first problem here - there must have been a few more real celebrities who could have made this list.
#1 - Christina Applegate - bad outfit, yes, but more boring than any other more serious offense.
#4 looks like her stretch pants were so tight she had an "accident"
#10 - Divine will get you, girl!! And technically, what the hell is that anyway - a camel-toe?, a vagina?, a pudendum?, a Georgia O'Keefe forgery? or misplaced Rorschach test?
@sensitivitycop: This is a buggaboo for me - that's a vulva (labia majora to be nitpicky - which I am). The vagina is internal - mostly. Unless we're talking prolapse - and that's the only thing that would make that MORE horrifying.
I'd put #1, #2, #3, #5 and maybe #9 in the "people who tried to look good and failed" category, and the others in the "trying to be cool/edgy/avant guarde but looking the fool" category.
Except #10 because vulva never goes out of style. And his suit is lovely.
I just went on iTunes to download their free Christmas album (thanks for the tip sis!) and I discovered that Chris Brown's album is the #10 spot. #10. Lots of people must be buying. I'm gonna get a drink of the alcoholic variety. Good thing I don't have work tomorrow.
The fun thing about being plus sized is that most maternity clothing doesn't actually fit you if you dare get pregnant (because, y'know, fat women don't have sex, so how could we need maternity clothing?)
I run a plus size boutique online and can tell you just how hard it is to find beautiful, high quality, stylish clothing in sizes larger than a 14. But, it does exist and if we work hard enough we can find it. Contrary to what some of the other commenters have said, just because high quality clothing for plus size women exists doesn't mean women will buy it.
This population does not buy these "bridge and contemporary" priced clothes with near the frequency of our smaller friends. Why? A couple of reasons. 1) Many women feel they don't "deserve" nice clothing because they are too fat. These women have gone into too many clothing stores and been told "sorry, we don't have anything big enough for you" and decided to give up. 2) I often hear, I will buy those designer jeans when I lose 20 pounds. Again, women feel they don't deserve to look and feel good so they don't buy the clothes that do exist to flatter their bodies.
My goal is to change the perception that women have of their bodies and to make women realize that they should flaunt it and feel proud of who they are. Women can be beautiful, put together and stylish at any size, they just need to realize it and put in the effort.
I don't want this to be a big ad for my store, rather just my rampage about the treatment of larger women in general.
I'd love to see a story on the Jez about petite shopping/the incredible bias against petites in the clothing industry. Maybe there just hasn't been one in awhile or I missed it.
People often assume I have no empathy for plus-size women because I'm relatively thin. But petite (and there is such a thing as petite plus-size) women have the nightmare of trying to find clothes cut on a smaller scale. I'm aware of many of the places that do so, but... I still can't buy their stuff in most stores. If I do, it's more expensive- which makes no sense because it's less fabric.
Just look at the joke that was the most recent season of ANTM. It's a joke anyway, but I haven't seen a model under 5'4" on a runway, in a magazine, or any place except a Gap Kids ad. Headway is being made with weight acceptance, I wish some would be made with actual size acceptance.
Is anyone else bothered by that comment from the "well endowed"(huge rack?) woman? Her point about how scaling things up is not enough is well taken, but the other part seems a bit like she feels more deserving than the lazy fatties who haven't worked at losing weight like her. It reminds me of another article from a while ago about airlines charging fat people for extra seats. One guy commented that he thought it was fair since they take up more room, but he was also worried that it would affect him, unfaily, someone who wasn't fat, but was very muscular such that his shoulders and arms went into the other airplane seats. He even included a picture of his beefiness.
For one thing, breasts are still made of fat, even though a big rack is more socially acceptable than, say, a big can. I'm sick of hearing the reasons why particular people need larger clothes/seats/etc. Even if someone is lazy, even if they're fat because they're evil and god is punishing them, they fucking deserve to wear clothing.
@Hana Maru, used up old slutbag on the pole: I don't know if that woman is guilty of it, but you do see a lot of "I'm considered plus-sized and I'm not even [ick!] fat!" comments in these discussions.
