<![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists! - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists! - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> Sorry for the late comment, but read this today on HuffPo and it's very relevant.
[www.huffingtonpost.com] (link leads to actual post even if it looks like it doesn't) Art Levine points out that the dems haven't won the white vote since LBJ, but we've had the white house a few times since then, so here's (desperately) hoping that Obama can pull it out in the general. Especially if everyone who has hated the last 8 years rallies behind him.

scullymurphy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> I think Obama will definitely win the popular vote this fall... for whatever that's worth. Electorally, he'll be in a better position once the Democratic party unites (I think it will -- I have enough faith in America to think that Clinton supporters who say that they won't vote for Obama now might change their minds when they see who he's running against).

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: I agree that what he said wasn't along the same lines of the O'Reilly with Sylvia's comment or Biden's reference to slaves. I didn't mean to imply that it did. I can never understand what it feels like to be black. I can understand what it feels like to be judged by the way you look, but not anywhere near the realities of a black American. My main point is allowing what others deem "racist" language by one group will not remove the racial barriers that have been put between us.

@whyknot: Im not sure what the heck is going on. Is Jez sending me a subliminal signal here? Anyways, Clinton is beyond mad if she doesn't believe that white voters will come out for Obama.

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @janesays: Okay, okay, I'll do it. You guys private message me your facebook contacts, I'll friend you when I'm home and we can set something up.

Smackdown

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Smackdown: That is an awesome idea. Also not it.

janesays

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Kaehoku: only if you promise not to wire my building. artful it appears impossible to reply to you, but it seems hillary is kind of implying she controls the white vote, and obama can't get it. but probs. she was just answering a question. free speech is important enough to me that i try to just brush it all off.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> HRC doesn't need to be arguing demographics at this point because, sorry to say, there is no possible way she is going to get the nomination.

marSF

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Artful Slinger: I think the difference is between being offended (everyone's allowed) and being subjected to a verbal expression of a fact of daily life. If you're offended by Obama's statement, that's you're right and I don't judge you for it. I just don't think it rises to the level of the other things we're talking about here because it isn't part of a larger societal problem.

That said, the rules simply aren't the same for everyone when it comes to talking about race, and they won't be and shouldn't have to be until there's actual equality.

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Too Hot For TNR: Someone needs to use some sort of internet 2.0 gagetry or Facebook or some shit to set up a meet. Someone who is not me and who is not blocked from Facebook at work.

Smackdown

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> Just a question, for clarification... My husband is an electrical engineer, and we've been married for 8 years. I'm not an electrical engineer, but we talk about his work a lot, I go to most of his work functions, and support him that way, and I do have some understanding of what he does. Could I maybe add to my resume "8 years of experience as an electrical engineer"?

Just checking.

Kaehoku

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @whyknot: Obama is supported by so many because he is "a promise of a new day". He does not play like other politicians in the public eye and seems to have new ideas for the way things must be governed - which is beyond refreshing.

I would hate to think that all black people support him cause he is black, as I detest when people think I support Hillary only because she is a woman.

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: Ahhh but the difference is, Prince Philip actually is a giant racist old arsehole! It's not a gaffe if that's just how he behaves all the time!

Sorry if this is a way late response, I was at a lecture. :)

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @treecut: it was amazing to me, watching obama speak tues night - no black people sitting behind him, and no black people amongst the talking heads discussing him after. yes, blacks support him - but perhaps for other reasons than he's black? here's an idea, ask!

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: Thanks for the answer. The second part of my comment wasn't directed at all towards you, it was directed towards the basic somewhat informed voter most Americans are, not those well versed in policy like yourself. I was merely pointing out that most Americans never get to hear policy conversations because the media deemed Rev. Wright and flag pins more important. That was my point with that.

I don't think that a majority can feel "oppressed" by a statement, but I do think we have just as much rights to be offended by language as anyone else. Obviously, people who grew up 70+ years ago are going to have very different views from me or you on race or issues. I think the problem to lump everyone who is white into this big old privileged bowl of racism isn't fair either - not saying you do this particularly. I just don't want the idea of evening things out as to lead to racist statements coming from another side. I would prefer to move beyond these statements and deal with the underlying cultural issues, but it seems impossible when the rules are not the same for everyone.

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @amoureuse likes pineapple in her Kool-Aid: Well, you certainly made the right choice.

redheadedstepchild

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @amoureuse likes pineapple in her Kool-Aid: love your committment! hope the IT guy was at least cute.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> I don't think the Clinton campaign has been following an all-out race-baiting strategy, but I get annoyed with their dismissal, and the media's dismissal of the black vote. There seems to be an underlying assumption that OF COURSE the blacks are going to vote for Obama, even though there was initially large black support for Clinton. There doesn't seem to be consideration that if record numbers of blacks turn up to the polls in the general election, that could help the Democrats.

treecut...will cut a beech

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @hellodmitri: Thank you.

