<![CDATA[ - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[ - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Doriane: so you're telling me that you haven't improved, changed, learned lessons since you were 12? And don't say that it's different because you didn't make the same fucked up mistake that these jerks did. They still have every right to grow up and learn from this terrible thing they've done. Particularly in these situations where they are all ganging up on one girl. Do you not think that they were all terrified that if they said "no I'm not going to do this, this is wrong" that they wouldn't be next to get their face beat to a pulp?

Kids are not adults. They're barely even people for god's sake! They have a whole different set of processes going on there, and it's nasty business, but I don't think we can hold them liable for their actions on the same terms as adults. Consequences, yes. Therapy, yes. But trying them as adults and ultimately putting them in prison with serious violent offenders where they can learn to be better criminals and ruin their lives?

no.

sublimelazy

]]> <![CDATA[]]> When I was in jr. high and high school (twenty years ago) people were beating the crap out of each other all the bloody time. And we were the rich kids. I got two teeth knocked out by a girl who insisted that I was a raging lesbian. (of course it didn't help that when she called me a fucking dyke I told her to quit asking me out she wasn't my type) but still, kids were terribly mean when I was growing up.

Also I think it's funny that every generation since the beginning of time has said that the newer generation were somehow worse. Even Confucius wrote his analects about a time that was several hundred years past becuase he believed that the people in the past ran their society so much better than the chaotic times in which he endured.

sublimelazy

]]> <![CDATA[]]> When I was in elementary and middle school (not that long ago, I'm class of 98), girls were mean, and I was picked on a lot, but it was all gossip. No one ever raised a hand against someone else. I wonder, though, if this is because I went to the school with the rich kids. In high school, there were lots of girl-on-girl fights, and they always involved less intelligent girls from poorer families. Is there a correlation?

dictator4life1

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Well, I'm sure if they had smoked a little weed off school grounds instead of jumping someone they would have been suspended. I love the priorities of these school administrators.

commie_pinko

]]> <![CDATA[]]> This makes me glad I've only ever known nerds. All the aggression was directed towards essay-writing and dissecting pigs.

As for charging these kids as adults... Does any one really believe that any child over six doesn't understand that hitting is bad? That ganging up on a classmate and beating the shit out of her until she bleeds out of her ear isn't the way you ought to be carrying on?

When I was twelve, there is no way in hell I would have done something like that to any one, unless they'd started hitting me first and it was completely within the spur of the moment. Yes, kids can have trouble controlling their emotions, and that's why they can get in a lot of fights. But we're talking about luring some one to a parking lot. And bringing a video camera. Sure, it's fucked, but it takes awareness.

Some one who thinks it's funny to post a video of their classmate being beaten up at twelve or fifteen isn't going to improve much by the time they're thirty, unless there is a real-life consequence.

Doriane

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Triphena: Yeah, that's the problem I have with the fights kids get into now. From elementary to high school, whenever anybody had a problem with anybody, those two duked it out at the bus stop. If you called your friends to help you that made it worse, because everybody saw it as serious weakness - you can't fight your own fights, you need your friends to fight for you?

I don't know why ganging up on kids is cool now.

wedropscience

]]> <![CDATA[]]> The little twits should be punished JUST for being stupid....however it is hard to really blame them as it is obvious from the superintendent that they possibly cannot be getting a decent education.

TerriShirley

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @NefariousNewt: And that's without including all the violent, sociopath parents out there. It's not that hard to breed, and these fuckers are not gonna change because they have. The result are these abusive, unempathetic kids.

Brigit

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ThePlasticMac: I just read about the Shanda murder and I can not believe this occurred over time and NOT ONE girl did anything to stop this disgusting act!

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @rowingrowingrowing: Yeah, all those damn celebrity reality shows (I try not to watch many, but every once in a while they can be funny!) but I always notice they usually have badly behaved or completely un-house trained pets. Then their children get arrested for drunk driving or drugs. Makes sense.

farmersdaughter

]]> <![CDATA[]]> I can only imagine the conversation.

"Like, OMG guys, my mom was like watching the news and they were these girls who beat up this loser and like, FILMED IT. Isn't that such an awesome idea??"
"YES! Wait, what happened to those girls?"
"I don't know, I was too busy putting on my fake eyelashes to pay attention anymore."

They're not going to be charged as adults. I've always said that middle school children were more vicious than high school kids, at least in my experience. Ugh.



dummyfakeroller

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @BeckySharper: But shouldn't he have the authority to suspect children who end up on the wrong side of the law? If they're dangerous in a mall parking lot, then they have the potential to be dangerous in the school parking lot.

PhillyLass

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @subliminalthumb: No... that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the behavior has changed because there's a whole new motive for it. I do agree that some has stayed the same, but I think the bar has also been raised substantially.

