<![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating" - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating" - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @J.D.Regent:

Unfortunately, there are very few studies on the psychology of sexual offenders, like rapists, because it is very difficult to get funding and permission to do those studies on the prison population in the U.S. (there are some studies from other countries, but the same probably holds). And if not in prison, how would a researcher find a sample of rapists?

I'm sure that if the barriers to studying the population were easier, more researchers would approach it, and we could gain valuable insights, rather than speculation, about the motivation for sexual abuse behaviors. Right now, we are stuck with our own inferences.

Super_Kitten

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> Eh, whether or not she inserted herself into this film is like the difference between an academic journal and a critical essay. When you do research like this, it is important that you remain as objective as possible. Getting too close to a subject that you're studying can create problems with accuracy, among many other things.

If your purpose is to make a documentary about rape in Africa, that's what it needs to be about. Throw in the personal stuff in the DVD extras, perhaps, but otherwise it's important to stay on topic. If you want to make the point that rape happens everywhere in the world, make a movie called "Rape: It's not just in Africa."

Really, though, I'm betting those reviews were way off base. It sounded more as if she only brought up her personal experiences as a way to bridge the cultural gap between herself and these women. As for her final comment, it is both a moving statement and a way to provide a little journalistic flair to the ending. Maybe it's not standard, but it didn't sound too inappropriate to me.

Then again, I haven't seen it. It's 4AM and I'm just rambling. Also, I've come upon this thread so late that it's unlikely this comment will even be read. just typing for the hell of it at this point. <3

meli

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @J.D.Regent: No worries, my typing was wonky. I meant "If Zaire had nothing we wanted,"

ceejeemcbeegee

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @B_boy: In terms of motivation, I can't speak generally, but I know in the former Yugoslavia it was definitely ordered by commanders/the government. Not that that's an excuse in any way of course, but I think it's more systemic in the Congo, (as in, men are just doing it rather than necessarily ordered to). Charli Carpenter's book "Born of War" book details this.

In the book "Mothers, Monsters, Whores" by Laura Sjoberg and Caron E. Gentry, a really sickening example is given of one of the female organizers of the genocide in Rwanda who not only directed men to rape Tutsi women, but specifically instructed HER OWN SONS on which women to rape and how to rape them. That I simply will never understand.

As for the other things I mentioned - I was just throwing them out there, I have no idea. I wish I knew. I know there are DDR (Disarmament, Demobilization and Reintegration) programs meant to help normalize society after a conflict, but they rarely ever ackowledge women.

angelheadedhipster

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Blitzgal:

the impression i get from the reviews is that the documentarian jackson is the one that fixated on her own personal details at the expense of the larger picture. why must the mass rape of women in the congo be filtered through the vessel of a white, western women and her experiences? rather than engaging the audience, it simply removes them when step farther from is ostensibly the subject - the horrible rape and sexual assault of african women. again, this is a trend in modern documentary filmmaking. that i, the filmmaker, am the story. my feelings are the story. i am more interesting than that which the camera is pointed at.

this is so rarely the case.

PretentiousMusings

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I'll watch this tonight with my mom. Upon reading about the crimes committed against Congolese women I created a facebook "cause" for it. We currently have 483 members and $185 donated to the organization Women for Women International.

If anyone would like to donate or join the cause who has facebook it can be found here:
[apps.facebook.com]

elizabethgrace

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @missbehave (is misbehaving): It just recently became accepted as a weapon of war and war crime. All of you lovely Americans should pressure your government to join the international criminal court (maybe there is an election or something coming up...)
[www.icc-cpi.int]

info*ninja

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I think what the reviewer is trying to say is that like all forms of abuse and violation and evil, rape too has degrees of horror and evil. All too often, white middle-class liberals are immune to the extent of their privilege and overidentify with suffering that is so horrific that it sounds made up.
And all too often white middle-class liberals are narcissistic in that they use a story about the suffering of people in the third world as nothing more than a metaphor and a backdrop for A Personal Spiritual Journey.
I don't know if that is what is happening here. I haven't seen the documentary.
Also, we live in a culture that while narcissistic is ALSO Puritan. So people who have undergone suffering are constantly urged to get over it and Move On and are criticized for not counting their blessings. That feeds the narcissism.
So yeah the film-maker's rape is obviously horrific and while the broad parameters of misogyny are constant the world over, there are degrees of misogyny that while common elsewhere would be absolutely unthinkable here. The sad and disturbing fact is that the United States is one of the best countries in the world to be a survivor of rape. And a middle-class Caucasian American rape victim is going to have an easier healing process than a Congolese woman.

Crazydogggz

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @TruculentandUnreliable: I have not seen the film yet either but I think you are right about this trend. It's interesting to me that Americans (and I am one) tend to think they have to have a shared experience in order to empathize with someone else regarding that person's own tragedy. I was taught that documentaries should (or at least ones about issues) should focus away from the film-maker. However, I'm really not being fair because, as I've said, I have not seen the film.

