My understanding is that some airlines (or at least Alaska?) have the policy that extremely large people who would like use of two seats only have to actively purchase the second ticket if the flight is completely full--that is, if his/her taking up two seats (voluntarily, usually; the only time I've seen this happen, the man in question requested a second seat) means someone else cannot pay the airline money to fly with them. I think that's a good policy, though I'm not sure where they stand regarding gate agents/flight attendants recommending a second seat to people.
When I lived abroad I remember thinking all those airlines (EasyJet, Go, RyanAir) were so awesomely cheap and took advantage to go anywhere and everywhere I could. Now I'd opt for a train. It's a pain, not to mention not cost-effective, getting out to the non-Heathrow airports anyhow, unless that has changed.
Of all the things that are offensive to me while flying, a fat person sitting next to me doesn't even cross my mind. A creeper? A loud drunk? A talker? A kid? A baby? A jerk kid behind me kicking my seat? A jerk in front of me putting their seat back?
I'd rather be on a plane FULL of fat people than deal with any of that. Making fat people pay more is BS.
@greengrey: I've actually never ended up by a fat person, or a kid. Drunks I can mostly handle, talkers I just want to punch.
I don't know that I am entirely against having big people pay more, but it just seems odd, like....where is the line that says someone is too fat?
My boyfriend was recently on a SW flight for work and was sitting next to a heavyset man. An attendant came over and asked the man if he could put his seat arm rest down (it was in the up position) and the guy got all huffy and said "of course I can" and shoved it into position. He was obviously not comfortable so when the attendant left my BF said, "you can put your arm rest back up if you'd like" and the dude ignored him. BF said he felt really awkward.
It makes sense to me that if you are going to take two seats, you should pay. If I needed two seats to be comfortable I assume I would be okay paying extra. As long as seats are made to accommodate people of average size, which I don't know that they do at the moment...
@greengrey: I think the seat-kickers should have to pay extra. As should the people who see me engrossed in a book and ask loudly "WHATCHA READING?" and then start a conversation about how they like talking better than reading.
@Yahtzii: I once puked, in my seat (long story) on a flight and the guy next to me flapped his gums the ENTIRE FLIGHT. Luckily, it was a short one. I hate yappy people. Unless you are totally awesome or want to give me your drink tickets, don't talk to me.
@Yahtzii: Ughughugh. Bringing headphones help. Or not making eye contact and refusing to even acknowledge that they spoke sends a solid message.
I don't think Flying Ass Holes should have to pay more for their seat, but they should fund the drinks of those around them to make it more tolerable.
@greengrey: OMG, yes, if you're going for an annoyance surcharge - poorly controlled children top the list.
I've sat next to larger people who were in my space and that's uncomfortable, but I've also gotton 'the look' from a skinny seatmate (and I was totally on my own seat, bitch - you can't catch fat) so I definitely sympathize with folks being asked to pay twice. Who's to say what's too fat - should it be up to the seat mate? And I kind of sympathize with people larger than myself- all the people who were 'in my space' looked kind of mortified and apologetic.
And of course I recently took a bus ride with a skinny girl next to me and she curled up in a ball, with her butt on my seat - so skinnies can take up space too! And she was not apologetic.
@greengrey: Ha, I had a Spanish host mother who used this argument with the airlines when I was flying back to the US with overweight bags... and it worked!
@Yahtzii: Don't even get me started with the gassies. Jesus, on my last flight back from Vegas, someone in my vicinity was letting IT RIP and oh god rotten eggs.
@greengrey: I am for charging those people who let their kids run rampant up and down the plane. $50 per infraction, $75 if the kid dumps crap on one of the passengers, $100 if the parents smile and look like idiots while their kid gallivants around.
I was once on a flight with the most appallingly behaved child on the planet. By the end of it, I wanted to push the kid and his parents out the emergency exit without that nifty slide inflating.
@Penny: I do have a serious problem if I am on a long haul flight and the person sitting next to me is also occupying part of my very limited space as well. It sounds to me like a recipe for deep vein thrombosis if I am so cramped I cannot move my limbs adequately. Being tall I have a problem with leg room and so would be prepared to pay extra to have additional space to stretch my legs, as I have circulatory problems as it is.
@newjewrevue: Really? That seems pretty uncalled-for. I mean, I hate it when the person in front of me reclines, but the seat DOES recline, so, you know...it's their perogative. Perhaps not the most sensitive behavior in the world, but still acceptable, in my book.
I'm confused as to how a toddler would be pinned in her seat by something that doesn't pin me in my seat. Seat kicking, on the other hand, is never, ever ok. EVER. (Says the girl whose perfectly straight, un-reclined seat was kicked for three hours on a recent flight.)
