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Her Grace
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
I'm a super-picky quasi-vegetarian. I eat veggies because they cost less and are easier for me to prepare, but I don't turn away all meat if someone else makes it for me. The few times I've tried to be a vegetarian purposefully have all turned into eating disorder-like obsessions. It is better for me to remember that I'm too poor to buy meat or eat out often (which is when I get meat), and concentrate on delicious vegetables made at home. It gives me some leeway, too, that the vegetarians I know don't have--I can only object to restaraunt choices because the menu is unappealing, not because they literally have no food I can eat.
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sakura_latte
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
I guess this post helped me to understand why some vegetarians find it difficult not to eat meat and stay vegetarian. I never really understood it before, to be honest.

I'm 23, and I've been fully vegetarian for 8 years, and in the few years before that I only ever ate meat to be polite at friends' houses and such, I never ate it at home. My parents both eat meat, but from an early age I never liked it so eventually they just stopped giving it to me.

I'm also ethically against eating meat, as well as just not liking it, but I think in my case the two are linked; my primary school faced out onto the back entrance to a slaughterhouse, so at break and lunchtime, we could watch all the cute animals going in the back on trailers. In addition, my Mum worked there, and one of her friends there gave me a lovely tour one day, so I knew that all the cute animals going in were going to be hanging carcasses by the end of the day.

I daresay that's probably where my vegetarianism comes from, but anyway, for ethical and "just not liking it" reasons, I never even contemplate eating meat, let alone miss it. So it always made me wonder why people who didn't feel the same as me bothered. Not in a judgemental way, just in a curious way. And now I understand a bit more.
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buymecandy
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
I was a pescatarian for probably 10 years and I recently expanded my food choices for a variety of reasons. It was never a major thing for me because I've never seen meat as very exciting. My choice really had more to do with a rejection of "beef eating is American" than anything else. Some people seem to think it is anti-american to not eat meat. I think that's a symbol of our very gluttonous culture (which I was also rejecting).

But put in context of emotional attachment, I can see why people are so shocked by those who don't eat meat. Food and emotions are quite mixed up - it just so happens that my emotional attachments had more to do with a mix of pasta, cream cheese, and butter.
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sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
My boyfriend and I are vegetarians. At home, it's not too hard, because we have food available. But when we go out to dinner, it can be really tempting to just go with the path of least resistance and order something with meat in it. I've found there are not a lot of options out there...
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Edited by sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell at 10/13/09 11:27 AM

slowpoke.r
10/13/09

@sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell: Ask the chef what they will do for you, what options they offer for veg*ns. I get amazing (and usually quite simple) meals that are not on the menu all the time just by asking. Sometimes they just send out pasta with marinara, but other times- like the other night- I get a meal everyone else envies. (They served me polenta with lightly braised mushrooms, perfectly cooked spinach and a fresh romescu sauce, all vegan.) Of course it depends on the restaurant- you're SOL at any chain, basically- but a good cook or chef will often have a dish they usually make for veg*ns or will have a little fun with it.
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sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
10/13/09

@slowpoke.r: Thanks for the tip! Next time I won't be as hesitant to ask about making changes to a dish.
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LaFemme
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
I was raised vegetarian for awhile and both my parents were veg 25 years plus... I am now an omnivore, and my challenges with vegetarianism at this point in my life are kind of like Foers, in that they are not exclusively practical, but have an emotional component as well.

I travel a lot, and have lived in several different countries long term. Often, I have lived with other people, and in places where vegetarianism is really rare. In my mind, if I am going to take full advantage of living in another culture, I need to be a person who says "yes" to the experiences offered to me, and food is part of that experience. I try to be a go-with-the flow type in every other way, I don't think demanding that others meet my dietary needs (that aren't really NEEDS but preferences) goes with this. It may also be that I fear being seen as rude, and I think to a lot of people rejecting food is not taken as well as say, in the States where everyone has a diet of some type. So, for better or worse, I can't be vegetarian because I need to be able to choke down some guinea pig or intestines when these times roll around.
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tundrababe
10/13/09

