Here's a really good article about the morals of GTA IV.

[www.slate.com]

JRae

On a related note, Bully, a game made by Rockstar, the makers of GTA III and IV, has immediate punishment for any violence against girls.

Do some more research before you complain next time.

PS I'm surprised there was no mention of "hot coffee" here.

wesrubix

slightlyflawed

kctomorrow

Zlevee

ChefReinhold

samethingwedoeverynightpinky

We can kill cops, homeless people, gangsters, wall street suits, people out jogging or rastas, but as long as we don't depict any sort of violence against women it's all good?

Fuck that.

The people making the most noise here are the people who haven't played the game and obviously don't get what everyone else is talking about when they call it a sandbox. At the end of the day, your ability to beat up or shoot women is directly linked to your desire to do so.

Is this such a difficult concept? We're talking about a crime story. It's based in a ludicrous, darkly satirical mirror of New York where morality and common sense have been thrown out the window. It's actually a very well-written essay on the death of the American Dream, one that offends practically everyone and pulls very few punches - and don't think they just pick on the conservatives or the weak, because everyone's fair game.

Yet you types seem to get offended because you want to think about it in terms of a sort of progression-based system where killing women (hookers or whoever) is an integral part of the plot. It's not, and as other people have mentioned the whole hooker angle is pretty annoying anyway. It's there because you can't honestly write an essay on the death of morality without actually having that morality being run over, shot and taken advantage of.

The best bit about the to-and-fro of all this is that a lot of you seem very happy to stereotype gamers as the kinds of people who enjoy sexual violence. Does that straw man work for you people? Does it make you more secure in your shaky high ground while you moralise to me about how things should be, discounting what we say because we're obviously women beaters anyway?

Fuck you. I'm going to play the game and enjoy the shit out of it. And I won't be picking up any hookers, or singling out women for special punishment, because my Niko Bellic doesn't roll that way. And I'll enjoy every damn minute because I won't bow down to your attempts at censoring satire and damn good storytelling.

splines

I see no problem with the depiction of violence towards women in this game. This game is about the seedy underbelly of life. Yes, that includes killing hookers and strippers, but it also includes killing black gang members, stereotypical italian/russian mobsters, cops, and regular folk who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. To take issue with the killing of women (which is a VERY small part of these games) and no others is ridiculous. If you're against violent video games, fine, I can understand where you're coming from, just don't cherrypick your objections.

erebusrat

I'm not fine with other commenters labeling this particular item as promoting sexualized or sexist violence, as that's a wrong conclusion based on one media-hyped scenario that a player is never even directed to perform in game of countless possible scenarios.

To be upset about an open world where people of any gender, ethnicity, religion, occupation, etc. are not focused on and can be killed is not something I will challenge. i think we've seen worse in film and television, but at least I can't say that argument is looking for a problem where there isn't one.

Zlevee

And studies have shown that video games influence children no more than movies or television. (Yeah yeah... couldn't find the citation on my first googling, but I have seen it before.)

JRae

The rating of this game is COMPLETELY besides the point. And the fact is, I bet most women on here who hate this game don't necessarily want to see it censored, as censorship is also besides the point.

The game is clearly a symptom of a MYRIAD of FUCKED UP ideologies going on right now in our society, more specifically the entertainment industry and even more specifically the gaming industry.

Censoring does as much as putting a big red "M" rating on the box. So I am going to take a guess that for the people who are on here who hate this game, it is less an issue of censorship and more an issue of the disturbing trends in entertainment.

If this wasn't a "game", if this was a live action movie, I bet there would be a whole different attitude towards this type of content.

slightlyflawed

I want to play GTA, I'm a feminist, and I haven't "given up on life". I understand satire and humor, and I understand that just because a game portays a facet of existing society that I don't like, doesn't mean that the game is endorsing that or that type of behavior.