@Hana Maru, used up old slutbag on the pole: I could see someone saying that you're reading too much into it, but yeah, when I read it, I had that kind of impression, not necessarily that she was speaking negatively, but rather, that it seems like *every* article on plus-size clothing seems to have to feature a girl talking about how she's not really plus-size but shops in that section for her "off" proportions. And yes, it's true that a lot of women do it, and that their voices are just as important in showing that women's bodies are, and the clothes designed for them need to be, diverse and varied, not one mold. But part of me gets pissed off that these folks are always lumped in with the plus-size debate, and always feature so prominently. I mean, it appears so regularly that it always makes me wonder if authors/editors feel they need to include the "normal" girl in order to make their readers feel it's not "just about fatties".
@Hana Maru, used up old slutbag on the pole: well, you know if there's any area of a woman's body where it's okay to be fat, it's with regards to boobs. nothing else on the body can be fat...no, not even the booty. boobs only can be fat. everything else MUST be skinny. sheesh, didn't you read that pamphlet in junior high?!
@cand86: @thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.: Yeah, I don't think her comment is terrible. I think it's an unconscious thing that is really common, and just speaks to our ingrained fatphobia that people will say they need larger accommodations, but only because[insert socially acceptable good reason to be large] It was an aside to her main point, which I agree with, and I used it as a jumping off point for this larger trend which is bothering me.
@Hana Maru, used up old slutbag on the pole: I don't think she meant it that way. I am what you would consider "well endowed" and I think she just meant that clothes aren't made for women who don't fit into prescribed proportions. Some women are bigger on top, and some are bigger on the bottom. The problem is that the sizing system we have does not work with our proportions. Go shopping for jeans. In the men's section, you get the size by 2 of his measurements. In the women's section, you have to pick the number of best fit, which is usually too big or too small somewhere because it's prescribed.
@lostingenerica: Yeah, I already said that she didn't mean it that way and I also said that I agree with her main point about how clothes not being made for women with curves, which is a hint that I don't need a translation.
But I think that there's a reason you will hear people say "I'm plus size, but I'm not fat, I just have huge boobs" but you would never say "I just have a huge gut that stays the same size no matter how much weight I lose. It's nutty that I wear plus-size clothes even though I'm not fat"
Not only is a woman who carries her fat in her breasts more socially acceptable than a woman who carries it around her middle, the word "fat"(and the phrase "plus size") has baggage that people try(usually unconsciously) to distance themselves from.
Edited by Hana Maru, used up old slutbag on the pole at 12/15/09 2:16 AM
Hana Maru, used up old slutbag on the pole was starred
Hana Maru, used up old slutbag on the pole was unstarred
I love the irony of that last comment, wanting to banish the article to Jezebel. Because at Jezebel we hate and banish other points of view in order to maintain the groupthink, right?
It reminds me of when we threw a bonerkiller party on the D.E.N.N.I.S. page, one of them told us to go back to Jezebel where everyone thinks exactly the same and we can have the groupthink we so enjoy. It happens all the time at Gawker, too. They never realize how ironic it is.
Ugh! I just clicked on the links attached to the article and I'm sorry but those clothes are not cute or hip! Why even write the article, Chronicle, if all you are going to attach to it are sites which fail to prove your point?
I was hoping to get some tips on cool clothing manufacturers (like Anthro or Boden or even Delia's) but for a bigger size. Guess I continue to live in a dream world. Sigh.
@scullymurphy: oh, i just posted a link above, check out alight.com - some of the stuff is TERRIBLE, but there is a ton, and a lot of it is quite cute.
The industry is giving us what we want? Which one of you guys asked for shapeless polyester wear with sequins and plastic "jewels" glued on, cuz that's all I'm seeing at LB and Avenue.
@nerdycellist: me. I also asked that LB be renamed "Omar's Tent Maker" but the request was denied. I like to feel bad about myself and look ugly. It's a little known fact about fat women.
I'm fairly certain that's how they think of themselves. Outside of the awesome lingerie department, shopping at LB is an exercise in self-esteem destruction.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: And the use of polyester, acrylic and nylon exclusively must be a subtle way of making the fat sweat and smell bad, so that stereotype can continue to exist. You are an evil mastermind.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Us fatty boombalatties aren't allowed to have good self esteem. Our natural proclivity to jollyment should get us through.
Your point about the profits involved highlights something I have always found so bizarre about the anti-plus size mentality in the fashion world, Dodai. There is a huge market out there for women such as myself who would LOVE to have easy access to good quality, fashionable, and flattering clothes, and would be perfectly willing to pay good money for them as well. You'd think in this economy that some of these stores like J.Crew or the Gap would wise up and cater to this market as well as the non-plus sized, and I think the fact that they haven't indicates the pervasiveness and deeply embedded nature of this bias.