The Democratic Party has two phenomenal candidates and only one can be the nominee. What point does it serve to argue who is more electable at this juncture? Let's say that it's Hillary. Okay, so what? The process has (for the most part) played out and the nominee will be Obama. The smart thing to do would be to focus on the General Election. Obamabots, you haven't won anything, yet. And frankly I'm a bit ashamed that fellow Demoracts aren't even trying to understand the view points of other Dems. WE JUST HAD EIGHT YEARS OF BUSH, for christ's sake. (btw, 257 days left until he's out of office)

Chikasiny

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Artful Slinger: Well, let me put this out there: I wasn't insulted by what he said at all, so I have a hard time saying it was racist (which has been my point about the other remarks we have been discussing). I think, frankly, what SarahMC said is probably right and a more artful way of saying what Obama was trying to get at. But I have used my grandparents as sort of a touchstone of too-old-to-know-better racism, too. It is, to me, a way of pointing out that it exists but that it doesn't make anyone a bad person.

Also, I think a lot of white people are at least a kind of functionally racist, it's been drilled into our heads so much that you can't help it, I know Jez has linked to those studies where you're presented quickly with images and asked to make snap judgments about the people in them and it turns out everyone is a little racist. But I'm too busy to link to them right now. And, in the end, I don't really think that the majority gets to points at racial minorities and say "you're racist against me." That's just stupid and is used to justify too much bad shit.

And please don't tell me I'm not paying attention to policy. Go read my article on the difference between the candidates' health care plans and we can discuss when you come back. Or bring up a policy issue. But don't talk about "us" harping on race and the harp on me to answer your question about a Fox News talking point from Obama's seminal race speech.

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> Oh and I had to flirt with the IT guy to see if they were monitoring my computer and blocking certain sites. I can now access Jezebel but also be fired for sexual harassment.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @JaneSays, thanks for getting back to the burning debate: who else wants to hang out with me in Austin the weekend after next? I'm a lot of fun.

Too Hot For TNR

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> I fear John McCain because he is not your typical Republican. Giuliani, Romney and Huckabee elicited visceral responses out of people, McCain not so much (in regards to Independent voters and the Reagan Democrats). I have heard many people say that they would be OK if John McCain won the presidency. My fear is that he might get the Reagan Democrats and the Clinton Democrats.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @amoureuse likes pineapple in her Kool-Aid: this will save him from the unhappiest of dems, the supreme court will scare everybody to the polls! obama is making people mad today by politicking in the house of reps.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> How about everyone just calm down? Obama is the nominee. Hillary will still be a strong voice in the Senate. Everyone wins. Get over it. Our real enemy here is the Republican Party and another possible four more years of Bush.

hellodmitri

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> Obamabots will bring Obama's downfall. Not pointing any fingers at anybody, but the obnoxiousness makes a person want to stay home election day. But I will vote for Obama and keep my fingers crossed because I can't live with the idea of John McCain appointing more conservative justices.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Too Hot For TNR: I'd love to hear more about Biden, to be honest.

Also, whom do you think McCain is seriously looking at as a running mate?

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: Pretty much. Context is everything, I guess. I forget people don't quite store as much random shit in their heads as I do.

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: Not to be pushy, but am I to understand that its not racist when Obama declares his grandmother or any other Caucasian person a "typical white person"?

And I think what we learned is the media's 24 hour cycle is actually the thing that is killing any conversation of policy in this election. I know its been said before, but harping on Biden's statement of Obama earlier in the primaries, Wright's statements and Clinton's statements, to name a few are the exact reasons why people have NO IDEA what these politicians would do once in power? Its also why the flip flopping non issue of last general election carried so much weight.

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> Last timethat I checked George Bush won the presidency without the AA vote.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: Yeah, I immediately go to football, and then think, wait a minute, even if I'm thinking about football, why did we start to use this phrase for football? I'm guessing it's not good...

redheadedstepchild

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: it's interesting perspective but to me giving a compliment in a racist way REALLY means a person is saying something racist/sexist/some-kinda-ist and the person on the receiving end is expected to take it w/humor or ignore it. which they might do, but if they are pissed off instead, does that give the insultor a right to feel wronged by the insultee?

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: I watched it. It was a WOW momemt and does call into question all his comments related to race. And in his enthusiastic attempt at pandering he also insults the entire state of Delaware by saying "its no northeast liberal state." Why not just say "Yup all of Delaware is stupid and doesn't own shoes, just like good ole [Insert name of state from Deep South].

The Paint by Numbers View

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @SinisterRouge: I would argue that he is actively courting them by attempting to reform his image into a populist. Also, I think (I hope) what Donna Brazile meant is that we don't need to win the working class or Latino votes to win the election. Which is true, but kind of missing the point. Personally, I just liked seeing her going crazy on TV for the excellent entertainment it provided.

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @redheadedstepchild: Also, having had this discussion with a former boss rather recently, the origin of the term (I looked it up) is specifically racist, meant to describe a supposed certain way that supposedly obviously criminal black men behave around white police.