The real problem with GTA is that once you get bored with the "I can go anywhere and do anything aspect!" the main plotline's missions also get boring and repetitive (retrieve this person/object, kill these people, rinse, repeat). HA!!!! :P

JRae

So you think Rated R movies should be illegal too? Movies depict abuse, sexual violence, regular violence, degradation to women... and yet none of you are saying those should be illegal, or that those movies are encouraging people to perform those violent acts. (What about Saw? You think that inspired a bunch of creepy hyper-moral serial killers?) Video games are another medium, just like TV or the internet, and you will find the same breadth, depth, and range of topics shown in those mediums.

Video games aren't just for kids anymore. They are all grown up now, and should be treated with the same respect all the other forms of media are.

JRae

"But that's not what I care about. It's the subject matter, the plot, the purpose of the game that raises the feminist red flags"

But here goes:
That completely misses the point of everything those defending this game have said. The subject matter, plot and purpose have nothing to do with the detail you're focusing on. For a more elaborate explanation, see the many previous comments you've ignored.

Zlevee

Well why have any movies with killing or rape in them then? Why depict anything at all in media that we don't like or find offensive? You're essentially saying it's ok to censor things because you don't like them.

This is a democracy. If you don't like something, don't buy it, don't let your children buy iy. It's that simple. But you can't tell me, a grown woman who has never committed a crime or hurt another human being, who enjoys violent games like this and thinks GTA is a masterpiece and work of art, that I'm not allowed to play it. It's my choice, and I know I'm not some secretly violent sicko just because I enjoy gangster flicks and games.

JRae

Zlevee

JRae

First of all, it's rated M, so should only be played by 17 and older who know better. If younger kids are playing it, they are doing so against the rules, same way kids can sneak into Rated R movies. The only one who can influence that is the parents.

Killing hookers is not an objective of the game. GTA is a sandbox game, which means you can do whatever you want, good or bad. You can kill ANY pedestrian, but of course there are consequences (the cops get on you). Hookers are a type of pedestrian that you can pick up in your car, drive somewhere quiet, the car squeaks and bounces and she makes hilarious half-hearted sex noises, and the she gets out and a little of your money is taken away. Then, if you wish, you can get out and kill her the same way you can kill any pedestrian, and get your money back.

It's not like there's a mission that says "kill all the hookers!". It's a funny little detail in the game that's hilarious. It's not specifically woman-hating, as hookers do exist in real life, right? It's only hateful if the players intends it to be that way, in which case it's their problem, not the game's. The player can also choose to drive an ambulance around and save people from dying, drive a cop car and be a vigilante, or even a pizza delivery boy, but you never hear about THOSE game options of course.

If you don't like it, don't play it, it's that simple. But you can't tell those of us who do like it that we're not allowed to play. As I like to say, "I kill in videogames so I don't have to in real life." ;) As someone else commented, it's about becoming a charcter and doing things you would never do in real life... that's why it's FUN!! What, you want a game about balancing your checkbook and buying groceries?

Also, games will never portray women realistically until women start designing and programming games. Guys aren't trying to be misogynistic, they just aren't as tuned in to these issues as we are, naturally, same way SNL didn't have many funny female-oriented skits until Tina Fey became head writer. Girls won't become video game programmers until they start playing video games.

So if you want better video games, then take the time to learn and understand the medium, rather than having kneejerk censorship reactions.

Gawd, you'd think you were a bunch of old white men instead of the progressive young women you are. ;)

BTW, the same "everything wrong with society is because of this new media I don't understand" reaction happened with comic books, movies, "talkies"... we'll all get over it as soon as our gaming kids grow up and start making the decisions. And then you can be the old farts shaking your fists and muttering "kids these days..." ;)

JRae

Yes, it is violent, brutal, has a lot of course language, and also depicts women in a bad light. But it also reflects New York in a bad light (as the city, named Liberity City is closely designed after New York) with the gang violence and whatnot. I'm sure other races feel that it depicts them in a bad way. For instance, early in the game you meet some Jamacian relatives, and their characters are pretty much exactly like the Bob Marley/weed smoking sterotypes. And yes, there are strippers, there are prostitues, and the Internet Cafe is called Tw@t.

