Brilliant! I knew it when I saw that drag episode of Project Runway that it was one of their best, if not the THE best, show they've aired. #queensofdrag
No drag act, or any stage/variety act, will ever come close to when I watched a drag queen lip synch to Whitney's version of "I will always love you" while being urinated on by naked musclebound men in pig masks. Even on mouth contact, she didn't miss a note. Good time had by all! #queensofdrag
I know that there are serious analyses of drag out there...but at the end of the day..Lady Bunny says it best...
"you may like your cake, that's how I love my pie..that doesn't make any of you better than I"... #queensofdrag
Oooo, I don't know anything about how shows get produced but is there anyone I can email to let them know I would watch this show if it was picked up? #queensofdrag
I don't hate drag, I just don't get what's inherently funny about men acting like stereotypically "fabulous" women. I understand gender identity, which I don't believe drag is so much about. Rather, I see drag as a sort of minstrel show where the target is women rather than African Americans... I've only been to two drag shows and I was bored to tears.
LaComtesse promoted this comment
Edited by Mireille is German for the Bart, the. at 11/12/09 1:34 PM
Mireille is German for the Bart, the. was starred
Mireille is German for the Bart, the. was unstarred
Very interesting way to put it. I’d say, however, the main difference is that gay or trans men are marginalized groups. So it’s a marginalized group pretending to be another marginalized group, unlike blackface. #queensofdrag
@Mireille is German for the Bart, the.: You beat me to it. I was just about to post the following: I have always found it odd that drag queens are so celebrated for something which, for me at least, sometimes has undertones of misogyny. If they targeted any other traditionally oppressed section of society for their often unsubtle caricature, many people would be rightly offended. #queensofdrag
I understand drag to mean representing gender in some way in public, in a way that mocks, mimics, criticizes, or admires gender roles in society. It is inherently playful, yet can be very thoughtful. The drag shows I've seen have had some numbers where the kings/queens go through conflict about masculine versus feminine presentation (through dance--I know, hard to describe, but awesome!) which ultimately challenges gendered stereotypes and assumptions.
I know my friends have a really open drag troupe, but my understanding is that a person, regardless of their identity off-stage, can represent themselves any way on stage. (For example, if a woman acts fem on stage, she's doing a burlesque act at a drag show.)
And personally, I have never been bored at a drag show! #queensofdrag
@Rare Affinity: Another excellent point. I don’t even necessarily disagree with the original statement (I’d have to think about it a bit more). I’m asking your question of myself, though something that comes up for me (and this isn't my answer, but something I'm mulling over) is that, historically (from the beginning with few official exceptions) to be a Jew in America is different than being a Jew anywhere else in the world. Jews were never denied the right to vote, or civil liberties on account of their being Jewish as a matter of law; they were never told they were 3/5 of a person or not a person at all. Women and members of the Queer community, however…
That said: I really don’t know the answer to this. #queensofdrag
@Mireille is German for the Bart, the.: I see it like this too, and I love the analogy you make. When I explain my feelings on this, I've never been able to convey them so well as you just did.
I think drag performers are mocking a gender construct, or more exactly the existence of gender constructs. They're playing with gender as a way to disarm it, I think. However, doesn't it seem impossible to mock "femininity" without also mocking, by extension, those who subscribe to it or are shaped by it? This is what I can't reconcile.
It seems like the relations between women and gay men as oppressed groups and as people is not always as cheerful as what's depicted by caricatures like Will and Grace, and Carrie and Sanford. If some of us treat them like accessories, some of them treat us like jokes. #queensofdrag
@molo_lola: I have to say, I've never seen a drag king show, or even a mixed drag show... And the only drag they ever seem to show on TV is drag queens. If this show features drag kings as well, I'd have to think about it a little more.
And as far as gay men, I've run into gay men that are just as misogynist, if not more so, than Tucker Max. Just in different ways. #queensofdrag
@Rare Affinity: I did my thesis paper in college about the use of crossdressing (male and female) as a comedic device and a lot of the tradition is absolutely based on how we generalize gender identity. For instance one would not see a drag queen in jeans and a t-shirt (unless everything else, make-up, wigs, made up for the banality) on stage at least. The humor and the showmanship lie in the extremes of what is universally considered gender fact and then subverting it (being grotesque and over-the-top to the point of cartoonishness). Actually, I should say the subversion is only a recent development in the tradition. There were drag kings in vaudeville at the turn of the century for instance who were extremely popular for their uncanny impersonation of sailors and working men without much irony.
I'm leaving out a lot but it's a big topic. God, I loved writing that paper. I called it Dress to Kill by the by. #queensofdrag
@Mireille is German for the Bart, the.: I don't think it is meant to be inherently funny. There are definitely comedic drag queens. But there are also very serious drag queens who clearly have tremendous respect for the women they imitate in their performance. I have seen incredible impersonations of Tina Turner by drag queens that focus on her strength and dancing abilities. I always saw the humorous acts in the show no different from humorous acts in a variety show. They happen to be drag queens performing the acts because the entire performance is drag queens.
