That wasn't the point of my analogy at all. The point was that both words can be negative and hateful and completely unnecessary. I never said they were exactly the same or that crazy is worse than the n word, in fact, I said the opposite.

bria

foodandshoes

foodandshoes

Snooties

Snooties

Slut Machine

Thanks. And I agree with your "crazy" assessment.

Anovelista

She acting craaazzzyyy here. Like, if she was on a subway, you'd back up.

brassinpocket

AnnaWintwhore

BetsyD

Sophie

Philthyist

You're right, but it's a start. Some of the links I provided are very informative about how mentally ill people are portrayed in the media and what the actual statistics are.

bria

I did too! I remember just sitting agape at the TV wondering what was going on with her. Looking back now, it does seem rather tame.

ohnokids

I know this thread is dead, but I don't think that "being crazy" is a bad thing. Some of the people I know who could be labeled as "crazy" are also some of the most intelligent and creative people I have ever met. For whatever reason, not using the word "crazy" doesn't seem to be the best solution to the massive amount of misinformation about mental illness in today's society.

BeAgrestic

Most really great artists could be considered eccentric, and that I what I think Mariah is. I wouldn't call her crazy but she definitely has a loopy side to her, as do most highly artistic minded people. And I think the people who genuinely love her would take her no other way. Even she admits that she is "eternally 12" which is kind of endearing.

AnderBobo

squeakel

theunicorn

BeFrugalNotCheap

i think, and there are those who differ, that using the word crazy can be a lot like using the word retard or retarded. people who are directly affected by it have a varying degree of reaction, but because some people don't like that term, i will stick to my euphemisms or more scientific terms like developmental disability. i mean, i'd rather people not refer to me and my problems in a pejorative manner.

lermanzo

squeakel

Fair enough. I'm glad that you addressed the other commenters experiences and also shared your own. Again, I think you made a good point. I just think that it was overstated in this case - especially comparing "crazy" to the n-word - but I'm glad you clarified.

Like many people here, I have a lot of these issues in my family and I am no stranger to depression, anxiety and the desire to chuck it all and go swimming, look at rainbows and eat (lots!) of ice cream. I am a writer and I am particularly fascinated with mental health issues as they affect artists, so you may be interested in Kay Redfield Jamison's book Touched with Fire: Manic Depressive Illness and the Artistic Temperment. [www.amazon.com]

Clearly your heart is in the right place and I hope that you continue to do well.:)

Anovelista

There is a lot of discrimination against the mentally ill, it's disheartening. It's cold comfort, but I hope you realize you're not alone.

*hugs*

lola82

bria

But I think the word "crazy" isn't being used here to say "OMG SHE TOTALLY HAS SOME KIND OF CHEMICAL IMBALANCE LAWL LOOK AT THE NUTTER." "Crazy" here implies a certain insouciance and carelessness and free-spiritedness.

I can't stop using the word "crazy". It's too embedded in my lexicon. "Crazy", in most colloquial contexts, implies a certain incredulity about another's actions, a smack of mild absurdity, a commentary on the fact that another person's actions are extraordinary or particularly daring.

To me, it just doesn't address a person's brain chemistry or structure, or any other disorders that may cause them to suffer mentally. And, I mean, I'm also not a total bitch, because there are certain terms *I* can't even be snarky about. Words like "retard" and "tranny" are much more difficult for me to just drop casually, because they SPECIFICALLY refer, in a derogatory fashion, to certain characteristics about a person. Am I gonna get all offended when I read those terms being used as slang? Nah. It's an uphill battle. The best thing I can do to propagate respect for those individuals is to be respectful to them with my actions. Words are sometimes just words.

Bria, I get what you're saying, and I gotta give you props for your calmness and sensitivity in maintaining this dialogue, but "crazy" doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. I, for one, am not dropping it from my Jeze-vernacular. You challenged some viewpoints, but some of us our sticking to 'em. Thank you for being thoughtful and thought-provoking, though. It's what I come here for.

tscheese

I enjoyed reading your input. I agree that sometimes it's good to skip a post.
If I see something that I know is really going to push my buttons, I'll read the headline, but stop before the jump.

It's saved me from getting carried away sometimes.

