From the National Coalition of Men: "Pop singer Rihanna recently made a widely publicized statement to Glamour Magazine that she wants to "shed light on the reality of domestic violence." The National Coalition For Men (NCFM) calls on Rihanna to discuss her own reported violence against Brown as well if she wants to shed light on the problem honestly.
According to court records and other sources, Rihanna struck Brown in the face "numerous times" before Brown assaulted her. NCFM purports although that would not justify his more severe assault, her violence should not be ignored, and if she does not "woman up" to it then her message will be the usual one-sided double standards that leave female perpetration covered up.
The saying, "There is no excuse for domestic violence," applies to both sexes. Female violence in relationships is not rare but is often hypocritically deemed acceptable or humorous, such as in the film, Sideways. It is part of the cycle of domestic violence, which cannot be stopped without addressing the problem honestly. Children are damaged just by witnessing domestic violence, regardless of its severity. A 32-nation study by the University of New Hampshire found women are as violent and as controlling as men in relationships worldwide #rihannainterview
Having been in toxic relationships, I can understand how hard it must be for Rihanna to express hate for someone she loves. Much like grief, she will continue an ever-evolving process. Today, she may still love him and wish him well. Tomorrow, she may pity him or even hate him. Eventually, she may even be indifferent to him. I don't think she needs to put this behind her as much as to move forward stronger and more aware.
I wish Rihanna well and I hope she's on her way to having a great life. #rihannainterview
I once heard her say something in an interview that always stuck with me. It was a couple of years ago and someone asked her if she and Chris were dating. At the time their relationship was on the DL so she tried to laugh it off and when the interviewer persisted she said that he was her best best friend and she loved him like a brother and they had only recently become involved. The reason she gave was that she needed him around because she was stuck in a business where she was with old people all the time (she was 19 then, he was 18) and he was the only person she had in her life with whom she felt like she was allowed to act her age, to be herself, to just be Robyn (her real name), instead of the persona "Rihanna." I remember the interview because the quote always struck me as sad and lonely and somewhat displaced. As someone who left home to come to the U.S as a teenager under far less demanding circumstances (college) it really resonated with me and a thought suddenly hit me that she was kind of like a teenage immigrant of sorts--someone who had left her small country to seek fame, was mostly alone here, surrounded by scant or no family, spending all her days with people she worked with or people who worked for her.
To be clear, I think Chris Brown is a piece of horseshit who has yet to take full responsibility and I loathe the fact that the public might use this interview to absolve him. Moreover, i've never been hit by a lover before so I am aware of the fact that I lack a visceral understanding about her experience in that sense. But what I have experienced before is being in love with someone I considered my best friend, and being in a relationship with them in a place and a time when I felt like I had no one else, no one else who "got" me, no one else who knew what I was going through, no one else who I could fundamentally relate to. That creates a dependency that makes you love a person without reason I think, because you not only find love in them, you create home in them. You make them your safe place.
It's a dependency that doesn't end when the relationship ends. Instead it creates a cognitive dissonance where after the breakup you have to make them a good person who did bad things as opposed to a bad person who you were tricked into believing was good or a bad person with good moments, because at the time when your relationship with them ends you feel like you have not only lost a lover you have lost something akin to a family member. And no one wants to admit that there are bad genes in their family. No one wants to admit that they loved someone so dark and so damaged. Because, their secret fear is, then it hints at or suggests some possible damage or deep sense of worthlessness in they themselves. It's a deeper thing, I think, than even the feeling of embarrassment she mentions. What she is dealing with a deep sense of shame that someone she consistently considered the foremost person in her life thought little enough of her overall, and so little of her in that moment, that he was willing to hurt her so badly.
When someone is your "best friend" in your mind--not just your boyfriend, or your lover but your best friend-- it's almost like you revert back to class one (first grade) honor codes. You find a way to take some responsibility for the person's actions because you think of yourselves as a unit. You proclaim your allegiance to them publicly. You don't pick someone else at the swings. Most importantly, you protect them from "bullies" or "enemies". You don't let anyone be mean to them. You've done it for so long that it's almost instinctive. Speaking badly about them publicly feels like tattle-taling. And no one wants to be a tattletale on their friend.
