This is disappointing. I really enjoyed their last book where they hypothesized that crime went down because of abortion being legal. #superfreakonomics
This language of this post suggests there's a lot of "pinning" and "blaming" done by the authors, even while they leave a lot of other potential issues "unclear."
I haven't read the new book yet, but the original one just seemed like a compendium of propositions supported by individual (smallish, but interesting) data studies. It didn't purport to "pin" or "blame" or even draw final conclusions about anything -- thus it was necessarily incomplete. The original book just presented the outcomes of certain (again, smallish) studies and proposed that final answers to the questions posed would have to take those outcomes into consideration -- even if the outcomes and book wound up being thoroughly debunked, which is part of the progress of science anyway.
Is the new book as different from the original as this post strongly suggests? If true, that fact seems like it would be worth an explicit mention or two.
The problem with Freakonomics is that economists working outside of economics don't provide really insightful research most of the time. They tend to skip over research done in other fields, assuming all the answers are in large data sets. #superfreakonomics
Wow, yeah IQ tests being largely debunked as a precise measure of overall intelligence.
But hey when you're using flawed logic you may as well back it up with equally flawed data! #superfreakonomics
@zu_zu: IQ tests are far from precise, but they aren't total bullshit. They're more accurate at the low end, so a doubling of teachers in the lowest 20% does say something. #superfreakonomics
@clevernamehere: My issue with IQ tests is that they measure one type of intelligence. There's the added factor that you can "learn" to improve your score on them without markedly increasing your overall intelligence. As an education major it just makes me cringe that this narrow test of intellectual capability still carries so much weight. #superfreakonomics
Can someone please explain to me how the world is supposed to be peopled if not by women having children? Not every single douche mentioning how women 'choose' family over work, or take child-friendly jobs can be childless himself, for the end of civilization (i.e. against reproduction) or a father against his will. How the hell do they suppose this has to come about? #superfreakonomics
Rather, they champion a series of cool-sounding inventions like a hose that would squirt sulfur dioxide into the stratosphere, blotting out just enough light to cool the earth
Clearly, Monsieurs Levitt and Dubner are not familiar with the expression "end of pipe solution". #superfreakonomics
@funzette: That makes me want to scream. WHAT THE HELL. Seriously! Do you think blocking light will make things better or worse? Blocking light = plants not getting enough light to grow and process things in the atmosphere = stunted food production = more starvation. Also, blocking light = more pollution. DO YOU THINK, SIR/MADAM.
agh agh aghggghhhhhh blargle this is the worst idea ever. #superfreakonomics
This is crazy shit. How could you even begin to think it was a good idea, after you had thought about it for more than about 5 or 6 seconds? #superfreakonomics
@boxspelunker: Al Gore's response was surprisingly civil, considering - he probably wanted to say what you said but was restraining himself. #superfreakonomics
@boxspelunker: It's just more fun to come up with 3rd rate sci-fi solutions to real-life problems than to give up any of the modern luxuries we have today.
This sort of unwavering faith in endless progress and an endless upward curve in the economy drives me nuts. "Oh, we don't need to do anything! The white-haired team of einsteins in their privately funded lab will come up with something that'll save us all from near-certain doom! Let's go drive around the block in the Hummer while we wait for the giant acid rain pipeline to the sky!"
@CassandraSays: Good on him! I am not totally sure that I'd be calm and nice about it :/
@Catabolic: Yeah, that's what gets me, too. There's a belief that someone will just come save you. You don't need to change your habits - just buy the new product and don't worry about a thing! I mean, we're all in this together, and I think we're all going to have to change what we do, a little bit. Yeah, the few things I do myself won't make a difference, but if a thousand people do them, there will be change. So jump on the train, people, because it's better for all of us! #superfreakonomics
I was pretty disappointed to see John Stewart give Levitt a total pass when he was on the Daily Show. This book is pretty silly and, IMHO, trying to uphold the status quo, which I thought we had all gotten to the point of agreeing isn't working perfectly.
And what is so wrong with trying to conserve some fossil fuels? They're going to run out sooner or later anyway, so we might as well start figuring out our next step. #superfreakonomics
@HarpMadness: I haven't read the book, but on the show Levitt specifically said they weren't arguing against conserving fossil fuels per se, simply that conserving fossil fuels alone is not enough to repair the environment in time.