@LaFemme: The fear of being seen as rude is the biggest problem I have being a vegetarian. I haven't traveled a lot, but I like to try new restaurants and be friends with people from different backgrounds. Sometimes I find myself explaining what a vegetarian is to people who look at me like I'm a crazy person, and I feel like such a jerk. I can't bring myself to go against my beliefs though (not to mention I'd get sick if I ate meat now, having been a vegetarian for over a decade). It feels like a need and not a preference to me though. I wonder how people with other food beliefs feel when traveling, for example, Muslim and Jewish people?
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artdecoco
10/13/09

@tundrababe: I've had a few friends go back to eating meat after decade or more of vegetarianism and none of them got sick. I know each person is unique in this regard, but just wanted to pass along some information that not everybody gets sick when they start eating meat again.
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Carlos the Dwarf
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
I'm not a vegetarian but have vegetarian/vegan friends, for whom I have a ton of respect. I often think about decreasing my meat intake but... I just can't. I love it so. It's just so tasty. :( But it is also a cultural thing for me as well. My parents/grandparents grew up during wartime and often went hungry. After moving to the U.S. and having easy access to meat, they constantly encouraged us U.S. born kids to eat, eat, eat. My cousin gave up meat for a summer once and the family was in an uproar. They could not understand why a person who has access to meat, would choose not to eat it. They grew up eating it once a year and seemed to consider it a personal offense and sign of disrespect that he was choosing not to eat it. Also, most of our family/cultural traditions revolve around food and I do have a lot of nostalgia when it comes to certain dishes. Sometimes I feel like it's the only really bond we have (sadly) and I couldn't give it up.
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Wiffy
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
Ethical vegans are cool, eating meat is pretty gross but nature is violent. You can never rid the world of carnivores and this whole 'vegan is more moral' idea really bugs me because it tries to deny the fact that people are naturally hunters who kill to survive and often find killing to be a thrilling, fun thing. I mean, are lions immoral creatures because they kill cute little veldt creatures for survival? Are dolphins evil because they eat fish? People are not cows, we can't survive on grass. Sad, but true.
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whynotshesaid
10/13/09

@Wiffy: I can't speak for others but what causes me to get queasy about eating meat isn't the actual act of eating meat (because I agree, eating meat happens all throughout the animal kingdom), but rather the conditions in which the animals are raised and then slaughtered. Not only is it cruel to the animals, but it's environmentally unsustainable and not particularly healthy for us either.
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Flackette Goes Retro
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
In one couple I know, the woman is veg (and has been since age 13) and the man is an omnivore, but eats veggie by default since he's married to her. That's cool, I can handle cooking veggie-friendly when they come over. In another couple I know, the woman eats meat but cannot have any dairy. I can also work around that. However, I'm afraid if I got these two couples together for a dinner party, my head would explode trying to adapt my southern-bred cooking to both needs. I realize this may show my own culinary limitations, but I do find it tricky to keep up with the dietary needs of my guests, particularly when I'm a steak-loving omnivore. The few times I've attempted this, by making something vegan, I felt really stressed out and afraid I'd be judged for my usual carnivorous ways, or for, say, putting out a cheese plate. I guess what I'm saying is that for every person who is rude about someone's vegetarian or vegan ways, there is another hostess scared to death of offending someone, receiving a lecture on the evils of dairy, slighting omnivorous guests in favor of others, or forgetting about that dash of Parmesan in the pasta or butter in the pie crust.
So, um, anyone know any good resources for southern-style veggie/vegan friendly food?
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Laulau
10/13/09

@Flackette Goes Retro: I'm sorry (on our behalf). :( The only thing I don't like about being veg is that it feels so rude to accept an invitation into someone else's home, only to demand that they cook in a certain way.

Oh, and I know of at least one vegan soulfood restaurant in Brooklyn (Red Bamboo, I think) but to be honest I didn't really enjoy it.
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LadyNo Fondles Sweaters
10/13/09

I haven't read it yet, But Mark Bittman has a vegetarian cookbook out, and I trust him to make tasty food.

I've had chicken-fried tofu and smoked tofu jambalaya. Fried green tomatoes could be made veggie, although you'd probably need an egg for the breading.

Squash soup is an easy, delicious vegan meal that I've served to vegan guests a number of times. Whether pumpkin curry or butternut squash with sage, I doubt you'll miss the meat or dairy. Serve a salad on the side with toasted walnuts & cranberries (and crumbled goat cheese for those who can eat it).

