I give huge props to the American adoptive father. It appears that some of these mothers would consider raising their child instead of adoption if the severe shame associated with it was erased. Promoting international adoption has its problems when a parent who otherwise would like to keep their baby are shamed into giving them up.
"The government pays a monthly allowance of $85 per child to those who adopt children. It offers half that for single mothers of dependent children."
That's so depressing.
I've asked a friend who identifies as libertarian before, if the (American) government should provide money to poor mothers and parents who cannot afford to support their children without food stamps, or welfare, and he says that if you can't afford kids, you shouldn't have them. Which ironically means he thinks the government should step in and take the kids away. However, he realizes that it would then take money to fund the foster system to take these kids in. He's fine with that, and would prefer that we pay money to keep kids in the foster system, than with parents who don't "deserve" the kids, because they are too poor. In other words, we shouldn't pay people to parent their own kids, we should pay other people to parent the kids, regardless of how harmful it is to the kids. I think a lot of people have these judgments against poor parents and single moms on welfare, even in America.
I really think the bigger problem has to do with people NOT talking about sex and birth control. Sex in Korea (and I guess many other Asian countries) is still a shameful thing and unacceptable to practice until you're lawfully wed. This is a country that built a "sex amusement park" to teach newlyweds how to get down and dirty after all...
Young people often live with their parents until they're married, so they have nowhere to go get laid really -- hence the love motels and lots of cars parked on select riverside areas at night time. Birth control still isn't practiced widely enough (guys don't want to use rubber, girls don't know what their options are and where they can get'em). The social perception of "going against the norm" is of course a huge problem as well, but I think there really needs to be more awareness about sex and protection.
My son is South Korean and we adopted him just a few months ago. From what we know, his parents were high school sweethearts but they were very young and didn't want to marry when she got pregnant. He went in to the army and she went to a home for unwed mothers because of the social stigma she faced. In addition, there also tend to be more boys than girls for adoption because to be born out of wedlock means you are born with shame on your name, which can only be lifted for a woman when she marries and takes her husband's name. The boys are stuck with it. These are some very ancient lines of thought and from what we encountered in Seoul, it seems like there are more and more young people who think it's ridiculous and hope the climate becomes better for unwed mothers.
I have a weird conflict here though, because I wouldn't have my son if things were different.
@artyfarty: We don't take our husbands' names actually -- though the kids usually get the dad's last name -- so I'm not sure if the boy/girl theory is accurate. However, the social stigma stuff is all depressingly correct.
@artyfarty: I'm not sure -- boys are favored over girls in general, but I guess that's not altogether relevant...!
By the way, just want to say I really admire you for providing a family and home for your son. I am one of those annoying, nationalistic people that loves to discuss anything Korean... and the number of kids given up for adoption there is really sad. My mother did a couple of trips to the U.S. in the early 80s to 'deliver' adopted kids, as sort of a side job, and she says she still thinks about those kids and what would have happened to them if they hadn't been able to find a family. She was pregnant with me at the time, so it really stayed with her.
@bananafish: That was really kind of you to say and I admire your mom for escorting the kids. We went to Seoul to get our son so we could meet his foster mother and to be able to tell him what his homeland is was like firsthand when he's older. We really loved it there and hope we can take him back.
What is the perceived connection between single motherhood and dishonesty? I mean there has to be a (probably ridiculous and irrational) reason for that assumption...
@Brigit: I think the "dishonesty" is perceived through the lens of "Well, you aren't married -which of course is the "LEGITIMATE" way in which to conceive a child- so therefore, you have become pregnant "ILLEGITIMATELY", which of course is WRONG, which of course is dishonest."
@all: Thanks. I know that obviously this kind of belief is irrational. I was just wondering on the cultural basis for such a belief. But the dishonesty-legitimacy and dishonesty-by withholding-info arguments make "sense".
Everyone deserves a loving father, but to punish women for choosing to be alone is horrific. There should be no stigma...but then again, I see the United States where there isn't any stigma... the 16 year old neice of my best friend just slept with several men in order to get pregant (she got what she wanted, and doesn't care who the father is). Although her family don't support her decision (they want her to finish school and go to college), she has no fear of her situation because as she says "that's why they made welfare!" There has to be some kind of middle ground, no?
@PoisonPixie: What sort of middle ground? Stigma and shame against unwed teen mothers? Poor mothers? Minority mothers? But no stigma for rich, white mothers?
I think your friend's niece's actions can be judged on their own as being very short-sighted, and I don't know if a stigma against teen parenthood (which I think exists already anyway) really would have changed her mind. It certainly won't help her now that she has a child. Hopefully your friend is looking forward to being a great-aunt, because it sounds like that kid might need it.
