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New York, 1:38 PM
Sat Nov 7
62 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/01/09
Kids don't know enough about laws for them to be a real deterrent anyway.
10/01/09
10/01/09
I didn't tell my grandparents who I lived with at the time about it, because I knew they'd just discount it, like they discounted all of the bullying at school. Even the TEACHERS got in on it, it was that bad.
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10/01/09
don't get me wrong. cyberbullying, and any type of bullying for that matter, is wrong. but i think we too often take a reactionary approach by passing a law to punish someone after the fact, instead of being more proactive and trying to change the culture that allows this to happen in the first place.
laws like this seem like an excuse for elected officials to wipe their hand of the issue and say, "there. we did something. moving on." and then the issue is forgotten.
10/01/09
I walk to the bus stop with my 4 year old sons and 6 your old daughter every morning. There's always a group of kids, I'm guessing ages 5-9, across the street, waiting with their mom. Today, she wasn't there.
From the moment we arrived, they were taunting my kids. Screaming across the street, mocking anything they overheard my children saying, etc. My daughter was clearly bothered and clinched my arm. My sons were pretty oblivious to it. I was *this* close to warning them. (Stop or I'm telling your mother, etc) Right then, she arrived and they stopped. I didn't say anything.
The situation left me really uncomfortable. What should I do if it happens again? Inform their mom? The school? One of the kids is in my daughter's class and she previously said he's mean to her.
10/01/09
My husband and I have been discussing bullying a lot lately, and how we dealt with it. My father always counseled me to punch them. Get the first hit in, do it in a public place where it is likely to be broken up quickly, and be loud about it. That approach garnered me a trip to the police station, but I was never picked on again. I don't know how I am going to counsel my child.
10/01/09
And cause this is a situation between girls, its always going to be name calling and insults and the like (for the most part). So difficult. We're practicing her 'oh go fuck yourself' death stare right now.
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10/01/09
The thing is, once it gets to the point of physicallity, it's gone too far in my opinion. Better for your daughter to control when, where and how it goes down.
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10/01/09
To my knowledge a lot of the law regarding how juvenile cases are handled in general is case law that varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and from judge to judge. Prosecutorial discretion also plays a role in how teens are tried and what options regarding rehabilitation/restitution are offered.
Adding to this is the fact that many juvenile records are eventually sealed, which is generally a good thing, but makes it harder for people outside the legal system to understand how these types of cases work.
So although the law can be applied to teens, there are a lot of questions about how it would be applied that haven't been answered.
10/01/09
@haystacks: Thanks, Captain Obvious.
10/01/09
Current life going-ons: MiniBelle and her BFF are having an issue with another girl in their grade. AnotherGirl has been insulting them, teasing, calling them names, and in the case of the BFF, sending nasty textmessages to the BFF. Last week, AnotherGirl called them 'bitches' at lunch. When the BFF went to the school guidance counseler about what's been going on, the counseler told her to call the cops.
Let me be perfectly clear: there were no threats of violence. The girls are all 12. The counseler's first reaction was 'call the cops' instead of 'address this with AnotherGirl and her parents'. This sits so badly with me. To me, this is a place where the schools and parents need to intervene and deal with the issue. Its not a legal matter, and given the zero-tolerance policies in many schools these days, it concerns me that instead of addressing the underlying issues that set off this bullying, its just straight to punishment.
As a child, I was harassed so badly I was withdrawn from elementary school and placed in another campus. I was offered no help from my school despite them knowing what was going on and numerous conferences with the principal and classroom teachers. Sometimes, I still have mild fantasies about popping this girl in her face, and I'm 34. But I still don't think it was criminal. Reprehensible? Yeah. But not criminal.
Again, I'm conflicted. I completely think that what Lori Drew did needs to be punishible by law. But the average school yard bully situation? I don't know.
10/01/09
However, this is one of the many problems with our country. A kid cannot resolve a situation in a peaceful manner, so they go to an administrator or a counselor for advice/help/resolution. Instead, they are told to call the cops? How about a little bit of responsibility on the part of the counselor/admin?
Back when I was a small kiddicus, we punched bullies in the face. Then got punched in the face, wrestled around for a bit until someone got the upper hand, it got broken up and you were (usually) left alone... for some other kid who wouldn't punch dudeman in the face.
Violence isn't the answer, but if this little brat is giving your kid a bunch of grief, nothing shuts an 8 year old up like another 8 year old's fist.
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10/01/09
Given that the counseler has been pretty level headed on any number of other matters, I can't help but assume her reaction is a product of the ridiculous zero-tolerance policies in affect at the moment in our district.
@kiddicus My advice to my daughter started out with 'please do not punch this girl in the face, no matter how much you may want to, because you will get kicked out of school'. When I was a bit younger than her, I nailed some guys in the nads on the playground after they were harassing me. They never harassed me again, which was very satisfying, but when I think about this incident as an adult, I can't imagine the kind of trouble I would get into if I did that today (er, as a child, not as an adult running around kicking small boys in the crotch).
10/01/09
And I think a large part of the problem with bullying today comes from the fact that kid's AREN'T just allowed to punch it out between each other anymore. Obviously that is not always going to work and there's a point at which intervention is necessary, but I think intervening before giving the kids a chance to have it out amongst themselves sometimes just inflates the whole problem
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10/01/09
My question about VB's post is does this mean that talking smack about someone online should be a criminal offense? That seems very extreme to me.
10/01/09
10/01/09
But yeah, it would be hard to prosecute, and I'm kind of iffy on it. But there should be laws in place to punish people who bully directly online (oxymoron??).
10/01/09
Does that make sense? I know it's crazy, but that's how I felt as a 13 year old girl. I knew if I went to the cool girls' parties I'd be snickered at and bullied, but my god if I got invited I would be there with bloody bells on. Because not going would make me an even bigger loser/
10/01/09
No. But they can make people face consequences for their actions. Laws don't 100% stop anything.
10/01/09
09/29/09
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09/29/09
I would love to believe that the prosecutors have some super secret legal trick up their sleeves to ensnare Ms. Drew with. But sadly, this is not Law and Order. If they had anything, I'm sure they would have used it already. I have to content myself that Ms. Drew will find her punishment in the court of public opinion. We are far harsher judges, and there is no appealing our verdict.
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