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @SarahMC: Well stated.

rosasparks

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @redheadedstepchild: That's kind of what I was getting at, too, but it's so much harder than it sounds.

kimsama

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @topsy: well, don't get your mom too excited - this is the 2nd time i've heard that rumor and michelle doesn't look preggers. the shops in the 'hood are so crazed right now, people are walking on air and talking a lot of shit.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> Yeah... look, I really love Biden, but those comments were racist, even if they were a compliment. Just like someone complimenting Clinton for her "testicular fortitude" is sexist. Both are essentially demeaning of what the person is (either African-American or a woman), and suggest that the reason that they're talented is that they were able to overcome their blackness/femaleness. I'm sure everyone involved had the best intentions, however.

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @SarahMC: I very strongly disagree with this statement. Language has been so completely corrupted that it is nearly impossible to make a statement that no group could find offensive.

Intent MUST be considered.

redheadedstepchild

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @SinisterRouge: Hahaha! Donna Brazile said that! Hahaha! This lady and Bob Shrum are why we have George Bush.

NoDowdAboutIt

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> Oh, and RE the shuck and jive comment.

I've definitely heard the phrase used to describe broken field running. I hope that I wouldn't ever use it in a similar situation, but it would take conscious thought not to. It doesn't occur to me as racist, but it does occur that it could be perceived that way and therefore should be avoided.

Actually, after more thought: I think football and broken field running when I hear the term. But as soon as I put just a little more thought in, it gets bad. So I probably wouldn't use it, even accidentally.

redheadedstepchild

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> For God's sake, I really just think Clinton misspoke. Maybe it isn't a good idea to bring up these sort of topics that are going to make Clinton supporters upset at this point -- don't you guys realize that aggressively making Clinton out to be the bad guy is just going to alienate all her supporters? Obama is basically the nominee; Clinton's in it, but she can't attack Obama without getting calls for her to quit. The only people she's going to be aggressive with now are superdelegates, which voters won't see. We need to be conciliatory with her and her supporters, or else they're just going to be turned off by our insane cult.

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @topsy: @whyknot: A baby would be awesome! My biological clock is going nuts these days.

@The Paint by Numbers View: I'm sorry that you don't get it and that you don't want to understand.

@Too Hot For TNR: I'd love to hear that story. I you swing by New Orleans, I'll buy you one.

I'm off to bill some hours. See y'all tomorrow.

NOLA girl

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: See the video above. After that, he gets no slack from me for supposedly not knowing that it was offensive. I think we all get, like, one pass on this sort of thing because we were born in a more racist time, or because nobody told us or something. But, with him, the "slave state" comment was so egregious that it, for me, is the context of every single other thing he has said or will ever say on race, racial issues or individual people of color. I am not a forgiving person.

I'm the country one, because I'm from a relatively rural place by comparison.

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @SarahMC: "t's possible to give someone a compliment in a racist way. It's not as cut-and-dry as you want it to be."

that's, frankly, patronizing. at no point did i want it to be "cut and dried" i was merely interested in what other people thought, thankyouverymuch.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @whyknot: Could we have a brand new baby in the White House? Oh my god, wait until I tell my mother. She's will flip. This could be the grandchild she's never going to have!

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> Just curious - are any Austin based Jezebelles going to take Spencer up on his offer? Sorry Specner, that sucks. What kind of asshole friend would back out of a trip just to find a place to live??

janesays

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: Because I respect your opinion and look forward to reading you everyday. Hell, I don't care if you like him or dislike him but the reaction to his "clean/articulate" comment seems irrational and too "thought police" for you. or put another way, its more "Moe." (I forget which one of you is a "little bit country" and which one is more "rock and roll?"

The Paint by Numbers View

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: You and some others keep using the words "try" and/or "trying."

Whether or not Biden was "trying" to be offensive, HE WAS. It is not all about a person's intent; it is about the effect.
If you make an unintentionally racist remark, you should re-examine yourself, your assumptions, and the language you use.


SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Too Hot For TNR: hope you flayed that fucker, ms. multi-tasker!

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @RyanB: @Megan Carpentier: Can you please make a list of things that white people can and can not say then, which will not have a double meaning for the rest of the world?

Did either of you freak out when Obama, in his speech, called his grandmother a "typical white person"? This issue gets discussed here everyday and to be honest I don't see any type of coming together and understanding.

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> I would totally pay to see see harold and kumar detonate themselves in mosul. In the theaters.

janesays

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @marin79: @topsy: it is v. exciting and crazy - the conversations are getting nutty, too. ex: q/do you think obama will come home for vacations or use camp david? a/ are you imaging there is enough room in his house to host foreign leaders? b/c there's not even enough room for the security people in the side yard! really, hyde park chicago is starting to see itself as the mid-western white house and it's funny - there is NO ROOM for any of this and not an inch of free space around his block at all. good thing his neighbors love him!

also, gossip, i heard he smoked a cig w/some secret service in the back yard and i'm hearing michelle is expecting. probably at least one of those rumors is false.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: If you are born in and grow up in a racist society, then yes, everybody IS a little bit racist. Some people are a lot racist. Some people are proud of being racist.

It's possible to give someone a compliment in a racist way. It's not as cut-and-dry as you want it to be.