Even some of the talk radio stations have potentially offensive content. On a Conservative radio station called WKTT (We Know The Truth), there's a call-in show called the "Richard Bastien Show" in which the host is pretty much a douche that spews hate left right and center about liberals and terrorists. And on one station there's an advertisment for a show called "America's Next Top Hooker". And hell, yes, the commentary is offensive, but it's also satirical, and when in the hell was satire ever light and easy to listen to? It's not.

Clearly this isn't a game for everyone, and for those of you who don't want to watch this stuff, then just avoid the game. I think the prostitute aspect is upsetting to most feminists because realistically, prostitutes are the most vulnerable people in society. And GTA4 (along with other GTA games) doesn't exactly help players become more aware of that, I know; it really just glamorizes it in a completely unrealistic way. Prostitutes are generally women who have nothing left and are forced to sell their bodies to make money.

And the general reason why people kill prostitutes in the game is because they usually have a lot of cash on them. Not that I'm saying that it makes the game okay, but as far as I know, friends of mine who play the game don't give half a shit about the prostitutes. They just want to find the fast cars and drive them over jumps.

Video games are just escapist. And in my personal opinion, they don't encourage people to commit violent acts. An upper class kid who plays Grand Theft Auto isn't going to suddenly want to become a drug dealer. That's fact.

There are terrible misogynist themes in movies, television shows, books; they're everywhere. I think why video games get most of the heat these days is because they are user-guided. You CHOOSE to kill a hooker, you CHOOSE to kill a man and steal his car, you CHOOSE to get on top of a building and shoot padestrians. Personally, for me, it's hard to watch the violence gameplay sometimes, but it's also hard for me to watch a bunch of guys play football with a girl's severed head (not that I've seen Hostel: Part II, a movie which is pretty much exclusive to violence against women).

In this day and age, where offensive content is pretty much contained in everything, parents can't expect society to shield these images away from their children. There are ratings and whatnot, but it's up to a parent to tell a kid whether or not they can watch that movie or read that book or play that video game. Kids need to know the right from the wrong before they become indulged into this world.

What about that damn Hugh Heffner video game, Playboy: The Mansion? Is that game not ideal? Does it not also degrade women in general? I once read an article about eleven year-old boys who were playing it. What kind of fucking parent lets their kid play a game like that?

Just like all media in the modern age, you consume it with a choice (or as a parent, you choose to let your kid consume it). That's just the way it is. As a feminist, yes, I am offended to watch some of the scenes in GTA. But it's just what's out there, and there are far worse things that I should be getting my panties up in a bunch about.

And just like one of the talk radio stations in the game states: "Technology is a tool created by the libaral agenda to kill us."

Bekanator

sugarbear11

bansaiiiiii

That's love, ladies. That's love.

'scuz me. I got some killin' to do.

NewsBunny

oeditrix

In GTA you can kill anyone, anyplace at anytime. That's why people like it. I find it a little hypocritical that people focus on my taking a pipwrench to a prostitute but are fine that my stabbing a police officer to death. If you don't want your kids playing it, be a parent and keep them away from the damn game. Don't blame the world for your incompetence at raising your child, sheesh.

battleaxonista

I am way late in this conversation and probably won't get any responses, but we need to remember that prostitutes are abused and murdered on a regular basis, and nobody gives a shit. At least when an old lady is shot or a cop is killed, there is some reaction from society. People are outraged. When a prostitute is killed, if anyone pays attention, it's because it's salacious, not because it's a fucking tragedy.

So, yeah, it's not integral to the game, but it's just another reinforcement of how sex workers (and women in general) are treated in this society. I don't propose that we yank these games off the shelves, but I seriously think we need to take a look at ourselves and figure out why the fuck these activities could ever be considered "fun." Because isn't that why you play a video game? Because it's fun?

I don't think that anyone is going to go out and kill a prostitute because of this game, but it's just another bit of hate speech that is thrown at women day after fucking day. It's not okay.

TruculentandUnreliable

Someone get this girl a map! Such as.

