Why don't they institute an abstinence-only program of AIDS prevention in Africa? It's worked wonders completely eliminating teen pregnancy in the United States. #circumcision
They've started 'circumcision clinics' here in South Africa in order to combat the rampant spread of HIV, too. With 1,000 dying per day in this country, it's about time they started doing something about it.
However, my partner isn't circumcised, and I find myself getting defensive over the idea the circumcision is the only way to go, or a cure-all for STDs, as it's often seen here. Scientists have a point, of course - as scientists tend to do - but basic HIV education would do a lot of good, too, and that's still largely lacking. We've got a president (Zuma) who said (during his rape trial, natch) that he thought he could shower to avoid contracting HIV. Circumcision won't help much if there's not a general understanding of STDs. #circumcision
@SleepsWithButterflies: I've written about this online a few times, and I've always been surprised at what an emotional issue it is. Personally, HIV and AIDS are so incredibly destructive in sub-Saharan Africa that I'm thrilled that we've discovered that a simple and safe procedure can significantly lower the risk. But circumcision isn't a panacea, and even if every male in that part of the world were circumcised, there would still be a need for contraception, education and a huge effort to combat the disease.
When I weigh in on it, though, I tend to get dragged into the circumcision wars. I find the medical case for circumcision in the developed world to be almost entirely baseless, and I've argued so; but the anti-circumcision crowd gets on me because I support the use of circumcision in sub-Saharan Africa, or in religious or cultural practice, which is frankly none of my business. I guess it's just one of those issues that is hard to argue about dispassionately. #circumcision
@Freddie DeBoer: I totally get what you mean about the tendency to be passionate about circumcision. I didn't mean to say I'm passionate about it - I don't have a penis and I'm not connected to any religious or cultural group in which circumcision is meaningful - I meant to more insinuate my reaction to people who are passionately pro-circumcision, as if there's nothing else.
I'm new to this discussion, relatively, and I'm still surprised by how passionate people are about it. #circumcision
Education and funding for the use of circumcision to help slow the spread of HIV in sub-Saharan Africa is something I support entirely. It's worth saying, however, that HIV and AIDS epidemiology in sub-Saharan Africa is entirely different from that of the rest of the world, because of certain realities in sub-Saharan Africa. (Namely, cultural sexual practices that greatly increase the risk of blood-to-blood contact through sexual intercourse, and the prevalence and social acceptance of ulcerative genital sores caused by other STIs.)
Circumcision doesn't help outside of sub-Saharan Africa, though, because those unique factors aren't found in other parts of the world. More importantly, circumcision has no effect on the spread of HIV in what are (still) the vast majority of transmissions: male-to-male sexual intercourse and the use of intravenous drugs. Circumcision further does not lessen the risk of male-to-female infection, only female-to-male. The procedure doesn't protect the people who are at risk in the developed world, and very likely protects the people in sub-Saharan Africa because of cultural and medical realities there that are not found anywhere else in the world. #circumcision
@Freddie DeBoer: "More importantly, circumcision has no effect on the spread of HIV in what are (still) the vast majority of transmissions: male-to-male sexual intercourse and the use of intravenous drugs. Circumcision further does not lessen the risk of male-to-female infection, only female-to-male."
Just wanted to highlight these points, because they are particularly important (esp. for Western readers) to understand! Thanks for your post.
@Kivrin: THANK YOU. Male circumcision for all is not the single bullet way to end AIDS in America, and there's a lot of 1st world guys who are pissed off that their parents took from them a healthy, living piece of their anatomy. #circumcision
I really wish that the medical community would make up it's mind about circumcision. My son was not circumsized at birth because it's not common practice in his birth country and I got three medical opinions here on whether to cut or not and got three different answers. My pediatrician told me that she only has a couple kids who are not because many that hadn't initially done it ended up doing it later because of infections and UTI's. One other doctor said do it and the third said it's a personal choice but she had no official stance either way. We ended up not doing it, which now makes me nervous after reading stories like this, not because of that they said but because our insurance company said they wouldn't pay for it because they considered it elective since he didn't have it done in the hospital at birth. That's total bullshit and since there is no official stance on it (medically), they have no plans to cover it in the future unless it's done right after birth. #circumcision
@artyfarty: I'm sure this won't make you feel any better but a friend's sister who recently had a baby told me they wouldn't cover it even IN the hospital, immediately after her son's birth. #circumcision
@artyfarty: If an uncircumcised man practices regular hygiene, there are no medically supportable health benefits to circumcision. As I said above, it seems from persuasive evidence that the advantages in HIV transmission are encountered solely in the case of HIV in sub-Saharan Africa. This is not unusual, as epidemiologically speaking, sub-Saharan Africa is almost entirely unique when it comes to HIV and AIDs.
As far as cultural or religious practice, that's above my paygrade. What I've said to people in the past who are wondering about it from a medical point of view is to say that perhaps the thing to do is to wait until the child is 12 or 14 or so and ask him if he wants to have the procedure then, when he is old enough to understand the situation and, with the help of parents, make an informed decision.
People tend to respond to that by saying "But then they'll never choose to get the procedure." To which I say, perhaps the fact that only infants who have no say in the matter get the procedure done should tell you something. #circumcision
@Freddie DeBoer: Thanks again. It's really a touchy subject and I had very strong opinions coming at me from both sides. We're happy with our decision now but I just wish it had been easier to get a clear medical opinion without personal feelings getting sprinkled in or wishy washy doctors who didn't want to be responsible for our choice. We kept reading about all these terrible things that could happen and having had no experience with it, we were torn. #circumcision
@artyfarty: it's not common practice where I live either, and believe me all the little boys aren't running around with dreadful penile infections. Sometimes, infections are caused by parents not knowing what to do with an uncircumcised child's penis, i.e.: leave it alone!
