The dress laces up the back... couldn't it be adjusted to get a little bigger in case, I don't know, an eight-year-old GETS BIGGER???
Remember when you were little and you bought Christmas dresses with your mom in the fall? It was too big because you'd "grow into it" in three months. CHILD DEVELOPMENT FAIL.
Also for a $1200 it looks like it has white bra straps showing. Ick. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
Alyssa seems like a very intelligent little girl. Which is why I am telling myself that in another year or two, she'll have the wherewithal to tell her mother to STFU. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@Aesop's Foibles. YES.: totally. and then when she's 18 she can move to portland, come out as a lesbian, and enjoy a wildly successful career as a graphic artist. (seriously that drawing was awesome) #toddlersandtiarasrecap
I'm going to go off on another tangent of criticism here, and it refers to the utter sadness these women demonstrate as an overarching thread: They put themselves in debt to attend these dire looking pageants all over god's green acre (in this episode, it looked like it was being held in a high school "cafetorium." If it's being held at the "sleep-ee-zee" in in who-thefuck-knows, outer reaches, USA, then does it really hold cachet? These women are like compulsive gamblers. They will spend however much and do it anywhere they are allowed to because of some distant and often unachievable prize which is usually paltry and not very worth the aggro, and they will spend multiples of the winnings just to get there.
If it's sad when it's a hot mess sitting at the quarter slots at harrah's for 8 hours, this is sadder.
This is simply disgusting. A child needs to grow. They need to have fun. If a mother thinkgs Snorkel isn't age appropriate for an 8 year old, then the mother needs a serious education in child development. And if she doesn't know that it's a good idea to kid's costumes should be made with the idea in mind that children grow up and out, then she needs to get her kid out of stuff that's costumed. Or, she needs to go to into an actual extracurricular activity with costumes, like skating or dancing or theatre, where there are knowledgeable parents and teachers and coachs who will explain that children grow and costumes need some give to allow for that. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
Watch as the adult (searching for outside validation of her feelings for her child) performs supposedly acceptable actions which the child mirrors.
Ex: Alyssa's mom loses her shit on the regular, Alyssa kicks a judge in the chest.
Where this frays is at the point of behavior acceptance; Mom is sending confusing signals to her daughter: "My attention is on you, but only as long as you adhere to my rules and not my practices."
Child adheres, parents rewards with (positive and negative) attention, cycle begins again.
Ex: Mom eats doghnut in front of daughter she's forced onto an unhealthy crash diet, child eats junk food provided by overcompensating relatives, mom waits till the cameras are off and most likely gets crazy on daughter.
Daughter reaches out for help by publicly sharing details of mom's rage issues.
Cameras turn off, pack up, head for next week's family.
@FashionShowAtLunch: it's all about projected ideals!
By participating as a plus-size contestant she's telling us that her (and by proxy her family's) commitment this will not be stopped by mere reproductive inconvenience, or any other weak excuse.
Seriously, who does a girl have to kick in the chest around here to get out of this craziness? #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@Blazing_Scribbles: Despite your articulating this so chillingly well I'm suffering cognitive dissonance by proxy,I have to ask -- are you a treating psychologist? #toddlersandtiarasrecap
There is only one way to describe forcing a child to eat only fruit for a week. Abuse. Plain and simple. Starving a child like that when you could be feeding her a reasonable, healthy diet is just wrong.
It may not sound so bad to us, but a week of one kind of food could wreak havoc on a young digestive system, causing cramps, bloating and diarrhea and the lack of nutrients and vitamins would likely leave the girl without energy. It's a bad idea for an adult to do it to her/himself but it's just crazy to force that on a child. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@geekgirlliz: I had the same interpretation that her behavior toward her child is abusive. Children require lots of calories to grow, they are like little furnaces!
Then again, I'm biased against the whole child pageant thing. It cuts way too close to child porn for me to be comfortable with: little girls done up as women, striking suggestive poses, in skimpy outfits. I don't get what values this teaches young girls to strive for? Poise? Confidence? I've heard these reasons come out of pageant parents' mouths, but can't athletics and academics instill those same values at a better level for children to understand?
I also lived in Colorado when the Benet case broke, and one doesn't forget something like that. Ever. Exposing your child to a wide audience, filled with people who you don't know, some of whom are bound to be mentally ill? Bad decision. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
I always wonder if the pagent moms (and occasionally dads) see this show when it airs and gain perspective on how they are parenting their girls. Do they see it as a glimpse inside the glamor of the pagent world or are they shocked by their own behavior on film? #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@thebestofjillhives: last week a mom said she got interested in putting her daughter in them after seeing "living dolls," the documentary that sparked this show.