I am a little disappointed at some of the comments here, e.g. "I’m tall and skinny and I can’t find clothes that fit!" or "I’m petite and hourglass and it’s hard for me to find clothes too!"
Yes, we all have trouble finding clothes that fit us perfectly, but I thought the point of this post was to discuss the systematic discrimination against fat women by the fashion industry and society as a whole. I wish we could have a conversation about this without belittling the experiences of fat women by saying "I’m a size and I have the same problem!" I’m sorry, but it is NOT the same experience.
@SarsDoesntSave: I believe this was somehing that they went over in a commenting post. People should read them.
Not a rant. I feel bwichy whenever I point this out to someone (which I kinda did downthread and did on the opera post), but the matter is it doesn't contribute to the convo at hand and belittles the issue being discussed.
@Blodwynn: Yes, I know we have had this convo about race, but it seems that many people don't get that this is the SAME concept. Sigh. You and I can be bwichy together, I guess.
@SarsDoesntSave: Not everyone gets it about the race thing, either. People are still butthurt about "censorship" or whatever.
This is not the place for me to bring up how I have to hem new pants because what I have to deal with compared to what fat women deal with is not even remotely the same!
@SarsDoesntSave: This happens on every plus-sized clothing post on Jezebel, as well as any other post about a marginalized group. I heartily second your "rant."
@SarsDoesntSave: You don't see any benefit at all to fostering a sense of community between women, and collectively addressing problems that we all have? The fashion industry needs to change to help everyone, not just the people you have deemed worthy. No one enjoys being marginalized, and plus size clothing does need to be discussed, but try to give those commenters the benefit of the doubt. I think it's a lot more likely that they were trying to say "I feel your pain!" or "Oh, hey, a fashion thread? Here are my fashion experiences..." and not "Shut up fatties, time to talk about ME!" I'm getting tired of how people on this site seem to assume the worst of everyone all the time.
@Kajj: Recognizing that people are saying stupid, insensitive things is not the same as "assuming the worse." The point of this post was not to "help everyone" find good clothes. The focus was on plus-sized women, and for a good reason: they have specific issues being poorly treated by the fashion industry (and uhhh the world), and this discussion is about improving their lot. So, yeah, it can be pretty frustrating to have that conversation derailed to talk about sizing issues of thin women.
Did it occur to you that the goal here is not about fostering community, but about lack of empowerment of a marginalized group? This discussion is for their benefit.
@thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.: That does not mean people who contribute by discussing related topics are doing so out of cruelty or the desire to oppress, and acting otherwise is assuming the worst. Did it occur to you that not everyone who fails to parrot your exact thoughts is a villain deserving of your wrath? A gentle redirect towards the topic at hand would go a lot farther than all this hateful rage. And for the millionth time, comments aren't "stupid" and "insensitive" just because you disagree with them. From what I've seen these weren't even comments a sane commenter would disagree with - they were just comments arguably made in the wrong place. Is that so evil?
And exactly which Jezebel threads are about "fostering community" anymore? All I ever see is a litany of complaints against people Jezebelles are better than. I would think a feminist blog, of all places, would understand that not every woman has the same thoughts about every topic.
@Kajj: Okay, hold your rage for someone else. I have not spoken a single rude word (nor any wrath or rage) to a person in this thread, and I expect the same respect in return. In fact, in the one instance where I confronted someone in this post about derailing the conversation, others told me I had handled it gently; I certainly didn't villainize anyone.
A few points:
Oppression is more than just intent; it is also outcome.
This conversation should not be based around making straight-sized people feel comfortable, the center of attention, coddled, whatever. It's NOT about them.
There have been comments in this post that are objectionable because they derail an important conversation away from the topic at hand and onto irrelevant personal issues. It's not a matter of disagreeing, but rather pointing out that members of the privileged or majority group should realize that complaining about their problems in a post such as this is insensitive.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that I think we must all agree (or that I'm responsible for an overall tone at this blog that you dislike).
@Kajj: I think thesciencegirl answered this well, and I want to add one thing.