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: I think, when he says that after he brags about how Deleware was a slave state, yes, he's a racist. Watch him smugly declare how he's like South Carolinians because people in his state owned slaves too. That's my context for calling him out.

+ Watch video

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Too Hot For TNR: hmm, ok. and i think this is a much longer and more detailed debate than i can manage with my single index finger typing skillz.

see you later, hot stuff.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> Have to jump off this thread now - at least for the time being. Had a blast, though, as always!

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @redheadedstepchild: No kidding - having 8 years of great Obama speeches will definitely go along way in making up for the last 8! (Although, I will miss some of the wonderful Bushisms we've been treated to!)

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @RyanB: I agree that Biden's statement raised eyebrows and rightfully so but I think it falls short of being racist. I don't think he was even trying to speak in code. I think, like all people who talk too much, he tripped over his own tongue. From CNN:

Biden issued a statement Wednesday afternoon, saying: "I deeply regret any offense my remark in the New York Observer might have caused anyone. That was not my intent and I expressed that to Sen. Obama."

Biden also spoke to reporters in a conference call Wednesday afternoon and said the remark was taken out of context.

"Barack Obama is probably the most exciting candidate that the Democratic or Republican Party has produced at least since I've been around," Biden said on the call. "And he's fresh. He's new. He's smart. He's insightful. And I really regret that some have taken totally out of context my use of the world 'clean.'"

Biden said he was referring to a phrase used by his mother.

"My mother has an expression: clean as a whistle, sharp as a tack," Biden said.

Obama, in a brief off-camera interview in a Senate hallway, said he thinks Biden "didn't intend to offend" anyone.

"He called me," Obama said. "I told him it wasn't necessary. We have got more important things to worry about. We have got Iraq. We have got health care. We have got energy. This is low on the list."

"He was very gracious and I have no problem with Joe Biden," Obama added.

The Paint by Numbers View

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @redheadedstepchild: Certainly no one will ever accuse W of being so!!

NOLA girl

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NOLAgirl: Yeah. That was...unfortunate.

I will say though, that having a president who can be described as articulate will be a damn site better than our current situation.

redheadedstepchild

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @RyanB: well put, and thanks.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @BadenBaden: What what what??? Please tell us all about it and let her know that her husband and her family would have made me a proud American if he had the chance to lead!

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: No, I don't think he's racist. I don't really just throw that term around. But his statement was foolish and offensive.

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> I don't think Biden "harbours a life long hatred of black people" either. But that's not the definition of racism. And I just cannot understand why anyone would argue that those words were not racist and insulting (whether intended to be or not).

@ NOLAgirl, am with you 100 percent. (Charlotte, you know I love you; see you at Angles later.) Biden is like Larry David in Curb Your Enthusiasm: his racism come less from malice than from buffoonery and intellectual laziness. Only Biden isn't playing a character.

(Well he is, actually. But that's a story for over a beer.)

Also, just to stunt for a second: in the time since my last comment I wrote and filed a 1300 reported piece about John Yoo. Yay me.

Too Hot For TNR

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> And SinRoo (as marin called you) I don't have a problem with you. I just find you to be very hot-tempered, often illogical or just plain unfair in your arguments and a bit of a bully at times.

And I also think you're very lucky to have a such a great group willing to stick up for you when they see some of this behavior too.

funkchunk

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: If you say so. Are you related to him or something? Why does it matter if I think he's racist? I'm not a constituent.

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @whyknot: I agree with you there. And honestly, I'm not sure having HRC as the VP will really unite people that much at this point. A month ago I wouldn't have said the same thing, but I sort of feel like we need a fresh start moving forward. And there are a bunch of good candidates for VP that could help bring in some of the HRC people anyway.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @whyknot: That must be so exciting! I envy you.

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @RyanB: do you believe biden meant to be racist w/ that statement? i just didn't see it, but then, i'm english and somehow we don't speak the same language. i'm really not saying people don't have the right to be upset, but i didn't think he meant to be a racist douche.

that said, this forum is always fascinating.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: I mean, yes, it would be great to all come together. But RyanB is right, we can't just sort of say, hey, we all love each other, it's cool because it's still all there, it's just entrenched, swept aside, pushed under the rug, etc. And, with some people, it's not harmless asides or saying the wrong thing or using the wrong word (not that those things are completely excusable because I think it's a sign that one needs to do some soul searching about where one's own fault lines are when it comes to race) but it's out and out hatred and active discrimination, too.

Also, sexism sucks too.

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @RyanB: I agree with that, it's like people who discredit sexist remarks.

Ok, so now I have an entirely philosophical question. Since some words may not have a negative connotation to all people, in what circumstance are they wrong? Should we look at intent, effect, or the word itself?

The problem with taking on the words is the eventual push to become "word police" (which would always be useless, anyway, because people just co-opt new words). And of course, you can't really ever completely know intent. And finally, if you go with effect, then you end up with people telling each other to "stop being so sensitive," because after all, it's their interpretation that imbues the word with its power. ARGH, my brain is exploding.

kimsama

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @marin79: Fine, then we can agree to disagree. I don't think we need to waste more of each other's time.