LipstickLibrarian

what do you want NIko to say, "Oh yeah girl I love you and respect you so much!" ?

vanka

I don't think anyone who plays the game will be like yes, all violent video games SHOULD BE STOPPED. It's an old, old, argument. There is nothing new under the censorship sun.

vanka

Yet, somehow the sexual content and violence are not connected.

meaghan2k

If there is violence in a video game directed towards women, I have a very, very difficult time understanding how this is not a form of violence that is accepted. You are playing a video game that allows you the opportunity, no matter how great or difficult it may be to do so, to physically assault a woman. You are playing a game, despite the fact that doing such an act to a character on the game may not be in your best interest in "winning" the whole damn thing, that allows violent and sexual acts occur to women.

Women are oversexualized in every part of society. We can't catch a damn break. So, once again, you will not be able to convince me that this game has any merit at all. I'm sure visually it's incredible, graphics, whatever. But that's not what I care about. It's the subject matter, the plot, the purpose of the game that raises the feminist red flags.

I'm not talking about you folks, the ones defending the game, when I discuss the acceptance and cool factor of violence against women. I'm sure all of you are decent people who wouldn't commit such acts in real life. But the fact that such a game, with the bright shiny criminal life and the apparently insignificant ability to kill innocent people and have sex with women, even exists is grating on my nerves. It is offense to people from all walks of life, not only women. I can only speak as a woman because I am one.

Enjoy your game. My brother is playing it right now. All I can hope for is that someone takes note of what I've said and has a moment of, "Whoa, maybe she's on to something there. Maybe it's NOT just a video game. Maybe there is more to this than meets the eye. Maybe this kind of crap is a reflection upon our society and not merely a video game for entertainment purposes."

meaghan2k

Zlevee

Nobody ever agrgued that violence against women is "cool" or "acceptable" as you keep putting it. We're saying that's got nothing to do with the game. Try to understand this:

There business women, athletes, and all kinds of other female characters in the game, and just like all the male characters, they can die, because death is a part of this videogame.

See? not so hard to understand. Nobody is singled out. No encouragement to do anything to any particular "type". Except by the media.

Why not try reading that first post on Feministing?

Zlevee

It would be interesting."

Yes, it would be interesting, especially considering that a) San Andreas is not a city; it's a state and b) It's not a real place to begin with.

The *violence* is not sexualized; there's sexual content in the game. You also have relationships in the game, and you can press a button to kiss them and sometimes there will be offscreen sex during cut scenes. Earlier you asked if you can play a female in the game--in multiplayer mode you can, and you can kill just as many people as the male characters do. True, you can't pick up male prostitutes, but maybe you should write to Rockstar and demand that they program it into the GTA V. The murder of prostitutes in the game has nothing to do with sex. You don't need to have sex with them to kill them, and you don't need to kill them after you have sex with them. The prostitutes in GTA: San Andreas willingly get into CJ's car and instruct him to take them to a secluded area, and you can only pick them up in a closed car because there is no visible sex onscreen.

Wow, how many times have people here repeated this? And yet so many people are still "SEXUAL VIOLENCE SEXUAL VIOLENCE." There's violence in the game, and there's sexual content in the game, but they're not connected. People tend to kill hookers to get their money back, but it's just strategy. You don't *have* to do it.

vanka

MsMishi

meaghan2k

1) Look what you're doing -- at the very basic level, you're killing NPCs. That's it. NPCs. Which encompasses every ethnicity and gender.

2) The real answer to your question, why don't they incorporate more twisted aspects of reality -- it wouldn't be financially responsible.

If you were to include realistic depictions of rape, child molestion, murdering children, or anything that does push everything to the far extremes, the ESRB would give the game a AO rating (Adults-Only). No major retailer carries AO titles; it would be a financial disaster for developers and publishers.

Gundam_Halo

Gundam_Halo

meaghan2k

I will be judgmental, not judgemental (if we're making sly comments about spelling errors) as a feminist when it comes to this game. I do not need personal experience playing this game. I do not need to play it for hours on end to convince myself that the game isn't really that bad at all.

I think your argument is unreasonable, and you think mine is. That's fine. It's completely pointless trying to convince others why violence against women (difficult to find or not) is not acceptable most of the time. They just don't want to hear how they could possibly be part of it. Just because you haven't laid a hand on a woman doesn't mean you don't play a part in the continual abuse of women.