I have also heard things that are clearly anti-woman by drag queens, but it is almost always incorporated into the act as the queen being caddy because she is jealous of the real woman or making fun of heterosexuality. #queensofdrag
@molo_lola: You would have probably appreciated my friends performance of Bowie singing Suffragette City at a drag king show many moons ago. Most of the audience didn't understand a feminine drag nor nor the be-sparkled female backup singers. #queensofdrag
@Lymed: Haha, that does sound great. And don't get me wrong, sometimes drag is about being campy, and being dramatic. But if feminist drag can and does exist, then I refuse to believe that all drag is misogynist! #queensofdrag
I love drag queens. I find them fascinating and often, very beautiful. Perhaps this is in part because so much of the music and art that I love has been inspired by them. Perfect example: Antony & the Johnsons, Lou Reed/Velvet Underground, Andy Warhol's Factory. "Candy Darling on Her Deathbed" is one of my favorite photos of all time. I will definitely watch this show (assuming that it is much better than that VH1 travesty, "RuPaul's Drag Race.") #queensofdrag
@LucilleMcGillicuddy: He's healthy but HIV+ and got an infection (I think a staph infection?) and had to leave to get treatment for it. V. sad. #queensofdrag
I also think that it would be tremendously good to have an HIV positive television host, hopefully breaking into the mainstream. Despite what we would like to think there is still a lot of stigma surrounding this disease in the US and I think that Jack Mackenroth has helped with coming out with his status on Project Runway and will help even more if this project is successful. #queensofdrag
These "races" piss me off on so many levels. Not only are they risking what could potentially be serious injury, they just seem so "oh silly women running in silly shoes." Why don't they get serious and run in a real race with proper athletic equipment? Why do you need to look cute when you're competing/exercising?
That said, the gay man can seriously motor in those heels. I agree with him. Running in heels is stupid.
@shushi: It is stupid, I agree, but it tends to garner a lot of attention... which equates to more money for their cause. Silly, sure, but it's for a good cause.
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"you may like your cake, that's how I love my pie..that doesn't make any of you better than I"... #queensofdrag
11/12/09
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Very interesting way to put it. I’d say, however, the main difference is that gay or trans men are marginalized groups. So it’s a marginalized group pretending to be another marginalized group, unlike blackface. #queensofdrag
11/12/09
11/12/09
11/12/09
I understand drag to mean representing gender in some way in public, in a way that mocks, mimics, criticizes, or admires gender roles in society. It is inherently playful, yet can be very thoughtful. The drag shows I've seen have had some numbers where the kings/queens go through conflict about masculine versus feminine presentation (through dance--I know, hard to describe, but awesome!) which ultimately challenges gendered stereotypes and assumptions.
I know my friends have a really open drag troupe, but my understanding is that a person, regardless of their identity off-stage, can represent themselves any way on stage. (For example, if a woman acts fem on stage, she's doing a burlesque act at a drag show.)
And personally, I have never been bored at a drag show! #queensofdrag
11/12/09
That said: I really don’t know the answer to this. #queensofdrag
11/12/09
I think drag performers are mocking a gender construct, or more exactly the existence of gender constructs. They're playing with gender as a way to disarm it, I think. However, doesn't it seem impossible to mock "femininity" without also mocking, by extension, those who subscribe to it or are shaped by it? This is what I can't reconcile.
It seems like the relations between women and gay men as oppressed groups and as people is not always as cheerful as what's depicted by caricatures like Will and Grace, and Carrie and Sanford. If some of us treat them like accessories, some of them treat us like jokes. #queensofdrag
11/12/09
And as far as gay men, I've run into gay men that are just as misogynist, if not more so, than Tucker Max. Just in different ways. #queensofdrag
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I'm leaving out a lot but it's a big topic. God, I loved writing that paper. I called it Dress to Kill by the by. #queensofdrag
11/12/09
I have also heard things that are clearly anti-woman by drag queens, but it is almost always incorporated into the act as the queen being caddy because she is jealous of the real woman or making fun of heterosexuality. #queensofdrag
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But not all gay men are misogynist. And not all gay men are drag queens. And not all drag queens are misogynist. And on and on.
Your issue doesn't seem to be with drag then, you know? #queensofdrag
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I would order cable just to watch Queens of Drag ; sounds Divine! #queensofdrag
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I always that that if I was gonna be a drag queen, my name would be Miss Anthropy. #queensofdrag
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Except I'd feel awkward using it as a drag name, as I'm not exactly super-endowed in the titular (heh) area.
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Or Stewie Griffin.
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That said, the gay man can seriously motor in those heels. I agree with him. Running in heels is stupid.
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