Algren

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @ceejeemcbeegee: sorry bout that, thought you were saying the opposite about DRC.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @J.D.Regent: Thanks for that link... helps to illustrate my point.

@amoureuse is the Head of the Unicorn Party: Exactly my point!

When we run out of room and resources here and in Europe, guess what continent has an abundance of land?

Global gentrification is more plausible than you may realize.

ceejeemcbeegee

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @amoureuse is the Head of the Unicorn Party: Great information. Thanks for this as well.

Algren

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @J.D.Regent: Wow, thanks for that link. That's very much what I was thinking of as well. I think it's relevant to consider that such organized, systematic tactics occur not only for the damage it does to women as well as the preemptive genocide it creates (women to damaged physically for childbirth or impregnated by the rapists) but that it's also designed to psychologically damage the male family members of the victims who serve as soldiers in an opposing faction as well as the fear it creates throughout entire communities. Such fear makes it easier to overtake large groups of people at once.

Algren

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @angelheadedhipster:
"how does one get to a point where he can do these things and then just turn it off?"

This is the thing I cannot begin to comprehend about the mass rapes in these conflicts.. though I suppose it fits with (some) rape in general.
Most/many of the boys who are at least complicit in these crimes must also love, or have loved, women. They must have mothers, sisters, and probably girlfriends/wives. Even if those relationships are chauvinistic, they can't equate to the brutal, specifically anti-female assaults manifest in these conflicts.
So I ask all of you, in all seriousness:
WTF?
(links/references appreciated)






B_boy

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @missbehave (is misbehaving): And remember, we still use sexual humiliation as an interrogation tactic on Muslim men.

Algren

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @ItchykooParker: I would agree that there is equally distressing inhumanity about the girls in Florida, but I was referring to the fact that rape continues to be such a feature of war/occupation.

These particular rapes are exceptionally brutal in that the perpetrators have taken such care to utterly destroy the female portions of the bodies of these women (shooting/cutting into the uterus, cutting out vaginas, cutting off breasts), but you can go right back into wars in ancient Greece and Rome right through to WWII, Vietnam, the break-down of Yugoslavia etc. to see that rape has been commonplace.

Even when women are not involved in the fighting, men seem to develop this group mentality which makes rape permissible or even desireable.

BadHairLife

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @missbehave (is misbehaving): Read Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine." You can also google Foreign training from the US at the School of Americas. The largest crime was teaching to use rape as an interrogation method (from the CIA).

Algren

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @J.D.Regent: wow. I had heard of this actually, but didn't realize rape was a "tactic" I shudder just typing that. Wait, didn't we invade a country because they were perpetrating these things on their own citizens? Oh wait, I think they had nuklar weaponz or something. That must be why it was okay and not hypocritical.

missbheave (is not convinced)

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @J.D.Regent: Indeed. I ponder this stuff alot (more than it's in the news anyway), but I sometimes worry that I don't quite 'get it' because of the whole patriarchy lens thing. So it's awesome to read all this articulate (lady) discussion without the typical base rejoinders.

@SarahMC: Sorry, didn't mean to single you out, nor presume your views were as simple as a short post. You were just the one that sparked my thoughts, that's all. :)

B_boy

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @JessicaLovejoy: Boosh and/or Kakow!: It's very much a consideration . . . it's genocidal rape. In Bosnia and Kosovo there were rape camps set up and the goal was to forcibly impregnate women. They killed the men and attempted to make "Chetnik" babies - then there would no longer be a group left to carry on. It's a way of utterly wiping away an enemy and in fact was a tactic used by the government - men were ordered to, it was a plan. Ironically enough, this is why the Nazis encouraged soldiers to not impregnate non-Aryan women, so their identity would not be passed on. It's incredibly sad, but it is seen as a strategy to help them "win". It's also a problem after the conflict has ended in terms of reintegration and reconciliation (they have to live together, how does one get to a point where he can do these things and then just turn it off, how permissible will society be afterwards in terms of violence against women, etc.)

I wrote an article about this subject earlier this year for an internship and today my Mom called to tell me she was going to watch it because of the article. I think the most important thing is to actually keep bringing it up, becuase it's so easy to ignore it/look away . . .

angelheadedhipster

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @amoureuse is the Head of the Unicorn Party: Those are officially NOT "stupid facts."

Those are important facts that it hurts to know...and yet I'm glad to know them, all the same.

I just wish I knew what to do with the information.

snarkhunting

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> Sorry to bombard with more stupid facts, but this is my final rant:

In August 2003, journalist and novelist Alex Shoumatoff gave a speech in New York on the ecological destruction of DRC and its indigenous gorilla population due to illegal logging and mining.

He stated most coltan resources ended up in America, through Pennsylvanian-based Cabot High Performance Materials, who made $100 million a year from grinding coltan into powder for capacitors.

