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New York, 5:50 PM
Mon Nov 9
52 posts in the last 24 hours
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09/24/09
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But I remain suspicious of a man who thinks that abortion is wrong and murder. I remain even more suspicious of a man who thinks that homosexuality is bad. He's said some vaguely contradictory things (like it's bad to have sex that is not penis + vagina, including anal, oral, and manual sex, and therefore homosexuality is wrong, but that it's ok to be homosexual--as long as you only have penis+vagina sex), but I'm pretty sure his overall stance has been anti-homosexuality.
In my opinion, being anti-homosexuality is utterly at odds with feminism. His stance on abortion is basically that it's muder, but if the child will have birth defects or will cause undue stress on the parents, then it might be ok. It's just--I can't get behind someone who supports and perpetuates these beliefs, even if they say they're a feminist.
09/24/09
There is a YouTube video with him speaking on the subject--I can't find it at the moment but I encourage you to look.
And "I'm pretty sure his overall stance has been anti-homosexuality" is your opinion, unsupported by any evidence. Tibetan Buddhism doesn't condemn homosexuality, but, of course, individuals who practice it have different opinions. Indeed, the Dalai Lama's school of Buddhism is conservative but doesn't foresee anything like hell fire for abortion or homosexuality.
Again, with homosexuality as with abortion -- though these issues are hardly comparable -- no dogma exists in Buddhism.
Please do some research before you accuse someone of beliefs that they in no way have or support.
09/24/09
Again, with homosexuality as with abortion -- though these issues are hardly comparable -- no dogma exists in Buddhism.
If his stance on abortion is that it sucks but it happens and we should try at all cost to avoid it..and he has that same stance on homosexuality (which is what im inferring from "again, with homosexuality as with abortion"), how is that NOT anti-homosexuality? considering that abortion is an act that can, conceivably be a avoided, and homosexuality is a part of a person's identity. homosexuality sucks but it happens and we should try at all cost to avoid it sounds a tad homophobic to me.
or am i reading your post wrong?
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The Dalai Lama considers homosexuality a problem in monastic life -- because of the monks' and nuns' chastity vows and living in a same-sex community. What I want to say is that he doesn't condemn homosexuality as a "sin," though, indeed, his school of Tibetan Buddhism is probably the most conservative and least gay-friendly.
I think it's worth investigating what the Dalai Lama's views on homosexuality and abortion REALLY are and not assume that since he is a religious leader he *should* be likely to hate homosexuals and women who've had abortions. We can't take fundamentalist Christianity as a model for all religions, because it's unfair and, furthermore, it doesn't work.
One may disagree with the Dalai Lama's stance on abortion and/or homosexuality (I don't share his view of homosexuality), but don't equate it with hatred, because it's not about hating or shaming homosexuals or women. I believe that's significant.
09/24/09
"The inappropriate parts of the body are the mouth and the anus, and sexual intercourse involving those parts of the body, whether with a man or a woman, is considered sexual misconduct. Masturbation as well." (page 46)
"Homosexuality, whether it is between men or between women, is not improper in itself. What is improper is the use of organs already defined as inappropriate for sexual contact. Is that clear?" (page 47)
I mean, it's not very clear to me. This sounds pretty much like the whole "love the sinner hate the sin" business that makes me roll my eyes. Homosexuality isn't wrong--but homosexual sex is? Umm, that makes no sense.
Just because he doesn't foresee hellfire for homosexuals doesn't mean he isn't anti-queer folk. I mean, there's a place between marching in the gay pride parade (good) and fred phelps (bad), and that place includes anti-homophobic sentiment. When the leader of a religion, who is often revered (...and fetishized by the west) says that homosexual sex is sexual misconduct, that's pretty clearly and obviously homophobic bullshit.
"[...] This is why we consider abortion to be the same as taking the life of a living being and as such it is not a just action." (page 11)
It isn't "just"--he recognizes that abortion may be necessary, and that each case is individual. But if it isn't just, then it isn't right. It's just that I think that's bullshit. I recognize that you may not agree with me, but the whole one-situation-at-a-time is what leads to things like two doctors deciding if a woman deserves to have an abortion or not. Which--barf.
I understand that it sucks that a man who stands for peace and justice and stuff is not perfect. I don't expect him to be perfect. But I also don't think it's good to talk about how righteous and bad ass and feminist and kind and loving he is without recognizing the anti-gay and anti-woman* stances he actually has (and has chronicled in his book). It's easier to just pretend that he's never done anything bad, but it's just not true.
Also, and this doesn't necessarily apply to anyone on this thread (because I don't know any of you), but--the fetishization of the Dalai Lama in America is creepy and reeks of racist Othering of Asian cultures. It reminds me of Said's work on Orientalism--the west's imagination of what "the Orient" is is more important and real than any actual culture of "the East" (defined as not-the-west). The DL has become a convenient receptacle for everything Americans want to believe about eastern religions--peaceful, wise, wearing robes all the time, etc.
*I consider anything but unequivocal support of on-demand abortions for any woman at any time in any place to be anti-woman. But then I'm a radical feminist, so...
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09/24/09
Really? Really? Honey, you need to graduate from Comparative Lit 101 and embrace a little love for life.
09/24/09
Besides, even if you do engage in "misconduct" the worst that can happen is you spend a couple lifetimes working it off as a dung beetle or something. As an unabashed drinker, smoker, and all around sex-fiend, I'd take that over an eternity of Christian hellfire any day.
09/24/09
Also, I'm not sure how thinking real hard (because it seems to me that you think comparative lit 101 is the same thing as thinking hard) precludes a little love of life. Are we not allowed to be smart and have fun? I don't think my criticism of racist practices by white folks makes me boring, as you seem to imply. Do you consider pointing out subtle racism to be, like, a total buzz kill?
09/24/09
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I may just get off the internet now before my buzz is killed.
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never mind the blowjobs, think about no periods anymore! another reason to come back as a guy!
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The one "l" lama, he's a priest,
The two "l" llama, he's a beast.
And I will bet a silk pajama
There isn't any three "l" lllama.
09/24/09
I didn't need a new reason to love him, but this... THIS made my day!
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Of course, it also means that the awesomer you get, the less likely you are to keep coming back, while people who screw up just keep going around and around...
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Thank you Katy -- this made me smile and not feel cynical for a few minutes.
11/25/08
11/25/08
[robertthurman.wordpress.com]
or do you have a better place that people could go who are interested in this controversy
in Tibetan Buddhism today? I guess gawker is not really a good
place to expand but a link would help...thanks