He went on to say that geo-engineering solutions are attractive because they would work faster, thereby giving conservation more time to work. He admits that running a tube into the sky is just a short-term fix, but that it would give longer term solutions time to be implemented and have an effect. #superfreakonomics
@KurticusMaximus: Yeah, I heard him, but at the same time, I felt that the book specifically attacks conservation and I think that is short-sighted. I do not understand the resistance to conservation. #superfreakonomics
@KurticusMaximus: so while i'm not a climate scientist, i am a biologist, and can tell you that most of these geo-engineering ideas are bullshit and create more problems than they solve (and they would only work faster if we currently had the technology to implement them, which we do not). i admire the creativity people are using to come up with them, but we would be much better off if this creativity went towards reducing methane and Co2 production. #superfreakonomics
@HarpMadness: I didn't see that he said conservation is without value. His point was that conservation would take 50 years to be effective, and so is not really a practical solution. I do agree with him - we as a species are not willing to make real sacrifices - so we need to look to alternatives. #superfreakonomics
@ms.fortune: For one thing, maybe we as a species need to grow up then. Secondly, sure, explore alternatives, but as Isoperia notes, all of the "solutions" mentioned in this book are pretty much pipe dreams at this point. We don't have the technology right now and who knows how long it would take to develop the tech and then implement them? One thing we can do right now, today, is stop making the situation worse by conservation. It's not that hard. #superfreakonomics
"The quality of teachers is been declining for decades"? Shouldn't that be "has been declining for decades"?
Perhaps part of the problem is the declining quality of NYC public school chancellors. Unlike the chancellor, I'm sure many of the aforementioned sub-standard teachers still know the difference between "is" and "has". #superfreakonomics
@hej hej: That's my typo though, not his. Should be fixed now. Someday we'll have totally searchable books that you can copy and paste from, and I won't have to use voice rec to dictate and introduce errors. Ah, the future. #superfreakonomics
@Anna N.: It's no problem!
I was only offended because I thought it was his typo, and as such made his criticism of sub-standard teachers kind of irrelevant. #superfreakonomics
@ozu: Of course I would. When George W. Bush asked "Is our children learning?" I immediately began to question his credibility on the subject of education reform. #superfreakonomics
The real reasons teachers aren't that good today (although I don't subscribe to the "good old days" doctrine, I don't know if they were particularly fantastic ever) are (among many, many other things):
a) The students - male and female - who are best at subjects aren't steered toward education degrees. There's still the unspoken rule of "those who can't do, teach." If you're really good at science, you're encouraged to go into research, medicine, engineering, etc. If you're really good at music, you're put on the track to be an orchestral musician, composer, or conductor. It's people who are just okay, not great, who are encouraged to go into education.
b) When you do get someone who is really stellar who decides to go into education because it's their passion and whatnot, they're often met with hostility from other teachers who embrace mediocrity, or even from administrators. The truth is, whether they admit it or not, a lot of public schools are hostile to people who are innovative or who rock the boat. And the worse a school is, the more likely this is to be the case, which is why ailing schools continue to get only the worst teachers except in the case of incentives like Teach for America. My mom's a teacher who passionately supports the need for public schools, but she's finally been driven into teaching at private schools just because she can't take it anymore.
Of course, it's a lot easier to just blame the problem on women's liberation and not question why it's a woman's job to do the teaching, and why we can't just elevate the teaching profession so that top students of both sexes are encouraged to pursue teaching, and reform schools more so that they don't drive the best teachers out. #superfreakonomics
@Erda: When I first entered college, I thought I wanted to go into Education. The people in admissions took one look at my HS transcript and SATs and said no -- I needed to do something else. Really. I was very impressionable and took their advice (I was sort of being pushed into it by my mother anyway). But, really, telling a student they are too smart to go into education? That is just wrong. That attitude is not helping fix thing. #superfreakonomics
@HarpMadness: I like the way my music conservatory does it; music education majors have to major in performance on an instrument or voice as well, so essentially they have to meet the same standards for admission as the students who are solely performance majors. And because it means they're doing extra work, music ed is actually one of the hardest programs, so it weeds out the idiots and slackers (a lot of people drop ed after first semester and just do performance) and encourages more highly-motivated students to go into it. And ed majors at our school are seen as smarter and more driven than the other students - the exact opposite of the way my friends at other universities describe the typical ed major in their classes.
That's one way to help fix the teacher crisis; rather than having ed programs be the "easier" version of a regular major, make it a regular major plus education classes.
@Erda: Lots of universities already require education majors have a major in addition to a teacher certificate program, particularly if they are going for 6th grade or higher. I think the bad rap has more to do with people's perceptions than the actual coursework. #superfreakonomics
But there is discrimination and it's not minor and there are worthwhile econometric studies behind that.