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: I do think that we are all, in varying degrees, a little (or a lot) racist. I do think that Biden thought he was being complimentory. But just as you didn't understand why "boy" is an unacceptable term, I think you're missing something in cultural translation. Believe me, I have duel Uk/US citizenship and I understand. I'm not being ugly.

NOLA girl

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @whyknot: That's so sweet! I'm happy for everyone there - it has to be really cool to have lived next to the guy who may very well be the next President!

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @marin79: jesus, it's an insane asylum, srsly. obama has been home a lot b/c of the indiana campaign and the rev. wright explosion, his nice comeback, and now being anointed the winner in the meme has just roller-coastered the entire area emotionally. was in the hair salon on saturday and it was buzzing - they could run the hairdryers on the electricity in the air. everyone in chicago is convinced, esp. his neighbors, that obama will thump mccain badly. it's like a contact high down there!

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @topsy: Your comment was about Clinton supporters & as one, I responded. And also, check out my other comments here today - I'm not in a "mood." I found your comment to be unrepresentative of what I've seen from Clinton supporters here & I responded. Don't try to imply otherwise just b/c I questions you for saying something that I haven't seen to be true.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: I can understand how you feel. It does get tiring having the same conversation over and over. And it doesn't help when you realize that your parents (or the gay men/women who came before you) probably had the same conversation before you were born.

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: Joe Biden is not racist. He trips over his own tongue but he's not racist.

The Paint by Numbers View

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: You don't think Biden meant that? Read the entire quote and then report back with thoughts. NOLAgirl

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> "Democrat Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman said on Thursday he believes the Democrats will have a presidential nominee in June and that if it is not Clinton, she will campaign for rival Barack Obama. "

Reuters report

TheGuvnah

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @whyknot: and webb is IN.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @BluerSkies: nix on the HRC for VP - obama will not choose anybody who voted for the iraq war, that means hills, biden, dodd, edwards, kerry, etc are all out.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NOLAgirl: I'm not sure off the top of my head what Obama should do, as I think he's doing pretty well and I'm not sure what he should/could change, but I totally think Hills should drop out and endorse him - that would be the quickest way for him to get an "in" with the blue collar white vote.

BeachyGirl

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @marin79: yep, philip is a total moron.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @whyknot: So what's the neighborhood saying these days? Everyone must be pretty excited!

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @TheGuvnah: Oh dear, not you too. Marin is in the mood, why don't you fight with her?

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: Look, believe what you want to believe. Walk around calling black men and women articulate if you want. Several of us have tried to point out to you that it's considered racist and insulting and you can certainly choose not to believe us. But it is. It's also not the first racist remark Joe Biden has ever made (anyone else recall when he told Southern voters that he understood their issues because Delaware was a slave state too?), so he doesn't get a pass from me or pretty much anyone else but you.

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: That's horrifying! Too bad you can't take away the Prince or Duke titles!

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @SinisterRouge:

I did that already. Check a few crappy hours back.

and that "aight" was so gangsta.

funkchunk

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NOLAgirl: as i've stated before, i think we're ALL susceptible to buying into stereotypes and jumping to conclusions, but racism to me is more overt. or perhaps, we're all just a little bit racist deep down?

and it's interesting that you don't see any redemption or compliment in biden's words, just racism and condemnation.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: Sure, certain words mean different things for certain people. My problem is with people who completely discredit the offense that many people take to words with racial roots.

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @marin79: Isn't that what this whole discussion is about? You took my comment as an accusation and was so offended by it that you felt that you had to respond in a very strong manner. I wasn't accusing YOU at all.

And I thought the 'we may all look alike...'comment was funny.

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> everyone, everywhere is asking hillary why she is staying in the race - so she should not be flayed for responding, regardless of her response. IMO she was just trying to explain her base of support and her responsibility to them.

the sexism of the chicago tribune this morning really pissed me right off - hillary's math problem - oh am sure they didn't mean to tie women + bad at math, right?

obama will probs find a way to increase his support among hill backers by the time he blows out mccain. relax everybody.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @topsy: way to put racism into thier mouth! Not fair.

gold_gato

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NOLAgirl: Preach it! Thanks for posting the entire quote.

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> if we want to talk racist gaffs, look at prince phillip (who's GREEK!)

During a state visit to China in 1986, he famously told a group of British students: "If you stay here much longer, you'll all be slitty-eyed".

And speaking to a driving instructor in Oban, Scotland, he asked: "How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to get them through the test?".

