Stupak-Pitts is a step backward for the evolution of healthcare, equality, economics, and science.
We eat GM crops and animals, yet we can't take the intellectual risk of entertaining a secular government that works to resolve real problems with science, economics, and policy? Cowardly. Too much controversy, too much work.
If there were a profit in abortions, you'd be able to get one at a vending machine, like a photo-booth. #kateharding
I know a lot of people are saying that this was the concession that gave us the chance of health insurance. And health insurance is great, but the interesting thing about insurance is it's for what you don't expect to happen. Like a broken arm, or swine flu, or say...UNPLANNED PREGNANCY.
If we expect tax payers to pay for other legal, safe, medical procedures. Why can't we expect tax payers to pay for this unexpected health consequence?
*Also, my tax money goes to lots of things I don't personally agree with, that doesn't mean I dont pay my taxes or hold out on something till I get my way. #kateharding
@Kristinkles Ingabogovinanana: I unsubscribed to the DCCC list this morning and explained that I was disgusted with the Democratic leaderships continued dismissal of progressive voices and vowed only to donate to individual progressive causes and candidates from now on. #kateharding
@Triana Orpheus: I'm thinking it's time the progressives of this country took the reigns and stopped apologizing for not being crazy. That's all I've got for right now, but once my plan fleshes out a bit more I will let you know. If I decide we need to organize a coup Lady Gaga will be designing the uniforms.
Question: Can we just storm the Libertarian's headquarters and repurpose their offices for our own use? Lawd knows they aren't seeing much action right now.
EDIT: In the words of Dwight: "Playtime is OVER!!"
@Kristinkles Ingabogovinanana: I think we should start by putting a horse's head in Joe Leiberman's bed. And by horse's head I mean popping the head off a My Little Pony doll. No need to mutilate a beautiful creature for that a-hole. #kateharding
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: No kidding. Are there any legit protests going down? Because I will haul my broke butt down to D.C. to stand and shout. #kateharding
@fictitious: As a veteran resident of our nation's capital, it's been my experience that protest marches and the like generally don't make much of an impression, particularly when the issues being protested are progressive issues. My suggestion is to make it clear to any politician or organization that solicits you for help that you are done spending time, energy or money in support of crappy legislation. The grassroots came through for the Dems in a big way last year and they're still trying to capitalize on the infrastructure they put in place back then. Unsubscribe to the DNC, DCCC, DSCC, OFA, and anyone else that may come looking for your money or time, and be sure to tell them exactly why.
The guys over at Americablog started a boycott of sorts over LGBTQ issues, and there's really no reason why politically minded Jezzies (are there any other kind?) couldn't do the same thing. Their boycott is actually getting some decent MSM attention, too. #kateharding
@Triana Orpheus: Why can't we? This is how the second wavers worked, getting together, organizing protests and having meetings at people's apartments, until there were enough of them to form organizations like NOW.
@eclare09: I still think we need to organize in our local districts and I really like the sending coathangers thing. We need some way in order to get the message out that we are no longer going to support them with our time and money and we need the MSM to do it. #kateharding
@fictitious: I think that yes, DC is just too used to them. In addition, most marches have become completely hyperbolic and ridiculous. During the W. years it was frustrating because marches that would begin with solid intentions and legitimate complaints would basically become magnets for every possible progressive cause, and the message would become completely diluted. The other problem is that for whatever reason politicians find these crazy right-wing tea-bagger protests much scarier than anything that sane progressives could muster up. I think it's endemic to the moderate-liberal nature to be more easily persuaded by conservative vehemence while dismissing progressive vehemence.
@Triana Orpheus: I actually agree that local action is likely to be more effective. If you can flood a Representative's local office with messages it will probably have a decent impact.
In general I would focus on your individual Congressperson and Senators. Righteous anger is good, but it only works if you take pains to first position yourself as a "reasonable" person. For example, "I have been generally supportive of Rep. X, but I am absolutely appalled by his support of the Stupak-Pitts amendment." Make sure you have a firm understanding of exactly what it is that the amendment says, especially if you are going to call the office, because Congressional aides are going to try to convince you that you're understanding of the matter is wrong. #kateharding
Some of us panic about losing a Democratic majority and start hollering at others to quit being so picky and oversensitive about our "single issues" and take one for the team.
Wordy McWord. If the Democrats are throwing women and gays under the proverbial bus, the only thing they have left is minorities...minorities who don't happen to also be women and/or gay.