@newjewrevue: I'm talking about parents who don't make it a habit to restrain their kids or teach them basic things like how the plane is not a playground.
You also could have just asked the woman if she wouldn't mind putting the seat up a bit, so your daughter could move around.
@boobookitteh: and I was totally on my own seat, bitch - you can't catch fat
damn straight.
plus, the people who curl up into a ball means their feet are on their own seat. um, no. please keep your feet off of the seat because they never clean the seats enough as it is.
@newjewrevue: Eh? I hate it when people recline too (it really makes more of a difference to the reclined-upon than the recliner) but how is letting your kid kick the seat an appropriate response?
Its good it turned out to be a hoax, what a horrible thing to say.
I do think though that there should be a size limit (not a weight limit because weight does not always equal a certain amount of space) per seat..because if the passanger is too big for the seat it becomes uncomfortable and unsafe for not only they themself but also for the passanger/s next to them. Though how this size limit would work, I have no idea. You cant go by jean size since height and muscle mass makes a difference. I guess you could say that if someone sits down and obviously the seat isnt large enough to accomodate them, then they should pay for another one as well. After all, the airlines cannot keep expanding seat sizes all the time..But they do need to make sure that the seats available are ones that accomodate a wide range of sizes, including larger ones.
@Dorotea: Why can't they keep expanding their seat sizes if the population changes? And am I wrong in thinking seat sizes, or at least the spaces between the seats, has been reduced over the years to cram ever more passengers onto the planes?
Airlines should be regulated properly. They should have to charge what it costs to fly people (way more than we currently pay) and they should have to treat passengers with dignity.
Yeah, so we couldn't afford to fly as often - but we are zipping around the planet at unsustainable rates right now.
@Cellotape: It's not cost effective for the airline to make their seats bigger. They're a business, and a floundering one at that. If anything, they'll make seats smaller so that more and more people need to buy extra space in an effort to siphon more money from passengers.
@Cellotape: I think with the population changing issue, it is not that the average traveler is really getting that much larger (*most* people flying can fit into seats, even if they aren't super comfortable) it is that you are seeing more and more people in the upper levels of obese who would require substantially more space than one seat. Still, I don't think that is SO common that it would make financial sense to lose 50% of your seats because all seats should be able to accomodate someone who weighs 600 lbs.
I think a reasonable compromise for the comfort of everyone, would be to say that if you are really have difficulties sitting in one seat, presumably also bothering the person next to you, you should be offered the seat next to you, at a heavily, heavily discounted rate (like say, 20% of the ticket price) This could be an option available to you when booking, and you wouldn't have to go through an ass-judging at the gate (unless a size 2 thought they would get the second seat to lie down, abusing the system).
I don't see the airline industry changing that much. At the end of the day people want cheap and available flights and are willing to put up with a certain amount of discomfort, within reason. I only see increased discrimination against overweight passengers if itn is decided that everyone's fares are going to jump up for the comfort of the minority.
I simply think the seats should be large enough to accomodate obese people, but morbidly obese, no. Most people would not have to "change the ass" as you say :P But it is true that nowadays even a slim person can feel cramped in the seats that some airlines provide.
@Dorotea: After my husband was put on a plane next to not one but two people significantly larger than their seat, my opinion on this changed. My husband weighs 125 pounds wet, which does not make him morally superior or a better person. But, the couple in his row were both several inches over the size of the seat, which led to my husband having barely 1/2 his seat if he felt like getting intimate with a stranger. (The larger of the pair was big enough that her stomach touched the seat in front of her when she was sitting down.)
My husband paid a lot of money for a whole seat.
BUT, the problem is how to communicate this issue. Obviously calling someone fat is out of the question. Maybe "I paid for a whole seat, not 1/2 of one." On the one hand, it's not like this couple didn't know that they were taking up way too much space. On the other hand, if it had been me (I weigh significantly more than my husband and have an ample, but seat-fitting, tush), I would have flat-out not been able to fit.
I have thought about this for 2 years and I still don't know what we should have done.
I agree, it seems seats are either getting smaller or the spaces in between more cramped. They can only expand their seats so long. At some point, they end up losing business because if they make seats large enough to accomodate morbidly obese people, a thin person sitting in one of those seats would waste space that could fit another person (i.e. another seat, which equals more money).
@LadybirdRamone: My mom was in a situation like that once, but the man next to her was extremely tall and broad-shouldered, not obese. The flight attendant FAWNED over him, apologizing for his inconvenience blah blah, while my mom was scrunched over in her seat, avoiding his enormous arms and shoulders.