Shoumatoff also implicated the Carlisle Group, the US-based global private equity investment firm fronted by George Bush senior. The board of directors lists among others ex-US Secretary of State James Baker III, ex-US Defence Secretary Frank C. Carlucci, ex-UK Prime Minister John Major and until October 2001 was the home to a $2.02 million investment from the Bin Laden family.

"Carlisle's biggest customer is the American military," Shoumatoff said. "A whole lot of coltan was just used in the attack on Iraq."

Four million people have died as a result of the war in DRC. There are 340,000 refugees in neighbouring countries, two million people are displaced and 18 million Congolese people have no public services. The human rights abuses are uncountable.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Meangirl:

i haven't seen the film, so i can't really comment on its merits. this being said, there is a trend in documentary film i find troubling (which the ny times highlights in its review) where the filmmaker makes themselves the subject of their picture. what i gather from the ny times review, rape in the congo is not the subject of "the greatest silence," but rather, it is jackson's feelings about it and what it means to her. i call this the moore-spurlock school of documentaries. obviously, jackson's experience should inform her filmmaking, but making herself the sort of narrative intermediary (again, i haven't seen the film, just extrapolating from the reviews) is somewhat condescending to the audience - as though we couldn't relate to the horrors being perpetrated in the congo without these horrors being filtered through a white, western woman.

i don't know. maybe "the great silence" is wonderful and the ny times is wrong. wouldn't be the first time.

PretentiousMusings

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @PantyWaist: From Wikipedia: "There is no universally accepted distinction between rape and other forms of assault involving one or both participant's sexual organs. When the term "rape" is used, some criminal codes explicitly consider all kinds of forced sexual activity to be rape, whereas in others only acts involving penis penetration of the vagina."

Bindarra

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I see this as Lisa Jackson taking power away from her rapists, and helping the women she interviews do the same.

Simple, perhaps, but that's my interpretation.

Bindarra

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @ceejeemcbeegee: The Congo is filthy rich. We haven't discovered oil yet, but we have diamonds, copper, coltan, uranium ( provided the uranium for the Hiroshima bomb),cobalt, cadmium, , gold, silver, zinc, manganese, tin, radium, bauxite, iron ore, and coal.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka:
I agree, it seems to me that the filmmaker found these women to have grace, made of strength, in the face of mind-blowing horridness. Which is just yet another reason the damn thesaurus should not equate weak = women. I feel we are the strength of the world, the silent, incomprehensibly resilient strength.

BrutallyHonestBabes

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I am not at all sure that a stick or weapon rammed in a vagina is rape, per se. It seems more like a horrible ASSAULT, or ATTEMPTED MURDER even, but I don't see how it is rape because rape is forced sexual activity. There is nothing sexual about these crimes. I'm not sure why but it bothers me that it is called "rape."

PantyWaist

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> Isn't it just like a woman to make a documentary about rape "wrong". Geez. If only some man had done it.

BrutallyHonestBabes

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @ceejeemcbeegee: oh girl, the conflict in DRC is ALL ABOUT resource theft, namely copper and coltan. the filmmaker in the sf chron article talks about the blood of congolese women on our cellphones. here's a little background: [www.globalissues.org]

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @rah29: That's a good point. And considering what the Germans did/tried to do in Russia, their fears probably weren't totally unfounded.

I'm not terrifically articulate today myself...and my own thesis is suffering for it. ::sigh:: Elizabeth Barrett Browning deserves better than my ramblings.

snarkhunting

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @snarkhunting: Hmmm in the Soviet case I don't know if I quite buy the 'spoils' argument; I'd certainly be more inclined toward the 'revenge' aspect, especially after Soviet wartime propaganda deliberately evoked the fear of what Nazis would do to Soviet women, both on the very literal level (there's one I'll never forget, of a woman cowering in the corner with a German officer standing over her, the implications are clear) or on a figurative, raping-Mother-Russia level (Russia was always Mother). I think there's something more universal and complex and intangible about the use of mass rape as a weapon; I just can't get my head around it at the moment. I'm sorry, I'm deeply inarticulate today, as evidenced by the pathetic ramblings I currently call the intro to my thesis. :)

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Blitzgal: Yeah, that's interesting, and I think it goes back to what SarahMC was saying about how rape is used as a weapon against women as a whole. In other words, it's being used to subjugate a certain population in these instances, but is also used to subjugate women worldwide.

Am I understanding you right, Sarah?

TruculentandUnreliable

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @missbehave (is misbehaving): I don't know if this is what Algren was talking about but SOA/WHINSEC. Here's one tiny example of their work training despots and torturers in Latin America for decades. [findarticles.com] -- see you at the annual protest at Ft. Benning in November!

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> two thoughts:

1. If a country had no valuable resources like oil or diamonds, then it's easy for richer nations to ignore their obvious atrocities. Zaire had nothing we want, so who cares about it's people?

2. What if they DO have something the richer nations want (like gee I don't know... millions of acres of land? Which is easier: to send your armies to quell rampant violence and political unrest, or to let them destroy themselves.