She is struggling so hard with that part of the loyalty code you can see the strain on her face. Add to it the other loyalty code: the historical tenet of "black people don't wash their dirty laundry in front of white people" thing, that black women don't rat out black men, that black women stand by their people and don't embarass the race in front of white folks, that no one likes snitches etc etc etc .... and you can see that the girl is doing the best she can. I am surprised she is even able to do this much considering the kind of emotional stuff she is up against. #rihannainterview
Black-out is not an excuse at all but I know EXACTLY what she is talking about. An ex-boyfriend attacked me when I was about her age: when he choked me I was looking right into his eyes and they were empty, dead, looked completely unlike I'd ever seen them look before. Then some light came back into his eyes and they started to return to normal and it was as if he suddenly realized what he was doing, standing there, choking me. And he let go of me and ran out of my apartment.
Even though he was my first love and it was very intense... I didn't love him after that and I didn't wish him well. I didn't with him ill either, I just wished him FAR AWAY FROM ME AND MY LIFE FOREVER. #rihannainterview
It really seems like she took the time to think things through and understand her emotions and what she was going through, which is great. So many times celebs like her who go through very public personal challenges seem to get deeper into trouble because they are surrounded by bad influences. It seems Rihanna's family/shrink/support system did something right. I really want her and her career to survive this. #rihannainterview
This part of the interview feels so different from yesterday's. Yesterday, the clip was talking about how embarrassed she was, how she needed to be a role model, how it was not her fault. In today's clip, she admits that it was both of them that provoked the fight, that he was her best friend, and that she was in love with him and still cares for him considerably.
Not to say that either is a bad clip -- I think yesterday's clip was important for people to see that she does realize the impact of her decisions and she has grown incredibly since then -- but today, I really felt where she was coming from for the first time. I can't even imagine how it would be to find your best friend, your boyfriend attacking you like that. I think she conducted herself very well in this interview and was very honest, and I'm glad that even though she still cares for him she isn't running back to him.
Even if he puts out some desperate songs that are clearly about wanting to be with her (ugh I can't stand listening to him!). #rihannainterview
After seeing clips from Rhianna's interview and clips from Chris Brown's, I can believe the immense difference between their dispositions. Rhianna just looks so sad and heavy, while Brown is so light and all of this doesn't really seem to bother him. It's freaky how little he seems to have been emotionally affected by this. #rihannainterview
The point I think she is making is that there are many shades of gray in relationships - most people aren't wholly good or wholly evil. The contradiction of loving someone who does horrible things is hard to wrap our (society's) collective brain around. How many times do people say "but he's so nice" or "I don't think he could ever do such and such?"
I just finished reading "The Gift of Fear" and he talks quite a bit about violence against women, the cycle of abuse, and how difficult some people find it to truly look underneath the facade that's presented to the public by violent people. #rihannainterview
What I'm most struck by in this interview is her honesty. She could have very easily used some flack-packaged outright condemnation and instead chose a more nuanced- and truthful- path. It's rare to see someone speak this publicly and thoughtfully about such a loaded, complex, and intensely private pain. #rihannainterview
@4000Sonnets: I definitely felt like she was speaking from the heart here. I really found both clips hard to watch because her emotions seem really close to the surface and her words seem raw and unscripted. It must have taken a lot of guts for her to do these interviews, knowing that people were going to pick apart whatever she said -- and I do think she deserves props for speaking her mind. #rihannainterview
I don't think we should be judging her for the way she is dealing with the fall out. I think she is extremely courageous to discuss this very emotional topic so openly. She's expressing how she truly feels and how hundreds of other women feel after they have been abused. It would be one thing if she went back to him after saying "he blacked out" while beating her, but she hasn't. She's steadfast in her resolve and I applaud her. I am really proud of her, and truth be told, I am now a huge fan of hers. #rihannainterview
@Chamalla,barren crone: Same here. I was in an abusive relationship for five years. It started out emotional and mental, and turned physical after a while. And I did love him, very much. He loved me as well, in the capacity that he was able to.
