I can't wait (WAIT) to shove this in every Republican's face. Fuck you, fuck your party (with which I would agree on many policies if you dipshits didn't constantly pander to the Religious Right), and most importantly: GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY FACE.
I know the Stupak amendment is depressing, but I'm loathe to let Great be the enemy of Good when it comes to getting Americans universal health care. That amendment is not impregnable and Democrats (REAL democrats, not the 39 asswads who voted for Stupak) aren't going to forget it's there. IF, and IF this gets passed in the Senate, I think Obama's team will be happy to harness the national goodwill that will follow to ramrod shit through to fix this.
It will be SO much easier to deal with the whole issue once Obama has an undeniable & substantial victory in his pocket. And when the opposition isn't using it as a way to stop that victory from happening. They know that if there is no health care reform, Obama won't have the leverage to do much of anything... but they also know that if he DOES get this to happen, they're screwed. This was their last chance to throw everything they had at him. I don't think that they were holding back. Which is part of why it got so ugly, why it's SUCH a big deal that this happened, and why it's alright that it isn't perfect yet.
Now they've used up everything they have against him, and it looks like it's not going to be enough. Now I understand why it was allowed to become as absurd as it did, and why Obama never stepped in and enforced order - it's all out there now. All the garbage is out in the open. What else can they say? This was the Republicans best chance at bringing Obama down. It will never be as easy for them again. #healthcarereform
@SparklyTempest: There's a copy of it at my community's library. Of course, I'll have to find five or six hours to kill to read the bill. My dad said that it's a mess of red tape and legalese. #healthcarereform
@Cam/ron: From what I have fought through, the WSJ's summary/key points list is actually pretty good. While I think it is important to at least try to read through it, if you can't make the time, it is a good place to start: [online.wsj.com]#healthcarereform
I don't know how to feel about this. I supported this Act and wrote my Rep. asking him to support it (even though he's a Republican) because I thought it was the most comprehensive and the one most likely to be passed, but I'm just so....sad about the Stupak amendment. I know this is probably the best reform package we could get under the circumstances and I know NOW supported the act as well (they asked members to support it), but restricting women's access to safe reproductive healthcare isn't exactly a break with tradition.
You should see some of the comments on Obama's facebook. His status is "this is history." Everyone seems to thinks this reform will dramatically change the course of history and our lives. I think it's a big step towards change, but I also feel like it's almost a slap in the face to women who are getting royally fucked by this reform act to call it "historic" or "world-changing." #healthcarereform
Aside from cases of unwanted pregnancy, abortion* is commonly used to remove dead tissue after missed miscarriages (miscarriages that do not leave the woman's body of their own accord). Do these people not realize that there's more than one use for abortion? That they're limiting access to a procedure used not just by women who have unwanted pregnancies, but by women who very much want a pregnancy but have not succeeded?
I'm not saying that the latter cases have more weight- I think the procedure should be covered no matter what- but simply that the myopia on this issue is absolutely astounding.
*I know it's called a D&C, but isn't it called that in every case, or are they playing semantic games here and calling the same procedure by two different names in order to push a moral agenda?
@slowpoke.r: Hmmm, you raise an interesting question. Having had both "kinds" of abortion. Though when I had the D&C, the doctor called it an abortion also. Not in a creepy way, in a medical way; "SomeAuthorGirl, you need to have an abortion because of xyz." I never thought anything of it.
Could these people be trying to make it more difficult to save the lives of women in a failing pregnancy? You just scared the shit out of me. I need to go do some googling, stat....
ETA: Just reread, but I still wonder could this be used to split hairs in both directions?
I just don't see how they think they can limit access to one use of the procedure and not affect the other use, which they can't morally oppose. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
@slowpoke.r: Let's be honest -- they don't care. They. Just. Don't. Care. They don't care that a D&C has other uses. They don't care that aborting a fetus with severe genetic abnormalities is sometimes kinder than carrying it to term. They don't care about women who get raped or little girls who get impregnanted by a family member.