Too many times, European/American nations have sought to install their political puppets into power (Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein), only to have it backfire (Rwanda, Iraq, Darfur). How long before they learn from their mistakes?

But as we saw with Katrina, sometimes it's best to let "nature" sweep out the old (Ninth Ward) and let the corporations bring in the new (condos).

ceejeemcbeegee

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @J.D.Regent: Exactly. And I haven't seen the film, but I think that's what she's trying to say--that while our experiences are different, we still have similar reactions to them. And I can also understand the reluctance to accept a white Western woman making comparisons about her experiences to women in Congo who have been raped as a result of war, but I feel that just to dismiss it as self-centered or self-serving is a mistake. As long as she's not saying, "OMG, we're just alike!!!" I don't see what the big deal is.

Also, you used "sequelae" in a normal, every day conversation. Awesome.

TruculentandUnreliable

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> What really gets me about these reviews is that they fixate on the documentarian's personal details in order to ignore the larger picture -- rape is used to punish, subdue, and torture the "enemy" during wartime. It's widespread. Sexual desire has very little to do with it. And yet here in this country we still worry about what rape victims were doing or wearing at the time they were raped, as if that has anything to do with it.

Blitzgal

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @J.D.Regent: Me too, I hate finding comments like that when there are so many other important aspects of a post to discuss.

I'm still undecided about all the new commenter rules, not that it matters, but Hortense definitely has my support to execute anyone who makes an assanine comment about how women could be lying about being raped!

@Algren: Do you have a source for that? That is unbelievable...not that I don't believe you, I'm just interested in reading about it.

missbheave (is not convinced)

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @B_boy: I completely agree with this assessment. For all that rape isn't really about sex, there can be a sexual motivation in some rapes (I'm thinking especially of acquaintance rape here, which the contractor rapes sort of fall under). Certainly, it's a power thing--the men do not accept "no," and assert their power over the women by forcing them, but there is a sexual motive overlaying the power trip. In war rape like what's going on in the Congo (and Darfur), it seems like power is almost the entire motivation, and that power is expressed in teh most violent ways imaginable.

snarkhunting

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @ineffable.me: No problem.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I don't think it's egocentric of her to discuss her own experience.

As a cancer survivor I find that I am often relating my own personal experience with other survivors. That doesn't mean I'm making it all about me. It's just trying to relate to other human beings.

The NYT's missed the point I think.

KatsMeow

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @B_boy: Perhaps you misinterpreted my comment(s). I realize that not all rapes are motivated by the same thing. I suppose I didn't express myself clearly enough, but for the most part I agree with you. I am just saying that rape is used as a weapon of war not only against *the other side* but against *women as a whole.* They are intertwined, sort of.

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @HeatherNumber1: Is it bad that I laughed at your last line?

Oh, God. It's bad. I am a sick, sick person. It wasn't a "hahaha funny" laugh, though. It was an "omg that's so horrible if I don't laugh in horrified awe I might scream."

snarkhunting

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @cristanann: Not only that, but the US military was one of the trainers of such tactics as rape (when they trained armies in other nations).

Algren

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka: That's how I read that quote, too. I could be wrong (we'll see when the film airs) but it seems to me she's saying that the Congolese women, who have been so brutally abused, have demonstrated an exceptional strength and resolve in the worst of circumstances.

AmazonRedheadedUberVixen

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @rah29: Look at Troy. The Soviet/German rapes were more on par with the fall of Troy and the mass rape of its women (whether or not it happened as the Iliad says it did, which it probably didn't, I guess, there's no doubt in my mind that the women were divided up and taken as "prizes") or other devastated civilizations than they fit the Congo/Balkans model. Women are conceived of as the spoils of war, and to the conquerors go the spoils.

As for this...I think it's a wonderfully important project, but I can't watch it. And I do mean "can't." I've only just gotten myself able to hear about rape in the news/on blogs without getting physically ill and unable to function. This film would be a huge setback. Maybe I'm weak, but I know when I'm beaten.

snarkhunting

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @B_boy: exactly (sorry for posting all over this thread by the way, just avoiding my actual work). i think there is a way to differentiate different violent phenomena, different kinds of rape and rapists, while still acknowledging the universality of violence against women, and the fact that for rape victims, there is a sequelae of psychological responses that are strikingly similar regardless of context.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> can i also just say how nice it is to have a post about rape and just be able to hash it out without someone being like yes, but what if this woman is lying about being gangraped. or whatever.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @SarahMC: I'd rather not believe that the countless individuals perpetrating or complicit in these rapes are simply all sadists. I think the history of human atrocities shows that the group psychology that allows such evil is more complex, and less grotesque, than something as simple as individual gratification from another's suffering.