@AvgElitist: Ahhh...my fear. I mean the show certainly doesn't paint the characters with a gentle brush. Makes me wonder what the kids think. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
There are so many reasons to be appalled by these clips, but I appear to be stuck on the fact that a freaking swimsuit-and-heels competition exists within a pageant for children. Really...I'm speechless. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
While I don't agree with anything any parent/child does (for the most part) on this show I don't really see what's wrong with her acknowledging that she lost. It's way better than this crap that society gives kids, you know, the "we're all winners" attitude where everyone gets a trophy so they won't feel bad. You lose and you move on. Hopefully, this girl will do that. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@Evie Havok: I agree with that sentiment except in situations like this it bothers me. A kid playing a sport can think 'if I practice more' but in a pageant - what else is the kid to think but 'I'm not pretty enough.' #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@Evie Havok: If it was some other kind of thing, like a spelling bee, or a mathlete thing, then yes, I'd think this was a useful lesson to learn. But all this kind of thing is about, is superficial, subjective, judgment. So the kid doesn't learn that she lost the way you might at soccer...but that there's something wrong with her, how she looks, etc. That's really, really, really different. It's not like getting a quiz wrong or just not being as good as another player. It's entirely subjective and about the worst kind of sexist ideas about women and girls and what their value is. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
Holy crap! I think I saw part of this last night when I was high on my Valium and Vicodin (legal and safe, I promise - the doob, not so much).
Is this the girl that drew the really funny and yet really sad picture of her Mom? (I can't watch the videos, I'm sorry. I never would have seen the bit I did without the aforementioned meds. I watched a documentary on HBO and haven't been able to stomach the subject much since.)
These women make me seethe in rage. They are terrible fucking mothers. Just because they're not as "bad" as they could be (horrible psychical abuse, neglect) doesn't mean that they shouldn't have their kids removed for just a bit to teach them a lesson on what's really important when you're a Mom.
Every single one of these women should be slapped. YOU DO NOT GET TO FORCE YOUR KIDS TO GIVE UP BEING KIDS TO LIVE YOUR DREAM. ASSHOLE. Rage inducing. These poor girls who are taught not just by society, but their own MOTHERS that all that's valued is their looks. They have nothing else to offer for pay. Girls have enough trouble with that later on. Let them be little kids.
They need to get dirty, spill play-doh crumbles on the floor, cut their bangs off (instead of drowning in hairspray), skip a bath, wear 2 different socks, and lick cake mix from a bowl.
@AvgElitist: Charlie's mom! "I should have just told her to shake her butt, then she would have won" She had a lousy attitude that wore off on her kid. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
The way this girl talked about her mother made me tear up (although, it's been that kind of week). I know she comes across as smart and well-spoken and aware on some level that her mom is putting more emphasis on these pageants than is healthy -- but her very maturity made me uncomfortable.
It's like she's already more grown-up than her mom -- she's doing the care-taking because her mom is the frantic, out-of-control one. So she's staying calm and trying to do what her mom needs. Really, she's not being allowed to be a little girl times two: first, because she's being trained by these fucked-up pageants to not have fun or be spontaneous or act her age, and to judge herself on whether she can fit into a freakin' bespangled dress. And second, because she has to take care of her mother's feelings and that chaos instead of just focusing on herself and what she feels like doing. The "loser" breakdown at the end made it seem to me that she's not as "mature" about these pageants as the previous clips show her to be -- she's still a little girl who feels like a loser.
I really want to adopt her. And I wish I believed in hell, because her mother deserves a reserved space. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@greeneyedfem: As someone who grew up having to take care of her chaotic, emotionally immature mother, your comment struck me as so right on the money, and so sad. This poor little girl ~ I feel even worse for her than I already did, knowing how messed up in the head this is all going to make her, and how terribly conflicted her feelings for her mother will be. *sigh* Now I have to go call my mom, who left me a less than smile-inducing message while I was putting my (happy, well adjusted ~ yay!) kids to bed. *sigh* #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@LucyPevensie: knowing how messed up in the head this is all going to make her, and how terribly conflicted her feelings for her mother will be.