Other eyebrow-raising pronouncements have included:

# Still throwing spears? (Question put to an Australian Aborigine during a visit in March 2002)

# "British women can't cook." (1966)

# "Everybody was saying we must have more leisure. Now they are complaining they are unemployed." (during the 1981 recession)

# "We didn't have counsellors rushing around every time somebody let off a gun, asking 'Are you all right? Are you sure you don't have a ghastly problem?' You just got on with it." (commenting in 1995 on modern stress counselling for servicemen)

# "If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?" (in 1996, amid calls to ban firearms after the Dunblane shooting)

# "Bloody silly fool!" (in 1997, referring to a Cambridge University car park attendant who failed to recognise him)

# "It looks as if it was put in by an Indian." (in 1999, referring to an old-fashioned fuse box in a factory near Edinburgh)

# "Deaf? If you are near there, no wonder you are deaf." (in 1999, to young deaf people in Cardiff, referring to a school's steel band)

# "They must be out of their minds." (in 1982, in the Solomon Islands, after being told that the annual population growth was only 5%)

# "You are a woman, aren't you?" (in 1984, in Kenya, to a native woman who had presented him with a small gift)

If it has got four legs and it is not a chair, if it has got two wings and it flies but is not an aeroplane, and if it swims and it is not a submarine, the Cantonese will eat it

The Duke of Edinburgh

# "Your country is one of the most notorious centres of trading in endangered species in the world." (in 1991, in Thailand, after accepting a conservation award)

# "Oh no, I might catch some ghastly disease." (in 1992 in Australia, when asked to stroke a Koala bear)

# "You can't have been here that long - you haven't got a pot belly." (in 1993, to a Briton in Budapest, Hungary)

# "Aren't most of you descended from pirates?" (in 1994, to an islander in the Cayman Islands)

# "You managed not to get eaten, then?" (in 1998, to a student who had been trekking in Papua New Guinea)

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> I have not been a fan of an Obama / HRC ticket til now, but I think I've changed my mind. They're copacetic on policy issues and together they'd be a mighty demographic force. Cheney has already transformed the vice presidency into something heretofore unimagined. HRC would be a great antidote to the evil empire of the last eight years. Bill could fly under the radar a little better. They'd get a cute house to live in without all those nasty Monica memories haunting every corner. I say unite and conquer.

I also say that HRC should stay in until the end. It's been so long since we've had an interesting nomination process in this country that we're all atwitter over "conflict". This is what democracy looks like, fools. Celebrate and rejoice. (And I'm a long time Obamaniac.)

BluerSkies

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @rosasparks: Yeah, it wasn't the best choice of words, which was weird b/c as an ad man, usually Axe is pretty good about phrasing things better. But they all make mistakes - esp after probably being up for days straight at that point!

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: This is what he said:

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

I don't think Biden "harbours a life long hatred of black people" either. But that's not the definition of racism. And I just cannot understand why anyone would argue that those words were not racist and insulting (whether intended to be or not).

NOLA girl

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @RyanB: absolutely, but can we agree that words have different meanings to different people? i've experienced a fair bit of racism, and it fucking sucks, but it's not the first thing on my mind when i think someone has insulted me.

that form of abuse usually starts b/c i'm a woman. or, you know, annoying.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @topsy: I certainly don't mean to dismiss the way other people think about it because for the longest time I was ALL EARS hearing "homophobia" in a lot of what people said. They were impervious and I was simply tired. exhausted. You call me on a good point -- if I'm trying to speak from experience I should write it that way. So to Megan and RyanB I apologize if I offend.

The Paint by Numbers View

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @topsy: oh come on. "We may all look alike but we don't usually post alike"

now who's trying to start a fight? get the fuck over yourself.

TheGuvnah

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @topsy: To hear the cries of outrage issuing from the Clinton supporters makes me laugh. These are the same people who had no problem blaming Obama for every word that came out of Rev. Wright.

Actually, I'm not the one who wrote this & then expected Clinton supporters not to be offended and respond. That's not me instigating a fight - it's me responding to an accusation that I believe to be false. Also, my comment about the word "boy" was in regard to your response to Megan, which was what was being discussed in the comments above. I know you weren't a part of that discussion, but your comment that I found a little condescending was, which is why I addressed it.

And also "We may all look alike but we don't usually post alike." was unnecessary.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: i can see how it was taken to have racist undertones, but i did not see it as pejorative. looking at biden's civil rights record, i don't think the man harbours a life long hatred of black people, he's just always sticking his foot in his mouth.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: He said "clean" not "clean-cut". What adult man have you referred to as clean?

NOLA girl

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: Yes, but to get beyond it we must first recognize and appreciate that certain words and terms and phrases offend certain people, and then stop using them.

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: i really agree, however, while i think the massive white power structure in this country HAS to change, i don't think constant rehashing of identity politics helps much. otherwise, won't we just end up with 300 million special interest groups? and a rich, warmongering whitey will win- and if someone infers that's a hillary snip, i'll cut a bitch! i was practicing on myself last night :-)

aren't we trying to come together in this election? b/c that would rock.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: Fair enough. But can you just dismiss the way other people feel just because you don't feel the same way?

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: Not if someone speaks that way about everyone or if the statement is true. I seriously don't think Joe Biden meant "Barack Obama is clean cut and articulate and all other black men aren't" And Obama has a crispness (a GQ-ness) -- that what I took Biden's "clean cut" to mean -- that MOST POLITICIANS don't have. Note Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay and their ilk are certainly NOT clean cut. And Obama is one of the most articulate and inspiring speakers since JFK.