@SarahMC: And not to denigrate the contractor victims, but I think these rapes are two very different phenomena.
I see the contractor events as something simpler, and more sexual. I'm assuming alot, but I imagine those men as exploiting/asserting their power and believed impunity over women who rejected their advances (or were presumed likely to do so). Those acts were no doubt brutal and debasing, but I suspect they were closer to a sick fantasy then the raw hate projected in the rapes we've repeatedly seen in recent African civil wars.
The rapes in Rwanda and elsewhere involve mass mutilations of femininity as an extension of some sort of extreme misogyny which I don't understand. Breasts and genitals were often assaulted without any 'sexual' acts at all, and victims were often pre-pubescent children.
This is all just my perception, so please correct me if I'm way off, but I feel like there is something fundamentally different about the assaults that have been reported in Africa. (which isn't to say that they wouldn't happen elsewhere.)




B_boy

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @missbehave (is misbehaving): basically.

SarahMC i think you make a good point there.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @murderofcrows: I think they are can't be prosecuted because they can't be court martialed (not military) and the attacks happened on non-US soil/outside US jurisdiction. She'll also have signed a contract preventing her from suing the company also, and will only be able to go through an asshat shame of an abritration court.

JD Regent, is that right?

What really makes me stabby, is you know these assholes know they can't get caught. Cause this is like the fourth time this has happened and they've seen that there are no consequences.

missbheave (is not convinced)

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @amoureuse is the Head of the Unicorn Party: and thank you so much for being patient with me and answering my questions!

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @amoureuse is the Head of the Unicorn Party: Ok, now are the rapes being committed by both sides? Or just one side?

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @amoureuse is the Head of the Unicorn Party: Oh my, that Stop Video button was tempting. I've seem more docs like this one and it upsets me every time.

@J.D.Regent: And hopefully after I get off the therapy wait list I'll no longer view what happened to me as rapte-lite either...

haguenite

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @murderofcrows: There are some links at the bottom of this Feministing thread. That's all I got... [feministing.com]

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @HeatherNumber1: I think THAT is one reason this woman is being so forcefully smacked down and her filmmaking efforts dismissed - because she says "I have been gang raped!" OUT LOUD and Westerers don't want to face the fact that sexual violence is OUR issue as well as "their" issue.

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @SarahMC: I didn't mean "these cultures" in some "you people" jackassy type of way. And no matter how poorly we look on rape victims here, people generally don't shun you because you are raped. There IS a fundamental understanding that it's not ALL of the girls' fault.

roodles

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @ineffable.me: We the Congolese and they the Rwandans.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @ineffable.me: I agree, not self-serving at all--also shows the women she is interviewing (and the viewers) that she is not trying to exploit their suffering.

And the Sun would try to minimize the film's impact and it's message by making some convoluted, nitpicky statement about focusing on one country.

missbheave (is not convinced)

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @SarahMC: Oh dear god. That is so, so upsetting. Is there anything we can do to make sure that those go to court? Seriously, I'm seriously asking.

murderofcrows

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> Yes, I'm sure as a woman is having unwanted sex forced upon her, all she's got on her mind is the bigger picture. 'But what does this rape *mean* in a broader context?'

Lessening the filmmaker's rape is painting America as a place that does not have a major problem when it comes to sexual assault, rape and femicide. A place where bad guys go away and every rape victim is met with open arms and a movie of the week. God forbid she share with interviewees to help them feel comfortable about opening up. I seriously doubt any of them were like 'Oh, you only got raped by a guy's penis? i got a stick. I win.'

HeatherNumber1

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Smackdown: yeah i do too; i cringed when i read the nytimes review because i have definitely seen representations of atrocities that i found really exploitative and counterproductive and like, colonial, but we just can't know with this one without seeing it.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @amoureuse is the Head of the Unicorn Party: ok. that doesnt seem to be answering my question? who is they? who is we?

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @broad: it may be true from the victim's perspective (although despite my earlier posts and the similarity of the post rape mentality there ARE different experiences to a certain extent depending on the context of your rape), but i think perpetrator psychology hasn't been fully explored and is probably much more complex. i mean yes, you can reduce it to power, but you could reduce pretty much everything to power; i'm not sure how helpful an analysis it is in the end and i do think that there are a variety of motivations and psycholgies that lead to rape. sometimes when it's all painted with the brush of "sadism" or whatever, i just think it's not that useful to understanding the phenomenon deeply or working toward solutions.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @ineffable.me: They label them as Congolese. Rebel leader Laurent Nkunda is labeled "Congolese", but he is a "Banyamulenge". He has Rwandan ancestry and his allegiance is to Rwanda. We consider him a Tutsi and not Congolese.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Smackdown: I know, and I def agree with you on that.

It's just that people, including women strangely enough, seem to have a hard time sympathizing with other women when it comes to rape (among other things). I don't find myself wanting to compare her situation to the one of women in her documentary. It doesn't seem the point. But I do understand better why this woman - fortunately for us all - decided to make the film she did. And I keep the insight (of her experience) in mind obvsly in viewing or reading about the film. I tend to think her insight would add to the final product, more than take away. But that's just me.

nyobserver

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @TeenageGangDeb: Man, I really hope that's what this documentary turns out to be, because I think that would effectively reduce the complaint in the NYT to "just not getting it."