I am a straight-sized woman, and part of the reason I read threads like this is because they are an opportunity for me to educate myself and hopefully become a better ally to plus-sized women. When the conversation is derailed and co-opted by a privileged group, not only does it serve to further marginalize an already marginalized group, it actually makes it harder for the disadvantaged group to be heard by those who do want to learn and help.
So...in that sense, sometimes "fostering community" just means listening.
@thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.: For christ's sake, asking you (the collective you) to be polite to "straight-sized people" who are making their comments out of an innocent desire to participate is not the same thing as making them feel "comfortable, the center of attention, coddled, whatever." You may not feel that intent matters, but I absolutely do, and I feel like there are plenty of actual jerks out there to worry about without demonizing people who simply don't have the internet experience to realize where they're not welcome. Oh no, we disagree! Grab the pitchforks!
All I'm saying, and trust me, I realize no one will hear it this way, is that the reaction to a misguided straying from the topic at hand doesn't have to be "How DARE you!" followed by a lecture on "privilege" that would have seemed heavy-handed to my freshman sociology prof. Personally I feel like talking about the fashion industry's mistreatment of all women would be a fair sight more constructive than carving our gender up into little groups and declaring who may and may not mention their appearance. But then I guess if we did that, how would we know who we were better than?
@Kajj: You seem really invested in putting words in my mouth, so I think I'll just end the conversation here. If you are interested in responding to my actual points and not ones that you are making up, please do let me know.
I for one agree with Total Complete Tool Thus Womanless (tcttw).
Women who take themselves seriously prove that you cannot take women seriously, while women who do not take themselves seriously should absolutely not be taken seriously. QED, ho's.
I hate this whole idea of "punishing" larger women by denying them nice things. Last time I checked, destroying a woman's self-esteem doesn't cause miraculous weight loss!
I have found all these sites to be helpful at one time or another. From the basic to the unique, I can usually find what I need. For the women who have just graduated to a 16, you might want to try a 14. Plus size cuts are generally more generous with the inches. Happy shopping. I hope this helps.
12/15/09
#1 - Christina Applegate - bad outfit, yes, but more boring than any other more serious offense.
#4 looks like her stretch pants were so tight she had an "accident"
#10 - Divine will get you, girl!! And technically, what the hell is that anyway - a camel-toe?, a vagina?, a pudendum?, a Georgia O'Keefe forgery? or misplaced Rorschach test?
12/15/09
12/15/09
12/15/09
12/15/09
Except #10 because vulva never goes out of style. And his suit is lovely.
12/15/09
#groupthink
12/15/09
#groupthink
12/14/09
12/14/09
This population does not buy these "bridge and contemporary" priced clothes with near the frequency of our smaller friends. Why? A couple of reasons. 1) Many women feel they don't "deserve" nice clothing because they are too fat. These women have gone into too many clothing stores and been told "sorry, we don't have anything big enough for you" and decided to give up. 2) I often hear, I will buy those designer jeans when I lose 20 pounds. Again, women feel they don't deserve to look and feel good so they don't buy the clothes that do exist to flatter their bodies.
My goal is to change the perception that women have of their bodies and to make women realize that they should flaunt it and feel proud of who they are. Women can be beautiful, put together and stylish at any size, they just need to realize it and put in the effort.
I don't want this to be a big ad for my store, rather just my rampage about the treatment of larger women in general.
[www.lagrandedame.com]
12/14/09
People often assume I have no empathy for plus-size women because I'm relatively thin. But petite (and there is such a thing as petite plus-size) women have the nightmare of trying to find clothes cut on a smaller scale. I'm aware of many of the places that do so, but... I still can't buy their stuff in most stores. If I do, it's more expensive- which makes no sense because it's less fabric.
Just look at the joke that was the most recent season of ANTM. It's a joke anyway, but I haven't seen a model under 5'4" on a runway, in a magazine, or any place except a Gap Kids ad. Headway is being made with weight acceptance, I wish some would be made with actual size acceptance.
12/15/09
12/14/09
For one thing, breasts are still made of fat, even though a big rack is more socially acceptable than, say, a big can. I'm sick of hearing the reasons why particular people need larger clothes/seats/etc. Even if someone is lazy, even if they're fat because they're evil and god is punishing them, they fucking deserve to wear clothing.