She wrote to the airline that since she'd only gotten to use 2/3 of her seat, she thought she was entitled to a 1/3 refund. They sent her a voucher. So sometimes it works!
If it were true it wouldn't surprise me. Easyjet are a horrible airline to fly and despite their low, low prices I will never fly with them again. They are still not as bad as Ryanair though. [news.bbc.co.uk]
@bishplz: it's embarassing and prejudiced and meant specifically for the comfort of other people - where's the policy about guys who spread their legs out??
@boobookitteh: But that's because tall people aren't infringing on other people's space when they try to stretch their legs out. (and now that I think about it, gate agents often will suggest that tall passengers consider paying the extra $30 or whatever for a bulkhead or emergency exit seat with extra leg room).
Someone who is wider than their seat, unfortunately, often is. And I'm not specifically talking weight-- I've been next to some very trim, but very broad male seatmates who were halfway into my seat who could have perhaps considered buying a second seat for both their comfort and mine.
I've done a loooot of travel for work, and for one or two hours I don't really care what size my seatmate is. But having only 1/2 or 3/4 of a seat on an 8 hour international flight can be truly miserable. As noted above, if it's some jerk spreading his legs too wide or hogging the armrest, I can ask them to quit it. Someone who is of larger size of course this isn't an option.
@anastasia beaverhousen: My dad is 6'5" and it's been suggested by airline staff that he take emergency row exits, although they are always taken. So, to your logic, should short people be refused these seats if tall people are on the plane? My dad will generally try to find an aisle seat and put his legs out, making sure to move them for passers-by.
And, it's not just for the comfort of other people. I mean, I like my personal space but you can't really expect it on a plane. I can't imagine squeezing into a seat that is too small can be that comfortable...
@Penny: You make a good point - I am not small at 5'11'' and a plus size - I just plain don't fly. I'll drive, stay home, or read a book instead or, if I'm feeling exceptionally wealthy, fly first class.
@Hazel: This. If an airline would let my 75 lbs "lap dog" in the cabin with me, I could actually have her here with me. Flying cargo almost killed my old dog.
@musicpup: rhinovirus safari: That is my nightmare. I could never put my dog on a plane without me (in cargo or elsewhere) cos of all the horror stories I've heard.
08/25/09
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08/25/09
I'd rather be on a plane FULL of fat people than deal with any of that. Making fat people pay more is BS.
08/25/09
I don't know that I am entirely against having big people pay more, but it just seems odd, like....where is the line that says someone is too fat?
My boyfriend was recently on a SW flight for work and was sitting next to a heavyset man. An attendant came over and asked the man if he could put his seat arm rest down (it was in the up position) and the guy got all huffy and said "of course I can" and shoved it into position. He was obviously not comfortable so when the attendant left my BF said, "you can put your arm rest back up if you'd like" and the dude ignored him. BF said he felt really awkward.
It makes sense to me that if you are going to take two seats, you should pay. If I needed two seats to be comfortable I assume I would be okay paying extra. As long as seats are made to accommodate people of average size, which I don't know that they do at the moment...
08/25/09
08/25/09
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08/25/09
I don't think Flying Ass Holes should have to pay more for their seat, but they should fund the drinks of those around them to make it more tolerable.
08/25/09
I've sat next to larger people who were in my space and that's uncomfortable, but I've also gotton 'the look' from a skinny seatmate (and I was totally on my own seat, bitch - you can't catch fat) so I definitely sympathize with folks being asked to pay twice. Who's to say what's too fat - should it be up to the seat mate? And I kind of sympathize with people larger than myself- all the people who were 'in my space' looked kind of mortified and apologetic.
And of course I recently took a bus ride with a skinny girl next to me and she curled up in a ball, with her butt on my seat - so skinnies can take up space too! And she was not apologetic.
08/25/09
Obviously an unpopular idea, but airlines are desperate.
08/25/09
08/25/09
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08/25/09
I was once on a flight with the most appallingly behaved child on the planet. By the end of it, I wanted to push the kid and his parents out the emergency exit without that nifty slide inflating.
08/25/09
08/25/09
The woman seated in front of my daughter kept her seat in maximum recline for 95% of the flight effectively pinning my child in her seat.
I let her kick the woman's seat for the entire flight.
08/25/09
I'm confused as to how a toddler would be pinned in her seat by something that doesn't pin me in my seat. Seat kicking, on the other hand, is never, ever ok. EVER. (Says the girl whose perfectly straight, un-reclined seat was kicked for three hours on a recent flight.)
08/25/09
You also could have just asked the woman if she wouldn't mind putting the seat up a bit, so your daughter could move around.