I don't necessarily think she deserves the vitriol, but if it's actually a film that is more about her as stand in for the intended audience and is looking to build a bridge, then great. Perhaps it's my cynicism talking that has so become accustomed to never finding circumspect, well-made, non-histrionic documentaries anymore, especially in this, the age of Michael Moore flicks (which I love, but am not under any illusion of the journalistic integrity therein), that I might just be projecting on her my lack of faith in documentary filmmakers as a whole.

Either way, I look forward to seeing it tonight, especially if I get proved wrong.

Smackdown

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @J.D.Regent: My ex used to say all the time, "Just because you broke your leg doesn't make my sprained ankle hurt any less."

I like the way you put it much better.

broad

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Smackdown: But that's not what the documentary us about. The problem with the review is that it makes it seem as so.

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @nyobserver: I'm certainly not saying that it would be better if she hadn't made the film at all, it's just that I think there's a valid point about the relevance of a personal emotional journey via a documentary about current events, and what effect is has on the telling of the story.

Smackdown

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @J.D.Regent: I get what you're saying, but doesn't the violation -- no matter under what circumstance -- all boil down to power over the victim?

broad

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]>


+ Watch video


amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @haguenite (misses Jezebel): yeah it surprised me. everyone thinks their rape wasn't as bad as someone else's, and the other women in the group whose rapes I considered "worse" would be the first to correct me. it's all part of minimizing and self-blame, etc. hierarchies of victimization are never a great idea.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Smackdown: I agree that if this documentary uses the Congolese subjects as background figures to her own Personal Journey, because They Have It So Much Worse, than that's pretty lame. But I don't really think that's what this movie was about.

In the sense that rape culture is a global thing, however, and that women across the world all bear the threat or experience of rape in their lives, I take issue with the NYT review because it seems predicated on the basis that this is not a Real Issue. And furthermore, feminism as represented by white, western women, is something a LOT of people really have a problem with. I don't think you'll meet many people who deny the effects of patriarchy on the global community, but when western women begin to take issue with the sexism in their lives, they are consistently dismissed. Despite the fact that, the further feminism impacts western society, the more that impact will ripple across the global world as well.

To cut this long-windedness short: I see it as feminist-baiting. The woman who made this documentary has experienced sexual assault within the confines of our society and therefore focuses the reality of rape as it infiltrates women's lives everywhere. People find it easier to talk about the atrocity of rape when it's far away, but the story of her own rape removes those barriers. It puts a critical eye on western culture as well as that of the Congo. And what's more annoying than one of those whiny, uppity western feminists who's always going on about sexism over here?

TeenageGangDeb

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> It's called empathy, NYT. Sheesh.

Yeah, I don't think I can watch this. I can't even get through the reviews.

HappyHappyJoyJoy

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @broad: i don't know, survivors can be judgey too, especially if they made different bargains with themselves than someone else. i kind of doubt someone who didn't have intimate knowledge of the experience would be so ballsy to criticize as she was... but really it doesn't matter.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @roodles: Congolese are very conservative, Catholic and religious. This is a society where the norm was that marrying women had to be virgins. People don't openly talk about sex. 10 years ago, if you got knocked up you were considered damaged goods and not worthy of marriage.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Skinny Bone Jones: yeah that article is better. she says she refers to her own rape mainly because of her outrage that her rape was covered by the press, but you can't buy coverage of rape in DRC in the US press. that is quite different from being narcissistic.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @amoureuse is the Head of the Unicorn Party: I'm going to need a little more background than what you've just supplied me here. I mean, I know that this isnt the first time that rape is used as a weapon, so I always thought it was widely used by both sparring parties. Is it only one side that has recurred to raping in every different instance?

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @J.D.Regent: That's not a bet I'd make, because I think if Bellafante were a survivor, she wouldn't be so adamant against the hint of comparison.

Or maybe she would, but I just don't see that as a first reaction.

broad

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @AlannaBanana: Of course there are contextual differences. And these women have it almost certainly physically, perhaps emotionally, harder than Lisa Jackson. But! That does not mean that she should be banned from drawing a parallel between her own life and that of these women. It probably makes her feel closer to them, and perhaps they to her as well, and it could also help viewers relate more. Because us westerners may not understand what it's like to live in these horrible conditions, but we can try to understand a little bit through the things we do know.

I swear, since I started taking syntax glasses my grammar has gone to hell.

@J.D.Regent: That's really what I was trying to say. Details and circumstances may differ, but the basic violation is the same.

haguenite

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @ineffable.me: That is a big misconception. Nobody ever wants to talk about what happened to the Congo after the Rwandan Genocide, Kagame and Rwanda are making $$$ off the blood and uteruses of Congolese women.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @roodles:
Yeah, point me to a "culture" where rape survivors receive total absolution.

Meangirl

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @roodles: because they are tainted by the touch of another! they are dirty! not worthy!