That American adoptive father is pretty awesome. To advocate for a group that he's not a part of, and focus on a group like this instead of just focusing on the adoptive children, is pretty freaking amazing.
I commend these women on facing such difficult pressure and raising their children as single mothers, but I have to say, as an adopted Asian kid myself, reading the first quote about the woman who said that putting her son up for adoption "felt as if I had thrown him into the trash" was pretty disturbing.
I'm not saying adoption's the way to go for everyone. I think women should get to choose what happens when they're pregnant, whether it's abortion, adoption or keeping their child. But opting for adoption isn't throwing away children.
@midwestdesigner: I think (and of course I might be wrong) that adoption could feel like throwing away your child because they have no control of where and under what circumstances will the child live. So although they might be hoping for the best, they also know the child could end up in a variety of fucked-up, awful circumstances and they are powerless to help them.
But yes I certainly agree that giving a child up for adoption is giving a child a chance to a better life.
@midwestdesigner: someone might beat me to it, but to me it seems that when she says "felt as if i had thrown him into the trash", i think she's saying it more out of regret. because she also says "It felt as if the earth had stopped turning." it seems like she felt like she was abandoning the child by letting the adoption agency take it.
either way, it's a pretty heartbreaking statement.
@elliotellsworth: Yes, she's grieving her decision, and it sounds like she made the right one for her situation by going back and getting her son back. But, she's still comparing adoption to abandonment and throwing away kids. I just think the perception of adoption and the language used to discuss it could use some work. (I also cringed about seeing the phrase "natural mother" in that article. My adopted mother's not my unnatural mom.)
It always gets me how the men involved don't suffer the same stigma. Women don't get pregnant by themselves.
It's almost hard to imagine that kind of thing goes on in the 21st century.
@sarathelaundress: Even though they don't share the blame, they should get to decide what the woman does with the baby, according to 'the rules'. Not sure if you read the NYTimes article, but:
"Chang Ji-young, 27, who gave birth to a boy last month, said: "My former boyfriend’s sister screamed at me over the phone demanding that I get an abortion. His mother and sister said it was up to them to decide what to do with my baby because it was their family’s seed.""
Also, children almost always goes to the father in case of divorce. (Not necessarily a bad thing, but women are still the primary child raisers in a traditional Korean family.)
Ugh. Add this to the fact that in S. Korea, the father must register the child as a citizen in order for the child to be legally recognized by the government (unless that law has been changed recently), and you have even more shaming on those women who've had children out of wedlock. Of course, the men get off scot-free.
Families with deadbeat dad sons sometimes move and change their numbers to avoid them. Deadbeat dads often lie about their marital status for fear they will be evicted by landlords and their children ostracized at school. Only about a quarter of South Koreans are willing to have a close relationship with a deadbeat dad as a coworker or neighbor, according to a recent survey by the government-financed Korean Women's Development Institute.
@SarahMC: TO be fair, there is indeed a huge stigma against deadbeat dads in Korea. A man who abandons his family is not a man at all. And the withering scorn of a Korean women may in fact be a weapon of torture under the Geneva Convention.
@SarahMC: I'm already hormonal today. But that is so sickeningly sad that it makes me want to weep for the mothers and children who -quite literally- are victims of their society and culture.
This is close to home because my mom is Korean and my dad is American (white). She let my dad bring me to the US (she stayed behind) when I was 2, because she thought I'd have a better life in America because my dad was white (because, as we ALL know...white Americans are ALL rich and pretty much superior to the rest of the world, right? Right?) At any rate...I didn't meet her until I was 20 and when I did - she had been disowned by her entire family for having AND keeping my half-sister who was not only 'illegitimate', but black as well. TWO big 'no-no's' in S. Korea.
Add effed up as my childhood was in the US, I STILL had it better than I presume it would have been in S.Korea. And, I was in foster care at one point, so that's saying a lot.
Something else? When I met her and her friends in korea, every single one of her friends (and, I do not exaggerate when I say EVERY SINGLE ONE) had given up their children for adoption to the US, for the same reasons.
@redqueenmeg: It's LEGAL in the USA and nowhere NEAR 96 percent of "pregnancies out of wedlock" are aborted. The shame and ostracizing must be terrible in S. Korea for this to be going on. Horrible.
Ok, I am SO DONE with this "extended adolescence" crap. I went to a conference for work the other day where one of the seminars was about relating with Gen Y, and the description commented on how you have to know how to deal with their/our apparently pervasive "extended adolescence". I kind of wanted to attend but I skipped it for fear of making a scene about it in front of work colleagues. Of course, this was after being asked, "But you're so pretty, why aren't you married yet???" and "Oh, my daughter is your age! She's about to have her third child. Do you have any plans?", so I may have been a bit extra irrational about this shit.