Just because he and I were once in love doesn't mean he wasn't any less abusive or I wasn't any less a victim. It doesn't downplay what I went through, or color over what he did. I still left him, he still suffered consequences, and it was still abuse. Nevertheless, love was there at one time.
I think women who have been through horrible abuse have enough to deal with emotionally without having to worry about nitpickers trying to tell them that they didn't love so and so, they couldn't have, that using the word 'love' glorifies the experience, etc. These are real people with real feelings, and as much as people might want to marginalize and pigeonhole, it is possible to love someone who hurts you. #rihannainterview
Rhianna's only job is to heal. She has no responsibility to be a poster girl for domestic abuse, and there is no required script for violence survivors she needs to follow. It's certainly not our place to judge her for what she thinks or feels - none of us are in her skin. Maybe forgiving him is important to her healing, maybe it's the only way she can move on. Knowing how much crap is likely to be written about her elsewhere on the internet today, I'm more than willing to cut her some slack. #rihannainterview
@Chamalla,barren crone: I agree with you, wholeheartedly. I very much admire her. But you're right, she doesn't owe me, or you, or anyone anything. She's just a very young woman living out something that happens to so many, but having to do it in front of us all. #rihannainterview
I think the feelings she describes are incredibly common for victims of abuse, and explain why a lot of women stay with their abusers for so long. It is sad, however, that she appears to still blame herself in some way for what happened, repeatedly saying how she wouldn't let it drop about the text message. I hope someday she can come to a place where she realizes his violence was in no way her fault, and that mere words, no matter how angry or aggravating, should never justify that kind of violence. #rihannainterview
There is something about his facial expressions that has reminded me from the start of my ex boyfriend - something smug, insincere and partially disconnected from reality. Not surprisinginly, my ex turned out to be verbally and emotionally abusive, did some things that left me feeling very violated physically, and was generally an asshat who exhibited controlling, violent behavior (he never hit me, but he hit plenty of other people and things, drove too fast to scare me, and generally was physically intimidating).
I also completely identify with her feeling that it was "embarrassing" to admit she loved him. I can say from experience that it TOTALLY DOES NOT HELP to have people asking you "What were you doing with him? I thought you were smarter than that. Why didn't you leave when you saw red flags?". Possibly well-intentioned questions like that are why victims clam up, don't talk to anyone about what is happening in their relationships, and feel shame later.
It's my belief that when Rhianna refuses to criticize him too much, it's less about him and more about her need to feel that he had some redeeming qualities - that there was some reason she was with him in the first place. It's about needing to feel that she still has good judgment, and isn't a total fool - or maybe that's just me, projecting how I felt.
@Flackette Goes Retro: So -- your ex-boyfriend sounds like my ex-boyfriend, and everything you say makes sense, and I'm so happy we're both out the other side and can recognize it -- high five! #rihannainterview
When the red flags start popping up, there always seems to be one "friend" around who will make excuses for them. "Maybe he was just stressed from work", "Maybe you picked the wrong time to ask him about [X]", "Do you really want to break up over that one little incident?" And so on. Been there.
The "support" of "friends" (and even family) may not be a factor in Rihanna's case, but I'll bet it's a factor in lots of them. #rihannainterview
@Flackette Goes Retro: "It's about needing to feel that she still has good judgment, and isn't a total fool" Yes. Yes 1000 times.
First - congratulations on getting out. I know how hard it is.
