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The Good Wife: Women Undermining Women
Portrayal Of Sexuality In Mamma Mia!: Insulting Or Inspiring?

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Maulleigh
09/23/09

In reply to The Good Wife: Women Undermining Women
Just watched it on my computer. I really enjoyed it! I loved how many women were in this show. I hope it kind of stays all about women and their relationships. Love interests are boring to me. I liked the bit with the Diet Cokes! As a thirtysomething woman, I'm quickly becoming one of those women no one pays any attention to. I'd wet myself if someone buttered me up with a Diet Coke!! I'd spill my guts!
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little_engine_that_could
09/23/09

In reply to The Good Wife: Women Undermining Women
I couldnt get past the fact that she was a junior associate trying a murder case on day three long enough to register and have an opinion on the undermining boss thing. Also this whole we're hiring two associates for one position thing is asinine. Sorry, just coming off of a looong horrible job search for said "junior associate" position :)
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Maritsa promoted this comment Edited by little_engine_that_could at 09/23/09 1:21 PM

sassenach
09/23/09

In reply to The Good Wife: Women Undermining Women
I've had wonderful female bosses and horrible ones. There are a lot of Dianes out there.
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redqueenmeg
09/23/09

@sassenach: That is so true. It may be a stereotype, but they sure are out there.
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willwriteforfood
09/23/09

In reply to The Good Wife: Women Undermining Women
My favorite boss was a woman. She was supportive, ready to listen and a great mentor. I haven't worked for her in 8 years, but we still keep in touch.

My nightmare boss was also a woman and a stereotypical underminer: belittling, caustic, rude, capricious. She once carped at us for using blue ballpoints instead of black, and insisted we keep timesheets in 10-minute increments indicate what client we were doing work for. I got the sense she disliked the women more, but she was pretty even-handed in how badly she treated all the staff, men and women.

I have not found women harder to work for than men, as a rule. Frankly right now it's the men in my office who treat me worse. I don't know if that's because there just aren't any women at my level in the office. I often feel the burden of representing all women managers just because I'm the only one on the floor, so I try to be extra nice so people won't think of me as the Prada-wearing devil.

I think the people under me think I'm a good manager, while the people at my level or above imply I'm a bitch they'd rather not deal with, just because I'm in a position to tell them what to do and openly disagree with them when called for. I definitely get the sense some people just don't lke taking direction from a woman, for whatever reason.
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Highsmith
09/23/09

In reply to The Good Wife: Women Undermining Women
The workplace is a competitive space, especially at law firms. Though women undermining each other is something I could live without, why is it being made into such a "thing" like men don't undermine each other CONSTANTLY at work?
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Trulymadlyme promoted this comment Highsmith was starred Highsmith was unstarred

Trulymadlyme
09/23/09

@Highsmith: Yup. At every large law firm there is a surprisingly large number of people, male or female, minority or non-minority, who are willing to do anything to keep or move up in the pecking order. The thing I've seen from a woman to woman standpoint is the purposeful seeking out of young female attorneys by female partners under the guise of mentoring, which in truth is really the systemic and stealth destruction of the young attorney's career so as to protect her precarious status.

It was a cliche, and there were notable exceptions, but hot damn, if I didn't see it on the regular.
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Edited by Trulymadlyme at 09/23/09 1:03 PM Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred

Highsmith
09/23/09

@Trulymadlyme: that's right, the alphafemales will defend their place in the hierarchy to the death just like the alphamales.
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Maritsa
09/23/09

@Highsmith: Not even alphafemales, just women who feel like their worth is based on being "the woman" and don't want anyone else poaching. Hate them.
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Highsmith
09/23/09

@Maritsa: Yeah, those are no fun. Still, we shouldn't expect women to be "nicer" in the workplace than men.
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Trulymadlyme
09/23/09

@Highsmith: I actually think it's the odd use of "mentoring" or its ilk to get young female attorneys to let their guard's down that I find particularly shady. That's the thing. These folks are nice. They're just quietly throwing you under the proverbial bus.
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Highsmith
09/23/09

@Trulymadlyme: Yup. Been there. I always think it is a mistake though to assume people at work are your "friends". They're not.
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Edited by Highsmith at 09/23/09 1:46 PM Highsmith was starred Highsmith was unstarred

Maulleigh
09/23/09

@Highsmith: I'm involved with a meetup group where I'm the only women and the guys are DIIIIIIIIXXXX to one another.
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lalaland13
09/23/09

In reply to The Good Wife: Women Undermining Women
A few of the courtroom scenes made me go "Really?" But I do have to admit that when my mom called during the show, I asked if I could call her back. I was riveted. I'm curious to see how much her mother-in-law keeps up the "You must forgive him!" act. If I had to predict, I'd say Chris Noth gets out of jail, they try to work it out, it doesn't work, she starts things up with old buddy Will.
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Anna N.
09/23/09

@lalaland13: I feel like Will is definitely being positioned as the love interest, esp. since Alicia moons over him at the end of the first episode. He seems like the Good Guy to Chris Noth's Bad Guy.
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TheUptightMidwesterner
09/23/09

In reply to The Good Wife: Women Undermining Women
I work with a group of women who do nothing but try to undermine and sabotage each other. I always forget that it is not the norm in other workplaces.
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Edited by TheUptightMidwesterner at 09/23/09 12:22 PM