I wanna be a lobbyist when I grow up. #kateharding
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: Fuuuuck! I'm so sick of letter writing campaigns! I want to be on the news screaming about how I want my country back. I want Keith Olbermann to gloat smugly about the massive turnout of the women's rights protest. I don't want to send John Cornyn another form letter that he's not going to read. #kateharding
@Triana Orpheus: I know. Politics is tricky shit. That's the reason I switched majors from Political Science. I'd love to do an actual protest, though. #kateharding
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: Seriously. I would love to be rockin' my Farrah hair and burning Bart Stupak in effigy. We should do a Take Back the Night level protest. Like, Take Back Our Rights. #kateharding
@Triana Orpheus: I'd be all over that. I kind of secretly hope to move to DC after I finish college, but I'm not sure what I'd be able to do there. #kateharding
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: Well, I do think if we seriously did something it would have to be in D.C. You're in my area I think, we could organize here, but we would have to take our fight to the hill. #kateharding
@Triana Orpheus: Hands down we'd have to hit the hill. Which is going to be economically unfeasible for a lot of like-minded people. Although if we had free cupcakes we could probably attract some passerby to join in just for the food. #kateharding
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: Man, it really helps to have a corporate backed "grassroots organization" that can afford to charter buses from state to state to harrass congressmen. #kateharding
Women have already been forced to deal with a drastically undercut Roe v. Wade. We've been told "Well, you can get an abortion, but you're going to have to drive 100 miles one way. And dodge protesters who will send letters to your parents telling them you killed their grandchild. Also, if you want a Pap smear you're going to be called a whore by the same protesters. Your doctor will have to tell you medically inaccurate bullshit. But you should be grateful for the right to choose!"
This is barely a choice lately. Like Kate, I've had it. #kateharding
Supposed Christian people - supposed to follow "love one another" and "judge not" and yet they can still spew such hateful bile.
AND SD piling more misery on women who've already made a miserable decision (women rarely make this decision lightly). Is it any wonder I prefer animals?
Wait, what is this? You're alright with aborting fetuses, as long as they're the fetuses of a group you don't like? And you and people like you have the gall to say the president is like Hitler???
Edit: I am not suggesting that abortion is like the Holocaust, simply trying to point out the irony in people who do say abortion is like the Holocaust and Obama is like Hitler going on to express their approval of abortions (or deaths of those already alive) for only a certain group of people.
"Whole, separate and unique"? A fetus is not any of those things.
Whole: It is still developing and depending on the gestational stage, does not even have a fully developed set of internal organs, including a brain.
Separate: The fetus lives inside and off of the woman's body and is entirely dependent on it for survival. Separated from the woman, it cannot live independently. So a fetus cannot experience meaningful separation from the mother.
Unique: See above. Also, a fetus has no independent identity outside the woman. In fact, even an infant has no separate identity. That is a later stage of psychological development that won't begin to happen until long after birth, so it's really not at all relevant to the choice to terminate or not.
As for the notion of the fetus being "living," that is a more philosophical issue as to when life begins. But it is, as with many things in the abortion debate, a moral/ethical/philosophical/theological issue that has no consensus and should be left up to the individual to decide. Legislating morality is a bad, bad idea.
When you parse that statement down, you realize it has nothing to do with "informed consent." It's more like "misinformed coercion." Just as in the health care reform debate, I don't know how we are supposed to reason with blatant liars.
So, dude, it's amoral and wrong and evil if the right kind of person aborts, but if a librul aborts, well, one less crazy leftist to vote against?
GBfhinfejrges.
I don't think I can even type anything that expresses my anger here.
@Lady Saira, Vere de Vere: So if he thinks some people should get abortions, doesn't that make him pro-choice? No, he doesn't want women to have the power to have a choice, so I guess he's just pro-abortion. One more piece of evidence that "pro-lifers" don't give a shit about people.
This was my town hall meeting, and I sat about three rows down from that guy. He kept making snide remarks at all the Democrats and booed anyone who disagreed with him. And he was only one of the crazies, who were all white, middle-aged, and well off.
@Experiment626: It's a funny reference, but I also feel like this guy totally shows how that kind of rhetoric is really bad, whether it comes from liberals or conservatives. I guess the song, and maybe the movie Idiocracy, are more tongue-in-cheek about it, but it's still kinda messed up.
Well, I've always thought I'd opt for abortion over adoption for fear that a pro-lifer or religious bigot would raise the child. I couldn't bear to have that.
It's funny, though, to find out where the pro-lifers break down, really, when it comes to which abortions are worse than others. Wish they'd asked about Mexican babies.
It's so crazy living over here in Europe with our legalised abortion, socialist healthcare and education. It's exactly like living in a Nazi-Soviet gulag-camp and it's a wonder we all make it through the day to our evening aperitifs.
Ugh, I HATE the fact that abortion is even an argument. If you want an abortion, get one! If you don't, don't! By trying to inflict your personal "moral" views onto the rest of society, you take attention away from bigger issues that we really should be contemplating. I mean...shouldn't we, as a society, focus on the quality of life for people that ALREADY EXIST? And why, anti-choicers, are you getting bent out of shape about fetuses that AREN'T EVEN YOURS?!
@Skellatrix: Don't mean to be argumentative, but laws are created to reflect the prevaling moral views of society, it was one of the aims of the law. There is a moral element to the criminal law that can't be denied.
All I'm saying is that there's plenty of precedent for people deciding what's moral, and imposing their views on the minority as law. It's kinda part of how society works. I'd love to smoke a joint right now, but I can't. That because past versions of our society impose a moral restriction on me through the laws they passed. I disagree strongly, but I obey. It's the law.
@Agumen: But something being a law does not necessarily make it irrevocably "right".
If the majority said that, say, sodomy should be illegal again, that doesn't make it okay to become law.