SSteele

bria

Political Party Girl

Cajeta Quemada

pfaith1367

pfaith1367

*hugs*

I can completely relate to being conflicted about getting care for yourself to avoid trouble for your career. And I don't really have any suggestions because I can't figure it out myself. Oh, and screw guys that call us crazy. I'll quote myself from a few years back, responding to just that situation "I'm crazy because you MAKE me CRAZY, mother-fucker!" But in that case, I WAS crazy and he was just making it worse by mentioning it. So I bucked-up and put on the crazy-girl hat and threw his clothes off of our balcony. Wow, that was quite the confession.

nammit

My goal was not to repeat myself "25" times. I tried to respond to specific arguments instead of just repeating the same shtick over, but I definitely see how it seem repetitive. I was not trying AT ALL to be condescending: I know the intelligence of the posters and I love reading discussions here because everyone on this site is very smart and articulate.

Bria stated that she has worked with the mentally ill (and linked articles) but she did not acknowledge commenters who discussed their personal/family histories with mental illness/anxiety/depression, etc. and who were not offended by the use of "crazy" in this context. She just bypassed their experience and reiterated her point. Repeatedly.

Nope, you're wrong. I never said I have worked with the mentally ill. I'm a student, and I volunteer with several agencies that advance opportunities for mentally ill people. I did not "bypass" their experience, I just haven't addressed it yet! Which I will now: I'm not going to take those people's opinions away from them. If they aren't offended by being called crazy or by their family/friends being called crazy, I'm glad because I obviously don't want their feelings to be hurt! But I think it is insensitive and has absolutely no psychiatric value. And we can have differing opinions.

If anybody wants my life story, please ask, but for now I'll give a brief history: I have (about) four mental illnesses, I've tried to kill myself more than once, I've been hospitalized for psychiatric reasons twice, including one experience that left me with constant nightmares and flashbacks (PTSD), I've been on over 13 psychiatric medications, and my anxiety is so bad that sometimes I can't leave my room for weeks. I've had a lot of experience with discrimination and people calling me names, I spend thousands of dollars a month on my mental health and it's still not getting better. There's much more...I love Jezebel because its a safe haven for me when I can't leave my room. I'm doing the best that I can and I feel that I should stand up for comments that I believe are hurtful. That's all for now.

bria

LipstickLibrarian

On a more serious note, please don't risk your health for the bar exam. It's not worth it. I am a lawyer, admitted in NY, and my character/fitness interview lasted less than 5 minutes. It's not as major or as discriminatory as people imagine. If you need help, seek it. Good luck!!

STICKSnSCONES

Ptarmigan

@funnyface:

I agree with both of you. Bria made a good point - but making in 25 times is rather tiring and condescending considering the intelligence of the posters here.

What I also find interesting is that I believe Bria stated that she has worked with the mentally ill (and linked articles) but she did not acknowledge commenters who discussed their personal/family histories with mental illness/anxiety/depression, etc. and who were not offended by the use of "crazy" in this context. She just bypassed their experience and reiterated her point. Repeatedly.

Anovelista

jennyjen

dictator4life1

And about the "crazy" thing. I'm a mentally ill person. Altho.. it's funny, "crazy" sounds more light-hearted and welcoming. Anyway, I'm certifiable, medicated, blah, blah, blah. I don't take offense to the term "crazy". The fact is (for me, anyway), it is the laughter that my mental issues bring that makes the diagnosis bearable. Seriously.

And Mariah, specifically? I don't like her because the boy in high school that I was completely "crazy" for, thought she was hot. And that makes her an enemy. 12 years later... I'm still a hater.

And my four year old's bath just started running over the side of the tub. Oops. How will I ever manage?

nammit

tranquilmademoiselle

funnyface

Still, even if my assumption is incorrect and some of us were unaware that we should be cautious when throwing the term around, you have certainly made your point. I respect your opinion and desire to shine a light on a subject that is obviously very important to you, but please understand that everyone does not have to agree with you. And after you've made your point, there's no need to keep telling everyone how you feel.

STICKSnSCONES

I realize I kind of started this debate, but I must go now, so I'll check back later. Please don't hesitate to leave a message on my page or email me at bria.berger@hope.edu if you have anything else to say to me or ask me. Bye now!

bria

First of all, growing up as the kid of a White woman and a Black man in the 70's was no walk in the park for her from everything I've read.

Her family was harrassed constantly, their dogs were poisoned, tires flattened, etc. All types of ignorant, foul, racist shit was inflicted upon her family. Her mom and dad broke up when she was like 4, she and her mom moved like 25 times during her childhood, they didn't have ANY money, her sister became a hooker and contracted AIDS, she married a svengali record producer 20 years her senior who was abusive and controlling...she was estranged from her father until shortly before he died a few years ago, her mothers family didn't approve of her parents interracial marriage so she never felt loved by a lot of her family...