Is this video game created by criminals? So how do we know for sure it's depicting the true criminal world? The argument that this game is realistic is kind of shoddy.

meaghan2k

Death itself is a byproduct of sandbox and gameplay mechanic.

What isn't relevant is your style of 'well, why not have this or that or this' because all you're doing is adding more negative stigma. It doesn't prove anything.

What is bullshit is the stereotypes used in this thread about gamers in general. No one is trying to diminish the issue of violence against women. No one is trying to diminish your point by saying your opinion is just a hysterical women's opinion. But apparently we're just pre-adolescent boys who only jack off to these games and somehow cannot see beyond or own blood haze that will only lead to a mass uprising of violence and rape.

Gundam_Halo

Just about the only slightly reasonable argument you make is "if it's so minimal....why have it at all"?, and to that i say -- it's depicting a criminal world. The point of the game is to navigate the criminal world. There are prostitutes in the criminal world.

For the record, i don't think it's "hysterical women compalining about soemthign they don't know about" -- I think it's hysterical religious folks, cultural conservatives, and anyone else who cares to be judgemental about soemthign they have no or little personal experience with.

Zlevee

lisarae

I wish people would stop making this out to be "oh, it's just them hysterical women again, complaining about something they don't know about." It doesn't matter that gamers say they wouldn't do this in real life, it doesn't matter that you may only do it once or twice in a playing, it just doesn't matter. It shouldn't be there at all. If it is so minimal, as some people would have us believe, then why have it at all?

meaghan2k

A absurd slippery slope doesn't prove a point.

Gundam_Halo

Gundam_Halo

but sexual abuse is realistic too. and equally illegal. so why not have a game about molesting children? it wouldn't have to be that explicit to make its point. and it would be funny!

oeditrix

Thank you! This gets to the heart of the matter.

oeditrix

[www.news.com]

And a pertinent excerpt: Part of the problem, said Aaron Muszalski, a visual effects artist formerly with Industrial Light & Magic who teaches at the Academy of Art University in San Francisco, is that critics of games like those in the GTA series pass judgment on a very small sample of the whole game.

"When it was reported that, in earlier GTA games, it was possible to have sex with prostitutes and then beat them to death," Muszalski said, "people who lacked a grasp of 'sandbox' gameplay were likely to have interpreted that news to have meant that to 'win' at GTA, one had to perform such tasks, perhaps even that they were a recurring stage in the gameplay.

"Of course, such a perception is grossly flawed, as anyone who has actually played GTA...will quickly tell you," Muszalski continued. "Many of the aspects of GTA that were most covered in the press were things that, in the actual course of gameplay, many people would never need nor choose to do."

Zlevee

watereatsrock

emptee_head

They could have done without including this aspect of the game, sure, and it would still be greeted as an amazing game due to the in game interactions, radio stations, physics engine, environmental detail, etc. When you hear people talking about how awesome the game is, this is why, not because of the ancillary inclusion of prostitutes which you can hire (if it could be construed as rape it would never get past the ratings board).

sweetchuck

Zlevee

Zlevee

You called me out on my response, and you were right. There is onscreen sex in the game.

I want to answer the question you and Lulu are asking -- by starting off that I can't answer the way you both want it, because your questions are loaded. You use an example of being held down and forcibly raped as a way of exemplifying the way this game is, which it isn't. It isn't rape. I have to split hairs, because the example you give will give others here the idea that the game somehow gives you the control to hold a woman against her will and violate her. It does not.

No one is saying that violence against women is 'badass', and the game doesn't promote that either. Do women exist in this game? Yes. Because they exist as NPCs in a moving environment, just as men do. Missions/objectives/game structure does not revolve around killing women for the sake of killing women.

Gundam_Halo

Lulu82

Districtonian

hortense

meaghan2k

Realistic? Is that the world you live in? Is that a world you want to live in? If it is, I feel sorry for you.

I would love to do a survey of all the GTA players in this country. I imagine that the word "badass" or words "bad" and "ass", depending on how you write it, will come up. I would also like to ask the fine residents of San Andreas if they think this video game is a proper portrayal of their city, and if they're PROUD to have a game like that out there.

