@NellMood: RIGHT! If they would just let me EXPLAIN that to them in PERSON, I wouldn't have to send them the notes written in my blood (how ELSE was I supposed to get across how IMPORTANT their friendship was to me... to US?)
When I was four, my grandmother told me that I looked like a little princess, and I replied (trying to return the complement) that she looked like an older queen. She got hysterical.
@Ms Meghan: I agree... same for men. The brother of a good friend of mine when talking to his brother about their Mum and Dad calls them mummy and daddy, it's embarassing.
@sshacker: In Latin American countries too, but I feel like that's more akin to saying Mom and Dad, because it's either that or the formal Mother and Father.
@LaComtesse: I say mummy and daddy too. Not exclusively; I mean, I call them mum and dad as well. But 'mummy' is really good to say when you're whining. :)
@NellMood: Exactly what I was going to say. My mom's from Tennessee and she and her sisters (in their 50s and 60s) call their parents (in their 90s) Mother (or Momma) and Daddy. It's just part of the culture.
@Ms Meghan: Best not visit below the Mason-Dixon, honey, or you'll never keep a meal down.
@girlnamedblue: I'm in Latin America, and yes "mami" y "papi" are common but when talking to your parents. Not when talking about your parents. That's the crucial difference.
@greeneyedfem: Yeah, I rarely hear Mommy, but Mama and Mother are pretty common. Mom and Dad are definitely becoming more common among people in my generation, at least in the Southern city where I grew up, but my older relatives say Daddy and Mother.
@rah29: Heh. True. I just use both as a matter of course--it's what I've always called them! (And, like you, not exclusively. Though, as my mom points out, I'm the only one who still does. Each of my siblings calls her something different "Mommy," "Ma," "Mama," and "Mom.")
@NellMood: My mom will go to her grave calling my grandparents Mother and Daddy. And she's definitely a farmer's daughter/steel magnolia -- no one could mistake her for baby-talking.
I call my parents Mom and Dad, but I'd like it if my kids called me Momma. I've been out of the South too long!
@greeneyedfem: That's been my experience with my mother in law from GA and I don't have a problem with it if she's talking to them. But, I will say that even my husband (who was born and raised in GA too) finds it creepy that she refers to them as "momma" or "daddy" in the 3rd person. It would seem more appropriate for her to refer to them as they relate to the person she's talking to.
@taoofpao: You mean she should call them "Momma" and "Daddy" when talking to them and call them "Mom" and "Dad" when talking about them to everyone else? In my experience, that's not how our brains work. Someone's name is their name, whether it's given or a nickname or a title or whatever.
@greeneyedfem: Maybe I'm wrong, but most people insert a "my" in front of whatever name they use for the person they're referring to (i.e. "my mother" or "my boyfriend"). My mother in law refers to them as just "momma" or "daddy" as though the person she's speaking to also shares that parent (but, she's an only child, so that's never the case).
The only time I ever refer to my parents as just "dad/papi" or "mom/mami" is when I'm in conversation with my 3 siblings or the other parent. Even if I were to refer to my dad as "papi" in regular conversation with others, I would still say "my papi." It would seem discourteous not to.
@greeneyedfem: Your brain doesn't work that way? Mine does, otherwise, I'd be talking to other people about my husband, saying "Pookie Snuggie Penis Pie suggested yesterday that I start carrying pepper spray"
@taoofpao: I think I see what you mean. But isn't it just the difference between using "my dad" (a noun) and "Dad" (proper name)? They're pretty interchangeable. Sometimes I use "my sister" and sometimes I use her proper name, depending on who I'm talking to. My mom might use "my father" when talking to someone she isn't that close to, but when she's with the family or close friends, she'll use her own names for my grandparents, because we don't need an identifier ("That was Mother and Daddy on the phone.").
@Hana Maru: Of course I have pet names for my partner that I don't use when talking about him to other people. I wasn't talking about pet names, but about name-names. What we call our parents are equivalent to their names in our brains, so why would we use one name to family and another name to non-family?
