not sure how you can compare posh and amber rose? why would amber rose recieve the same treatment as posh who is a fashion 'icon', and has been working in fashion for about a decade (regardless of anything else, shes been a fashion place for years). whereas amber rose has been on the scene for about half a second and her claim to fame is being kanye wests girlfriend.
no comparison. not saying she should be trivialized as a woman or anything of the sort. just that there is NO comparison between her and posh - and to imagine that she would be treated with the same regard as posh with reference to fashion..yeah, no
The thing is, Kanye West styled this, not an Elle staffer. Though you can blame them for that questionable idea, I don't think you can genuinely say this is a race thing, when it's actually a Kanye West has sleazy taste thing. I agree it would be more interesting to see her in something more couture, something edgy and structural, but this is the way Kanye chose to dress her.
@ZanCabaiste: I think we simply don't have enough information to know what happened here. IMO, the results aren't happy, whatever the explanation.
I clicked on the link Dodai provided to another site. There, Rose is very pretty, but even that shot of her in the halter and tight jeans is rather tacky, not fresh and certainly not innocent. I'm beginning to think that hip-hop boy toy is her chosen mode of presentation,* not that black women are given a lot of options in the media.
*I had no idea who she was until reading this post. I kept seeing photos of her here and wondered, who's that?
Amber is also a former exotic dancer and I don't think she has any quams about being styled around her booty. If she did she seems a strong enough woman (or tall enough) woman to tell Kanye & Elle to back off.
So we tell women to own it and be their own person and then when they are, we assume that there's no way they could have chosen it for themselves? Based on how she presents herself, acts, who she associates with, her career and a multitude of other factors I'd say there are far more worthy and credible things to be outraged over. I think she looks fierce and original and I'm pretty sure that's the look she chooses to have.
@milominderbinder: I don't think Dodai is claiming Elle forced Amber to do this. But it is very odd that this kind of shoot would even appear in Elle, since it looks more like it belongs in Maxim or King. Nothing wrong with being sexy, or portraying yourself however you want, but I don't know that Elle (or any other high fashion magazine) has ever run something so clearly not high fashion. It's very out of place.
@AlmostDream: But the thing is it wasn't done by the stylist at Elle. Kanye did this and so he wants her to continue to be portrayed as such - not Elle (though, yes, they could have asked him to change it) and not AMber (because models don't usually have a say in how they are styled for shoots).
It's just one more thing to wag your finger at Kanye for...I would have liked to see her in another light as well (she's almost always half dressed on red carpets).
Yes this is consistent with Amber Rose's image, and yes she was styled by Kanye, but I think it just really goes to the way we look at black women in general, and frankly how we discuss black women's posteriors. Can you imagine a white model, even with a similar image as Amber Rose, having two shots specifically dedicated to her ass?
What's also funny is another post today in which Jenna included a transcript of an interview with Crystal, a plus size model and they discussed how insulting it was that a photographer told Crystal that she had "a fat ass."
Although it was a cruel remark, I thought they were being a bit hypersensitive. But if you're a black woman, be prepared to have your (possibly) big booty critiqued night and day.
One more thing 2,3,4,5 are Hip Hop images. Very rarely would see a female within the Hip Hop cultural net or association in something more...what is the word I am looking for here? Um, clothed? Sophisticated? Sassy? What is the word? I don't know but you get my point right?
I'm shocked he didn't go full out and shoot only her ass in a two-page, ahem, spread - perhaps he's saving that for his stint as guest editor at King magazine...
Maybe this is what she wanted? I'm trying to look at it from another perspective, so hear me out, if you will. She's already known for her personal style choices, aka wearing....the stuff she wears. Which is not for everyone and I'm sure there are tons of women who'd never go out like that (myself included). However, it's not about what I like or what you like or what Elle's readership likes: it's more about her, and her signature. It doesn't seem like she wants to fit into any boxes. And yeah, she's beautiful and statuesque, and I would love to see her in a super-femimine gown or a pencil skirt or even a Chanel suit. But maybe to her that would feel really unnatural. Anyway one way to look at it is, to each her own, and again, maybe this is exactly what she was aiming for.
@emilypdx: i don't think that's a fair comment at all. From what little I know about her personal life, I know she is photographed at the gym constantly, at least so far as my doctor's office tabloid reading is concerned. But you know, skinny people, eating disorders, that's where a comment about photoshop should obviously lead to.
@ampersandparade: Not that it is completely relevant, but Posh has given many an interview where she goes through how she stays thin- she NEVER works out (she is certainly not seen at the gym like...ever) and has stated she hates exercise and sticks to a "very, very strict diet" that includes no carbs, no surgars, low fat, etc. She specificies that she likes to eat sashimi and edamame.
So, coming from a skinny person I am going to have to say Emily's comment wasn't that out of line considering the lady in question.
Two things:
What's up with the blonde Barbie that she's holding in Image 5?
And Elle: "When he's turned off by your body in bed. How to know. How to deal"? That's not an article, that's a sentence - Get rid of him
@Penny: Yeah, but editors control what goes inside their magazines. Did they think outside the box and TRY to pitch her something fabulous, or attempt to make a more "Elle" shoot happen?