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Smackdown: Personally, I think the fact that she went through something similar is exactly why she decided to shed more light on the problem, perhaps in a region where it's even more horrific than her experience.

We're all much better off considering the alternative may have been that nobody bothered to put the film together at all. I applaud her for it, regardless of her motives or intention.

nyobserver

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @amoureuse is the Head of the Unicorn Party: or at least not a rapist of its own people? I thought people on both sides were doing it?

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @roodles: "Those cultures" do not have a monopoly on shaming the victims of sexual assault. Unfortunately, that's a planet-wide thing.

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Smackdown:
Regardless of whether you were raped in Georgetown or Kivu , the pain and humiliation is the same. Rape is not a genral norm or acceptable in the Congo. This is also a form of ethnic cleansing. In the majority of the cases, the rapists are originally from Rwanda or are Banyamulenge (descendants of Rwandans born in the Congo who are not generally accepted or considered to be of Congolese Nationality. Your average Congolese male is not a rapist.


amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @haguenite (misses Jezebel): @haguenite (misses Jezebel): I mean, in terms of her actual representation of her subjects' story, and how she chose to include her own perspective and story as an aesthetic and moral choice, people can differ on interpretations and no one has seen the doc. but i was raped by a war refugee, who had himself been raped in war, and there was only one support group for survivors in the city i was living in so i was actually in a support group with other refugees who had been raped in war situations, and while we all had different situations and cultures we really did share a lot of similar emotional experiences. i mean, the way i was raped doesn't have much to do with someone who is raped in marriage or on a date or in childhood, but there are touchstones to the survivor experience that we all shared.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @ineffable.me: But does anyone know why the shame of rape falls on the victim in these cultures still? is it some lingering belief that the women provoked it or could have prevented it b/c surely the husbands and family members must see that men with guns are forcing this situation. Not to be naive but as bad as the rapes themselves are, it's worse that afterwards why are the women shunned?

roodles

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Scoregasm: Yeah, you know what? Her movie! If she wants to make it all about her own rape, who's to tell her not to?

Trixie from Toronto

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> The NYT reviewer gave an equally cold/dismissive review to a documentary on geriatric care recently. Apparently she doesn't connect well w/the realities of the world like rape and aging.

AGreenEyeDevil

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @haguenite (misses Jezebel): But there are definitely contextual differences between the experiences of the filmmaker and the women in this film. who continue to live in a war-torn country under constant threat of further violence, where there likely aren't decent health services, let alone support systems for rape survivors. And some now have to live with serious physical trauma to the point of incontinence for the rest of their lives. It is different... it's horrible across the board but these situations are not the same thing.

AlannaBanana

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> Also, the quotation with which NYT finds fault?

"The women of the Congo gave me a new definition of grace."

I am not reading that as egocentricity but as a beautiful comment on the subjects of her documentary - the Congolese women.

Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @BadHairLife: The same thing that happens to 16 year old Florida girls who feel it is fine to continue beating senseless their former "friend" even *after* they have rendered here unconscious once already. We must, as human beings, find a better way.

Kindness. We must learn/teach/practice kindness agressively in our society. Give it the time, attention, money and other resources that we give to punishment and nasty amusements. That would make a difference.

ItchykooParker

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @SarahMC: Oops, hit submit too soon.
I wanted to say that rape is used as a weapon of war against women AND against opposing armies. It's all a big clusterfuck.


SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @amoureuse is the Head of the Unicorn Party: I know, right? What person would say "well, she wasn't raped in a war and therefore she can't understand what it was like for me". Rape is rape is rape, even if people will deal with it differently.

haguenite

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Banana Grabber: Yeah but I think you can make the case for rape as a weapon of war in some fronts of WWII, certainly in Bosnia, hell even Vietnam if you want to go there. I wish I knew more about it actually, but as a student of conflict I can't get around the idea that, intuitively, rape has been a weapon in more conflicts than just the Congo.

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @SarahMC: i think the person who responded to you was just making the point that all rapes are not the same or motivated by the same things or coming from the same psychology or reducible to sadism (though for sure some rapes are motivated by sadism).

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @hortense: also, while not as drastic, the women raped in the US aren't exactly supported and thus perhaps "shunned and abandoned"? And perhaps the NYT writer doesn't realize that rape is largely ignored in the US which is run by "men who condone the prevailing systematic brutalities"?

ugh. that review was so frustrating.

krazykarot

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> The thing is - our military contractors are brutalizing their own co-workers, people they have no reason to attack. [www.thenation.com]

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Smackdown: @AlannaBanana: Perhaps her "self-realization" was not the motivation for the documentary, but an effect of it.

Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I don't know. Is it the same thing? I mean, yes, rape is rape, and all of it is fucking horrible, terrible shit, but like many other crimes, doesn't context play a part? Doesn't the political upheaval and the social attitudes towards rape in Africa play at least a significant role in the pervasiveness of it? Is it really just a situation of "we're the same, you and I, because of this shared horrific experience?" I don't necessarily know that it is.