Sorry, I am turning this into a screenplay for a Lifetime movie but the woman has gone through A LOT in her life.

So she had a brief moment where she WAS STRESSED AND TIRED AS HELL and all she wanted to do was ride ponies and bikes while savoring a tasty frozen treat...BIG FRIGGIN DEAL!

She's an amazing artist and "crazy" is not at all an appropriate term for her.

/rant

Ahhh...I love you Mariah Carey.

Childfree Sexpot

As far as skipping posts goes: it is more about people who click on a post (and I don't mean you in this particular instance) simply to complain about it in a really unnecessary manner. An example would be to go into a post about The Hills only to type :"The Hills is boring and I have never watched it. NEXT!"

Mental illness is a very difficult issue to discuss with those who have not suffered from it directly (though most of us have, either personally or through the suffering of a family member/loved one), and I understand your frustration. But I think that the implication that "crazy", at least in this case, was a hate-filled word, is somewhat false.

And for the record: "crazy", to me, isn't as offensive as, say, "Mariah Was a Schizo" or something of the sort.

hortense

PopCultureSavant

I understand. I will email the editors directly, but I also took issue with what some of the commenters were saying, which is why I started having the discussion within the post. Some people were using the word crazy in a hateful manner, and that's who I was directing my comments too. I've said that I'm only trying to have a discussion, definitely not trying to whine or censor people. I disagree though that we should skip things that we are offended by: where would Jezebel be if it just "skipped" all the articles that were misogynistic or sexist?

bria

Look. I understand where you are coming from, Bria. And TMI alert: (though I think everyone on this site knows this by now) I was hospitalized for months for my ED/depression, and am sensitive to a point, but this post, and the use of the word "crazy" in it, weren't put up in a hateful manner.

Mariah Carey is a source of constant wonder around here. I love Mariah Carey. I love Mariah Carey mostly because she did have her crazy moments, and she pulled the fuck through them. And she's still crazy. Perhaps not in the psych ward sense, but she's "crazy" in the "Oh my god, can you believe she has a Hello Kitty bathroom and she's 35 years old" sense.

You guys. It's Jezebel.

If you are offended by the content, then perhaps you should skip these posts, or email the editors directly.

hortense

Oh for sure, I say the weather's crazy all the time! I definitely think in some contexts it is offensive and some contexts not offensive at all

In other news, here is what the American Idol contestants are singing for Mariah night this week:

[photos.tmz.com]
I have to admit, I was really wondering what Jason was going to do.

bria

lina_lamont

bria

I never said "no one can use the word crazy anymore." I realize that sometimes it is offensive and sometimes it's not. I've said that repeatedly in this thread. : )

bria

caprette

Definitely a good point and I agree. I am all about letting language fluidly change, I just hope people realize sometimes it can be offensive.

bria

BlondeGrlz

I don't think I'm overanalyzing, I am just trying to point out that its use can be offensive and insensitive.

bria

Sophie

caprette

Definitely a good point. The term crazy has been used to stereotype mentally ill people; I threw out this link before but it's really informative.
[physed.otago.ac.nz]
I wouldn't say crazy is as offensive as the n word. It's very different, but similar in that it can be used as hate speech.

bria

I didn't intend to compare the n word as exactly the same to crazy. Just a similar point that it's a hate term- there are many examples out there.

I'm not trying to whine or preach, or force anyone into my interpretation. I'm trying to start a discussion and a dialogue. Often people don't even know a word they use often can be considered offensive; that's happened to me a few times. I haven't resorted to name calling in this thread and would hope that others won't either.

bria

I love the shit outta Mariah and yes, whether she has a mental illness or not, she can seem as crazy as the day is long. All this whining and preaching and trying to FORCE people to accept your interpretation/connotation of a commonly used word to describe erratic behavior is absurd. Crazy even.

STICKSnSCONES

rhinestonedarling

LaFemme

whateverhappened

LaFemme

goldengirl11

squirrelcop

Sophie

Certainly true- crazy isn't an inherently offensive word, depends on the way it's used. Great point. : )

bria

info*ninja

squirrelcop

rad_matter

info*ninja

bria

Certainly very good points. But if this post were a video showing someone with MS at one of their lowest points, would people be laughing? Mental illnesses are the same as physical illnesses in this regard: the people are ILL. And sometimes those illnesses spark unusual behavior, and it's tough to be on the receiving end of that.

bria

And Eminem subtly dissing Mark Wahlberg by saying "Aren't we all just one happy fun bunch," and Mark making a pissed-off tough guy face/stance.

beatrice3000

(Drumroll please...)

