween costume. Then he said, "he's like a POLAR BEAR with those claws!!" Apparently this is the most awesome costume a three year old can think of. #potpsychology
11/11/09
In other words, their comparison to FGM (which, by the way, comprises a single sentence with no direct support or analysis), was likely used to draw attention to what they see as a dangerous elective surgery whose consequences have not been studied adequately.
However, there are no scientifically valid conclusions drawn in this literature review about medical outcomes of these surgeries, and there is definitely no real comparison made to FGM.
However, hopefully, the authors' wishes will come true, and someone will do a well-controlled clinical study to actual ask the questions that this article raises. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
Seeing this image made me think of Wanda Sykes' routine and imagine her saying: "Sorry, it's in the shop right now."
But seriously - most elective surgery, to me, falls into the realm of vanity body-modification, like tattooing, scarification, piercings, or implants, to name a few. If someone wants to do that, research it and consider it carefully. Consider the real reasons behind wanting to do it; It's just possible that finding out why one wants to make a change like this is money much-better-spent. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
Didn't Jenna Jameson have plastic surgery on her labia? And wasn't she horribly depressed by the results? #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
Really, I've got no trouble distinguishing between corrective procedures and cosmetic surgeries. My pussy is fucking fine. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
Like many people I have body issues and just a year ago I probably would have used the word deformed when it came to different aspects, even though that would be a total exaggeration. I am a lot more accepting now and maybe by the time I could afford surgery I will no longer feel the need for it - except for the breasts of course.
I just see how women fall into the trap of needing things done. I feel like if I had one messed up part that is doable but then if this is saggy, and this is too long, and there is a mole here, etc - how can anyone find that attractive? #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
He has mostly straight teeth except one slightly crooked tooth which you can just kind of see when he does this grin of his. I love it so much and it sorta of makes me realize if we all fixed ourselves than we really wouldn't have these endearing imperfections. I just wish I could believe people think the same of my faults.
I would never do something like my nose even though I have always disliked it intensely, that is just too much like changing my core architecture. But I am all for the minor fix-ups. It drives my mom insane. She is very against all things, unless for medical necessity. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
I'm not sure that your longer labia is the issue here. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/12/09
The solution for problem A: boyshorts. The solution for problem B: get a bigger size and better-made pointy shoes.
That said there are so many conflicting images out there. I've certainly read about things like breast lifts and liposuction, just because there's so much pressure.
11/12/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
I might adopt that typo to replace "vajayjay". #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
(sung to the tune of Bananas in Pajamas) #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
Ok, I'm done. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
FIN. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
I'm glad you mentioned that, because even some vaginoplasty can improve the quality of a woman's life. I actually have a friend who had surgery on her vagina after childbirth due to an adhesion that occurred when she healed badly after some... erm... tearing. It helped relieve a lot of pain for her, and made sex bearable again. It sucks that doctors are advertising these types of procedures to "fix" a perfectly good vagina. It sucks worse that suddenly we have more insecurities piled on us. We're too fat, too skinny, have boobs that are too small, have too much cellulite, and now our labia are too big.
11/11/09
It doesn't make any sense to me. Plastic surgery is enough of a mystery to me to begin with...but a nose job or boob implants makes more sense than "fixing" something that most people aren't going to see. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
Now that the grand ol' internet is around, you can photoshop, edit and correct to your heart's content. From what I've seen, the more "hardcore" it is, the less likely it is to have overdone airbrushing.
I don't know. I feel like the softcore porn, the light hardcore stuff shows a lot of computer touchups, and in turn, the "symmetrical" labia majora minus minora. I could be waaaaay off base, though. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
Either way, its a form of body dysmorphia. I think there's a website out there somewhere that shows a variety of (non-aroused) genitalia of women of various ages and ethnicity. It just shows the huge variety of what we look like down there. I wish for the life of me I could remember the website. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
While I don't disagree that there is a veritable rainbow of vaginas to be found in porn, I think the average consumer sees the most prevalent images (which happen to be "ideal"). #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
The real question is whether or not they are normally distributed :D OH STATISTICS, I HATE YOU. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
I would say that, with very few exceptions*, the only difference between most plastic surgery and the ritual acts of violence done to women's bodies is the presence of choice and autonomy. It's a big (very big) difference, but it's not really big enough for me to get behind, say, breast implants.
*Like this post mentioned, gender reassignment surgery, breast reductions, or cleft-lip treatments (is that even considered cosmetic surgery?) don't fall into this category. In situations in which someone is getting facial reconstruction surgery, or something, after an accident or because of some medical problem, that's a whole other kettle of fish as well, but one who's difference from plastic surgery of the nose/boobs/ass fixin' variety is more difficult to articulate. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
I'd definitely put choice in quotation marks. No need for an actual male "agent of patriarchy" as @J.D.Regent said. We, women, are agents as well. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
Slight edit "We live in times where we are much more open about our bodies - and accepting them - and ignoring the misogynistic bastards who want to profit from the insecurities they create is simply a part of this." #vaginalplasticsurgery
10/31/09
It's a tough surgery for many reasons, but you're doing the right thing. And not menstruating anymore? Big win! :-) #potpsychology
10/31/09
11/01/09
In my case, my doctors just took out my uterus and left the ovaries so I feel lucky that I'm left with eggs if I ever want kids! Which is not likely, but nice to have the option :-) #potpsychology
10/31/09
10/30/09