Mmrph. I don't think I'm explaining myself properly, but I think you get the gist of it.
@Agumen: You have a point, but the analogy fails here where a fundamental, constitutional right is implicated. SCOTUS has decided the Constitution gives a woman a fundamental right to privacy, which would be violated by outlawing abortion. Many jurists don't agree, of course, but the mere fact that some yahoos - even if they were a majority of the population - don't like abortion doesn't mean it can be forbidden.
@Agumen: You forget that this country was designed to prevent the majority from forcing their moral values on the minority. I believe if these ideals were respected to their fullest you would be legally allowed to smoke that joint, and any woman could abort or keep her fetus with no interference from the government. Just because the religious right has hijacked the system doesn't mean that moral restrictions are correct or American. Criminal law is designed to protect public property and life, not to dictate moral behavior.
11/11/09
We eat GM crops and animals, yet we can't take the intellectual risk of entertaining a secular government that works to resolve real problems with science, economics, and policy? Cowardly. Too much controversy, too much work.
If there were a profit in abortions, you'd be able to get one at a vending machine, like a photo-booth. #kateharding
11/11/09
If we expect tax payers to pay for other legal, safe, medical procedures. Why can't we expect tax payers to pay for this unexpected health consequence?
*Also, my tax money goes to lots of things I don't personally agree with, that doesn't mean I dont pay my taxes or hold out on something till I get my way. #kateharding
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Question: Can we just storm the Libertarian's headquarters and repurpose their offices for our own use? Lawd knows they aren't seeing much action right now.
EDIT: In the words of Dwight: "Playtime is OVER!!"
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Never mind, that's not how government works. #kateharding
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The guys over at Americablog started a boycott of sorts over LGBTQ issues, and there's really no reason why politically minded Jezzies (are there any other kind?) couldn't do the same thing. Their boycott is actually getting some decent MSM attention, too. #kateharding
11/11/09
We can do it. #kateharding
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11/11/09
@Triana Orpheus: I actually agree that local action is likely to be more effective. If you can flood a Representative's local office with messages it will probably have a decent impact.
In general I would focus on your individual Congressperson and Senators. Righteous anger is good, but it only works if you take pains to first position yourself as a "reasonable" person. For example, "I have been generally supportive of Rep. X, but I am absolutely appalled by his support of the Stupak-Pitts amendment." Make sure you have a firm understanding of exactly what it is that the amendment says, especially if you are going to call the office, because Congressional aides are going to try to convince you that you're understanding of the matter is wrong. #kateharding
11/11/09
11/11/09
Wordy McWord. If the Democrats are throwing women and gays under the proverbial bus, the only thing they have left is minorities...minorities who don't happen to also be women and/or gay.
I wanna be a lobbyist when I grow up. #kateharding
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"I don't want to send John Cornyn another form letter that he's not going to read."
They have you blacklisted too? #kateharding
11/11/09
This is barely a choice lately. Like Kate, I've had it. #kateharding
08/21/09
AND SD piling more misery on women who've already made a miserable decision (women rarely make this decision lightly). Is it any wonder I prefer animals?
08/21/09
Edit: I am not suggesting that abortion is like the Holocaust, simply trying to point out the irony in people who do say abortion is like the Holocaust and Obama is like Hitler going on to express their approval of abortions (or deaths of those already alive) for only a certain group of people.
08/21/09
Whole: It is still developing and depending on the gestational stage, does not even have a fully developed set of internal organs, including a brain.
Separate: The fetus lives inside and off of the woman's body and is entirely dependent on it for survival. Separated from the woman, it cannot live independently. So a fetus cannot experience meaningful separation from the mother.
Unique: See above. Also, a fetus has no independent identity outside the woman. In fact, even an infant has no separate identity. That is a later stage of psychological development that won't begin to happen until long after birth, so it's really not at all relevant to the choice to terminate or not.
As for the notion of the fetus being "living," that is a more philosophical issue as to when life begins. But it is, as with many things in the abortion debate, a moral/ethical/philosophical/theological issue that has no consensus and should be left up to the individual to decide. Legislating morality is a bad, bad idea.
When you parse that statement down, you realize it has nothing to do with "informed consent." It's more like "misinformed coercion." Just as in the health care reform debate, I don't know how we are supposed to reason with blatant liars.
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GBfhinfejrges.
I don't think I can even type anything that expresses my anger here.
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that only stupid people are breeding
the cretins cloning and feeding
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It's funny, though, to find out where the pro-lifers break down, really, when it comes to which abortions are worse than others. Wish they'd asked about Mexican babies.
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@J.D.Regent: makes ME think of X-files!
08/21/09
Fucking hell, I need a sandwich.
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All I'm saying is that there's plenty of precedent for people deciding what's moral, and imposing their views on the minority as law. It's kinda part of how society works. I'd love to smoke a joint right now, but I can't. That because past versions of our society impose a moral restriction on me through the laws they passed. I disagree strongly, but I obey. It's the law.
08/21/09
If the majority said that, say, sodomy should be illegal again, that doesn't make it okay to become law.
Mmrph. I don't think I'm explaining myself properly, but I think you get the gist of it.
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