Sassette

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @farmersdaughter: I know it sounds ridiculously over simplified, but there is a distinct corollary between terrible dog owners and truly crappy parents who raise horrific little children.

Have any of you Jezebel parents had to deal with the parents of bullies? I am curious (not being a breeder myself) who these "adults" are.

rowingrowingrowing

]]> <![CDATA[]]> I moved to Clarksville from LA when I was those girls' ages (seventh grade in the early 90s) and it scared the everliving shit out of me. I showed up in my Doc Martens listening to Bad Religion and I can honestly say I had no friends until the summer. I was the only kid in my class that got straight A's the first quarter I attended school there, which obviously helped the cause. I think there were at least three girls when I was in the eighth grade (!!!) who had babies and there were endless stories of kids doing crack with people's washed up parents/stepparents. Needless to say, I didn't stick around the public school scene for any longer than I had to and hi-tailed it across the river to Bardstown Road where the cool kids hung out in Louisville.

Black Velveteen

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Bottom line if parents were raising their kids right and being held accountable for the way they act then alot of this would not be happening. Parents don't care in alot of these cases. They make excuses for these kids, there is not excuse for this behavior...

justthinking

]]> <![CDATA[]]> look, maybe things are different elsewhere, but in my small town, which i consider to be a typical small town, the only people who didn't leave home after high school were the popular students whose lives peaked in high school. they were the mean girls and asshole boys who ruled the school. and guess what? now they teach at the same schools. nothing's going to get done until the teachers' lounge matures past the high school stage.

kittenfoo

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @BadenBaden: that's true. i honestly don't think i had a firm grasp on the notion of my future until i was 20 or 21. i'm just damn lucky that somehow i had managed to avoid all the horrible pratfalls with drugs and crime that some kids get involved with, and was able to go to college and get started on a path to have a future. when you're 16 and bored and stoned, robbing a gas station on a friday night somehow seems like just something to do, which is what some of my friends did. i'm just lucky i wasn't in the car.

southernbitch

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @rowingrowingrowing: There should be a license to be a parent. So many people have said it and seriously its true. You make a good point, because if you can't housetrain a puppy, how can you create a functional member of society?

farmersdaughter

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @subliminalthumb: I think thats the key, totally: perspective. Teenagers are sometimes so locked into their teenage worlds, they don't realize that it's a temporary state and things will get better.

BadenBaden

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Fucking darwinism at work. They filmed themselves and then posted it on the internet. Wow. Talk about building a perfect case for the prosecutors. I hope these little psychopathic narcissists are punished accordingly.

I just have to add, when my dog behaved behaved badly as a puppy, she was reprimanded, corrected, and then praised for making good behavioral choices. She gets exercise, structure, discipline, and (lastly) affection. Because of this, I have a wonderful adult dog who is welcomed warmly everywhere we go.

I know dogs aren't children, but when we have discussions about pack mentality, I can't help but think of her. Because of her upbringing, she is a polite pack member. How fucking hard is it to do the same thing with little people? Who are the parents in these stories? I apologize for the vitriol, but bullying (esp. between girls) pushes all of my misanthropic buttons.

rowingrowingrowing

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @subliminalthumb: @Sassette: There is a different (heightened) level of narcisissm today, for sure. I will try and find the studies, but essentially teenagers today think they deserve to be famous, and media outlets make it all too easy to do so. Bullying isn't new, of course, but the idea that we all deserve to be known and it's funny to post a graphic video of your guilt certainly is. Whether it's because that's the media that's now available or whether it's because the concept of kids and bullying has changed is still up for debate (and I dont think it can actually be answered).

We didn't even have slam books in high school (class of 97 here). I think part of what's missing in kids today (shakes fist) is a lack of shame. Why on earth would you want someone to see you at your worst? Isn't there some little bit of these kids that thinks, I would never want so-and-so to see me this way, so maybe I should consider my actions.

BadenBaden

]]> <![CDATA[]]> How many kids have to die before bullying is taken seriously?

What, and implicate careless, selfish, immature parents in the callous narcissism they passed on to their kids?

Until these parents grow up enough to face their fatal flaws, neither they nor anyone else will force their precious little snowflakes to confront the cruelty of their actions. It's too much like looking in a mirror.

sixseeds

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Sassette:

so what you are actually saying is that because of the internet the same things that happened when you were a child is now publicly broadcast in ways that it couldn't have when you were a kid.

In other words, the behavior hasn't changed-the means of getting attention for the behavior has.

sublimelazy

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Don't you think we fail them if we don't acknowledge how SERIOUS childhood is, and how horrible it can be? Do we really think it's great to be a kid, when everything is new and scary and awkward, and nothing makes sense and you have hormones raging through you and you experience the most intense highs and lows and no one absolutely no one knows what you're going through, not even you? And fitting in is impossible, but you try desperately to anyway? And you have to wear the right clothes, you have to listen to the right music, read the right books, or not read at all (smart girls are still not popular, are they?)-and the messages on how to fit in come at you from every direction but somehow you just can't get it right....

do you really think that childhood is a good place to be? And do you really think we are doing anything to help children if we don't acknowledge how shitty it is to be where they are? and take them seriously?

