@kiwibelle: I don't think I would go so far to say that the terrorism is our fault, because while we did fuck up the Middle East, the terrorists are the ones who chose their methods.
The US has its faults, but what I'm reading from that caption is that Pakistanis are upset that our pursuance of the terrorists (in a possibly misguided attempt to fix our mistakes of the past) pissed them off and they reacted violently.
I think my main issue is that the protest signs call for the downfall of the US. How about "Down with Terrorists" instead? #punjabuniversity
@kiwibelle: Well, but you know why the Taliban is in Pakistan, right? Because their government has provided them safe haven along the Afghan border. Then when the shit hit the fan and it came to their attention that "Hey, they're kind of mean and don't like us either!" they "allowed" us to at least cross borders to find Taliban outposts.
In turn, terrorists did what they do, they terrorize innocent victims, and now everyone says "OMG, if the US had just stayed out of our country, this never would've happened."
Hence my "lay down with dogs, get up with fleas" comment below. #punjabuniversity
@lollapulizer: They want the U.S. to go down because they hate this country. We have everything and they have nothing.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure any one of those folks would jump at a chance to come to the U.S. and become a citizen but while they're in Pakistan they pretty much are going to hate our guts.
So i'm not sure of what to think about "terrorists". I mean it must take something pretty hard core to turn a person so cold. I've never thought of these faceless "terrorists" as thrill killers. I hope I don't sound like I think of what they're doing as a good thing because I don't. But "blame the terrorists" seems to be a throw away argument as 1. everyone keeps saying that and 2. it isn't going to make the terrorists go away.
In nations of wealth and stability this type of thought process isn't normal. That's why we don't understand them. We have a good life in this country and have no idea what really goes on in this world beyond CNN/Fox/MSN. Putting in money to help build the country and help the people would be better then military aide and would help us in not having the Pakistani people hate us so much. They don't see anything except 1. more people are dying 2. the attacks have increased since the U.S. began their wars in the middle east and 3. their country is more in shambles then ever 4. the money the U.S. is providing isn't doing them any good but is putting their government into western debt and pocket.
@lollapulizer: The distinction between terrorists and people trying to get rid of terrorists is pretty academic when the one blows up your police station and the other bombs your wedding party. #punjabuniversity
@kiwibelle: wow, i really have to take issue with the first two paragraphs of your post.
'we have everything and they have nothing'? really? how about hundreds of years of culture? how about a rich and colorful history? does that count as 'nothing' because its not the same as what we have?
also, do you REALLY think 'any of those folks would jump at a chance to come to the U.S'? really? I'm not sure where you're getting this from, but the fact is, as citizens of the commonwealth Pakistanis were, in fact, allowed to migrate to the UK up until the 70's and millions (most) of them chose NOT to. Yes, it is not the 70's now, and the UK is not the U.S, but really, unless you have ANY facts to back up your (in my opinion ridiculous) statement, what you're saying is purely conjecture and should not be stated as fact.
Furthermore, Pakistani's, as a people, do not hate America or Americans. Yes, there are many that do - just as there are many AMERICANS/Britons/Australians etc that hate American and Americans.
In addition, you have missed out two key points (you really should read up more on this issue if you are interested enough it in it to comment) 1. We (the U.S Govt) paid the Pakistani govt millions of $ during the Cold War to house/arm/train the Taliban in secret. WE put these people there. They do not belong to the same ethnic groups as those native to the NWFP. WE put them there.
2. Most articles point out that the protests against America stem from the Taliban stance against Pakistan based on the Pakistani governments support of U.S policy. I would imagine, then (and many articles make this point, such as a couple posted on the huffington post) that these educated and liberal women are protesting OUR role in what has made THEIR country a hotbed of violence.
I'm not saying I agree with the sentiment of 'down with U.S.A, obviously. What I'm saying is that I strongly disagree with your statement/assumption/whatever it is, that they 'have nothing' and they 'see nothing'. These people do not live in caves. #punjabuniversity
@rd2uk: Why are you being so smart and wonky? This is the post-Megan Jezebel, where we talk about about how much Hillary kicks ass when she lobbies for more troops in Afghanistan, and where we analyze health care with rap videos. We don't parse issues here anymore, lame-o! Don't be such a DOWNER!
@BearDownCBears: where do i find these healthcare rap videos? clearly with all this actually reading and checking up on facts iv missed out on the good stuff! #punjabuniversity
@rd2uk: My intention was not to put down Pakistani's or Pakistan but to point out the issue is complex and that the life style in this country prohibits us from understanding the situation in other countries. American's do lead a charmed life in the world. And the reason I say this is because we are the biggest consumer as a nation in the world.