08/25/09
damn straight.
plus, the people who curl up into a ball means their feet are on their own seat. um, no. please keep your feet off of the seat because they never clean the seats enough as it is.
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
I do think though that there should be a size limit (not a weight limit because weight does not always equal a certain amount of space) per seat..because if the passanger is too big for the seat it becomes uncomfortable and unsafe for not only they themself but also for the passanger/s next to them. Though how this size limit would work, I have no idea. You cant go by jean size since height and muscle mass makes a difference. I guess you could say that if someone sits down and obviously the seat isnt large enough to accomodate them, then they should pay for another one as well. After all, the airlines cannot keep expanding seat sizes all the time..But they do need to make sure that the seats available are ones that accomodate a wide range of sizes, including larger ones.
08/25/09
Airlines should be regulated properly. They should have to charge what it costs to fly people (way more than we currently pay) and they should have to treat passengers with dignity.
Yeah, so we couldn't afford to fly as often - but we are zipping around the planet at unsustainable rates right now.
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
I think a reasonable compromise for the comfort of everyone, would be to say that if you are really have difficulties sitting in one seat, presumably also bothering the person next to you, you should be offered the seat next to you, at a heavily, heavily discounted rate (like say, 20% of the ticket price) This could be an option available to you when booking, and you wouldn't have to go through an ass-judging at the gate (unless a size 2 thought they would get the second seat to lie down, abusing the system).
I don't see the airline industry changing that much. At the end of the day people want cheap and available flights and are willing to put up with a certain amount of discomfort, within reason. I only see increased discrimination against overweight passengers if itn is decided that everyone's fares are going to jump up for the comfort of the minority.
08/25/09
I simply think the seats should be large enough to accomodate obese people, but morbidly obese, no. Most people would not have to "change the ass" as you say :P But it is true that nowadays even a slim person can feel cramped in the seats that some airlines provide.
08/25/09
My husband paid a lot of money for a whole seat.
BUT, the problem is how to communicate this issue. Obviously calling someone fat is out of the question. Maybe "I paid for a whole seat, not 1/2 of one." On the one hand, it's not like this couple didn't know that they were taking up way too much space. On the other hand, if it had been me (I weigh significantly more than my husband and have an ample, but seat-fitting, tush), I would have flat-out not been able to fit.
I have thought about this for 2 years and I still don't know what we should have done.
08/25/09
I agree, it seems seats are either getting smaller or the spaces in between more cramped. They can only expand their seats so long. At some point, they end up losing business because if they make seats large enough to accomodate morbidly obese people, a thin person sitting in one of those seats would waste space that could fit another person (i.e. another seat, which equals more money).
08/25/09
She wrote to the airline that since she'd only gotten to use 2/3 of her seat, she thought she was entitled to a 1/3 refund. They sent her a voucher. So sometimes it works!
08/25/09
[news.bbc.co.uk]
08/25/09
"However we do not require them to do so this is a recommendation for their own comfort."
What is so wrong with this?
08/25/09
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08/25/09
Someone who is wider than their seat, unfortunately, often is. And I'm not specifically talking weight-- I've been next to some very trim, but very broad male seatmates who were halfway into my seat who could have perhaps considered buying a second seat for both their comfort and mine.
I've done a loooot of travel for work, and for one or two hours I don't really care what size my seatmate is. But having only 1/2 or 3/4 of a seat on an 8 hour international flight can be truly miserable. As noted above, if it's some jerk spreading his legs too wide or hogging the armrest, I can ask them to quit it. Someone who is of larger size of course this isn't an option.
08/25/09
And, it's not just for the comfort of other people. I mean, I like my personal space but you can't really expect it on a plane. I can't imagine squeezing into a seat that is too small can be that comfortable...
08/25/09
04/17/09
04/17/09
Poodles: wearing Madame-style scarves and sunglasses. Divas.
Scottish terriers -- flying undercover for the TSA.
Saint Bernards -- embarrassed, trying not to take up too much room. Probably sitting next to one of those Benji dogs
Golden Retrievers -- overly friendly with the flight attendants
Irish Setter -- wearing a fedora and tie, Don-Draper style, on a business trip
Beagles: the pilots, of course
The occasional cat -- attempting to nap, paw over eyes, ears slowly laying flat on the head as the puppies in the next seat refuse to shut up
04/17/09
04/17/09
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04/17/09
04/17/09
But at the same time, this new airline is just a dumb idea. Seriously . . . are we going to send our pets on vacation without us?
I want an airline that will let me buy a (discounted) seat for my 110 lb. dog - then we'll talk.
04/17/09
04/17/09
Said dog is now looking at Travelocity's Top 20.
04/17/09
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