So we fail them once, and then we want to throw them into prison as though they are adults? Make them hang out with actual violent offenders?

I don't think the girls who did these things should get away with what they did, I believe in consequences-but trying them as adults when they don't know their heads from their asses (which is by nature what puberty is all about)-I don't think that's fair.

sublimelazy

]]> <![CDATA[]]> I would have been WAY too scared to do anything even remotely approximating this behavior! I was scared when I did stuff that I look back on now and laugh about because it was so damn innocent. WTF has happened since the '80s?? (AM I REALLY THAT OLD???!!!)

And whoever said that they were glad that the internet didn't exist while they were growing up is dead on! Teenage angst is hard enough, and some there are peers who are just brutal (literally these days). I can see how some more fragile kids get to the point of suicide when the bullying is no longer just a few words in a hallway or after school, but words/videos/rumors/whatever posted for the world to see. At that age, you have no concept of how insignificant those occurrences are in the grand scheme of things, and can't put that stuff into perspective.

Who's to blame for this? The parents: 100%. Li'l Jennie can do no wrong, and her parents take her side against anyone who dares to suggest otherwise. The "my kid can do no wrong" attitude is often accompanied by "it's just kids being kids," which is also a load of crap.

Loki_Monster

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @subliminalthumb: I have no illusions about my youth being rosey and perfect. Further up in this same thread I mentioned how I got the shit beat out of me by a street gang.

My point was that I think kids today are doing things for different reasons - there's a level of narcissism to it that I don't think was there before, precisely because of the internet and the way the media covers things (as you said).

It's easier to bully a kid now with the anonimity afforded by the internet, and kids are raised to believe that everyone has a chance to be famous if their behavior is extreme enough. Together, those are a dangerous combination.

So yeah, I think the situation is worse because the environment in which kids are immersed before they fully understand the consequences of their actions is worse. But I definitely don't deny that similar problems existed already. They did.

Sassette

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @NefariousNewt: "Try teaching non-violence in a world of Jerry Springer, Ultimate Fighting, NFL Football, and Jackass. Unfortunately, we're letting the media raise out children."
Quoted for truth. Parenting in these times is more difficult than when I was raising my kids 20 years ago...and my big complaint was hearing my 8 year old singing Alanis Morrisette "Does she go down on you in a theatre?"

CrankyOldBroad

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @BeckySharper: Unfortunately, that is very true. But in some districts, the school can suspend/exspell the girls once they have been charged with a crime.

ceejeemcbeegee

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @subliminalthumb: The way it's going with current teenagers, we may have no choice but to charge them as adults.I don't see it as being barbaric though.

tranquilmademoiselle

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ThePlasticMac: Aww, thank you for the hugs. Yeah, all of this stuff makes me kinda sick. I mean, I remember having a few hair-pulling fights in middle/high school, but I would like to think no one I knew would have arranged and filmed a beat down on another girl. I would like to think it, but in reality I think the only novel part of these beatings is recording and putting them on the internet. So so so sad, and I want to say these girls should be punished to the full extent of the law, but I still believe they should be tried as juveniles. 12-14 seems awful young for the adult correctional system.

farmersdaughter

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @subliminalthumb: i have a lot of friends who are criminal justice advocates, so i've absorbed a lot of information about how the system currently works and what some of the major issues are.

southernbitch

]]> <![CDATA[]]> When I was in junior high, there was a crazy theater girl who was "bullied". I went to a VERY SMALL Christian private school and there were about 35+ girls in my grade in 8th grade and this chick who was "bullied" was annoying and it got to the point where we would not include her in anything because it was grating to be around her. I guess during gym class a bunch of got into an altercation with her after she hit another girl during a bball game. Our counselors were fed up, since we were supposed to be one big happy family, and had an intervention. At the time, we made fun of it, until we heard about this girl's life and why she was so "weird". Let's just say her family life mirrors the Lohans and her mother sent her to therapy by age 5 because she couldn't make friends. It was an amazing experience and these counseling groups were something my public high school had to to mediate problems. It helps you put things into perspective and understand where the other behavior is coming from. And it also made me never want to harass or fight with anyone again.

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Sassette:

I disagree. What has made it seem worse is the media attention we give to them, when in fact it hasn't changed at all.