[Although as I'm typing that, I realize that in some cultures (my partner's, for one) people do have family names apart from their given names. :)]
I just meant that in my mom's brain, her father is "Daddy." Why would she switch to "Dad" when talking to other people? It seems like wasted mental energy.
Am I the only one who doesn't find the Matt Damon anecdote cute or charming? Miss Damon needs a lesson in manners.
And I thought Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears are roughly the same age and have been tabloid fodder for approximately the same length of time. I guess my troubled starlet chronology is off.
Fatty Matty, reminds me of little kids whose social filters haven't developed yet and walk around spouting frank observations. I remember my niece once walking up to a relative and proclaiming loudly 'you're fat".
@Eric Northman is mine: In my first year of teaching, I sang "Six Little Ducks" with a kindergarten group, and that is when I learned that a 5-year-old, standing, pointing at me and saying, "You're the FAT DUCK!" is not an insult, but rather an observation, and one he was quite proud of.
@LadySoprano is a Fat-Fighting Superwoman: I sang the Six Little Ducks song when I was a child and my dad asked me "Did you make that all up by yourself?" Naturally I took credit and my dad thought I was some sort of lyrical genius for at least an hour before my mum burst the bubble.
@Eric Northman is mine: When I was three I told my grandmother that she was shaped like a big jelly doughnut. From a little kid, that's a well-intentioned compliment.
@Eric Northman is mine: My poor brother-in-law tends to gain sympathy weight when my sister is pregnant (which is ironic, because my sister is one of those tall thin gorgeous women who just looks like a model with a beach ball when she's pregnant). Anyway, during their third pregnancy their 4 and a half year old daughter regularly referred to her father's stomach as his "food baby."
@Eric Northman is mine: When I was 6, I'll never forget, a neighborhood 3 y.o. marched up to my sister and I and proclaimed to me "SHE"S the pretty one, YOU'RE the ugly one!" I died.
@Eric Northman is mine: When my mom was pregnant with my younger brother (I was 4), I told her that her butt had gotten "real big". For some reason I still remember that just because of her surprised reaction.
@Hana Maru: my aunt has a similar story about one of my cousins - "You'd look just like my Barbie if you didn't have those things all over your face." She was referring to my then teenage aunt's bad case of acne.
I prefer Hilary Mantel to Dame Judi in today's Guardian:
'She is appalled by those who have forgotten what her generation, and her mother's generation, encountered. "very annoyingly, you get women nowadays who are educated and have got on in their professions, saying, 'Oh, but I'm not a feminist.'" Anger suffuses her face, an intensity almost indecent. "The only reason they can say that is that they're standing on the shoulders of their mothers, who fought these battles, I think for a woman to say 'I'm not a feminist' is [like] a lamb joining the slaughterer's guild. It's just empty-headed and stupid."
Perhaps they're trying to distance themselves from a particular caricature of feminism?
"Yeah. Well, they need to inform themselves. Women now take a great deal for granted, but of course the fact is that only a part of the feminist agenda has ever been worked through."'
NPH, I love you, but you should know that foppish Brits are not dead. You just need to know where to find them. I present: [www.time.com]
(note--I'm friends with the awesome couple in photo #9).
@LaComtesse: True- I guess I could chat with my grandmother and hear the same thing. But it does sound like Judi Dench is/was pretty politically active, so I found her quote surprising.
Um, Dame Judi, I hate to go all Jeff Foxworthy on you, but if you believe in women having a say - you just may be a feminist.
If you think women who do the same job as men should get the same pay - you just may be a feminist.
If you think women should have the same opportunities for personal and professional advancement as men, if you think rape and violence against women is wrong and should be dealt with harshly by law enforcement, if you want affordable child care and profamily work places....