Not only do they not care, I am fairly certain that a large number of abortion opponents don't know that these services have other uses other than terminating a viable fetus. I think all we need to do is look at the falicious partial-birth abortion crap to understand that. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
@slowpoke.r: That is a good point. My good friend's sister is in the process of having to have that done after miscarrying at 3 months. Everyone involved in the situation is calling it an abortion seeing as it is the same procedure. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
@SlayBelle: Not only do they not care, I am fairly certain that a large number of abortion opponents don't know that these services have other uses other than terminating a viable fetus.
That's my point: if they don't know, why aren't they being told? Why isn't someone on committee standing up and saying, look, you nutbags, this is a medical procedure and it has more than one use, so get off your moral high horse, stop trying to kill women through neglect, and pass the damn bill without limitations on a procedure that you obviously know nothing about?
In short, I'm thinking that the other uses for a D&C could be used to leverage continued coverage for the procedure in general. Naive, I know, I know... #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
@slowpoke.r: I don't think that's naive. That's the way this SHOULD be. The truth is that the abortion funding issue has no place in the health coverage debate. I also want a committee member to stand up and say, "Abortion is legal. Come back when you're ready to accept that, and participate in a professional setting like the adults you are." #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
Okay, dumb this down for me: Are there instances in which private insurance currently pays for abortion? The only one I can think of is if the mother's life is in danger; but I'm not even sure if it'll pay for it in these cases. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
@Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: Yes. I don't know the specifics, but I have had two abortions. One I had to pay for out of pocket because I was 19, uninsured, and it was elective. The second one was due to medical reasons after getting pregnant by accident; it was after I had insurance, was married, older, etc. It was paid for 80%.
So the answer is yes. Though I don't know the particulars. I seem to remember MoGlo talking about this a little bit in yesterdays thread... #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
@Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: See my post above. As far as I know, most insurance companies will cover D&C in a case of miscarriage. So I'd assume that they do cover it in general because it would be a strange hair to split to determine which to pay for and which to not pay for. Not that insurance companies aren't experts at splitting hairs... #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
"The actual answer is probably somewhere in between, meaning that most Americans with employer-based insurance currently have coverage for abortion." #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
@slowpoke.r: It wouldn't be that difficult for insurance companies to differ. They likely have different procedural codes just for that reason. If not different procedural codes, there would be different diagnostic codes.
@Lymed: Ah. I know next to nothing about how insurance works, sadly. The fact that they keep saying "abortion" instead of "elective abortion" (which is not a very accurate term, IMO, but I guess it's the best we have) is misleading. Probably on purpose. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
@slowpoke.r: Most claims are processed by a computer based on coding given by the doctor. A person rarely actually looks at it, unless you appeal. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
@Lymed: I'm curious about how many different codes there are for the same procedure. Do they follow motivations? I mean, an elective abortion can be had for emotional reasons, such as rape, which would be an exception, but how do you code for that? Do they code for that, or are all elective abortions just given the same code?
Sorry to grill you, but I'd love to know how this works. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
@slowpoke.r: That question is beyond my knowledge. It may be that plans that only cover voluntary abortions require the participant to appeal the claim once it is denied. But I would guess there are different codes for voluntary termination and D&C in case of miscarriage. It may just be the difference between a diagnostic code for pregnant and a diagnostic code for miscarriage. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
@Lymed: Time for googling, I suppose. I think you must be right about the pregnant/ miscarriage diagnostic codes, which would mean that the rape/ abuse/ life of the mother exceptions are just so much lip service, especially when it comes to insurance coverage. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
Word. I can't believe we're getting kneecapped by members of our own party. I get that we're a big tent and don't go much for purity tests, but if you are anti-choice enough to deny other women the right to abortion, just come out as a Republican already. You're sure as hell not doing the Dems any good.
Sensible healthcare reform is never going to happen. It just isn't. The best we can hope for is a law, backed by the insurance companies, that "solves" the uninsured's problems by insisting they buy health insurance. Much the way cities "solve" the homeless problem by kicking the homeless out. God bless America. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
Question: Does private health insurance cover abortions?
