Foreign Affairs

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Somali Insurgents Impose A Version Of Islamic Law Called "Anti-Woman"
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sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
11/03/09

In reply to Somali Insurgents Impose A Version Of Islamic Law Called "Anti-Woman"
Cultural relativism, give me strength. #somalia
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aureliajones
11/03/09

@sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell: You're not serious, are you? #somalia
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sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
11/03/09

@aureliajones: /sarcasm. #somalia
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aureliajones
11/03/09

@sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell: hahahahaha. I was so scared that it was genuine. You rule. I'm dumb. And again, you rule. #somalia
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MerryLilly
11/03/09

In reply to Somali Insurgents Impose A Version Of Islamic Law Called "Anti-Woman"
Playing soccer is banned? What does it have to do with anything?

I don't agree with the other restrictions either, but I can somewhat see where they are coming from.
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Edited by MerryLilly at 11/03/09 11:37 AM MerryLilly was starred MerryLilly was unstarred

yvanehtnioj
11/03/09

@MerryLilly: Enlighten me, then. #somalia
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MerryLilly
11/03/09

@yvanehtnioj: Obviously I don't agree with the restrictions at all. But I can imagine that dancing and movies are banned due to "moral" issues, etc. However what "harm" could they see in playing soccer? The whole thing is becoming kinda pointless. #somalia
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sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
11/03/09

@MerryLilly: Typically women are allowed to play soccer if they are part of women only teams with female spectators. Apparently it is inappropriate for men to watch them in compromising positions, probably due to their athletic clothing etc. It seems these laws have just gotten more restrictive. #somalia
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MerryLilly
11/03/09

@sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell: Thanks for the reply! Wow, that's sad. Couldn't they just prevent men from watching these games? I mean, this was one of the few fun and empowering things these women could do :( #somalia
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JerseyGrrrl
11/03/09

In reply to Somali Insurgents Impose A Version Of Islamic Law Called "Anti-Woman"
"We have taken this step after we recognized that women need to stay in their homes and take care of their children," Maalim Daaud Mohmed, the chairman of Balad Hawa, told reporters.

Revolutionary thinking, huh? I guess it sounds better than that the wimmins wer gettin' too equal. #somalia
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CherriSpryte
11/03/09

In reply to Somali Insurgents Impose A Version Of Islamic Law Called "Anti-Woman"
Anyone know the names of the three organizations? #somalia
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snobographer
11/03/09

@CherriSpryte:
[www.reuters.com]
"The organisations closed by al Shabaab are the Halgan Businesswomen's Organisation, the Sed Huro Human Rights Organisation and Farhan Woman for Peace, he said."

There's also a story from Oct in which Somali insurgents* have been publicly whipping women for wearing bras. Depressingly, but not surprisingly, a couple outlets made that story into a joke and then never mentioned it again.

*How are these dickheads "insurgents" if they have the authority to impose laws and close down organizations? They're sounding a lot like the Taliban in the 1990s.

I want to do something, but I don't know what would help. Anybody have any ideas? #somalia
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CherriSpryte
11/03/09

@snobographer: They're insurgents because hypothetically, the Transitional Federal Government is governing Somalia. When in fact, they're doing jack shit - they have no control or power. In the absence of an actual government, "insurgents" or "rebels" or "who's claiming this land as their own this week" have been imposing laws - such as no bra-wearing. They can do this because nobody is bothering to tell them not to.
As far as what you can do, there's VERY little aid getting to Somalia these days. [www.foreignpolicy.com]
It looks like World Food Programme's still there, so donate to them if you can.
The organization I work for supports several independent media houses in Somalia, so if you happen to want information on that, (and your heart broken on a semi-annual basis), you can get direct information here: [www.nusoj.org]
But I don't think there's any way to donate directly to that group. #somalia
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CherriSpryte
11/03/09

@snobographer: Oh also, thank you greatly for finding out the organization names. #somalia
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snobographer
11/03/09

@CherriSpryte: Thanks for the info. I'll bookmark your org and make a donation to the WFP.
If there's anything there like RAWA, or an org that can get aid directly to the women there, somebody please let me know. #somalia
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snobographer
11/03/09

@CherriSpryte: The FMF website says the insurgents are planning to close down 5 more organizations, but they won't say the names of those orgs. #somalia
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CherriSpryte
11/03/09

@snobographer: Note about NUSOJ - I don't work there, I work for one of their funders.