It would be interesting.

meaghan2k

linkura

Lulu82

linkura

Any kid with an older brother/sister will be able to get their hands on this shit. They'll smoke a bong with their buddies, kill some hookers and laugh about it... I'm not saying this game is going to turn impressionable boys into killers... But it might affect the way they see women, the way they see violence, the way they feel about sex. It's a terrible thing, and people need to be talking about it publicly.

And for the record, there are plenty of films in which girls get raped or killed - but I can't think of any films in which these acts aren't judged as monstrous. This game treats these crimes as if they were funny - a right laugh! And that's why it should be banned.

Lulu82

meaghan2k

linkura

@Zlevee: Just because a gamer won't pick up a prostitute doesn't make it right that there is even that ability to do so.

meaghan2k

meaghan2k

vanka

143 REGULAR violence!

But me no like sexual violence! Baaaad.

meaghan2k

And your repsonse to that other person is correct -- the violence against men and women in the game isn't on the same level --- far worse things are doen to the men.

Also (and unfortunately for the nth time), not many gamers will ever bother picking up a prostitue as it accomplishes nothing worthwhile in the game. They will however kill hordes of random criminals. They might even engage in some random things that do get a gamer some in-game benefit such as the rewards you get for taking accident victime to the hospital in a speedign ambulance.

Zlevee

vanka

linkura

meaghan2k

vanka

Gundam_Halo

I guess I must have just misread that part. Oh, and miswatched.

Sexual violence is not funny. Any arguments that came up throughout this thread stem from the fact that the women (and some men!) here do not agree with sexual violence, which this game does promote.

meaghan2k

vanka

It is important to criticize this game for the sexual violence it encourages. Sexual violence IS. NOT. FUNNY. There is no excuse for it. I don't give a flying fuck if every time you played this game an angel got wings, you can make a million arguments, but what it comes down to is that sexual violence is not humorous. At all.

meaghan2k

@meaghan2k: There is no rape in this game. There is no explicit onscreen sex either.

Women in this game exist as a NPC (non-playable template), the same as men. There are KILL WOMEN ONLY OH YEAH RAPE EM TOO missions. NPCs exist as a moving population, that's it.

@slightlyflawed: Yay for strawman arguments!

Gundam_Halo

I just can't believe that Jezebel is buying into the bullshit media hype. I thought you guys were better than that, but apparently not. Fail.

linkura

emptee_head

vanka

meaghan2k

I'm just trying to bring up an interesting point. Our society allows the manufacturing of games like this, ones that have such cruel violence against women (and yes, men, but not on the same level at all) but we do not see games of any other kind out there, simply because it would be deemed too "violent."

You know, maybe there would be less pissed off folks if the creators of GTA took out the rape ability.

meaghan2k

And not every girl who plays is going to be a stripper- What if a girl only sees herself as sexy if she is making out with another girl, or performing some egregious act? There is a spectrum.

While I am not an alcoholic druggie (ok, I'm a druggie) I do think that reading and watching traditional, male-created porn at a young age affected the way I have sex now, and the way I saw my body for at least fifteen years. Only recently have I been able to see myself in a more positive, sexual light, so things like this really hit a nerve.

And I make films, I love the alternate realities of games, movies and books, and I don't think they have to be healthy and wonderful utopias, but this is just way, way, way too far off the deep end for me.

slightlyflawed

Zlevee

There are no children in GTA at all.

vanka

No one is saying that the idea of hiring a hooker only to kill her after isn't deplorable. However, the game sets up a scenario: a criminal occupying the seedy underbelly of a city, which includes dealers, hookers, dancers, etc. As a criminal, you are given the option of killing any of these people, and to take away that ability, or any one of these types of people, lessens the reality of the world in which the game takes place.

That said, I'd rather play Okami.

sweetchuck

If you are on this site you care about women's issues. My 21 year old neighbor just decided to masturbate in his window to get my attention, which is super disturbing and violating. This dude has some major machismo issues. There are a lot of things out there giving people mixed signals about sex, and I firmly believe things like this are one of them. Young women don't even stand a chance anymore. I can't imagine being 15 and having my boyfriend and his friends play this game and get all jacked up with the slap a stripper or whatever.