Biden's statement is racist if you want to see it that way. I don't.

The Paint by Numbers View

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @marin79: I forgot to add how mortified I was to hear "Joe Six-Pack" as a description of a demographic. I choked on my rose at bit.

rosasparks

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: Thank you so much for addressing that one. I was trying to figure out the best way to go about it, but my patience is wearing thin!

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @SinisterRouge: I can just see it now, instead of whites saying "but I have black friends" to charges of racism, they'll be saying "but I voted for Obama."

The two things that really bother me about this primary is the Hillary-hate amongst some of Obama's supporters and the fanaticism/sexual obsession/bandwagon feel of his whole campaign. Women should NOT be voting for a candidate just because they think he or she is "hot."

I live in a deeply red state so my vote is sorta useless anyway; if HRC doesn't get the nomination, I'll vote Gravel (if he gets the Libertarian nomination). Have I mentioned that I really really hate the two-party system?

Afin

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NefariousNewt: it's ok, i can't stand that they run the place, nor that they are making hay out of this tragedy. have a look: [www.irrawaddy.org]

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NOLAgirl: I personally think it's important that he focuses more on policy & less on the lofty idea of change and unity to reach those groups. Also it would probably help if his campaign didn't refer to them as the "Joe Six-Pack" demographic! I do hope that he'll be able to win over those voters. McCain sucks on the economy & that's going to be all anyone is focused on by Nov, so hopefully that will work to his advantage if you can speak directly to what he can do there. Also, I agree with his campaign's strategy to nix some of the big rallies & speechs and instead go more townhall with his message.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: So, pointing out that certain things are racist is crying wolf? No one said everything they said is racist, hell, I think RyanB and Topsy and rosa (I've forgotten the rest of your name, I'm sorry!) have gone out of their way to distinguish between what are racist remarks and the people themselves. If you really don't recognize what those politicians said as racially charged, then you're the one with a problem. A big one.

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @marin79: You obviously are looking to pick a fight and I'm just not interested. If you care to go back over my comments you will see that I never discussed the word 'boy'. We may all look alike but we don't usually post alike.

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> seeing as i'm not sure i really qualify, in any of the categories, but i'd like him to lay out a clear strategy regarding what he's going to do about the economy, the haemorrhage of jobs, iraq, the health care crisis, etc.

in language that your average voter can undestand.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @gold_gato: YES - I think that spawned our argument actually.

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NOLAgirl: Go on that "Black. White" reality show and get Ice Cube to turn him White...

No no, I'm just playin :) Talk more about his family history. His mother. His grandparents. Sit down with white working class people at the pub and ask them about their hardships. Make himself more "real" to these voters.

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @topsy: No they haven't. Name a name if you claim that someone here - aside from maybe a random person who showed up & said something crazy - blamed Obama for Wright's words. B/c I for one didn't see it.

@topsy: And talk about rude. Most of us don't need you to explan that the term "boy" thrown at Obama is grossly out of line. Nor would most of us ever think something like that, let alone have something so racist come out of our mouths.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: You're right -- I stand corrected. My zeal to get comments in sometimes does not jibe with my internal editing.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @RyanB: did you see the Real World episode (yeah, I know) recently where the blond tells the african-american girl to "not get ghetto" as she's becoming upset? I nearly died for her.

gold_gato

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: In fairness, he also referred to his wife as the "girl" in the campaign. Context is important. If you want to find racism in every comment you can do that. I could do that, but it is a pointless and tiring exercise. Being gay, I could choose to hear homophobia in a lot of comments. You and Moe heard homophobia in Easley's use of the word pansy. I didn't.

The Paint by Numbers View

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: Biden's comment was completely ridiculous. As if an average black man is dressed as a slob and speaks poorly. Jeez.

I am really inspired by this thread, even though I initially name-called Hillary, and I was called stupid. I am glad that people are just talking about this so substantively.

rosasparks

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @marin79: And it was the media who made it an issue in the first place! Clinton certainly didn't press Obama on it, knowing it was political dirty water, but the press kept it alive, finally even giving Wright air time to reiterate that he is an intelligent man and a complete kook!

Can we all just give it up now? It's over! Rev. Wright is now a backstory. Let him fade into obscurity where he belongs. We have to look forward. Hillary's still in... it will take a miracle to win, but she's willing to give it a shot. I knew this would happen, simply because she doesn't quit. When her Senate races weren't going well, she didn't quit. When the Lewinsky scandal broke, she didn't quit on Bill. This should not come as a shock! I said it yesterday while everyone was busying going "well, it's over, good game, etc." Frankly, staying in at this juncture is no great loss, and perhaps a smart move, because it outlines her willingness to fight, to be tough, and hang in. This could be of great benefit come the convention.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> So I'm going to throw out a question to everyone. Assuming that Obama is our nominee, what can he do to reach out to working class white voters?

NOLA girl

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: You have no idea. It's frustrating and just bloody boring.