OK, I need to eat lunch now!
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pesematology
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
Jonathan Safran Foer is like woah.
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whynotshesaid
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
The comments in this article have inspired me to break out my copy of Vegan with a Vengeance and try some more of the recipes. I love to eat meat but I find it so ethically questionable that I am always trying to find a way to eat less of it. Honestly, I wish we could go back to a time when it was seen as more of a treat and less of a staple, which was how it was when I was a kid (meat dish would take up two-thirds of the plate, while the starch and the veg was consigned to the remainder).
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billybobnyc
10/13/09

@whynotshesaid: Your meat took up two-thirds of the plate, and it was a "treat?"
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whynotshesaid
10/13/09

@billybobnyc: Augh, I realize that sentence was poorly constructed. What I meant was that I wish things WEREN'T like how it was when I was a kid, because it wasn't a treat, it was the main deal.

Oy vey, this is what I get for posting before coffee.
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purpleshoes reminds everyone to take typing breaks and stretch, ow
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
One of the things that broke my vegetarianism (it's not completely gone - I eat meat a couple of times a year at most) was when my aunt said sadly that she wished she wasn't going to be the last generation to use her family's fried chicken recipe. Between the members of the next generation who are on permanent diets, the ones who won't eat chicken, and the ones who eat anything but will never learn to cook, she's seriously afraid that she's going to be the last one who remembers any ancestral recipes.

I need to call her and tell her I eat chicken now, so long as it's farmers'-market chicken, and that I'll bring some to Christmas so that she can show me what to do with it.
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pesematology
10/13/09

@purpleshoes reminds everyone to take typing breaks and stretch, ow:

I guess I'm lucky that my grandmother can't cook to save her life. There's nothing she can try to guilt me into eating (not that she would try). No, she just tries to guilt me into hating Arabs, which just doesn't hold the same temptation as food.
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purpleshoes reminds everyone to take typing breaks and stretch, ow
10/13/09

@pesematology: It mostly got me thinking about how all these skills that come from a more sustainable food culture (really, is having some chickens pecking around your back yard and occassionally eating one of them less sustainable than shipping soy jerky from Taiwan?) are being lost in favor of eating patterns that are only more sustainable in an industrialized, mass-farming context. On a small-farm level, keeping pigs and chickens make sense. It's only when you increase the size of the farms by about a bazillion and insist that everyone eat meat at every meal every day of the week that it becomes ecological suicide, and either way, I don't think we're going to be able to farm like that forever.

My aunt is also Down East - part of a small-fishing culture that global warming and commercial trawling has pretty much destroyed - and I do have a strong feeling that if there's anything that I can learn from her before her people (who still speak a little Irish Gaelic, they've been isolated on the coast for so long) are completely subsumed into Standard American, I should learn it, even if it's how to fry a chicken you've kept in your backyard next to the collards.
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Edited by purpleshoes reminds everyone to take typing breaks and stretch, ow at 10/13/09 9:47 AM

onestrawplz
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
This is a great post. I'm vegetarian, and I often feel guilty because sometimes I see a grilled chicken breast and want to eat a bite. I never do, but I have snuck the occasional shrimp from my boyfriend's plate or something.

I'm vegetarian for ethical, environmental, as well as health reasons, but I do feel conflicted because occasionally I will buy a pair of leather shoes (I'm sorry, unless you're shelling out big money for shoes designed by Stella McCartney or Natalie Portman, most vegan shoes aren't that great) if I need them.
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FrannyR
10/13/09

@onestrawplz: I'm also a vegetarian for ethical and environmental reasons and I wonder if you have considered buying free range chickens? There is such a huge differance between farmed chickens and free-range chickens, those plants are barbaric. The power of the consumer is real, if we buy ethically produced foods, the stores will carry more of those items. They want to make money, so they carry what sells, simple as that. And it's better to buy locally produced chicken meat from free range chickens than eating shrimp, both from an ethical and environmental point of view. I'm not saying that you SHOULD eat chicken, don't do anything you don't feel is right for you, but it could be worth considering? Also, cravings can suggest that you're lacking something in your diet. Maybe eat more proteins or vitamin B etc and the craving might pass.
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onestrawplz
10/13/09

@FrannyR: Thanks for the suggestions. I've thought about that before and while I'm definitely much less opposed to eating a chicken that was deprived of oxygen and became unconscious before it was killed (I forget what the technique of slaughter is called, but basically the chickens pass out from lack of oxygen and then are killed, so it's supposedly painless for them), I'm still not sure if I like the idea of going back. I'm a huge animal lover and I think even chickens are sweet and curious little creatures. But I will look into seeing if I have a deficiency in anything.
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roxythekiller
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
This whole "Carnivore vs Veg" debate often ends up with people yelling at each other, and not examining context.