And if you are arguing about whether or not people's parents are buying this or what its rated you are MISSING THE POINT entirely. I just don't see how we are packaging murdering a prostitute as "fun and entertaining."

I really want one of those games where I lynch a darkie or kill your family dog or play Hitler and go wacky with genocide! God, that sounds like a total fucking blast. That would just TOTALLY INVIGORATE MY DAY.

I don't mean to be aggro, I'm sure you are a cool woman, but this makes me incredibly fucking sad.

slightlyflawed

Can someone please answer this? Because the constant "freedom of speech! don't buy it for your kids! blame the parents!" isn't answering shit. WHY is it okay for a video game company to create such lewd and awful games like this? Why can everyone turn a blind eye to the female characters in this game?

meaghan2k

Zlevee

There are lots of explicit video games. In God of War you have threesomes where how fast you move the joystick actually controls how intense the sex is, and it doesn't even pertain to the plot or get you any kinds of points. The GTA franchise just gets the most attention.

Anyway, my friend just texted me cause he bought GTA IV and i am super excited to play it!!!

vanka

meaghan2k

meaghan2k

slightlyflawed

No one ever really bothers with picking up prostitutes in the game anyway. You'll make more money and gain more health by killing drug dealers and eating at fast food restaurants, and blowing shit up is more amusing.

vanka

Pay and Spray

1. A term used to describe a hand job performed by a prostiute.
2. A term used to describe cumming on the face of a girl you have paid.
He only had 30 min for lunch so he went for a quick pay and spray.

[www.urbandictionary.com]

LipstickLibrarian

slightlyflawed

And do you know what? I've been playing GTA: San Andreas since it came out in Fall 2004, and so have all my friends. There are few games which can keep people consistently entertained for over three years. It has really well-executed open-ended gameplay. The release of GTA IV has been a date etched on our mind like Christmas or our birthdays.

It's a game centered around killing people to take their money and stealing cars, hence the title of the franchise. If that bothers you, don't buy it and don't play it. But I will happily be using my rocket launcher to cause explosions and stealing fancy cars to hide them in my garage so i can go over hidden jumps really fast to get money for tricks and spawning jet packs to get a nice aerial view of Liberty City.

vanka

slightlyflawed

kityglitr

Then again, I tend to feel revolted when I see a rape scene and have been known to turn the tv off during such scenes. Not sure I'd find humor in killing a hooker, unless she were a zombie trying to eat my flesh.

Xavoc

Gundam_Halo

Video games are not the devil. They, like horror and porn movies, let you safely express impulses (sex & violence) that we (society) have deemed dangerous. GTA is like a one stop shop for the repressed id of the 14 year old American boy. Paging Dr. Freud!!

nanner36

Nobody is arguing about the seriousness of violence against women, but what saying, or rather linking to GTA, is wrong. The subject wasn't made into a game; women exist as a template in a 3d environment. Men exist as a template in a 3d environment. A population exists in a 3d environment. THAT'S IT.

As for your second question, could there be a measurable effect of GTA in real violence? It's a possibility. But everyone here has already made the conclusion that there is, which is the wrong way to go about this. They're making a serious judgment on face value based off of nothing.

Go to GamePolitics, look up the reported FBI statistics of crime rates vs. GTA title releases, the recently released Byron report, the recently released Grand Theft Childhood, all of this goes into the subject more in-depth than the presumptions thrown around in this thread.

Gundam_Halo

hollowdog

Anyhoodle, hubby and I have been fighting about this stupid game for two days. Thanks, Rockstar, for the marital discord. He's dying to play the game and I don't want my hard earned paycheck going to support the success of the game.

Seriously, why is it so hard to understand that fucking and then killing hookers in a virtual world might be kind of offensive?

TheBumbler

sadiehawkins

Considering the content of GTA, my assumption is understandable.

My apologies, NewBunny.

LipstickLibrarian

Could it be possibly that video games like these are part of the problem? No one said one thing is the cause for it all...

sadiehawkins

Like others have said, the revolutionary thing about these games is that you have almost unlimited freedom within the game structure to do what you want. Want to follow the storyline? Go ahead. Want to blow up cars with you in them? Feel free. Want to pretend to be a taxi driver? By all means.