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NefariousNewt: just fyi: "burma" isn't "putting paranoia ahead of their own people, the SLORC junta are.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @RyanB: Not backwards at all. Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, and Geraldine Ferraro are NOT racist. To jump on EVERY comment in an attempt to portray it as racist IS playing the race card. According to your logic their comments were "tinged" or "coded." That's a lot of winking and nodding.

Is this what we have to look forward to for the rest of the campaign? It doesn't sound like a winning strategy and quite frankly it's bound to turn off a lot of voters. Ever hear the story about the boy who cried wolf?

The Paint by Numbers View

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @marin79: I'm not going to name any names because that would be rude and inflammatory. We both know that those comments have been made over and over again.

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Megan Carpentier: All the time. I'm actually working on a blog post (well, more like a rant), explaining how and why certain words or just offensive. I felt the need to do so after I got into a huge fight with a close friend over the word "ghetto" and why I hate it. He was using this asinine argument - The Paint by Numbers View - trying to convince me that it was my fault that, when others use the word, I take "racially"...

I ended up throwing him out.

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> I could live the rest of my life without hearing the words, "race card" again and be happy.

I'm not getting into the political arguments here - my feelings are you support who you want to support. But when a person's negative experiences in relationship to "race" are labeled as the "race card" it diminishes the actual experience of that person.
Please realize it may be a minor blimp to you if you aren't a member of the class that daily deals with race issues in the grocery store, at their job, driving home, buying a car etc.

I'm sick of that term!


CreoleSugar

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @brookidy: And that is diplomacy. I will accept our mutual disagreement on the issue. :)

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @RyanB: About a Presidential candidate, who probably deplores the fact that people inappropriately call Hillary a bitch. Word.

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Rose_Selavy: Honestly. Can it get any worse? Remember the response after the big Christmastime Tsunami? Everyone leapt into action, supplies were being shuttled in, workers were pouring in to try and help out, and there weren't many complaints from the affected countries that the U.S. was trying to subvert their government. Burma has no excuse -- they're putting their own paranoia ahead of the lives of a million or more people.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @BeachyGirl: thank you, that's very kind!

btw, i can't vote, but i'm excited about how involved people have gotten about this race. it's gotten millions of people to register to vote, which i think is a good thing! i guess it's too much to hope for that hills/obama could run together. for america, such as. i do't even care who's who, just as long as mccain doesn't win.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @topsy: Name one person on this site who has EVER blamed Obama for Wrights words. Seriously. I read CH every day & if anything most HRC supporters said Wright was a non-issue & called the media assholes for making it one.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NOLAgirl: It would be BAD for Obama if Hillary pulled out now.

The Paint by Numbers View

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NoDowdAboutIt: So now you're assuming that only African-Americans are going to vote for him in the GE?

NOLA girl

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: Yes, I think black men calling one another boy is an attempt to reclaim the word. There are just some words that some people can't say, and I'm fine with that. I think if you're referring to a multiracial group of men as boys or kids, you're fine (plus the accent would help). Referring to one adult black man as a kid or a boy as a white person, you will indeed look racist.
@The Paint by Numbers View: Calling a black man "clean cut and articulate" is indeed racially charged. It connotes the expectation that for it to be so is surprising.

RyanB, topsy, do end up explaining this stuff to people a lot?

Megan Carpentier

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> Sorry I was responding to lermanzo.

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @RyanB: as my halloween costume last year, i went as miss cegenation (part of a joke existential beauty pageant) b/c i'm mixed. i was STAGGERED by the loving vs comm. of VA case, and the eugenics crap that only got repealed in the 70's.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NoDowdAboutIt: I didn't say that YOU had done any of those things. I believe I used the term 'Clinton supporters'.

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NefariousNewt: I have a lot of respect for just about everything you say on the boards, so I'm just going to agree to disagree with you on this and let you get into the Clinton/Obama fray, with a little Burma chaser. Another forum, another day.

brookidy

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @lermanzo: Of course. And I believe Obama is the one more prone to change the system, as it were

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @lermanzo: I completely agree with what you said.

However, if she's truly enlightened, this kind of comment just doesn't happen. It goes beyond saying, 'oh, she should know better.' These types of comments are deeply hurtful and totally unnecessary. If the response is simply, well, she's pandering to get votes, then I find that deplorable.

Oh, and I was offended and disheartened when Obama called the woman in PA, 'sweetie'. I was just as upset about that.

rosasparks

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @NoDowdAboutIt: I don't know if I can have a conversation with someone who uses the word "douchenozzle"

RyanB

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @The Paint by Numbers View: That argument defies logic.

NOLA girl

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @Charlotte Corday: Ugh, that sucks! Sorry that happened! Yay for all the woman docs & bummer about the pills! (Sometimes the only upside of those situations!)

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @funkchunk: If you have an issue with ME, address ME. Aight?

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]> @RyanB: You think the 30% of African-Americans in this country is going to put a candidate in the White House? If every eligible African-American voted for him, it wouldn't be enough of the electorate to win.

NoDowdAboutIt

]]> <![CDATA[Who Would God Vote For? Probably the Fascists!]]>