@Freddie DeBoer: has it right.
@artyfarty: Infections and UTIs aren't really THAT common in boys with foreskins. I say this as a mom to two boys, both intact. :) The problems come mainly from bad information -- don't retract the foreskin, your son will do it on his own. Don't do anything "special" to wash his penis, wash it just like you would a finger. Now that my older son can wash himself, I let HIM wash his penis. He plays with the thing all the time -- I'm pretty sure it's retracting just fine.
And most insurance around me doesn't cover it at all. It's definitely considered elective to most insurance companies. #circumcision
@spamanda: Yeah, that's what I seem to hear. When I called them, she told me that since he was almost 1 (at the time) that they wouldn't cover a penny. I asked her if they would at birth and she indicated that they would, but I think she was wrong. You are also right about bad info being out there. One book I have said to pull back the foreskin and clean under it, but it looked so painful that I did more research and found that to be false. Honestly, I've had no issues with his wiener and have been following a "leave it alone" policy (aside from external cleaning.) He already plays with it constantly so I'm sure he'll have no issue with keeping it clean as he grows up. #circumcision
@spamanda: My husband wasn't circumsized either. Honestly no problems. Its just basic hygeine that everyone should practice. No plans to do it to our sons either if we have them. The whole practice weirds me out... #circumcision
My first thought was "Well, my ex-boyfriend was uncircumcised" and then I got lost in a 20 minute reverie about my ex's penis. Wait, what were we talking about?
I'm so embarrassed to be a Hoosier right now. I have about a dozen rabid conservative females in my family that go by some version of "hoosiermama" as an online handle.
There is so much fail in this exchange. Maybe I'm too young, but i've never heard circumcision be equated with American-ness. I've had sex with American men of all races, only about half of them have been circumcised. I just don't get it. I mean, I want to see his penis, too, but I guess we'll all have to just satisfy ourselves with this: [cache.gawker.com]" rel="lytebox" class="commentImage
A look at Obama's penis is probably what they were after in the first place. They just had to invent a good reason and build it up until "Let me see your penis" didn't sound like a closeted right-wing come on.
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However, my partner isn't circumcised, and I find myself getting defensive over the idea the circumcision is the only way to go, or a cure-all for STDs, as it's often seen here. Scientists have a point, of course - as scientists tend to do - but basic HIV education would do a lot of good, too, and that's still largely lacking. We've got a president (Zuma) who said (during his rape trial, natch) that he thought he could shower to avoid contracting HIV. Circumcision won't help much if there's not a general understanding of STDs. #circumcision
10/29/09
When I weigh in on it, though, I tend to get dragged into the circumcision wars. I find the medical case for circumcision in the developed world to be almost entirely baseless, and I've argued so; but the anti-circumcision crowd gets on me because I support the use of circumcision in sub-Saharan Africa, or in religious or cultural practice, which is frankly none of my business. I guess it's just one of those issues that is hard to argue about dispassionately. #circumcision
10/29/09
I'm new to this discussion, relatively, and I'm still surprised by how passionate people are about it. #circumcision
10/29/09
Circumcision doesn't help outside of sub-Saharan Africa, though, because those unique factors aren't found in other parts of the world. More importantly, circumcision has no effect on the spread of HIV in what are (still) the vast majority of transmissions: male-to-male sexual intercourse and the use of intravenous drugs. Circumcision further does not lessen the risk of male-to-female infection, only female-to-male. The procedure doesn't protect the people who are at risk in the developed world, and very likely protects the people in sub-Saharan Africa because of cultural and medical realities there that are not found anywhere else in the world. #circumcision
10/29/09
10/29/09
Just wanted to highlight these points, because they are particularly important (esp. for Western readers) to understand! Thanks for your post.
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As far as cultural or religious practice, that's above my paygrade. What I've said to people in the past who are wondering about it from a medical point of view is to say that perhaps the thing to do is to wait until the child is 12 or 14 or so and ask him if he wants to have the procedure then, when he is old enough to understand the situation and, with the help of parents, make an informed decision.
People tend to respond to that by saying "But then they'll never choose to get the procedure." To which I say, perhaps the fact that only infants who have no say in the matter get the procedure done should tell you something. #circumcision
10/29/09
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@Freddie DeBoer: has it right.
10/29/09
And most insurance around me doesn't cover it at all. It's definitely considered elective to most insurance companies. #circumcision
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08/25/09
Don't we all, Birthers. Don't we all.
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My father was born in Missouri in 1954 and wasn't circumcised. That happened when he went into the Air Force. So my mom's had it both ways. Ew.
The president is black. There is no mass C-O-N-spiracy to keep the white man down, it's just that things are changing. Get over it.
08/25/09
08/25/09
I'm so embarrassed to be a Hoosier right now. I have about a dozen rabid conservative females in my family that go by some version of "hoosiermama" as an online handle.
There is so much fail in this exchange. Maybe I'm too young, but i've never heard circumcision be equated with American-ness. I've had sex with American men of all races, only about half of them have been circumcised. I just don't get it. I mean, I want to see his penis, too, but I guess we'll all have to just satisfy ourselves with this: [cache.gawker.com]" rel="lytebox" class="commentImage
08/25/09
what. the. fuck.
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