Nobody seems to be freaking out that there are side missions in these games where you can drive an ambulance and pick up injured people and drive them to the hospital.

Smackdown

Women (and sex workers) deserve protection from this. Whether the repercussions just desensitize the player or get the player pumped up for the "real thing"-- either way, it's destructive for women guaranteed. Think of the torment this gives to women who have been sexually assaulted and/or have lost a female family member in a violent crime.

sadiehawkins

If your experience with any of the GTA games is only with assuming that, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Gundam_Halo

The prostitute model is a template, just as the fat white guy is a template in the game. There isn't any WHITE GUY HATE SPEECH protocol in the game either.

Gundam_Halo

VenitiaAmphilochus

thepowertokill

minesbigger

GTA4 is great, San Andreas was great, Vice City was great, GTA3 was great. GTA4's protagonist is a great character (Nico, balkan refugee).

I can't believe the comments I'm reading here. Go to GamePolitics, read up on the actual statistics of crime rate vs. GTA title releases, go look up the average age of players (and gamers in general), because the shit that's being spewed here is way off.

GTA's main draw, what was originally excellently done by GTA3, was sandbox gaming. The concept, execution, and creativity based off this style of gameplay was more important than anything you girls are hating on.

Gundam_Halo

minesbigger

This reinforces my earlier points.

Zlevee

sweetchuck

MsMichelle

Okay, it looks like everybody hasn't really played through the whole game before and I think people are too quick to label it. "Get if off the shelves" will help nothing when you have 80% of other games that share violence (and also nudity) also. To get a run down of this game: you DO NOT have to kill prostitutes, nor are you forced to have sex with them. The choice is up to the person playing the game. For the plot of the game (if there is one) YOU DO have to kill people. Why? b/c you play a criminal. BUT, the entertaining things you CAN do in the game (that I particularly like) are the free roaming. You buy outfits for your character, go on dates, eat at restaurants, fly planes, swim, listen to the radio etc. And I think that's most of the appeal of this game, is that you can basically live in this virtual world.

Now, considering the people who buy this game: Do they like killing, violence, sex, and plan on carrying these acts out in the real world? I don't thing so. I guess it depends on the person who buys this game and their mentality. I'm over 21 and bought this game. I know real from fiction but I can't say the same for a 14 yr old that get their hands on this game.

Should be censored? No. Unless they have a censored one for 18 an under and non censored for adults.

And does this game discriminate against women? Not at all, but then again its up to the person playing if they want kill only women in the game or just leave them alone.

So yeah, for me I only play it for the lolz. It could be the same for people who play Tomb Raider just to get a laugh at throwing Laura Croft off a cliff and hit the ground making that loud crunchy cheetoh sound.

MsMichelle

That's just vile, and I hope to never again run across that phrase, especially on Jezebel.

LipstickLibrarian

At least in Bully, the tamer version of GTA that takes place in a boarding school, if you harass the girls you go straight to the principal's office. There ain't no runnin' away, folks.

Bekanator

Try actually observing or *gasp* playing the thing before denouncing it.

Zlevee

i have to disagree. censorship is not really a black and white issue.

for example, we allow racist literature to be distributed in the name of free speech. but only a very, very small percentage of people purchase these materials. if nazi or KKK propaganda was available on a huge scale - available in in Barnes and Nobles, example - and was on the weekly best sellers list. what if, as a result, 1.3 million jewish people were abused in just one year? or 25% of black people raped?

do you think the free speech/censorship argument would be narrowed?

for most people, the answer would probably be yes.

at some point, when hate or violent speech is directed at a specific group of people through "legitimate" media, the government is obliged to protect minorities, even if it comes at a cost of some speech.

1.3 million women will be abused in this country this year. 25% of women will be raped over a lifetime. why is it that we stil scream that there is no connection between violent images that degrade/abuse/or kill women in video games and the violent degredation, abuse, and murder of women in real life?

GretchenWeiners

sixseeds