It's just more noticed. It's like the statistics on violence v. the media coverage of violence. I don't have contemporary statistics, but I remember in the mid-1990's there were stories about how violence was worse then it had ever been blah blah blah,but the numbers actually showed that violence was down significantly. I think bullying is probably the same thing, the media, and the internet love it, and we all act shocked and say things like "childhood wasn't like that when I was in the throes of it", "When I was growing up we didn't do the kind of damage that they do now"...

But then some of us remember how crappy that whole growing up experience was, and how incredibly mean and vicious other kids were. The difference is that instead of the harassing phone calls being kept between the punks making them and the poor kid being completely abused by class-mates-rather than posted on the internet. We didn't have digicams and cameraphones. But we still did the same thing.

Remember freshman hazing? Everyone laughed at the pushing the peanut on the floor down the hall with your mouth?

I could go on...

Don't think a thing has changed. Don't think it's any different.

I don't think that we should sit back and do nothing, but I think we should not freak out about it like childhood is somehow more violent and disturbing then it used to be.

sublimelazy

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ThePlasticMac: Obviously, ANYONE performing acts of that nature would be absolutely unthinkable, but kids especially. I mean, I can't imagine even fathoming something like that at 13 or 14 years old.

ThePlasticMac

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Muffyn: I know how you feel. Crime library is one of my favorite sites for work-time perusing, but happening upon the Sharer atrocity, as well as Albert Fish (a child-devouring cannibal) made me feel so physically - and mentally - ill. Just...KIDS!...doing things of that nature!...I have to push it away from my brain.

ThePlasticMac

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @subliminalthumb: Yes, I think the disconnect between actions and morality has gotten worse.

TheFormerJuneBronson

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @farmersdaughter:
Jeebus. Aw, that's so sad. *hugs*
I lived a bit further south in KY when it happened, but I can imagine being so frightened. It gives me nightmares now, as an adult.



ThePlasticMac

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @southernbitch:

That's great. Thanks. I am vehemently against children being charged as adults, I think it's barbaric, but I've never tried to actually make an argument. You make some great points that I hadn't thought of.

sublimelazy

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @subliminalthumb: I think that it's gotten worse in terms of the mentality, yes. There have always been bullies, and there have always been fights, but there hasn't always been the promise and desire of fame that I think drives a lot of the stupid crap kids do today.

Our society has become one in which everyone feels entitled to his or her fifteen minutes of fame, no matter what they have to do to earn it. It's why "Girls Gone Wild" and "The Real World" still manage to keep trucking. Things I never would have conceived of in a million years are suddenly acceptable - as long as it gets you on television.

Sassette

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Muffyn: And I remember that happening. I didn't know the details (thanks mom and dad) but remember there being a big fuss about it and my parents being upset. oh shit fuck. I need a drink. Not kidding.

Muffyn

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @subliminalthumb: Not really. Considering how they were apparently dumb enough to fail to understand the possible consequences now facing those who inspired them, they're obviously a little slow. Add to that the fact that it doesn't seem the girl who was attacked was seriously injured, charging them as adults is probably excessive. That said, I do think they should actually serve some time in a juvenile facility, if for no other reason than to let them know their actions have serious consequences (and also to hopefully keep them out of the public scene until people forget about their temporary 'fame').

The Boyg

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ThePlasticMac: This is heartbreaking. I dont know what I would do if one of my kids ever did this to someone else. So sad.

VPea

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ThePlasticMac: shit. I read that link (well, I read most of it and then skimmed the rest) but omfg. I've never crawled under my desk and bawled like that before. I'm so upset and upset and I have no words left.

Muffyn

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ThePlasticMac: Yeah, I remember when it happened - I was six, and didn't understand and was terrified the mean girls would come set me on fire. My dad's friend was the State Police investigator and still has nightmares about it. And no I haven't been there, I guess I'll have to check out Clarksville Seafood this weekend, it sounds awesome!

farmersdaughter

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @subliminalthumb: i don't. i firmly believe that unless we're going to lower the voting age, the drinking age, the age which you can purchase porn or cigarettes, or even the age at which childen under the care of the state leave state custody, then you cannot have a legal standing on how you determine what constitutes an "adult". you cannot base who is an adult and who is not solely on the severity of their crime- it's too open to personal interpretation of the very few (prosecutor, da's, whomever) who can base how a case is being prosecuted based on being swayed by public opinion and outrage at a certain case. it's unfair and often you'll find out that the majority of kids who are tried as adults are minorities and come from low-class background. i think that any offender, no matter what, who commits the offense before the ages of 18 or 21 should be put into some sort of rehabilitation or diversionary program.

southernbitch

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @farmersdaughter:
You're right, it's def creepy. I first read about it several months ago...it's always very disturbing that such terrible things happen just outside one's front door.

And yes, I love Rocky's! Have you ever been to Clarksville Seafood? I just sampled their fried hamburger this past weeked -- outrageously delicious!