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
[sarcastic]
12/15/09
12/15/09
12/15/09
But I think that there's a reason you will hear people say "I'm plus size, but I'm not fat, I just have huge boobs" but you would never say "I just have a huge gut that stays the same size no matter how much weight I lose. It's nutty that I wear plus-size clothes even though I'm not fat"
Not only is a woman who carries her fat in her breasts more socially acceptable than a woman who carries it around her middle, the word "fat"(and the phrase "plus size") has baggage that people try(usually unconsciously) to distance themselves from.
12/14/09
It reminds me of when we threw a bonerkiller party on the D.E.N.N.I.S. page, one of them told us to go back to Jezebel where everyone thinks exactly the same and we can have the groupthink we so enjoy. It happens all the time at Gawker, too. They never realize how ironic it is.
12/14/09
Clearly, it's a conspiracy to keep them down. Curses!
12/14/09
I was hoping to get some tips on cool clothing manufacturers (like Anthro or Boden or even Delia's) but for a bigger size. Guess I continue to live in a dream world. Sigh.
12/15/09
12/15/09
12/17/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
I'm fairly certain that's how they think of themselves. Outside of the awesome lingerie department, shopping at LB is an exercise in self-esteem destruction.
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
Yes, we all have trouble finding clothes that fit us perfectly, but I thought the point of this post was to discuss the systematic discrimination against fat women by the fashion industry and society as a whole. I wish we could have a conversation about this without belittling the experiences of fat women by saying "I’m a size and I have the same problem!" I’m sorry, but it is NOT the same experience.
/rant
12/14/09
See also: Not Every Post is About YOU.
12/14/09
Not a rant. I feel bwichy whenever I point this out to someone (which I kinda did downthread and did on the opera post), but the matter is it doesn't contribute to the convo at hand and belittles the issue being discussed.
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
This is not the place for me to bring up how I have to hem new pants because what I have to deal with compared to what fat women deal with is not even remotely the same!
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
Did it occur to you that the goal here is not about fostering community, but about lack of empowerment of a marginalized group? This discussion is for their benefit.
12/14/09
And exactly which Jezebel threads are about "fostering community" anymore? All I ever see is a litany of complaints against people Jezebelles are better than. I would think a feminist blog, of all places, would understand that not every woman has the same thoughts about every topic.
12/14/09
A few points:
Oppression is more than just intent; it is also outcome.
This conversation should not be based around making straight-sized people feel comfortable, the center of attention, coddled, whatever. It's NOT about them.
There have been comments in this post that are objectionable because they derail an important conversation away from the topic at hand and onto irrelevant personal issues. It's not a matter of disagreeing, but rather pointing out that members of the privileged or majority group should realize that complaining about their problems in a post such as this is insensitive.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that I think we must all agree (or that I'm responsible for an overall tone at this blog that you dislike).
12/14/09
I am a straight-sized woman, and part of the reason I read threads like this is because they are an opportunity for me to educate myself and hopefully become a better ally to plus-sized women. When the conversation is derailed and co-opted by a privileged group, not only does it serve to further marginalize an already marginalized group, it actually makes it harder for the disadvantaged group to be heard by those who do want to learn and help.
So...in that sense, sometimes "fostering community" just means listening.
12/14/09
All I'm saying, and trust me, I realize no one will hear it this way, is that the reaction to a misguided straying from the topic at hand doesn't have to be "How DARE you!" followed by a lecture on "privilege" that would have seemed heavy-handed to my freshman sociology prof. Personally I feel like talking about the fashion industry's mistreatment of all women would be a fair sight more constructive than carving our gender up into little groups and declaring who may and may not mention their appearance. But then I guess if we did that, how would we know who we were better than?
12/14/09
12/15/09
12/14/09
Women who take themselves seriously prove that you cannot take women seriously, while women who do not take themselves seriously should absolutely not be taken seriously. QED, ho's.
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
[missphit.com]
[www.kiyonna.com]
[www1.talbots.com]
[www5.jcpenney.com]
[www.landsend.com]
[shop.nordstrom.com]
[www1.bloomingdales.com]
[www.neimanmarcus.com]
[www.torrid.com]
[www.avenue.com]
I have found all these sites to be helpful at one time or another. From the basic to the unique, I can usually find what I need. For the women who have just graduated to a 16, you might want to try a 14. Plus size cuts are generally more generous with the inches. Happy shopping. I hope this helps.