@GirlFailer: I don't know, with all the public debate about what is or isn't a feminist, I don't know what the hell a feminist is either, at this point I find the term completely devoid of meaning. I'm just a person that wants to be able to do the same thing as all other people and be compensated equally...if you need to call that something, fine...
@erinna: I agree, and if she doesn't want to ID as feminist, I don't see how that's necessarily bad. You don't have to claim the word to walk the walk.
@erinna: Oh, I don't think it's "bad" if she doesn't want to identify herself as a feminist, but I guess I always believed that feminism was simply what you said.. equal compensation, equal treatment as a human being. I see what you're saying though. It is just a label in her mind, I suppose.
@Penny: you can call yourself whatever you want, but, I am getting a little sick of people treating feminism like it's a horrible thing. Why do people have to deny they are feminist - but then in the same breath proclaim their belief in the basic principles of feminism. It denigrates the name and concept of feminism by implying that 'oh, I'm not one of those unshaven butchy women who hate men, but I believe in everything they are fighting for'.
@boobookitteh: I don't know. That women should just "have a say" sounds not-so-feminist to me actually. That reads like, sure, women should get to voice their opinions and be heard (like children), but of course others make the ultimate decision.
@boobookitteh: See, now, I was going to say it's chicken shit to disavow the feminist label while believing women should be given equal rights in this world. But you said it way better.
@boobookitteh: you can call yourself whatever you want, but, I am getting a little sick of people treating feminism like it's a horrible thing. Why do people have to deny they are feminist - but then in the same breath proclaim their belief in the basic principles of feminism
Precisely! My question is: what is the huge crime of Feminism? If you think about religion many people see themselves as Christians or whatever denomination and we don't jump into conclusions about the horrible crimes commited in the name of religion.
I know the comparison is not quite fair, but it's odd, don't you think? For so many women not to want to be associated with the word.
@Ailatan: I think it's the fact that the counter rhetoric has been really effective. Ie. that feminist "really" means you think women are better than men, not equal. And that it's some kind of shrill, non-issue because women are already equal in the places in the world that matter (ie. anywhere western). It's an attitude and misinformation problem I see a lot.
I'm hoping Dam Judi either misunderstood the question...or meant something different in context.
Unfortunately, though, a lot of people who have been successful who are part of a typically marginalized group, often don't see it as much of a concern because their personal experience doesn't have much to do with it. I can't think she didn't experience sexism, ever, in her career, though.
@tiredfairy: But without solidarity we wouldn't be here in the first place. And even in Western countries there is still a long way to go.
I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it's important to hammer the message that Feminism is still important and young women (especially) should be taught the value of what other women in previous generations have fought so hard for.
@boobookitteh: I have to tell you personally as a black woman, I have no interest in labeling myself a feminist. The more I learn about the early 'feminists', the less interested I am in identifying with them. They were not particularly interested in identifying with people that looked like me anyway.
Doesn't make me any less interested or involved in women's issues around the world. I'll venture a guess that I probably do more than most people that wear the label on their foreheads.
@Ailatan: Oh, absolutely. I agree completely. It's just that...you, me, and people on this site get that because we make sure we're aware of the issues still going on. Lots of other people don't. Which is unfortunate. And even with feminism, a lot of people believe that their personal experience with something is THE experience with it.
@tiredfairy: I think the problem is Feminism is not systematically taught or explained, we have problems coming to terms with what Feminism actually is. The misrepresentation, as you said, has won. It's quite annoying.
@sshacker: That's fair. Also, unfortunately, U.S. feminism has also been extremely white-centric for a long time. Women of color have been asked, repeatedly, to slide their concerns to the side, as though experiences with sexism are the same for every woman regardless of color...and it's simply not true. And it's shameful, since modern feminism has taken on the mantle of equality for not just gender, but race, class, and sexual orientation. It just deals with gender predominately.