Yes. I have a lovely and wonderful mother and family, but certain dynamics growing up gave me a deep need to keep things happy and smooth and take care of everyone else in the house. I felt terribly responsible for being a "good" kid so everything would stay happy. That's what I saw in this girl. Some folks here earlier were saying, well, at least she seems to have her head on straight, but to me, she just seemed way too responsible for her mother's feelings. That's not the job of an 8-year-old. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
I'm willing to bet that if this was a show about pet pageants and owners were doing the exact same thing to their pets, this show would have lasted about three episodes. There would be massive outrage and protests in front of the network's headquarters daily. Why is this tolerated? #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@queen_caribbean: Because as a society we routinely treat our dogs better than we do women and children. It's sad but pretty true. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@Wishnick: And on the pet show (I was an enormous fan of this one) one couple decided to pull their dog out of the show because they realized showing wasn't for them. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@5ft of fury: No, not really true. I don't think people have been abandoning their children in record numbers because they're "too expensive" to take care of during this recession. At least, I haven't found any toddlers in my yard, but I have found plenty of starving, abandoned cats, and the local shelters are in complete crisis mode.
That said, there isn't any reason to compare the two. Obviously dog shows exist already and people watch them on TV, and even if there weren't such shows, it's not as though treating animals well means we aren't treating children well, or vice versa. I can be outraged by animal abuse and still be outraged by child abuse; there isn't a limited amount of kindness that might run out if we spend it on the wrong species.
@slowpoke.r: THANK YOU! Why is there always some comparison between children and pets.
For the record: I can't stand that shows like Survivor have contests where people eat live bugs to win a prize. But I must be the only one that has a problem with that...otherwise these shows would be off the air, right? #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@slowpoke.r: Thank you! Being compassionate is kind of an all-around thing; it's not something that you can pick and chose.
A man who breaks a child's legs goes to jail; a man who breaks a dog's legs gets a fine. There's really NO comparison between animal abuse and child abuse-- except this, someone who is abusive to animals will probably be abusive to humans in their life.
And, erm, can't the whole dog show industry be seen as a ""pet pageant'"? Last time I checked, people weren't exactly boycotting Westminster.
@WashingMyHair: I don't know why these comparisons always pop up. It doesn't make any sense to me.
And no, you're not the only one, I hate those shows too. I remember seeing Fear Factor years ago; they were constantly putting people in tanks with reptiles and such and all I could think about was how some of the animals were inevitably going to be injured and were probably terrified out of their minds. Fear Factor, indeed. That show was on the air forever.
@Melpomene: I was thinking of Westminster when I was writing. All the clipping of ears and tails to give the breed the right "shape" and surely many of the dogs are on very limited diets...doesn't some cable channel make a huge deal out of Westminster every year? I don't remember hearing about any protests. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@slowpoke.r: Considering how people reacted to the Michael Vick case (rightly so, animal abuse is terrible) compared to how people react to when other football players are arrested for assault, I'd say that women are seen as less than human by a lot of people. There isn't a need to determine which is "worse" but I think that you're being a little optimistic to assume that just because people aren't killing/abandoning their kids, they are loving them. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@5ft of fury: I wasn't assuming that at all; not sure how you would get that from my post.
You said "we as a society routinely treat our dogs better than our children" and I disagree. It's simple: abandoning a being to starve to death, die violently, or be put to death is a terrible thing to do; this is not being done to children in record numbers in our country right now, but is being done in record numbers to dogs, and many people see it as a reasonable thing to do; ergo, as a society, we treat dogs worse than children. Yes, there are children (and dogs) who are unloved, abused, beaten, neglected, and starved physically and emotionally, but only one group is routinely being taken to shelters and put to "sleep" because the owner can't afford to feed them, or left to fend for themselves when they have no skills or ability to do so.
But again, this isn't a contest. I don't want any of them to be abused or abandoned, and my main point- that caring about animals does not in any way supersede caring about humans- still stands. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@slowpoke.r: Right, but you CAN'T "return" your child when it turns out that you actually aren't fit to be a parent. Termination of parental rights is very difficult. Obviously in a perfect world people wouldn't adopt pets unless they knew that they were ready to take care of them, just like in an ideal world only people fit to parent would become parents. The comparision between animal and child abuse is not a good analogy, and I think we both agree that any attempt to compare the two is just a bad idea. However, I do think that it is interesting how as a society we tend to humanize our pets -dressing them up, feeding them "human" food (terrible idea, btw), talking to them. Caring about animals should never supersede caring about people, but unfortunately batshit crazy groups like PETA seem to disagree. Personally I find PETA to be anti-animal because they do so much more harm for animal rights rather than good. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
@5ft of fury: I agree that it's interesting how we tend to humanize our pets, which I think is one of the things that can lead to bad pet ownership. For example, I've taken care of several cats that were not properly socialized; if I "humanized" them (as many people do with animals) I would think they were "mean" and out to get me when actually they just don't know how to interact and therefore tend to swat at me when I overstimulate or frighten them. Animals (like kids) just don't react the way adult humans do or have the same motivations and for people to expect them to can really be problematic.