Because if not, why the hell do these people think a public option would? Wouldn't it just get filed under "elective procedure" and you'd have to pay for it yourself? #healthcare
01:28 AM
That said, the abortion concession is upsetting. Same old song and dance, my friends. #healthcarereform
01:10 AM
That is all. #healthcarereform
02:20 AM
12:09 AM
Of course, I'm only a mindless Obamabot. #healthcarereform
12:25 AM
It will be SO much easier to deal with the whole issue once Obama has an undeniable & substantial victory in his pocket. And when the opposition isn't using it as a way to stop that victory from happening. They know that if there is no health care reform, Obama won't have the leverage to do much of anything... but they also know that if he DOES get this to happen, they're screwed. This was their last chance to throw everything they had at him. I don't think that they were holding back. Which is part of why it got so ugly, why it's SUCH a big deal that this happened, and why it's alright that it isn't perfect yet.
Now they've used up everything they have against him, and it looks like it's not going to be enough. Now I understand why it was allowed to become as absurd as it did, and why Obama never stepped in and enforced order - it's all out there now. All the garbage is out in the open. What else can they say? This was the Republicans best chance at bringing Obama down. It will never be as easy for them again. #healthcarereform
12:09 AM
12:27 AM
12:31 AM
01:19 AM
You're the one who is 100% for passing any bill, posting any comments that haven't been read. #healthcarereform
01:19 AM
01:54 AM
02:39 AM
04:29 AM
11/07/09
You should see some of the comments on Obama's facebook. His status is "this is history." Everyone seems to thinks this reform will dramatically change the course of history and our lives. I think it's a big step towards change, but I also feel like it's almost a slap in the face to women who are getting royally fucked by this reform act to call it "historic" or "world-changing." #healthcarereform
11/07/09
11/07/09
Oh well. Might start packing for Canada now. #healthcarereform
11/07/09
And they will whisper across the gates.
"NO" #healthcarereform
11/07/09
11/07/09
And they're not in hell? #healthcarereform
11/07/09
PS - Yay! #healthcarereform
11/07/09
12:03 AM
and yeah, i'm sad at humanity too. because of this. #healthcarereform
11/05/09
11/05/09
I'm not saying that the latter cases have more weight- I think the procedure should be covered no matter what- but simply that the myopia on this issue is absolutely astounding.
*I know it's called a D&C, but isn't it called that in every case, or are they playing semantic games here and calling the same procedure by two different names in order to push a moral agenda?
11/05/09
Could these people be trying to make it more difficult to save the lives of women in a failing pregnancy? You just scared the shit out of me. I need to go do some googling, stat....
ETA: Just reread, but I still wonder could this be used to split hairs in both directions?
11/05/09
I just don't see how they think they can limit access to one use of the procedure and not affect the other use, which they can't morally oppose. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
11/05/09
11/05/09
* sorry, extra cranky today #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
11/05/09
Not only do they not care, I am fairly certain that a large number of abortion opponents don't know that these services have other uses other than terminating a viable fetus. I think all we need to do is look at the falicious partial-birth abortion crap to understand that. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
11/05/09
11/05/09
That's my point: if they don't know, why aren't they being told? Why isn't someone on committee standing up and saying, look, you nutbags, this is a medical procedure and it has more than one use, so get off your moral high horse, stop trying to kill women through neglect, and pass the damn bill without limitations on a procedure that you obviously know nothing about?
In short, I'm thinking that the other uses for a D&C could be used to leverage continued coverage for the procedure in general. Naive, I know, I know... #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
So the answer is yes. Though I don't know the particulars. I seem to remember MoGlo talking about this a little bit in yesterdays thread... #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
11/05/09
11/05/09
[www.guttmacher.org]
"The actual answer is probably somewhere in between, meaning that most Americans with employer-based insurance currently have coverage for abortion." #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
Sorry to grill you, but I'd love to know how this works. #abortionquestionsholduphealthcarereform...
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
Word. I can't believe we're getting kneecapped by members of our own party. I get that we're a big tent and don't go much for purity tests, but if you are anti-choice enough to deny other women the right to abortion, just come out as a Republican already. You're sure as hell not doing the Dems any good.
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/03/09
11/03/09
Because if not, why the hell do these people think a public option would? Wouldn't it just get filed under "elective procedure" and you'd have to pay for it yourself? #healthcare
11/03/09