@Penny: exactly, i'm confused how anyone could think she's being discriminated against...that's completely absurd to me. considering she wore a bodystocking to the VMAs- and her other fashion choices in the past, i mean.... regardless, those cutt offs she was wearing are probably still $500. Who is to say she would enjoy a high glamor shoot- we're imposing our standards on her style perhaps? Maybe she doesn't want to show herself in a different light, she's still breaking into the picture and wanting to establish her own style.
@par3: Yes, but the shoot--not talking about Amber Rose, but the artistic choices made in the shoot itself--does not fit the overall aesthetic of the magazine, compared to other photoshoots. Even when Elle had Britney Spears in the magazine, the shots, if I remember correctly, were black and white and fairly high fashion.
@Dodai: Could dressing her in uptight tweed with high necklines also be seen as an attempt to strip her of her originality and make her more "palateable" to the average Elle reader?
@LaFemme: Good point. However, there has to be a grey area between super sexy or laced up in tweed.
They even could have done sexy in a empowered (I know...I know...) sort of way. Dodai had another post like this regarding Rose a bit ago, and (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think the problem is the sexuality in the shots, but the submissive positions she seems to always be in.
Not that there's anything wrong with being submissive in, uh, fun and games, but when it's the usual theme of a shot for her, it looks problematic. I don't want to pretend she has no agency, but I wonder why she always is photographed like this.
Wow, tangent. Not all of that was directed at you LF.
@Dodai: I'm certainly not saying WOC are not portrayed differently very often in fashion (I think I said this below), but in regard to this specific shoot, I can't say. I don't know how much editorial control they have over "star" produced shoots. From what I've seen of West, it seems like he would have the attitude of "I have the best idea EVER," but who knows...
@LaFemme: I think this is a valid point, and kind of brings us back to the discussion around how Black women are portrayed in magazines like Straight Stuntin' (I think that's what it's called). I certainly felt a bit of that vibe coming from this shoot.
@greengrey: I think the last post about Rose was in comparing her photos with those of Grace Jones. That whole discussion, while related, is on a bit of a different plane, for me. The former shots were so overtly animalistic, while these feel like they are more in line with her persona, from what I have seen, at least. You certainly cannot ignore the eye through which this was concepted, and I am guessing it was West in great part.
@Dodai: If they'd done that, I wouldn't have been surprised to see comments relating to how Elle tried to "whiten" and "clean up" a black woman with a strong sense of personal style and make her conform to their idea of beauty.
@hortense: Wouldn't we otherwise be commending the mag on changing up their style on the usual celeb shoot? A frequent criticism of ELLE is that the magazine is always producing the same kind of fashion editorials featuring the 'stars of the moment'. While the other's in the editorial seemed to be shown in a predictable style, i feel the way Amber was presented was refreshing and new. I just feel like no matter what is presented- what was presented in ELLE or the opposite (her being shown in tweed or in a business blouse) we're going to be saying someone is trying to change her or make her conform and not allowing her to express her individuality. Despite the damning note that the shoot was 'styled by Kanye', i think people are always looking for a 'hair in the egg yolk' as we say in croatian.
@Titania: gah! i didn't see what you wrote before i responded to Hortense but i basically was trying to say what you said so well in just a few sentences.
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no comparison. not saying she should be trivialized as a woman or anything of the sort. just that there is NO comparison between her and posh - and to imagine that she would be treated with the same regard as posh with reference to fashion..yeah, no
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I clicked on the link Dodai provided to another site. There, Rose is very pretty, but even that shot of her in the halter and tight jeans is rather tacky, not fresh and certainly not innocent. I'm beginning to think that hip-hop boy toy is her chosen mode of presentation,* not that black women are given a lot of options in the media.
*I had no idea who she was until reading this post. I kept seeing photos of her here and wondered, who's that?
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It's just one more thing to wag your finger at Kanye for...I would have liked to see her in another light as well (she's almost always half dressed on red carpets).
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She could choose to go the high-fashion route but she's milking everything she can get out of her big ass.
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Also, passively aggressively calling her a slut isn't cool.
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What's also funny is another post today in which Jenna included a transcript of an interview with Crystal, a plus size model and they discussed how insulting it was that a photographer told Crystal that she had "a fat ass."
Although it was a cruel remark, I thought they were being a bit hypersensitive. But if you're a black woman, be prepared to have your (possibly) big booty critiqued night and day.
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I'm shocked he didn't go full out and shoot only her ass in a two-page, ahem, spread - perhaps he's saving that for his stint as guest editor at King magazine...
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So, coming from a skinny person I am going to have to say Emily's comment wasn't that out of line considering the lady in question.
09/17/09
What's up with the blonde Barbie that she's holding in Image 5?
And Elle: "When he's turned off by your body in bed. How to know. How to deal"? That's not an article, that's a sentence - Get rid of him
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Obviously Beckham has control over how she is shot, and likely Kruger as well.
Seems to me that this is the persona Rose is going for, no?
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They even could have done sexy in a empowered (I know...I know...) sort of way. Dodai had another post like this regarding Rose a bit ago, and (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think the problem is the sexuality in the shots, but the submissive positions she seems to always be in.
Not that there's anything wrong with being submissive in, uh, fun and games, but when it's the usual theme of a shot for her, it looks problematic. I don't want to pretend she has no agency, but I wonder why she always is photographed like this.
Wow, tangent. Not all of that was directed at you LF.
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This.
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