ThePlasticMac

]]> <![CDATA[]]> also do you all really think that it's gotten WORSE than it was when we were kids?

really?

sublimelazy

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Plum-Pie: that kind of risk-taking and herd mentality is evident in such things as the rwandan genocide and pretty much any time that there is an in-goup/out-group social dynamic. once a group begins to get quasi-militant, it all spirals out of control rather quickly. there's actually a great (if disturboining) book called "ordinary men" that is all about the average german citizens who worked with the ss to corrall jews and clean out villages. it interviews the participants extensively, and it really is amazing how many of them reported that they knew that waht they were doing was wrong and abhorrent, but that they felt that they could not resist the situation due to the danger that it posed them- not just from the ss, but their peers who would turn on them. it's truly a spooky read.

southernbitch

]]> <![CDATA[]]> This Pisses me off so much, that parents are quick to blame their kids actions on movies, video games, shows etc. but never themselves. Look, maybe you need to take a step back and think about when the last time you ever had a "serious talk" with your child about important issues then maybe you can prevent shit like this from happening.

MsMichelle

]]> <![CDATA[]]> DO you all think these girls should be tried as adults?

sublimelazy

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Huh, well the next generation is just truly amazing. I'm sure that I learned what consequences were by their age. And while the internet wasn't really as big as it is now, I'm pretty sure I was aware of the dangers of CREATING the evidence for the police. I mean, really how stupid can you be. If you are that stupid, you deserve to be caught. I'm with the others on this one, what exactly were they inspired by?
Truth of the matter is that while young people can be "inspired" by media coverage of violent acts, if you give kids access to a weapon or means for violence they will always use it. Banning media coverage of school shootings isn't the answer. Banning guns is. One only has to look at the crime rates of countries that have gun control to notice that our access to weapons makes us a violent society. It's one thing to play a violent video game, its another to have the means to re-create it in your own home.


ekaterinaballerina

]]> <![CDATA[]]> once again, i am insanely happy that i went through middle school and high school before the internet was such a huge part of how kids interact and gather information about behavior, social interation, ideas, etc, etc. and once again, i am resolved that if i ever decide to spawn, i am not going to have a fucking television or internet in the house. shit be toxic to kids brains.

southernbitch

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ThePlasticMac: Thanks - don't mean to be a threadjack, but it has a lot of parallels to the issues with girls in packs that we see today, and I thought of it right away. Read at your own risk though, its creepy.

also, you a fan of Rocky's on the River? Amazing pizza.

farmersdaughter

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Obama Mama Drama: In fact, there is a medical name for the psychological process which leads groups to take risks which the members wouldn't take individually. (Can't find it on Google though - sorry...)

Plum-Pie

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ThePlasticMac:
However, for anyone who frequents Clarksville, this shouldn't be too surprising (but definitely still tragic and depressing).


ThePlasticMac

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Obama Mama Drama: Well, in the case I was talking about, at least one of the girls really was a psychopath. The others didn't know the extent of what was going to happen, thought they would scare the girl and that would be the end, and things just kept getting deeper and deeper throughout the night. But thats the same pack mentality, they didn't want to rat on anyone and they wanted to be in the group. It's disgusting, but I think the idea of videotaping and putting acts like these on the internet is only showing something that was already happening. Now they just end up on CNN after the principals office or jail.

farmersdaughter

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @farmersdaughter:
Here's a good article detailing the Shanda Sharer tragedy, for anyone who's interested: [www.crimelibrary.com]

That - coupled with this new horror - is especially chilling for me, as I live just across the river, in Louisville KY and frequent Clarksville for its delicious seafood and thrift stores.


ThePlasticMac

]]> <![CDATA[]]> The attitude that bullying is just something that you have to put up with, that people should be able to "take it" ("like a man" is often implied when it's boys being bullied), that it's just a rite of passage makes me so angry.

Bullying is damaging to both the bully and the bullied. With any luck, I'm going to be middle school teacher, and I am going to put the SMACK down on bullying. I want bullying to be as socially unacceptable as wetting your pants. In fact, less acceptable, you can always control whether or not you bully.

exelizabeth

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Triphena: Not even close. My high school had this sort of thing happen all the time. I got the shit kicked out of me by three girls who attacked me from behind in 9th grade.

That said, this story has only reinforced my belief that kids today are seven kids of fucked.

Sassette

]]> <![CDATA[]]> It's called the brutalization effect, which is more alligned with the death penalty (when a high profile killer is finally put to death, murder rates shortly after actually increase). People see all the attention and hoopla surrounding those involved with situations like this, so maybe in a bid to get some pathetic 15 minutes of infamy they take part in this behavior. It is only going to get worse and more extreme.

AnderBobo

]]> <![CDATA[]]> The superintendent really spoke out of turn and that pisses me off. This poor girl has a right to feel safe on school grounds and to say he does not plan to take any disciplinary action is in disagreement with the school's own disciplinary code (see page 10).