She sticks the landing! And the crowd goes WILD!!!

Political Party Girl

Yes, that is interesting. I would tell Mariah that she is not crazy at all and shouldn't let people call her that, she's just having a tough time. It shows how commonly that word is used. I hate to make her the face of this debate because I don't know if she ever publicly said she had a mental illness, and if she doesn't and just had that difficult period of time, I apologize, but she did spark the debate and I hope she would be okay with that :) Maybe she would even tell me that we belong together...

bria

Sophie

theunicorn

FourInchHeels

squirrelcop

So, yes, perhaps it is insensitive to say "crazy," but if you're perfectly honest, that is the manner in which she is behaving regardless of the cause.

Sometimes people with mental illnesses behave in "wacky" ways, and they are funny. (Oh, the stories I've heard over the years.) Just because my dad can come home and laugh when he tells me how one of his patients was selling the free magazines from the psych ward library to another patient for $2 each in hopes of saving enough money to bribe a nurse or security guard to let him out, it doesn't mean my father cares any less about treating them or is callous to their illness. It's the same here.

Just because we can laugh at her behavior does not mean we are laughing at her mental illness. I am sure that many Jezebels have mentally ill family members (I do! Schizophrenic aunt!), and these comments to not necessarily mean they take mental illness any less seriously than you.

Political Party Girl

rhinestonedarling

andBegorrah

info*ninja

CrazyLegsMeg

CrazyLegsMeg

Sophie

FourInchHeels

SarahMcL

I was weirded the fuck out but even more weirded out about WHY people were weirded out by it.

I thought it was cool, that she came by to give everyone ice cream but I had no idea she wasn't exactly "right" at the time.

TexasCrude

info*ninja

LaFemme

Not trying to censor people, just trying to point out a phrase that's insensitive.

@Jaguares:
The comparison is in the use: to undermine people, dismiss people, to make yourself superior by calling people that. Both terms are very offensive.

bria

Hate speech is hate speech - why does it matter what predisposed condition the hater is chosing to identify? Whether it's what's on the outside or what's on the inside - both C & N are hate words

I think you just wanted to type the N word and post it online. Did it feel liberating? Dangerous?

CrazyLegsMeg

Cam/ron

Jaguares

Sophie

FourInchHeels

CrazyLegsMeg

I don't think the post was perfectly good, because it centered around making fun of someone at one of their lowest points, and I don't think it was wasted because we had an opportunity to start a dialogue about something very important to me.

@info*ninja: @FourInchHeels: @SarahMcL:
Thank you very much for your nice words. : )

bria

rad_matter

@Jaguares: How on earth are those not comparable? They're both derogatory terms that were once viewed as acceptable and no longer are.

FourInchHeels

Jaguares

Cam/ron

info*ninja

SarahMcL

Political Party Girl

FourInchHeels

SarahMcL

Thank you both very much. This is cheesey but you both just made me smile : )

bria

I haven't read every single article on Jezebel, but if I see future articles with the word crazy towards mentally ill people, I will respond. No I have never been called the n word to be face, but I've been called a lot of other terrible things. I've had people tell me they hope I never raise a child because as someone with mental illness issues, I'm obviously not fit to be a parent. Calling someone the n word is despicable, I definitely agree.@BinderClip:

I understand people don't want to be lectured and I apologize if I am being too 'preachy.' I am just trying to get people to think and to start a dialogue on the subject.

bria

But seriously, great point in that if it happens multiple times and nobody says anything it must be okay. I'm doing the slow clap start just for you.

TwiceShy

jennyjen

Oh, interesting. I haven't seen that episode but now I really want to because Dave Chappelle's life is really fascinating.

Just another comment on the stereotypes that plague mentally ill people:
Indeed, a 1989 summary of Gerbner's sampling of television content over almost two decades, indicated that more than 70 percent of all portrayed mentally ill characters were also violent. Besides being perpetrators of violence, those characters portrayed as having a mental illness or mental disability are also usually depicted as being victims of violence (Signorelli, 1989). The media's fixation on mentally ill people as perpetrators and victims of violence however, does not reflect reality. Indeed, the figure of 72 percent of mentally ill characters who commit violent acts on prime time television is enormously divergent from the actual 12 percent who do in reality (Wahl, 1995).