In terms of women's groups, there's a well-respected organization called "Save Somali Women and Children" - www.sswcsom.org - that is doing amazing work, but I don't know about ways to donate to them. #somalia
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Trulymadlyme
11/03/09

In reply to Somali Insurgents Impose A Version Of Islamic Law Called "Anti-Woman"
Uh, I guess these guys don't know who the Mad Mullah was and history. Islamic fundamentalism is basically a massive fail in Somali society because of its distinct culture. It just doesn't translate.

[en.wikipedia.org]

It's a fucked up place, mainly due to being run by various violent factions, but I actually seem to recall someone trying this recently and people being like, "uh, I can't watch soccer? Pass." Also, dancing, music, and poetry are part & parcel of this culture.

I'm more curious as to whether the "Islamic" fundamentalist factions are trying to assert their power because there is currently a massive power struggle over who exactly gets to hold that white British couple hostage.
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Edited by Trulymadlyme at 11/03/09 11:14 AM Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred

CherriSpryte
11/03/09

@Trulymadlyme: Except its not a total fail. The Union of Islamic Courts had control of most of the south of the country for awhile in 2006, and, while repressive, there was peace for the first time in 15 years. Until US-backed Ethiopia invaded, but that's a different story. Al-Shabab is an offshoot of the remnanats of UIC, and they're the ones imposing these laws. #somalia
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Trulymadlyme
11/03/09

@CherriSpryte: My understanding of the Union of Islamic Courts was that while they did have control over certain parts of the Southern portion of the country for a brief period, they lost it and other factions took over. Plus, I seemed to recall that there was a lot of flux among the various groups that had control over the various portions of the Southern Somalia over the past 20 years. They were all violent and horrible and corrupt but some just use the tag of "Islamic" to throw down an additional helping of horrible.

Then again, I could be wrong since my family was from the northern part of the country which was somewhat more quiet and they all seemed to have gotten this info third hand.
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Edited by Trulymadlyme at 11/03/09 11:31 AM Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred

sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
11/03/09

@Trulymadlyme: Ever heard of Sharia law? Somalia has it. #somalia
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Trulymadlyme
11/03/09

@sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell: Parts of it may currently or have in the past had Sharia but Sharia in and of itself is not Wahabism and the manner in which it is implemented across the board varies dramatically.

Also, this point cannot be stated enough: Somalia is a clan oriented society in which governs the manner in which the vast majority of people conduct their dealings, and the various, changing groups that wield power are violent, driven by resources/greed, and lack even a passing relationship with Islam, Sharia or Wahabism (which truthfully is what this article is referring to). Could there be Wabaism oppressing people there? Of course. In terms of the myriad of fucked up things in that society, it's just another janked piece of the puzzle. #somalia
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sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
11/03/09

@Trulymadlyme: I do not mean to suggest that Islamic fundamentalism is the only destructive factor in Somalia. However, I did want to point out that it is successful to an extent as it was only recently introduced in 2009 and the parliament now votes in accordance with its principles.

EDIT [edition.cnn.com]
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Edited by sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell at 11/03/09 12:46 PM

CherriSpryte
11/03/09

@sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell: Islamic fundamentalism was in Somalia way before 2009. And the parliament is ineffective at best, so it doesn't so much matter how they're voting. #somalia
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CherriSpryte
11/03/09

@Trulymadlyme: UIC lost control of the south, particularly Mogadishu, because the TFG invited Ethiopia in to kick them (the UIC) out. It wasn't internal fighting, or anything clan-related, in that particular moment. Agreed, since Barre was ousted, lots of different groups have controlled, or tried to control, the south. And no one's succeeded for long. But UIC was the most stable system they'd had in a little while, and the fact that they were attacked because of the "growing fundamentalist threat in the Horn of Africa" is fucked up. #somalia
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sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
11/03/09

@CherriSpryte: I am aware that Islamic fundamentalism has existed prior to 2009 in Somalia. But the fact that the parliament disregarded more progressive law for tribal alternatives demonstrates its increasing significance in the region. #somalia
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Trulymadlyme
11/04/09

@sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell: Again: tribal law =/= Wahabism law. #somalia
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morninggloria
11/03/09

In reply to Somali Insurgents Impose A Version Of Islamic Law Called "Anti-Woman"
Oh, Somalia. What a libertarian paradise! #somalia
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AlmostDream
11/03/09

@morninggloria: Ha, that's basically my response anytime someone claims to be a libertarian. "You know where you can be free from all this terrible 'government control of everything'? Somalia. Have fun!"