Additionally, women are disincentivized from seeking out better paying opportunities or returning to work after kids and so often discrimination is masked as women making a personal choice--it can be masked in the data, in Superfreakonomics, everywhere. #superfreakonomics
@Faster.Pussycat: Yeah, seriously. They also seem to ignore the fact that soc/psych fields responded by researching and publicizing the bystander effect... which has NOTHING to do with evil Americans or apathy. I've never heard the case described (in recent years anyway) in such sensationalized terms. #superfreakonomics
@myevilempire: I hate that they seemed to have skipped over the bystander effect and the piles of research from that case. This is why I'm always bitching to my economist friend- people in econ constantly publish studies outside their field without checking what other people have done. #superfreakonomics
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11/05/09
I haven't read the new book yet, but the original one just seemed like a compendium of propositions supported by individual (smallish, but interesting) data studies. It didn't purport to "pin" or "blame" or even draw final conclusions about anything -- thus it was necessarily incomplete. The original book just presented the outcomes of certain (again, smallish) studies and proposed that final answers to the questions posed would have to take those outcomes into consideration -- even if the outcomes and book wound up being thoroughly debunked, which is part of the progress of science anyway.
Is the new book as different from the original as this post strongly suggests? If true, that fact seems like it would be worth an explicit mention or two.
11/04/09
11/04/09
But hey when you're using flawed logic you may as well back it up with equally flawed data! #superfreakonomics
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Clearly, Monsieurs Levitt and Dubner are not familiar with the expression "end of pipe solution". #superfreakonomics
11/04/09
agh agh aghggghhhhhh blargle this is the worst idea ever. #superfreakonomics
11/04/09
11/04/09
This is crazy shit. How could you even begin to think it was a good idea, after you had thought about it for more than about 5 or 6 seconds? #superfreakonomics
11/04/09
11/05/09
This sort of unwavering faith in endless progress and an endless upward curve in the economy drives me nuts. "Oh, we don't need to do anything! The white-haired team of einsteins in their privately funded lab will come up with something that'll save us all from near-certain doom! Let's go drive around the block in the Hummer while we wait for the giant acid rain pipeline to the sky!"
*stab stab stab* #superfreakonomics
11/05/09
@Catabolic: Yeah, that's what gets me, too. There's a belief that someone will just come save you. You don't need to change your habits - just buy the new product and don't worry about a thing! I mean, we're all in this together, and I think we're all going to have to change what we do, a little bit. Yeah, the few things I do myself won't make a difference, but if a thousand people do them, there will be change. So jump on the train, people, because it's better for all of us! #superfreakonomics
11/04/09
And what is so wrong with trying to conserve some fossil fuels? They're going to run out sooner or later anyway, so we might as well start figuring out our next step. #superfreakonomics
11/04/09
He went on to say that geo-engineering solutions are attractive because they would work faster, thereby giving conservation more time to work. He admits that running a tube into the sky is just a short-term fix, but that it would give longer term solutions time to be implemented and have an effect. #superfreakonomics
11/04/09
11/04/09
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11/04/09
11/04/09
Perhaps part of the problem is the declining quality of NYC public school chancellors. Unlike the chancellor, I'm sure many of the aforementioned sub-standard teachers still know the difference between "is" and "has". #superfreakonomics
11/04/09
11/04/09
I was only offended because I thought it was his typo, and as such made his criticism of sub-standard teachers kind of irrelevant. #superfreakonomics
11/04/09
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11/04/09
a) The students - male and female - who are best at subjects aren't steered toward education degrees. There's still the unspoken rule of "those who can't do, teach." If you're really good at science, you're encouraged to go into research, medicine, engineering, etc. If you're really good at music, you're put on the track to be an orchestral musician, composer, or conductor. It's people who are just okay, not great, who are encouraged to go into education.
b) When you do get someone who is really stellar who decides to go into education because it's their passion and whatnot, they're often met with hostility from other teachers who embrace mediocrity, or even from administrators. The truth is, whether they admit it or not, a lot of public schools are hostile to people who are innovative or who rock the boat. And the worse a school is, the more likely this is to be the case, which is why ailing schools continue to get only the worst teachers except in the case of incentives like Teach for America. My mom's a teacher who passionately supports the need for public schools, but she's finally been driven into teaching at private schools just because she can't take it anymore.
Of course, it's a lot easier to just blame the problem on women's liberation and not question why it's a woman's job to do the teaching, and why we can't just elevate the teaching profession so that top students of both sexes are encouraged to pursue teaching, and reform schools more so that they don't drive the best teachers out. #superfreakonomics
11/04/09
11/04/09
That's one way to help fix the teacher crisis; rather than having ed programs be the "easier" version of a regular major, make it a regular major plus education classes.
11/04/09
11/04/09
Additionally, women are disincentivized from seeking out better paying opportunities or returning to work after kids and so often discrimination is masked as women making a personal choice--it can be masked in the data, in Superfreakonomics, everywhere. #superfreakonomics
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