IMO the issue with PETA is that they are an abolitionist organization, which is a viewpoint that 1) many people find offensive or incomprehensible and 2) brooks no compromise. Of course, they also have a horrid PR department that really needs to get a grip on reality because at this point they are indeed causing more harm than good with their public campaigns. That said, even abolitionists do not think that animals are more important than humans, just that they are equally important.
Anyway, this has kind of become a big ole threadjack and I think we understand each other and agree more than disagree at this point. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
Maaaaan ths is fucked up. What a nasty, projecting woman. The second that girl hits puberty that woman is going to break her down. Hopefully her grandmother and any other female role models she has can counteract it a little. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
Remember when you were little and you bought Christmas dresses with your mom in the fall? It was too big because you'd "grow into it" in three months. CHILD DEVELOPMENT FAIL.
Also for a $1200 it looks like it has white bra straps showing. Ick. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
10/23/09
10/23/09
If it's sad when it's a hot mess sitting at the quarter slots at harrah's for 8 hours, this is sadder.
(the sermon is over. sorry so long)
10/23/09
10/23/09
Ex: Alyssa's mom loses her shit on the regular, Alyssa kicks a judge in the chest.
Where this frays is at the point of behavior acceptance; Mom is sending confusing signals to her daughter: "My attention is on you, but only as long as you adhere to my rules and not my practices."
Child adheres, parents rewards with (positive and negative) attention, cycle begins again.
Ex: Mom eats doghnut in front of daughter she's forced onto an unhealthy crash diet, child eats junk food provided by overcompensating relatives, mom waits till the cameras are off and most likely gets crazy on daughter.
Daughter reaches out for help by publicly sharing details of mom's rage issues.
Cameras turn off, pack up, head for next week's family.
Why can't I stop watching? #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
Also! The mom is a plus-size pageant contestant...
So, it's okay for her to be "plus-sized", but her growing daughter must starve herself to fit into a dress?
Talk about mixed messages... #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
By participating as a plus-size contestant she's telling us that her (and by proxy her family's) commitment this will not be stopped by mere reproductive inconvenience, or any other weak excuse.
Seriously, who does a girl have to kick in the chest around here to get out of this craziness? #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
10/23/09
It may not sound so bad to us, but a week of one kind of food could wreak havoc on a young digestive system, causing cramps, bloating and diarrhea and the lack of nutrients and vitamins would likely leave the girl without energy. It's a bad idea for an adult to do it to her/himself but it's just crazy to force that on a child. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
Then again, I'm biased against the whole child pageant thing. It cuts way too close to child porn for me to be comfortable with: little girls done up as women, striking suggestive poses, in skimpy outfits. I don't get what values this teaches young girls to strive for? Poise? Confidence? I've heard these reasons come out of pageant parents' mouths, but can't athletics and academics instill those same values at a better level for children to understand?
I also lived in Colorado when the Benet case broke, and one doesn't forget something like that. Ever. Exposing your child to a wide audience, filled with people who you don't know, some of whom are bound to be mentally ill? Bad decision. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/22/09
10/23/09
That's what we are dealing with here. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
10/27/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/23/09
It doesn't help that she likely equates losing a competition with losing her mom's love. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/22/09
Is this the girl that drew the really funny and yet really sad picture of her Mom? (I can't watch the videos, I'm sorry. I never would have seen the bit I did without the aforementioned meds. I watched a documentary on HBO and haven't been able to stomach the subject much since.)
These women make me seethe in rage. They are terrible fucking mothers. Just because they're not as "bad" as they could be (horrible psychical abuse, neglect) doesn't mean that they shouldn't have their kids removed for just a bit to teach them a lesson on what's really important when you're a Mom.