Being that the only people who ever say this to me are white males, that tends to shut them up pretty quickly. #somalia
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nyc-caribbean-ragazza
11/03/09

@morninggloria:

I love when people say they don't want ANY government. Usually these are middle-class to well-off Americans. I can understand less government, but no government?

I suggest someone drop their butts in a country where there is no working/central government and see how they like it. #somalia
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nothanks
11/03/09

@AlmostDream: I'm confused, how can somalia be libertarian if women are being forced to do things against their will? i dont know a lot about the politics of the country #somalia
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yvanehtnioj
11/03/09

@nothanks: Libertarian != Liberal

Libertarians claim they don't want any government interference at all. (What most of the jackasses that claim to be libertarian in the US mean is that they do want all of the benefits, like schools and roads and fire departments, but they don't want to pay taxes.) #somalia
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sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
11/03/09

@yvanehtnioj: My boss is a libertarian. Yesterday he tried to make me read an argument made by Ron Paul about our economy, and how its collapse was not related to capitalism in any way. I tried to explain to him why this assertion was fictitious, as it disregarded the multiple mechanisms which allow our society to function, but to no avail. #somalia
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marciax3
11/03/09

In reply to Somali Insurgents Impose A Version Of Islamic Law Called "Anti-Woman"
This effort will fail. Have y'all met Somali women? They don't play this shit. #somalia
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RubyPenelope
11/03/09

In reply to Somali Insurgents Impose A Version Of Islamic Law Called "Anti-Woman"
Groups will do anything to gain power and terrorizing people and imposing insane regulations is a by product of their quest for power not religious purity or anything else. #somalia
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linnyt is a walking cliché
11/03/09

In reply to Somali Insurgents Impose A Version Of Islamic Law Called "Anti-Woman"
That is just too disgusting. Where is the humanity in some people? #somalia
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PetiteGal
11/03/09

In reply to Somali Insurgents Impose A Version Of Islamic Law Called "Anti-Woman"
The same thing could happen here if too many right-wing extremists get their way. #somalia
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shoroko
08/24/09

In reply to Iranians Question Women's Ability To Manage
Tell that to Khadija.
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Bgirl_Hamster
08/24/09

In reply to Iranians Question Women's Ability To Manage
Sounds like old objections in America over women managers.

I will consider these objections "old" on the day that a female is voted into the White House.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
08/24/09

@Bgirl_Hamster: And when I don't continue to hear them from business guys with a few drinks in them.
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keldo
08/24/09

In reply to Iranians Question Women's Ability To Manage
It's a good thing my husband, my ex and my son are not conservative clerics. Otherwise none of their lives would be managed. All kidding aside, without me no bills would be paid, no income taxes filed, no FAFSA forms filled out and certainly no toilet paper for weeks on end.

Women can manage. Look around.
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lolababy
08/18/09

In reply to Hillary Clinton, Women's Rights, & Colluding With Global Misogyny
1. Women are the choosier sex. It gives them greater biological power.
2. Men are biologically determined to procreate. In order to do that, they need to limit that power.
3. No country in the history of the world has ever been truly stable, in every way the US government cares about, while its women do not have at least the capacity to be autonomous.

You don't have to give a fuck about poor, black/brown/yellow/chartreuse women, DOD/Powers That Be, but you need to recognize that these are unavoidable biological facts that you cannot continue to ignore.
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Edited by lolababy at 08/18/09 5:07 PM lolababy was starred lolababy was unstarred

Scribblenerd
08/18/09

In reply to Hillary Clinton, Women's Rights, & Colluding With Global Misogyny
The plight of women around the world is ALWAYS dismissed as trivial. After all, people care more about the animals Michael Vick abused than the women that he (and other athletes) abuse.
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Cunning_Linguist
08/18/09

@Scribblenerd: Exactly. I just can not understand why women's rights are usually relegated below animal rights in terms of attention and importance to so many people.
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Jen82
08/18/09

@Scribblenerd: SO true! I was debating about this with a co-worker -- he is a sports fan and is outraged that Michael Vick is getting a second shot and I was less surprised and I mentioned that athletes are accused/convicted of rape and sexual assault frequently and they always get to have their comeback. He then told me that what Michael Vick did was worse than rape and my head exploded.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith promoted this comment Edited by Jen82 at 08/18/09 1:39 PM Jen82 was starred Jen82 was unstarred

Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
08/18/09

@Jen82: Guys, this issue has been discussed to the death before on Jez, and it's easiest probably to just state that both are of equal importance, and that supporting one should not have to be to the detriment of the other. Comparing oppressions is something that nobody ever wins.
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