I was not referring to culture as I do not think that is measurable.
Your item number 2 is basically what I was trying to say. As far as the immigration statement I made, it was a generalization, I will admit that but I still stick by it. I personally think most people in the world (especially those in third world countries) want to be here it probably stems from the fact that my family are immigrants to this country.
The day I say I know everything is the day I become a fool. My opinions are not fact. You have a good day. =)
@labeled: I don't think it's just that though. I also think they're upset that their politicians are lining their pocket with U.S. government money and becoming puppets for the west.
From what I understand, corruption is rampant in the country and the U.S actually hasn't been able to track dollars given to Pakistan. #punjabuniversity
The more I see this as I scroll down the Jez main page, the more it pisses me off. Listen, we're not the problem here, people, no matter how much you want to make us the problem.
There's an old adage about lying down with dogs and getting up with fleas. I don't see that beautifully illustrated on snazzy little signs.
But it's our fault. Natch. What do I know about the Taliban and terrorism and whatnot. #punjabuniversity
This might make me a horrible person. Those are some of the nicest (as in, most attractive) protest signs I've ever seen in my life. The handwriting is spectacular. We need to get our protesters to learn this skill, because those are phenomenal. The two "Down with USA up up Pakistan!" signs in the front in particular are delightful. #punjabuniversity
@lolabee: Yeah, I'm actually finding myself less able to be shocked by anti-US protests anymore. "Yeah yeah, they hate us but WOW that's some fantastic handwriting!" #punjabuniversity
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: I, too, deplore the crappy handwriting on most American protest signs. Every time I see them, I want to scream, "HAVE YOU NEVER HEARD OF STENCILS?" #punjabuniversity
Bin Laden / Al Qaeda have claimed all along that unless the US entirely leaves the Middle East, Israel is dissolved, Muslims are released from jails worldwide, and the region accepts sharia law, they will not work for peace or compromise.
Without any of these likely to occur, why would anyone characterize Al Qaeda as "diplomatic" - they've made it very clear that they will not compromise on these basic principles?
Am I to believe they're ready to cross an item off their list? Not bloody likely.
They can't confirm that the tape is him. That's been true for a lot of tapes released by Al Qaeda that purport to be from Osama Bin Laden. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but sometimes I wonder if the man himself might not have died and they're getting impersonators and Tupaq'ing it.
THESE PEOPLE ARE TERRORISTS. Why is that so difficult for the government to fathom? If they were making these threats against anyone else they'd be thrown into prison. After 9/11 people were held and questioned just because they were Middle Eastern. I can't say the word 'bomb' anywhere in an airport without being detained and interrogated and searched, for a damn good reason. I can't even take a bottle of water on an airplane. After all the violence against abortion providers and clinics, why isn't there at least some level of the vigilance there was and still is after 9/11? I don't mean to say that this is on the same level as 9/11, but these are religious extremists, terrorists attacking doctors and their patients for obtaining and performing legal, safe medical procedures, on American soil! Why are they getting away with this bullshit? Where is the outrage, besides from here?
I've seen Dr. Carhart appear on several news programs to discuss what he does and Dr. Tiller's murder. He's an amazing man for what his beliefs and actions, but I don't know how I feel about him being made into a quasi-flack for the pro-choice side, and that's what's happening when middle America tunes in to these shows.
He's not a brilliant speaker (not that I should cast a stone) and I wonder if the way he articulates our arguments is helping or harming. Very few people are given such public platforms to voice pro-choice sentiments in this increasingly silent culture, and I don't think it's fair to him or us that he be placed in the position he's been put in here.
These people are domestic terrorists like Timothy McVeigh so can I make a citizens arrest? Or should I just email the FBI and remind the morons of this?? Assholes
@MissFiFi: I'm really confused by the US Government's failure to call these acts what they are: terrorism.
I mean, I know he's got other things on his mind, but c'mon Obama!
10/20/09
While there are probably plenty of reasons for Pakistanis to be upset with the US, I really feel like the anger is misdirected here.
10/20/09
We have all the money and power in the world, we stir sh*t up and rarely pay for our actions.
I mostly love this country but we're f*ck up in many ways. #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
The US has its faults, but what I'm reading from that caption is that Pakistanis are upset that our pursuance of the terrorists (in a possibly misguided attempt to fix our mistakes of the past) pissed them off and they reacted violently.
