While I adore fabulous femmey gay boys as much as the next gal, I also really, really loved the gay couple on Sarah Silverman's show. Those guys were awesome for defying the stereotype. #gays
I question the word "celebrated." Saying something deserves acknowledgment and representation is different from saying it should be celebrated. That seems like sloppy writing. Thoughts?
I think the second point is a really good one, but "post-gay"? WE'RE NOT POST-ANYTHING PEOPLE. #gays
@JerseyGrrrl: There needs to be a better term for post-gay. Because, to an extent, I understand it. I know girls who are gay in their early 20s that are so nonchalant about it. It seems very much a non issue within their own personal coming out because of slightly more accepting views of homosexuality in their generation compared to older generations. But, "post-gay" lends itself to the idea that we are beyond any roadblocks to full acceptance which just isn't the case. #gays
Bizarrely, Supernatural actually had two gay male characters that defy common stereotypes last night: they were nerds. One of them was overweight, neither of them were "fey", and they both enjoyed LARPing. It was actually really refreshing, since there's a lot of underlying homophobia in some aspects of nerd culture.
The above is one of the reasons that the L Word bothered me in terms of being representative of the diversity of lesbians. It wasn't until later seasons that any character besides the non-threateningly androgynous Shane show up. I know that it was partly to avoid the "butch dyke" stereotype...but the result was having lesbians that were all conventionally attractive, slim, and feminine. You might see a "butch" type in the background somewhere, but that's it. It felt like a glaring omission to me, since my lesbian friends run the gamut.
And I'd say True Blood is actually getting a lot right. Lafayette, while he has elements of the "fey", is also very hip hop. He walks a line between the two. And there was the accountant vamp he was getting vampire from, which was another a-typical homosexual character played by Stephen Root.
@tiredfairy: ADORE supernatural. In my opinion that show does not get nearly enough credit. so funny, so well-written, so fills the void in me left by buffy/angel. #gays
The character of Calvin on Greek on ABC is definitely not a fey. There have been a few times on the show that he's gotten annoyed with other characters for assuming he would be. #gays
@charliekohler: I love Calvin! He really defies any kind of pigeonholing and he's brilliant at calling out his friends when they expect him to act in a particular way. He has a really well-rounded, believable personality.
I actually think Greek is one of the best shows for character development currently on TV. There's no one in it who plays a straightforward good guy or villian, every character is realised as a whole person. #gays
Their argument is weird. Fey gays should be as fey as they want. The problem is that there isn't a representation of non-feys on television, really anymore. If the media included gays of all different personalities, then intolerant america wouldn't stereotype all gay men as fey, and would see that like every group, the gay community is made up of individuals. Instead of asking feys to "balance" why don't we just have more balance in popular culture? #gays
@Jack_Burton: I love how the majority of the jokes surrounding his sexuality are the fact that he's NOT flamboyant and people (usually Michael) expect him to be #gays
am i the only person here who's known some gay people and not realized they were gay until i became more friendly with them and found out they had same-sex partners?
i know some people talk about gaydar and all that, but honestly there's been more than a few cases where i had no idea, there was no blatant behavior that screamed "i'm gay!"
conversely, there have been a couple of men i've known in the past that i thought for sure were gay, and in fact they were straight. so you see i'm clueless.
@msAnthrope: I used to have the worst gaydar in the world. Like, if you wanted to know who the gay guys were, you just needed to ask me who I currently had a crush on. Totally oblivious. #gays
@msAnthrope: I have no sense of "gaydar" whatsoever. But I have this argument with one of my close (guy) friends all the time.** How is "gaydar" (with its cutesy name) any different from trafficking in stereotypes? Oh! You flip your hands and wear pink! You MUST be gay! I mean, come on. I refuse to make assumptions about people based on things like that and I don't care if that makes me the last to realize that Gail in accounting likes ladies.
**My friend says he sees his gaydar (ugh) as a way of determining based on mannerisms what someone's sexuality is and how they might respond to his. I imagine being gay yourself makes this more necessary more regularly. I have the luxury/privilege (being boring, bi- but married) of not needing to determine anyone's sexuality. #gays
@JerseyGrrrl: It's true that the term "gaydar" (especially when straight people use it) often just means stereotyping people these days, but it's really supposed to be about being sensitive to the nuances of attraction and the subtle ways people have of checking each other out. And of course it dates from a time when gay people necessarily were very subtle in conveying sexual interest in mainstream social situations, because expressing it openly was dangerous. #gays
@msAnthrope: As someone who has been on the receiving end of a "you're really not gay" moment once or twice, I think that most people have poorly functioning "gaydar."
It's the toupee fallacy, you can say that you can spot everyone wearing one but you simply don't know about all the good rugs you've failed to spot. #gays
@randomnessish: not only is he a great non-stereotypical representation of male homosexuality, there have been multiple times in which he has called out coworkers for their preconceived notions of him as a gay man. i love oscar. #gays
My girlfriend and I were talking about this the other day. While gays are surfacing more and more in pop culture and that's admirable, all of them are alike in some way or act incredibly straight. My girlfriend and I adore Portia and Ellen, but we agree that they're the straightest lesbian couple ever and that's part of their mainstream appeal. In my experience, most of the lesbians I know in real life look more like this than most lesbians I've seen on TV: #gays
None of the gay men I know or am friends with are into fashion. Generally they are less slobby than the average straight guy, but they aren't wearing designer labels either. #gays
Y'know, I went through a "sensitivty training" of sorts in preparation to be a camp counselor a few years ago. When all of us as a group were presented with the word "homosexual," one girl said something to the effect of "They're really happy, and everybody wants to be their friend. I just think gay people are really nice."