Devonna

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @farmersdaughter: Judge Judy discussed a case where these chicks on a subway line here in NYC killed a girl for no reason. They stole her earrings and then beat her to death. They are now serving felony jail time for it. She discussed the story in relation to a case in her courtroom where a girl sued a classmate after a "planned" beating from her and a group of friends. And Judy blamed it on the "pack mentality". Kids do not do these type of things voluntarily by themselves unless they are psychopaths. But when they are in groups and feeding off each others energies, they pounce. Now they have instant fame going hand and hand with this.

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @BeckySharper: Exactly. And the way VH1 promoted the reunion episode -- with the fight as the enticing, exciting banner attraction -- says a lot.

@Obama Mama Drama: Right there with you. Daisy may be a total train wreck, but she didn't deserve that. NO ONE deserves that.

ImTheBobblehead

]]> <![CDATA[]]> It's the same way that people are "inspired" to do school shootings. It's a deadly cocktail. The media puts it on blast everywhere and all the people who are feeling alientated and angry can identify with the aggressors and want to act out in the same way. The media sort of glorifies the situation.

ULookinAtMyJunk is the Hate Mitigator

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @NefariousNewt: And you know what makes me the most upset? No matter HOW good we raise our children, all that is doing is protecting them from being the abusers. It will be no consolation to me when my daughter is gang-beat within an inch of her life that she wasn't violent.
Didn't anyone else learn (the people reading this probably aren't the problem though) that the media is "evil"? Dammit.
*so raging right now.



Muffyn

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @farmersdaughter: Oops, there isn't much on Google on Shanda anymore, which is a good thing, but as an overview, 4 girls aged 14-16 killed a 12 year old - set her on fire, drove around with her in the car trunk, etc. Really really really disturbing.

farmersdaughter

]]> <![CDATA[]]> I think teaching kids their actions have consequences is a positive thing. To pick a topical example, if you didn't think your actions had consequences, why would you vote?

Plum-Pie

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @BeckyIva: You have to teach your child to be instinctively distrustful until they can verify that something is what it is. The problem as I see it is that our natural survival reactions are being dulled by a life of comfort and leisure. When mankind was fighting for survival, you couldn't afford to be unaware of your surroundings. Now, children are not being taught to be wary and to top it off, their natural instinct for caution is not being nurtured. Result: kids disappearing. Kids doing drugs. Kids getting into situations that their instincts might have kept them out of.

That's why I think it's important to take kids into nature. I grew up in Vermont and spent an awful lot of time roaming the forest, learning to be cautious and careful, learning to be observant of the signs of danger or imminent changes in my environment that could cause trouble. While not every child can be exposed to that kind of environment, it's important for parents to teach their kids the same kind of lessons in any setting.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Sure wish kids could be original but they aren't. If people were doing forced bikini waxing they'd do that too. Remember the days when posting stuff on the internet meant you were a nerd?

sugarbear11

]]> <![CDATA[]]> All I can really say is, this is about 20 miles from my hometown, and I'm not surprised. Google "shanda sherer" and you'll know why.

farmersdaughter

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Talk about bullying...when I was 12 a bully set my hair on fire while we were riding home on the school bus. Another time, a firend of mine and I were riding home on our bikes when a group of oder teens stopped us and started hitting my best friend in the head...in a neighbourhood full of people!

anastasia beaverhousen

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @functional_alcoholic: There was a time when teenage boys or girls could actually duke it out in a fair fight. I mixed it up with my share of bullies.

But a short couple of years after I graduated HS, a friend's little sister had a disagreement over a boy with one of her classmates. The other girl rounded up a posse and beat her to the point where she had to be hospitalized.

Now they are videotaping their criminal behavior and posting it for the world to see?

Unbelievable.

asylum

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @gold_gato: I'm secretly STILL into Barbies

AnderBobo

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ineffable.me: Yeah, but I think in this case, it could be good for those kids who are slow on the uptake. I mean, all kids do things they may regret later, it would really suck to take some pictures (even, um, nonviolent ones) and have them haunt you 10 years later, still.

bananaballs

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ineffable.me: ZOMG, you're right! And how awesome would it be if the same was true of men? Like if Daniel Craig and Gerard Butler were having a fight, and then all the sudden they began kissing and then I had to get in the middle...

BeckySharper

]]> <![CDATA[]]> This is not a new phenomenon. Have you heard of Reena Virk? She was murdered by bullies.

[en.wikipedia.org]

anastasia beaverhousen

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Muffyn: Try teaching non-violence in a world of Jerry Springer, Ultimate Fighting, NFL Football, and Jackass. The thing that makes our country great (freedom of expression) is also the thing that dooms us to destruction unless we as parents take charge and teach our children their civil and social responsibilities. Unfortunately, we're letting the media raise out children.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Triphena: Sports teams are a little different because they're extracurricular, and the coaches have a lot of leeway when it comes to who's on the team or not. But a school system can't kick a kid out of school just because they learn that a kid did something bad in their off-hours.