If Vegetarianism can kill, so can meat. Statistically, meat eaters have a higher rate of heart disease, and that is the leading disease-based cause of death among US citizens. However, this does not mean eating meat will automatically cause heart disease--- eating an unbalanced diet will, and both vegetarians and meat eaters can do that.

A "very strict beans-and-broccoli budget" diet that doesn't cover all the nutrients would make anyone sick and underweight. Yet that isn't an example of how vegetarianism can kill you--- it's an example of how not eating all nutrient groups can. Both vegetarians and meat-eaters can be healthy as long as they eat a balanced diet of the vitamins their bodies need.
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Shauna Theel
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
Right now I "usually eat vegetarian."

Basically, if anything has meat and tempts me, I have a bite. On a regular day I do not eat meat, but this allows me to feel no regrets. Reducing your meat consumption reduces a lot of the negative effects of meat eating, but isn't consistent with being absolutely opposed to killing an animal to eat. And by being happy, and showing other people a lifestyle they can imagine living, I help encourage others to reduce their meat consumption! Which reduces a lot more meat consumption than my one bite a week.

I have a lot of respect for vegetarians and vegans, but being a foodie, this is what works best for me and I no longer feel guilty for my choices.
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Laulau
10/13/09

@Shauna Theel: I'm fairly certain that I'll never go back to eating animals, but since I'm curious, I'll ask - this doesn't give you digestive issues? I once had a delivery place accidentally give me dumplings with meat in them and it made me really ill. I've always thought (but maybe this is psychological) that after so many years, my body may be less adept at digesting meat.
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Opti-Miss
10/13/09

In reply to On Meat And Memory: What Vegetarians Give Up
Interesting. I've recently gone back to an omnivorous diet after being a vegan for 2 years, and community has played a huge role in that decision. I moved away from a close-knit group of activists and other vegetarians to a country where vegetarian mean omnivore, but with a little less meat. Of course, I don't eat meat because it's easier (there are a million and one complex reasons for every choice), but being able to re-find a place in a society that ignored me because of what I didn't eat is priceless.
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voteforme
10/13/09

@Opti-Miss: This is an aspect of vegetarianism that a lot of people downplay or present as something worth fighting for: vegetarians/vegans often find themselves being gradually excluded from social outings if they've been really picky about restaurants in the past. If you can't go where your friends are going, you eventually lose those friends. It doesn't mean that either side is wrong, just that you can't expect other people to change just to suit you.
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Janyl
10/13/09

@voteforme: I can see how this would be an issue for vegans, but not for vegetarains-- there are generally vegetarian choices available in most restaurants in New York-- at least the ones that I know of. I do avoid "steakhouses", however. Really being a vegetarian is not cause for excessive pickiness.
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Edited by Janyl at 10/13/09 3:46 AM Janyl was starred Janyl was unstarred

NotMandatory
10/13/09

@Janyl: New York, yes, but there are hundreds of towns in the midwest that still have just one vegetarian option - usually some unappetizing pasta dish.
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Flackette Goes Retro
10/13/09

@NotMandatory: Not sure if this is representative, but I live in a middle-sized city in the south, and even the home-cookin' diners usually have vegetarian-safe dishes (not vegan, though - there's almost always butter or cheese involved in southern cooking). My veggie friends usually eat pastas, salads, soups, sides, bean-based things, etc.
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NotMandatory
10/13/09

@Flackette Goes Retro: Yeah, I think most middle-sized cities everywhere are getting better at offering a wider range of food. And, as much as I hate to say it, I think that a lot of chain restaurants are figuring the vegetarian thing out. But when I visit my family in the middle of nowhere in Ohio, there are definitely still restaurants with no vegetarian option at all.

It's one of the things I like about living in Britain - it's much better for vegetarians. Unfortunately, most of the veggies here are runty little things. : (
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