I think my main issue is that the protest signs call for the downfall of the US. How about "Down with Terrorists" instead? #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
[www.salon.com] #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
In turn, terrorists did what they do, they terrorize innocent victims, and now everyone says "OMG, if the US had just stayed out of our country, this never would've happened."
Hence my "lay down with dogs, get up with fleas" comment below. #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
If it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure any one of those folks would jump at a chance to come to the U.S. and become a citizen but while they're in Pakistan they pretty much are going to hate our guts.
So i'm not sure of what to think about "terrorists". I mean it must take something pretty hard core to turn a person so cold. I've never thought of these faceless "terrorists" as thrill killers. I hope I don't sound like I think of what they're doing as a good thing because I don't. But "blame the terrorists" seems to be a throw away argument as 1. everyone keeps saying that and 2. it isn't going to make the terrorists go away.
In nations of wealth and stability this type of thought process isn't normal. That's why we don't understand them. We have a good life in this country and have no idea what really goes on in this world beyond CNN/Fox/MSN. Putting in money to help build the country and help the people would be better then military aide and would help us in not having the Pakistani people hate us so much. They don't see anything except 1. more people are dying 2. the attacks have increased since the U.S. began their wars in the middle east and 3. their country is more in shambles then ever 4. the money the U.S. is providing isn't doing them any good but is putting their government into western debt and pocket.
10/20/09
10/20/09
'we have everything and they have nothing'? really? how about hundreds of years of culture? how about a rich and colorful history? does that count as 'nothing' because its not the same as what we have?
also, do you REALLY think 'any of those folks would jump at a chance to come to the U.S'? really? I'm not sure where you're getting this from, but the fact is, as citizens of the commonwealth Pakistanis were, in fact, allowed to migrate to the UK up until the 70's and millions (most) of them chose NOT to. Yes, it is not the 70's now, and the UK is not the U.S, but really, unless you have ANY facts to back up your (in my opinion ridiculous) statement, what you're saying is purely conjecture and should not be stated as fact.
Furthermore, Pakistani's, as a people, do not hate America or Americans. Yes, there are many that do - just as there are many AMERICANS/Britons/Australians etc that hate American and Americans.
In addition, you have missed out two key points (you really should read up more on this issue if you are interested enough it in it to comment) 1. We (the U.S Govt) paid the Pakistani govt millions of $ during the Cold War to house/arm/train the Taliban in secret. WE put these people there. They do not belong to the same ethnic groups as those native to the NWFP. WE put them there.
2. Most articles point out that the protests against America stem from the Taliban stance against Pakistan based on the Pakistani governments support of U.S policy. I would imagine, then (and many articles make this point, such as a couple posted on the huffington post) that these educated and liberal women are protesting OUR role in what has made THEIR country a hotbed of violence.
I'm not saying I agree with the sentiment of 'down with U.S.A, obviously. What I'm saying is that I strongly disagree with your statement/assumption/whatever it is, that they 'have nothing' and they 'see nothing'. These people do not live in caves. #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
(I feel ya) #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/21/09
I was not referring to culture as I do not think that is measurable.
Your item number 2 is basically what I was trying to say. As far as the immigration statement I made, it was a generalization, I will admit that but I still stick by it. I personally think most people in the world (especially those in third world countries) want to be here it probably stems from the fact that my family are immigrants to this country.
The day I say I know everything is the day I become a fool. My opinions are not fact. You have a good day. =)
10/21/09
From what I understand, corruption is rampant in the country and the U.S actually hasn't been able to track dollars given to Pakistan. #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
There's an old adage about lying down with dogs and getting up with fleas. I don't see that beautifully illustrated on snazzy little signs.
But it's our fault. Natch. What do I know about the Taliban and terrorism and whatnot. #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
Oh yeah? Well, I counter with… #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: What, our crayon use and illiteracy aren't good enough for you? #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/12/09
09/14/09
Without any of these likely to occur, why would anyone characterize Al Qaeda as "diplomatic" - they've made it very clear that they will not compromise on these basic principles?
Am I to believe they're ready to cross an item off their list? Not bloody likely.
09/14/09
09/14/09
09/14/09
09/14/09
09/14/09
09/14/09
09/14/09
08/28/09
08/28/09
He's not a brilliant speaker (not that I should cast a stone) and I wonder if the way he articulates our arguments is helping or harming. Very few people are given such public platforms to voice pro-choice sentiments in this increasingly silent culture, and I don't think it's fair to him or us that he be placed in the position he's been put in here.
08/28/09
08/28/09
I mean, I know he's got other things on his mind, but c'mon Obama!