I find it exceedingly unfortunate that modern feminism has alienated woc's so much, considering how little we resemble early feminists. Our concerns are so different today, that the philosophy's goals have shifted. But sometimes it's very clear it hasn't shifted enough. You can't claim you want equality for all women if you prioritize one group of women's concerns based on skin color. White privilege is an insidious mess.
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What does it matter? He's an asshole any way you look at it.
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We could all be so happy... if only the courts would allow me within 500 feet of them...
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What are you, 5?
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Enlighten yourself before you puke or at the very least always remember your experiences are not universal.
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@Ms Meghan: Best not visit below the Mason-Dixon, honey, or you'll never keep a meal down.
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I call my parents Mom and Dad, but I'd like it if my kids called me Momma. I've been out of the South too long!
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The only time I ever refer to my parents as just "dad/papi" or "mom/mami" is when I'm in conversation with my 3 siblings or the other parent. Even if I were to refer to my dad as "papi" in regular conversation with others, I would still say "my papi." It would seem discourteous not to.
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@Hana Maru: Of course I have pet names for my partner that I don't use when talking about him to other people. I wasn't talking about pet names, but about name-names. What we call our parents are equivalent to their names in our brains, so why would we use one name to family and another name to non-family?
[Although as I'm typing that, I realize that in some cultures (my partner's, for one) people do have family names apart from their given names. :)]
I just meant that in my mom's brain, her father is "Daddy." Why would she switch to "Dad" when talking to other people? It seems like wasted mental energy.
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And I thought Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears are roughly the same age and have been tabloid fodder for approximately the same length of time. I guess my troubled starlet chronology is off.
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Now, if an 8th grader said that to me...
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'She is appalled by those who have forgotten what her generation, and her mother's generation, encountered. "very annoyingly, you get women nowadays who are educated and have got on in their professions, saying, 'Oh, but I'm not a feminist.'" Anger suffuses her face, an intensity almost indecent. "The only reason they can say that is that they're standing on the shoulders of their mothers, who fought these battles, I think for a woman to say 'I'm not a feminist' is [like] a lamb joining the slaughterer's guild. It's just empty-headed and stupid."
Perhaps they're trying to distance themselves from a particular caricature of feminism?
"Yeah. Well, they need to inform themselves. Women now take a great deal for granted, but of course the fact is that only a part of the feminist agenda has ever been worked through."'
[www.guardian.co.uk]
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(note--I'm friends with the awesome couple in photo #9).
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If you think women who do the same job as men should get the same pay - you just may be a feminist.
If you think women should have the same opportunities for personal and professional advancement as men, if you think rape and violence against women is wrong and should be dealt with harshly by law enforcement, if you want affordable child care and profamily work places....
Well, dang it, y'all are feminists!
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rant over.
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Judi Dench is not a feminist!
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Precisely! My question is: what is the huge crime of Feminism? If you think about religion many people see themselves as Christians or whatever denomination and we don't jump into conclusions about the horrible crimes commited in the name of religion.
I know the comparison is not quite fair, but it's odd, don't you think? For so many women not to want to be associated with the word.
What is it with Feminism?
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I'm hoping Dam Judi either misunderstood the question...or meant something different in context.
Unfortunately, though, a lot of people who have been successful who are part of a typically marginalized group, often don't see it as much of a concern because their personal experience doesn't have much to do with it. I can't think she didn't experience sexism, ever, in her career, though.
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I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it's important to hammer the message that Feminism is still important and young women (especially) should be taught the value of what other women in previous generations have fought so hard for.
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Doesn't make me any less interested or involved in women's issues around the world. I'll venture a guess that I probably do more than most people that wear the label on their foreheads.
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I find it exceedingly unfortunate that modern feminism has alienated woc's so much, considering how little we resemble early feminists. Our concerns are so different today, that the philosophy's goals have shifted. But sometimes it's very clear it hasn't shifted enough. You can't claim you want equality for all women if you prioritize one group of women's concerns based on skin color. White privilege is an insidious mess.
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