EdnasEdibles
09/23/09

@TheUptightMidwesterner: I have yet to work at a job where everyone didn't undermine everyone else regardless of age and gender. And I'm not working in a law firm either. Non-profit. I hate office life.
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Maritsa
09/23/09

@TheUptightMidwesterner: Thankfully it's not the norm in mine. The one female partner doesn't give a shit about other women, but doesn't undermine them. With the exception of one evil associate in my year, the women are great. It's the men that suck!
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Pippi Stardust
09/23/09

@TheUptightMidwesterner: That's why I thank my lucky stars every single day for my job. Sure, it's not in my field, but it's a tiny office and we all go out of our way to be respectful, kind, and supportive of one another. I feel like I'm in some sort of magical no-drama zone. It is amazing.
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emfish55
09/23/09

In reply to The Good Wife: Women Undermining Women
As someone who has worked for a woman who definitely undermines the success of the women beneath her, I'm annoyed by the stereotype but I'm also aware that it's not always false. Granted, it's not universal -- I'm sure there are plenty of great female mentors out there. I've just never been lucky enough to have one. And having a female boss who treats you like crap and acts competitive about creepy things like the clothes you wear and your private life... well, let's just say that my feminism has never been quite so tested. It's hard to be excited about women in power when the woman with power over you is a raging asshole, and actively discriminates against you because you're a woman.

But my feminism did survive intact, and I still believe women can make great bosses. But this particular portrayal doesn't offend me because there's too much about it that feels familiar.

(And men can be shitty, undermining bosses too.)
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Pantra
09/23/09

@emfish55: I've known shitty undermining bosses and great bosses of both genders. But - and I say this as a hardcore feminist - it did always seem that my bad female bosses took it to a more personal level. One was obsessed with my hair, another would check my wastebasket every day for candy wrappers so she could lecture me on what I ate.

That said, I work with someone (male) who is very competitive with the men under him and quite obviously tries to hold them down. Total insecure alpha male. Patterns happen.
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mrs_weasley
09/23/09

@Pantra: Wow, the candy wrapper thing... I can relate. My female boss thinks nothing of lecturing me about eating healthier. A male boss would never get away with that, because it could be construed as sexual harrassment. But because she can frame it as "girl-talk" she can try to control me. MAN, it pisses me off!!!
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willwriteforfood promoted this comment Edited by mrs_weasley at 09/23/09 12:52 PM mrs_weasley was starred mrs_weasley was unstarred

willwriteforfood
09/23/09

@mrs_weasley: Ugh, my worst female boss liked to critique my attire as soon as I walked in the door. She once told me she was ashamed of me because she didn't like the outfit I wore to visit a client. It was just a regular skirt and sweater combo, but she wanted me to spend hundreds of dollars to buy new suits. I never did it, and quit a few months later.
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bluebears
09/23/09

In reply to The Good Wife: Women Undermining Women
True story. A male friend (who is an attorney) once actually said to me, "It sucks though being a women in a law firm don't you think? The nice ones are incompetent and the ones that are good attorneys are backstabbing bitches." Jaw.Hits.Floor. It's such a tired stereotype that an otherwise progressive homosexual male was repeating it to me totally in earnest.
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yearofthewoman
09/23/09

@bluebears:

Yes it is. I have a wonderful female mentor now. What grates me with most other older women I work with is, is that they treat me like a child - but most of the men act like that too. It's more ageism, as opposed to BS girl on girl crime (hate that phrase). And the women are acting like that in part because they "care" - unlike the men.
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CurtCole
09/23/09

@bluebears: This progressive homosexual male apologizes for that progress homosexual male.
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bluebears
09/23/09

@CurtCole: heh. No need. But thank-you.

@theKP: I know! Well someone has to do the quilting...:)
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eadubbs
09/23/09

In reply to The Good Wife: Women Undermining Women
I actually really enjoyed this, and am interested to see where it goes.

I am also very excited that Dan from Sports Night is back on tv. I love him...
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labeled
09/23/09

@eadubbs: You just ripped open my long broken heart by mentioning Sports Night.

I'll give this a chance just for him.
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GeorgeFayne
09/23/09

@eadubbs: WHAT? Christine Baranski and Josh Charles in the same place? HOW DID I NOT WATCH THIS?
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jigglyball
09/23/09

@labeled: Hearted for the Sports Night love. I think it's getting a spin my DVD player soon.

Add me to the list of watchers tuning in for Dan.
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labeled
09/23/09

@jigglyball: Back because IT'S ON DVD??? I'm out. Got shopping to do.
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eadubbs
09/23/09

@labeled: I know, the Sports Night wound is always just barely healing.

I'm watching mostly for him. And my sick facination with betrayed politico wives.
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RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee)
09/23/09

@eadubbs: I admit, I squeed when I saw Dan and then proceeded to bounce up and down until the other half asked if we needed to pause the show so I could go pee. I was THAT HAPPY. There was also much squeeing for Christine Baranski.

The show was much better than I thought it would be.
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labeled
09/23/09

@eadubbs: Six Feet Under was like one long scab-picking session for me. (Also, any Felicity Huffman or William H. Macy sighting. It's been a long fight, indeed. Damn that show was greatness.)
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