Every single one of these women should be slapped. YOU DO NOT GET TO FORCE YOUR KIDS TO GIVE UP BEING KIDS TO LIVE YOUR DREAM. ASSHOLE. Rage inducing. These poor girls who are taught not just by society, but their own MOTHERS that all that's valued is their looks. They have nothing else to offer for pay. Girls have enough trouble with that later on. Let them be little kids.
They need to get dirty, spill play-doh crumbles on the floor, cut their bangs off (instead of drowning in hairspray), skip a bath, wear 2 different socks, and lick cake mix from a bowl.
10/22/09
10/23/09
10/23/09
10/23/09
10/22/09
It's like she's already more grown-up than her mom -- she's doing the care-taking because her mom is the frantic, out-of-control one. So she's staying calm and trying to do what her mom needs. Really, she's not being allowed to be a little girl times two: first, because she's being trained by these fucked-up pageants to not have fun or be spontaneous or act her age, and to judge herself on whether she can fit into a freakin' bespangled dress. And second, because she has to take care of her mother's feelings and that chaos instead of just focusing on herself and what she feels like doing. The "loser" breakdown at the end made it seem to me that she's not as "mature" about these pageants as the previous clips show her to be -- she's still a little girl who feels like a loser.
I really want to adopt her. And I wish I believed in hell, because her mother deserves a reserved space. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
10/23/09
Yes. I have a lovely and wonderful mother and family, but certain dynamics growing up gave me a deep need to keep things happy and smooth and take care of everyone else in the house. I felt terribly responsible for being a "good" kid so everything would stay happy. That's what I saw in this girl. Some folks here earlier were saying, well, at least she seems to have her head on straight, but to me, she just seemed way too responsible for her mother's feelings. That's not the job of an 8-year-old. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
That said, there isn't any reason to compare the two. Obviously dog shows exist already and people watch them on TV, and even if there weren't such shows, it's not as though treating animals well means we aren't treating children well, or vice versa. I can be outraged by animal abuse and still be outraged by child abuse; there isn't a limited amount of kindness that might run out if we spend it on the wrong species.
Sadly, there isn't a limited amount of abuse, either... #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
For the record: I can't stand that shows like Survivor have contests where people eat live bugs to win a prize. But I must be the only one that has a problem with that...otherwise these shows would be off the air, right? #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
A man who breaks a child's legs goes to jail; a man who breaks a dog's legs gets a fine. There's really NO comparison between animal abuse and child abuse-- except this, someone who is abusive to animals will probably be abusive to humans in their life.
And, erm, can't the whole dog show industry be seen as a ""pet pageant'"? Last time I checked, people weren't exactly boycotting Westminster.
10/23/09
And no, you're not the only one, I hate those shows too. I remember seeing Fear Factor years ago; they were constantly putting people in tanks with reptiles and such and all I could think about was how some of the animals were inevitably going to be injured and were probably terrified out of their minds. Fear Factor, indeed. That show was on the air forever.
@Melpomene: I was thinking of Westminster when I was writing. All the clipping of ears and tails to give the breed the right "shape" and surely many of the dogs are on very limited diets...doesn't some cable channel make a huge deal out of Westminster every year? I don't remember hearing about any protests. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
10/23/09
You said "we as a society routinely treat our dogs better than our children" and I disagree. It's simple: abandoning a being to starve to death, die violently, or be put to death is a terrible thing to do; this is not being done to children in record numbers in our country right now, but is being done in record numbers to dogs, and many people see it as a reasonable thing to do; ergo, as a society, we treat dogs worse than children. Yes, there are children (and dogs) who are unloved, abused, beaten, neglected, and starved physically and emotionally, but only one group is routinely being taken to shelters and put to "sleep" because the owner can't afford to feed them, or left to fend for themselves when they have no skills or ability to do so.
But again, this isn't a contest. I don't want any of them to be abused or abandoned, and my main point- that caring about animals does not in any way supersede caring about humans- still stands. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/23/09
10/23/09
IMO the issue with PETA is that they are an abolitionist organization, which is a viewpoint that 1) many people find offensive or incomprehensible and 2) brooks no compromise. Of course, they also have a horrid PR department that really needs to get a grip on reality because at this point they are indeed causing more harm than good with their public campaigns. That said, even abolitionists do not think that animals are more important than humans, just that they are equally important.
Anyway, this has kind of become a big ole threadjack and I think we understand each other and agree more than disagree at this point. #toddlersandtiarasrecap
10/22/09