When I interrupted to say that sexual orientation had nothing to do with temperament or personality, and that while there are surely very many nice, happy gay people out there, there are also mean, unfriendly ones as well, to be sure. I mean, they're people after all, with individual personalities. The room got all quiet, like "She doesn't like gay people."
I'm pretty sure that Olivia Wilde's character on House has always been billed as bisexual, not a lesbian. I imagine the failure of the Newsweek article to make that distinction might be upsetting to some actual lesbians. Hate to break it to you, men, but some women in this world actually do not want to have sex with men, ever. #gays
@Kivrin: They did make the distinction: "and they're usually bisexual. How convenient."- the fact that the media rarely makes characters full-on lesbians because they assume men will not take kindly to women they don't have a chance with is the point they were making #gays
@colormeroutine: Yes, but I thought it was clumsy/borderline offensive to start that paragraph by saying "Lesbians face a different problem…" At least one of the characters mentioned as an example of a lesbian is not even a lesbian! So I just thought it was poorly worded (and sad that apparently the author couldn't think of more true lesbian characters).
@colormeroutine: Women don't like lesbians, either, at least the women who have problems with gay people. It's not like gay men have it worse but lesbians get a pass. For the most part, close minded straight women just assume lesbians are lying and will eventually end up with a man. All the "bisexual" women on tv back them up.
@Kivrin: I don't think Setoodeh disagrees with you -- he's saying that, problematically, the only women who have sex with women who get represented on television are bisexuals.
Which, whatever, I have a hard time getting offended on behalf of lesbians about that, when bisexuals are still struggling to be accepted as people who, you know, exist. #gays
I don't wear make-up most of the time, if I do it's because I want to, not because anyone expects it. I do it for me and why do lesbians have to do it for everyone else? #gays
11/13/09
While I adore fabulous femmey gay boys as much as the next gal, I also really, really loved the gay couple on Sarah Silverman's show. Those guys were awesome for defying the stereotype. #gays
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Some African-Americans are complaining that the poor, uneducated girl in Precious perpetuates stereotypes; others say she represents a part of the community and deserves to be celebrated. For gays, that schism falls along generational lines. Older gays who spent their lives fighting for civil rights continue to want to stand out, to argue that acceptance means nothing if it doesn't apply to the most outré members. Younger men and women, for whom society has been more tolerant, think of themselves as "post-gay," meaning their sexual orientation is only a part of who they are.
I question the word "celebrated." Saying something deserves acknowledgment and representation is different from saying it should be celebrated. That seems like sloppy writing. Thoughts?
I think the second point is a really good one, but "post-gay"? WE'RE NOT POST-ANYTHING PEOPLE. #gays
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The above is one of the reasons that the L Word bothered me in terms of being representative of the diversity of lesbians. It wasn't until later seasons that any character besides the non-threateningly androgynous Shane show up. I know that it was partly to avoid the "butch dyke" stereotype...but the result was having lesbians that were all conventionally attractive, slim, and feminine. You might see a "butch" type in the background somewhere, but that's it. It felt like a glaring omission to me, since my lesbian friends run the gamut.
And I'd say True Blood is actually getting a lot right. Lafayette, while he has elements of the "fey", is also very hip hop. He walks a line between the two. And there was the accountant vamp he was getting vampire from, which was another a-typical homosexual character played by Stephen Root.
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I actually think Greek is one of the best shows for character development currently on TV. There's no one in it who plays a straightforward good guy or villian, every character is realised as a whole person. #gays
11/13/09
I also have a cat asleep on my lap.
Am I an unstylish gay cat lady? I'm so of-the-moment! #gays
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i know some people talk about gaydar and all that, but honestly there's been more than a few cases where i had no idea, there was no blatant behavior that screamed "i'm gay!"
conversely, there have been a couple of men i've known in the past that i thought for sure were gay, and in fact they were straight. so you see i'm clueless.
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heh that happened to me too! #gays
11/13/09
**My friend says he sees his gaydar (ugh) as a way of determining based on mannerisms what someone's sexuality is and how they might respond to his. I imagine being gay yourself makes this more necessary more regularly. I have the luxury/privilege (being boring, bi- but married) of not needing to determine anyone's sexuality. #gays
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11/13/09
It's the toupee fallacy, you can say that you can spot everyone wearing one but you simply don't know about all the good rugs you've failed to spot. #gays
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My girlfriend and I were talking about this the other day. While gays are surfacing more and more in pop culture and that's admirable, all of them are alike in some way or act incredibly straight. My girlfriend and I adore Portia and Ellen, but we agree that they're the straightest lesbian couple ever and that's part of their mainstream appeal. In my experience, most of the lesbians I know in real life look more like this than most lesbians I've seen on TV: #gays
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When I interrupted to say that sexual orientation had nothing to do with temperament or personality, and that while there are surely very many nice, happy gay people out there, there are also mean, unfriendly ones as well, to be sure. I mean, they're people after all, with individual personalities. The room got all quiet, like "She doesn't like gay people."
It was bizarre and disheartening. #gays
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Which, whatever, I have a hard time getting offended on behalf of lesbians about that, when bisexuals are still struggling to be accepted as people who, you know, exist. #gays
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