They can, however, suspend a kid from school if they're under criminal investigation. Once the police are involved, it's a whole different ballgame, which is why parents should always report violent bullying/sexual harrassment to the police if they want the school to act.

(the reason I know too much about this: my mother was an elementary school principal for 15 years and is now a school superintendant. And she always calls the police herself and reports problems when she needs the authority to suspend trouble-makers.)

BeckySharper

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ImTheBobblehead: I really felt for Daisy last night, since the fight was totally unprevocked and no one seemed to want to step in.

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Triphena: That's what I'm thinking. Wild parties and getting busted had reprecussions at my school. Why is this school different?

LoveNoelG

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Triphena: we had that same rule along with a rule that fights always took place after school on the county fairgrounds across the street (to be off of school property). The weird thing is these "rules" only applied to the guys, the girl fights just about always involved friends and took place mainly in the cafeteria.

whats_in_a_name

]]> <![CDATA[]]> We can blame the interweb all we want, but all the internet and video games and MTV does it just attract people who were already this close to bullying and other aggressive behaviors. And it all stems from the home. Sorry to say it, but this is a case of kids with too much unsupervised time on their hands and kids who are not comfortable confiding in their parents.

ArtfulSlinger

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @bananaballs: if you need to explain to kids that when you record something and put it on you tube everyone will see it i think you should just go ahead and kill yourselves because the future is looking hella bleak.

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @bananaballs: probably not, since the huge generation gap between teachers and students equates to 'new to the internet' and 'never knew anything else'

gold_gato

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @BeckyIva: I get the impression that the parents of bullies are the "mah kidz are good kidz, you need to leave 'em be!!" kind of people.

I mean, where do these kids learn that anger and violence? I didn't grow up around that kind of thing and would have absolutely no idea how to hit or punch someone. Or defend myself for that matter. Bullies need to have CPS called on their behalf because things aren't good at home, I'm guessing.

LoveNoelG

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @AnderBobo: I was still into Barbies!

gold_gato

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @BlondeGrlz: If she's a daughter of a cop, I certainly hope her dad will insist on pressing charges against these girls, especially since the school is doing nothing.

Even though the violence itself did not occur on school grounds, what if the luring did? Wouldn't that emotional bullying be enough to discipline these kids?

I agree with the sentiment expressed by a whole lot of you above. I can't stand watching Rock of Love and other cat fight shows (even ANTM is too much for me sometimes). I saw and experienced enough taunting by girls when I was in middle school. I have no desire to see anymore of it. It sets the bar pretty disgustingly low.

petuniacat

]]> <![CDATA[]]> I may be ignorant to this, but do schools do anything to teach about internet responsibility? As in, what really happens when you put something up for everyone to see? How your ownership of an image is pretty much lost when you put it on a site? Seriously. I know it's sort of besides the point, but maybe if kids knew that doing this sort of thing is like the dumbest shit ever, maybe it could help deter them.

bananaballs

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @BeckySharper: Because everyone knows that after two girls fight the next step is that they will get naked and have sex and possibly invite the male spectators to join in.
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @BeckySharper: I don't know about that. When the big drinking parties in the woods got broken up when I was in HS, kids who got PC'd were routinely suspended and/or kicked off sports teams.

Triphena

]]> <![CDATA[]]> I am now officially frightened of little girls

functional_alcoholic

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @ImTheBobblehead: So true. And if it were a man beating the crap out of a woman, you know VH1 would portray it in a whole different light.
Girl-on-girl violence is somehow still seen as sexy or entertaining in our fucked-up pop culture.


BeckySharper

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @NefariousNewt: I was more concerned about parents protecting their children from becoming victims. As in, how do we teach insecure, eager-to-please-their-peers 12 year olds not to be lured off of school grounds into some parking lot? And I'm sure some of the girls involved in the beating were victims of peer pressure as well. I had amazing parents, who used all of the common sense you described, but when I was in middle school, I took up smoking, shoplifting, sneaking around and lying to my parents, all to impress my friends.

BeckyIva

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Did this kind of voilence exist when we were in High School/Middle School? Because I certianly don't remember it happening. I remember girls fighting but it was over 'issues' and not some sort of perverse voyeurism.

firecracker

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Jesus.

I adore "Rock of Love," but in light of the increasing amount of stories like this, the Heather-Daisy fight on the reunion show last night totally disgusts me.

Girl-on-girl violence with an eager, cheering audience = scary, scary shit.