I still deal with this, and a series of "friends" who act like armchair quarterbacks, feeling completely justified in telling me what I SHOULD have felt or what I SHOULD have done - rebound guy even told me I was personally responsible for any woman my ex abused in the future. (Rebound guy bounced right off the backboard and outta my life soon after. )
We survived. We healed. We found a way to feel safe in our own skin again and still trust other people. For that I give you, and myself, a lot of credit. #rihannainterview
@Chamalla,barren crone: Yes -- my family played armchair quarterback for a long time -- they live at a distance and only saw my ex and I on holidays when he was on his best behavior -- my father's reaction to the end of that relationship was that I had failed to keep a man. That was devastating to me, and I think one of the reasons it took me so long to actually get out of the relationship, even though I knew in my heart it was hurting me, was that I knew my father wouldn't understand. #rihannainterview
@cellocurve: I'm so sorry that happened to you, and that the people you loved let you down. I'm glad you found the strength to leave, and that you're safe now. *survivor high five* #rihannainterview
How sad is it that I am relieved to see that the community is holding rallies to support her and classmates are wearing armbands, and that they are actually talking about violence against women and safety measures and social attitudes? Because honestly, I fully expected to hear more than I have about how she must have known what she was getting into when she got drunk with her "friend." I fully expected to see her shamed and blamed, as so often happens to the victims of sexual assault.
Instead, the community is supporting her. Is is because the act was so egregious and violent that only the most demented, soulless misogynist could find a way to blame her for it? Is it because most of the dudes doing the raping and beating are apparently not white? I hope not, but I worry those are the main reasons we are seeing such support for her rather than a chorus of victim-blaming. #richmondgangrape
11/06/09
According to court records and other sources, Rihanna struck Brown in the face "numerous times" before Brown assaulted her. NCFM purports although that would not justify his more severe assault, her violence should not be ignored, and if she does not "woman up" to it then her message will be the usual one-sided double standards that leave female perpetration covered up.
The saying, "There is no excuse for domestic violence," applies to both sexes. Female violence in relationships is not rare but is often hypocritically deemed acceptable or humorous, such as in the film, Sideways. It is part of the cycle of domestic violence, which cannot be stopped without addressing the problem honestly. Children are damaged just by witnessing domestic violence, regardless of its severity. A 32-nation study by the University of New Hampshire found women are as violent and as controlling as men in relationships worldwide #rihannainterview
11/06/09
I wish Rihanna well and I hope she's on her way to having a great life. #rihannainterview
11/06/09
To be clear, I think Chris Brown is a piece of horseshit who has yet to take full responsibility and I loathe the fact that the public might use this interview to absolve him. Moreover, i've never been hit by a lover before so I am aware of the fact that I lack a visceral understanding about her experience in that sense. But what I have experienced before is being in love with someone I considered my best friend, and being in a relationship with them in a place and a time when I felt like I had no one else, no one else who "got" me, no one else who knew what I was going through, no one else who I could fundamentally relate to. That creates a dependency that makes you love a person without reason I think, because you not only find love in them, you create home in them. You make them your safe place.
It's a dependency that doesn't end when the relationship ends. Instead it creates a cognitive dissonance where after the breakup you have to make them a good person who did bad things as opposed to a bad person who you were tricked into believing was good or a bad person with good moments, because at the time when your relationship with them ends you feel like you have not only lost a lover you have lost something akin to a family member. And no one wants to admit that there are bad genes in their family. No one wants to admit that they loved someone so dark and so damaged. Because, their secret fear is, then it hints at or suggests some possible damage or deep sense of worthlessness in they themselves. It's a deeper thing, I think, than even the feeling of embarrassment she mentions. What she is dealing with a deep sense of shame that someone she consistently considered the foremost person in her life thought little enough of her overall, and so little of her in that moment, that he was willing to hurt her so badly.
When someone is your "best friend" in your mind--not just your boyfriend, or your lover but your best friend-- it's almost like you revert back to class one (first grade) honor codes. You find a way to take some responsibility for the person's actions because you think of yourselves as a unit. You proclaim your allegiance to them publicly. You don't pick someone else at the swings. Most importantly, you protect them from "bullies" or "enemies". You don't let anyone be mean to them. You've done it for so long that it's almost instinctive. Speaking badly about them publicly feels like tattle-taling. And no one wants to be a tattletale on their friend.