Simply getting married and having kids does not make one an adult. Enjoying activities that you don't get (like video games or blogging) does not make one an adolescent. And most importantly, being an educated and employed person who doesn't immediately also step into married life and parenthood does NOT make one an adolescent!
10/08/09
10/08/09
That's so depressing.
I've asked a friend who identifies as libertarian before, if the (American) government should provide money to poor mothers and parents who cannot afford to support their children without food stamps, or welfare, and he says that if you can't afford kids, you shouldn't have them. Which ironically means he thinks the government should step in and take the kids away. However, he realizes that it would then take money to fund the foster system to take these kids in. He's fine with that, and would prefer that we pay money to keep kids in the foster system, than with parents who don't "deserve" the kids, because they are too poor. In other words, we shouldn't pay people to parent their own kids, we should pay other people to parent the kids, regardless of how harmful it is to the kids. I think a lot of people have these judgments against poor parents and single moms on welfare, even in America.
10/08/09
Young people often live with their parents until they're married, so they have nowhere to go get laid really -- hence the love motels and lots of cars parked on select riverside areas at night time. Birth control still isn't practiced widely enough (guys don't want to use rubber, girls don't know what their options are and where they can get'em). The social perception of "going against the norm" is of course a huge problem as well, but I think there really needs to be more awareness about sex and protection.
10/08/09
I have a weird conflict here though, because I wouldn't have my son if things were different.
10/08/09
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10/08/09
By the way, just want to say I really admire you for providing a family and home for your son. I am one of those annoying, nationalistic people that loves to discuss anything Korean... and the number of kids given up for adoption there is really sad. My mother did a couple of trips to the U.S. in the early 80s to 'deliver' adopted kids, as sort of a side job, and she says she still thinks about those kids and what would have happened to them if they hadn't been able to find a family. She was pregnant with me at the time, so it really stayed with her.
10/08/09
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10/08/09
I'd like my scarlet letter now, thank you.
10/08/09
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10/08/09
I think your friend's niece's actions can be judged on their own as being very short-sighted, and I don't know if a stigma against teen parenthood (which I think exists already anyway) really would have changed her mind. It certainly won't help her now that she has a child. Hopefully your friend is looking forward to being a great-aunt, because it sounds like that kid might need it.
10/08/09
10/08/09
10/08/09
I'm not saying adoption's the way to go for everyone. I think women should get to choose what happens when they're pregnant, whether it's abortion, adoption or keeping their child. But opting for adoption isn't throwing away children.
10/08/09
But yes I certainly agree that giving a child up for adoption is giving a child a chance to a better life.
10/08/09
either way, it's a pretty heartbreaking statement.
10/08/09
10/08/09
It's almost hard to imagine that kind of thing goes on in the 21st century.
10/08/09
"Chang Ji-young, 27, who gave birth to a boy last month, said: "My former boyfriend’s sister screamed at me over the phone demanding that I get an abortion. His mother and sister said it was up to them to decide what to do with my baby because it was their family’s seed.""
Yikes.
10/08/09
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10/08/09
Families with deadbeat dad sons sometimes move and change their numbers to avoid them. Deadbeat dads often lie about their marital status for fear they will be evicted by landlords and their children ostracized at school. Only about a quarter of South Koreans are willing to have a close relationship with a deadbeat dad as a coworker or neighbor, according to a recent survey by the government-financed Korean Women's Development Institute.
10/08/09
DID YOU HEAR THAT JON GOSSELIN???
10/08/09
What about the men who got these unwed mothers pregnant?
10/08/09
This is close to home because my mom is Korean and my dad is American (white). She let my dad bring me to the US (she stayed behind) when I was 2, because she thought I'd have a better life in America because my dad was white (because, as we ALL know...white Americans are ALL rich and pretty much superior to the rest of the world, right? Right?) At any rate...I didn't meet her until I was 20 and when I did - she had been disowned by her entire family for having AND keeping my half-sister who was not only 'illegitimate', but black as well. TWO big 'no-no's' in S. Korea.
Add effed up as my childhood was in the US, I STILL had it better than I presume it would have been in S.Korea. And, I was in foster care at one point, so that's saying a lot.
Something else? When I met her and her friends in korea, every single one of her friends (and, I do not exaggerate when I say EVERY SINGLE ONE) had given up their children for adoption to the US, for the same reasons.
Heartbreaking.
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10/08/09
WOW. This is illuminating and distressing. Thanks for sharing!
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10/06/09
Simply getting married and having kids does not make one an adult. Enjoying activities that you don't get (like video games or blogging) does not make one an adolescent. And most importantly, being an educated and employed person who doesn't immediately also step into married life and parenthood does NOT make one an adolescent!
10/06/09
To borrow a bit from SNL: "REALLY?"