[physed.otago.ac.nz]

bria

Jaguares

Bria, I appreciate your points, but lecturing is usually not what people come here for. There's all sorts of ridiculous stuff said about Catholicism and Islam on this site, and most of it is hella funny if academically incorrect, so I try to refrain from going all Durkheim/Weber on people's asses, ya know?

BinderClip

MonkeySeeMonkeyDo

Mariah was my idol when I was 10. Her voice was fantastic, and she just shined in my eyes.

Zoolander was the first thing to make me laugh after the 9/11 attacks.

Whenever Mariah's Cribs episode is aired, the part with her in the bathtub and taking off her clothes is removed.

beatrice3000

TwiceShy

Sophie

The use of crazy towards mentally ill people is offensive, therefore I am not going to have a 'freak-out,' but I am trying to have a discussion.

bria

(I may have opened a can of worms there. Ducking for cover as I run off to the hair appt. I'm almost late for).

petuniacat

Jaguares

Jaguares

bria

I'm glad my point has been made, but I'm still discussing specific points with some other posters. And when did I ever suggest that Jezebel "ban" a word? And it's not just because it hurts my feelings, as I've previously stated.

I don't feel I've derailed a funny thread because I don't feel the thread, itself, is funny: calling someone with mental struggles 'crazy' and showing a video of them at their lowest isn't very funny.

bria

BlondeGrlz

TwiceShy

petuniacat

You've made your point, homey, at the expense of derailing a really funny thread.

Smackdown

I totally agree with you! I don't think it's funny.

bria

Crazy implies reckless, irrational, a threat of harm to others, and it's used as justification for dismissal. "Oh, it doesn't matter, she's crazy."

This is a nice excerpt from this website:

Mentally ill characters on television drama are also the victims of derogatory terms used to describe them. One study found that the correct technical terms used to describe mental disorders are rarely used in such drama; instead, slang terms, such as crazy, sick, nuts, sicko, weirdo, fruitcake, wacko and kook were used to describe these characters (Wahl, 1995). While the media have learned to avoid slang references because of the offensiveness to ethnicity, sexual reference and gender that they present, they have not seen appropriate to give up such references for those with mental illness or mental disabilities (Wahl, 1995). Therefore, depictions of mental illness remain pervasive and consistent with existing stereotypes. Thus, there is every reason to expect that they will continue to shape the public's views - providing their 'social reality' (Wahl, 1995). Media consumers, on the other hand, will increasingly come to see people with mental illnesses as they are depicted in the media - incapable of leading lives that are not a threat to others.

[physed.otago.ac.nz]

The other links I posted are also much more eloquent than I could be.

bria

lina_lamont

Thanks for all of the kind words. I'm definitely not trying to start a fight, just a dialogue.

bria

shoebunny

andBegorrah

bria

FourInchHeels

FourInchHeels

This isn't my 'cause,' this is just someone who believes that calling mentally ill people 'crazy' is wrong and is trying to stand up for that. I volunteer for a variety of organizations to advance the opportunities for people suffering from mental illnesses. Why should I stop fighting for people to get rid of stereotypes? Lots of great leaders have been told their cause was a lost one, and if all of them stopped, where would we be? (But apparently I can never be one of those leaders because I'm crazy.)

bria

Hamsterpants

brendastarlet

That's fine, but the words crazy are used to dismiss people as being unrational and unstable, which is horribly offensive. I'm trying to have a mature discussion. The articles I linked to talk more about the importance of language in reference to the mentally ill.

bria

stupidaol

Mrs. DeLesseps To You, Dahling

Certainly laughter does help, but I'm not laughing when I'm called crazy and unstable to my face by my peers. Which happens to people all. the. time.

bria

It's not used by the psychiatric community, but this isn't the psychiatric community: it's an often snarky, cynical blog for chicas with fine-tuned BS detectors.

golddigger

Cam/ron

Now that I've gotten (good) help, I've realized that my mental instability or whatever you want to call it is a lot more manageable than I ever thought it could be and that while it's a part of who I am, it's not at all a major part of my identity.

Having a sense of humor about it helps a lot. I mean, really, wallowing in the misery and feeling alone in it really doesn't help. But laughter? That does help.

petuniacat

That's fine, but it doesn't mean I should stop fighting stereotypes. And I won't. And to imply that I h