She is struggling so hard with that part of the loyalty code you can see the strain on her face. Add to it the other loyalty code: the historical tenet of "black people don't wash their dirty laundry in front of white people" thing, that black women don't rat out black men, that black women stand by their people and don't embarass the race in front of white folks, that no one likes snitches etc etc etc .... and you can see that the girl is doing the best she can. I am surprised she is even able to do this much considering the kind of emotional stuff she is up against. #rihannainterview
11/07/09
11/06/09
Even though he was my first love and it was very intense... I didn't love him after that and I didn't wish him well. I didn't with him ill either, I just wished him FAR AWAY FROM ME AND MY LIFE FOREVER. #rihannainterview
11/06/09
11/06/09
Not to say that either is a bad clip -- I think yesterday's clip was important for people to see that she does realize the impact of her decisions and she has grown incredibly since then -- but today, I really felt where she was coming from for the first time. I can't even imagine how it would be to find your best friend, your boyfriend attacking you like that. I think she conducted herself very well in this interview and was very honest, and I'm glad that even though she still cares for him she isn't running back to him.
Even if he puts out some desperate songs that are clearly about wanting to be with her (ugh I can't stand listening to him!). #rihannainterview
11/06/09
11/06/09
I just finished reading "The Gift of Fear" and he talks quite a bit about violence against women, the cycle of abuse, and how difficult some people find it to truly look underneath the facade that's presented to the public by violent people. #rihannainterview
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/06/09
Just because he and I were once in love doesn't mean he wasn't any less abusive or I wasn't any less a victim. It doesn't downplay what I went through, or color over what he did. I still left him, he still suffered consequences, and it was still abuse. Nevertheless, love was there at one time.
I think women who have been through horrible abuse have enough to deal with emotionally without having to worry about nitpickers trying to tell them that they didn't love so and so, they couldn't have, that using the word 'love' glorifies the experience, etc. These are real people with real feelings, and as much as people might want to marginalize and pigeonhole, it is possible to love someone who hurts you. #rihannainterview
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/06/09
I also completely identify with her feeling that it was "embarrassing" to admit she loved him. I can say from experience that it TOTALLY DOES NOT HELP to have people asking you "What were you doing with him? I thought you were smarter than that. Why didn't you leave when you saw red flags?". Possibly well-intentioned questions like that are why victims clam up, don't talk to anyone about what is happening in their relationships, and feel shame later.
It's my belief that when Rhianna refuses to criticize him too much, it's less about him and more about her need to feel that he had some redeeming qualities - that there was some reason she was with him in the first place. It's about needing to feel that she still has good judgment, and isn't a total fool - or maybe that's just me, projecting how I felt.
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/06/09
When the red flags start popping up, there always seems to be one "friend" around who will make excuses for them. "Maybe he was just stressed from work", "Maybe you picked the wrong time to ask him about [X]", "Do you really want to break up over that one little incident?" And so on. Been there.
The "support" of "friends" (and even family) may not be a factor in Rihanna's case, but I'll bet it's a factor in lots of them. #rihannainterview
11/06/09
First - congratulations on getting out. I know how hard it is.
I still deal with this, and a series of "friends" who act like armchair quarterbacks, feeling completely justified in telling me what I SHOULD have felt or what I SHOULD have done - rebound guy even told me I was personally responsible for any woman my ex abused in the future. (Rebound guy bounced right off the backboard and outta my life soon after. )
We survived. We healed. We found a way to feel safe in our own skin again and still trust other people. For that I give you, and myself, a lot of credit. #rihannainterview
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/04/09
Instead, the community is supporting her. Is is because the act was so egregious and violent that only the most demented, soulless misogynist could find a way to blame her for it? Is it because most of the dudes doing the raping and beating are apparently not white? I hope not, but I worry those are the main reasons we are seeing such support for her rather than a chorus of victim-blaming. #richmondgangrape