ImTheBobblehead

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Not only is this weird taping and posting of fights new, but I feel like this gang of people beating on one person is also new. Certainly, there were fights at my middle/high school, but it was always just the two people who had a problem with each other. If other people tried to jump in they were pushed away; it would have been a gross show of weakness to have your friends have to help you. Did anyone else have that sort of rule?

Triphena

]]> <![CDATA[]]> You know, I've always been skeptical of the argument that violence on TV leads to violence. But seriously? When you have kids performing acts of violence just for the purpose of taping them, you've really gotta wonder.

zivah

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Did anyone else read this part:
The victim, who was treated for cuts and bruises at a hospital, was the daughter of a police officer.
I wonder if they targeted her because of her dad, or if they're just so stupid they didn't know it was a cop's kid. Here's a hint, idiots of the world, don't fuck with someone if their dad carries a gun to work.



BlondeGrlz

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @Muffyn: I just re-read that and I don't want to be seen as coming across harsh on Nefarious. I was agreeing with him.

Muffyn

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @NefariousNewt: with their smart levels they'll probably both videotape themselves doing it and do it in plain view of a police officer and the news.

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @NefariousNewt: I mean WTF? Laissez faire? With violence? I can understand if your child doesn't want to go to swim lessons or karate class; I'm not going to stiffle my child into a recreation he/she doesn't like. But sense?
Holy effing hell. I cannot believe this. What hellions are being raised? How difficult is it to teach that violence is wrong. WRONG? Or are these the kids being beat nightly themselves? It IS the parents' fault IMHO. Yeah society sucks these days, but come on. What the fuck?


Muffyn

]]> <![CDATA[]]> the intarwebz: bringing teen bullying to a whole new level. thanks a lot, Al Gore...

cupcakesofdeath

]]> <![CDATA[]]> not the greatest way to start off my monday. srsly, i weep for the future.

CMG

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Well, that's just awesome. Yes, let's not discipline them. That'll show 'em!

I say we bring back the stocks. I'd stand in line for hours to throw rotten produce at these little twerps.

TheFormerJuneBronson

]]> <![CDATA[]]> It won't be long before "inspiration" leads to "expiration." Eventually, as this spreads, we will hear of a group of young kids who will end up killing a classmate, not just hurting them.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @braak: They weren't inspired by the negative aspects, because they have not been taught about consequences.

I have this discussion with my kids all the time. I do not allow them to act any way they please. I am strict, perhaps sometimes harsh, but I want my kids to know that anything they do to someone else will have consequences far beyond the moment and that if they do something that goes beyond what society finds acceptable they will find themselves paying the price.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[]]> The hell?

DeafChick

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Dear mommy, your child is not a precious snowflake. Your kid is an asshole. Thanks.

unpopular

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Apparently there is no magic number, considering we've had umpteen school shootings. These are "small potatoes".

sanibelly

]]> <![CDATA[]]> @BeckyIva: Education? How about parents use common sense? How about parents start enforcing rule sin their home and teaching children that there will be consequences for violating those rules? How about teaching them that violent acts of any type will not be tolerated?

This is going on because there is a lot of laissez faire parenting out there, because parents refuse to control or challenge their kids in order to "not stunt their emotional growth." And this is the result -- children with low morals and no scruples, who think nothing of beating a classmate and taping it so they can have their 15 minutes of Internet fame.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[]]> That is fucked up.

manykindsofthings

]]> <![CDATA[]]> To be fair to the superintendant, there's nothing that he can do unless the attack occurred on school grounds. The school system's authority doesn't extend outside the school.

The police, though, can arrest them, and the DA can prosecute them, which I sincerely hope they will.

BeckySharper

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Why is it, that the florida teens INSPIRED other kids to do it? You'd hope it would freak them out, and make them empathize with the girl who got beaten, not make them want to do the same thing. If nothing else, aren't these kids realizing that filming it and posting it online is how you get caught? I feel old and sad.

dontbogartthewine

]]> <![CDATA[]]> YAY DARWIN JUNIOR AWARDS!!!!!!!

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[]]> It would also help if Vh1 and Mtv stopped glorifying girlfights as cool on their reality shows that they show during the day when the teens are home watching.
I don't know how many times I saw the commercial for the Rock of Love reunion with Heather punching Daisy in the head before it actually aired.


pantycrickets

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Which part were they inspired about? The part where the other girls got caught, or the part where they all went to jail?

What the hell kind of morons are we raising here?

braak

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Omg, Youtube really IS going to be the end of all of us.

And seriously, when I was 12 I was still playing Power Rangers at the park with my friends.

AnderBobo

]]> <![CDATA[]]> In addition to being bad people, those kids are morons. The whole reason the Florida case came to light was because they got caught and are now in huge trouble.

janna

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Well, there you go. the stain is already spreading.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[]]> Seriously, what can parents do? What education can we provide for parents who want to keep their kids out of these situations?

BeckyIva

]]>