If she's using her experience as a method in order to encourage women to open up and speak freely about something with great social stigma and shame attached, then more power to her. But I don't particularly have a lot of interest in watching a documentary about how One Woman's Journey To The Center Of The Congo Taught Her Valuable Lessons About How She Is Really Worth It And Doesn't Have It So Bad After All.

I don't know, man. I'm not feeling the rage, and normally I'm pretty on level with most of you. Again, I can't say until I've watched it, which I will most def do tonight, but I'm just saying I don't think the NYT review is really all that horrible at all. I think the reviewer has a point, which she might be making, ungracefully, but one that probably could stand to be made, at least in the interest of open dialogue.

Smackdown

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @JessicaLovejoy: Boosh and/or Kakow!:

I don't know, the original statement makes sense to me. Rape has always been a byproduct of war, one of the unspoken, countless additional atrocities that occur outside the "official" battlefield.

BUT, I think the point is that in the conflict in the Congo, it has become not a secret, underground "side effect" of the war itself, (of soldiers raping women as you say "because they can") but it is now a battle tactic, a specific weapon that is used in every minor skirmish. An sanctioned, official sort of act-as-weapon.

Banana Grabber

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I don't know, maybe doing a documentary on this subject helped her to gain some perspective on her own experience while at the same time draw attention to a horrific situation that not that many people in this country may be aware of? I don't see the harm in that.

Hamsterpants

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> It's interesting that the reviewer infers that Ms. Jackson's husband is referring to emotional unpreparedness for marriage. Obviously US/Western males no longer view women as property 'cuz feminism has completely achieved its goals and it is all sunshine & lollipops now.

nekosneako

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> OK, read the SF Chron article, y'all. She does most of the talking herself from an interview, and she sounds like a strong, amazing, brave woman.

buggeroff

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> god representation of atrocity ethics are really tough. really couldn't say much until i see it. how much you want to bet the nytimes reviewer is also a survivor, though?

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @SarahMC: I'm reading a book right now called Mass Hate: the Global Rise of Genocide and Terror, and from what I've read so far is that very few of these men who commit mass atrocities are actually sadists. It is a really informative read and goes into depth about the mass rapes of Muslims in Bosnia, the Rwandan genocide, and of course the Holocaust, and the most mind blowing similarity between all three of these wars is that most of the people who committed these crimes were people who were quite loving to their families, and in general they were fairly well-adjusted members of society. It really just shows how animalistic humans really are in that they can be 'brainwashed' (for lack of a better for at the moment) into thinking that what they are doing is acceptable.

frecklefacefreak

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @OMG a Girl Gamer: But that's what's particularly interesting about the Soviet case; at this point, they had already crossed onto German territory. They were winning. I've seen it put down basically to revenge for what the Nazis did--20m dead Soviets--but it's been ridiculously under-studied.

Good point about the increase of rape at bases. I wonder if it's a real increase in the number of incidents, or an increase in reporting/complaints--does anyone know?

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> Kudos to Ms. Jackson for sharing her story and actually caring. This Congolese woman is not offended in any way shape or form that she tried to relate her story and pain with the Congolese women.

amoureuse would like to borrow a dollar

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @OMG a Girl Gamer: They love and respect their mothers. This has nothing to do with their mothers. The other people aren't regarded as people, by raping the women they are destroying villages and another entire culture. Men dont want their raped wives because they are tainted, they get so fucked up from the rapes that they cant have any babies and when they get pregnant and have mixed babies its still wiping out an entire race.

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I find the New York Sun review as infuriating and disgusting as the NYT.

So because she "shied" away from these subjects her film is flawed? Perhaps even rendered moot?

God forbid a women try to shed light on a subject, or not even shed light but let the VICTIMS TELL THEIR story. She must be smeared for not answering all questions on rape and humanity.

Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I started to read the review in the WaPo this morning and had to stop because I was crying.

cyberextrovert

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> Maybe that's the only way she CAN handle the situation. By relating it to what she went through. If I were in the Congo trying to make a documentary of this I think I'd last a day. I'm amazed she was able to make this, and as hard as it is going to be to watch, I know I need to watch it. I just don't understand why everyone is so upset about her relating it back to herself.

Le Kangourou de Kataroo

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @SarahMC: The entire review is a big ball of WTF?

hortense

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @rah29: Don't forget the increase of rape at American bases in other countries that are not even in a war.

OMG a Girl Gamer

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I believe that if the world was forced to confront issues such as this on a daily basis, a whole lot more would be done to ensure that these kinds of horrific actions cease. It is all to easy to get lost in anticipation of the SATC movie or old reruns of Friends, but if we were all forced with having to face images such as this on a daily basis.... just saying. Kudos to Jackson for making such a brutally honest documentary.

AnderBobo

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> Fuck you and your douchebag name, Ginia Bellafante.

Christ.

buggeroff

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I watched a show about a doctor who does what he can to physically repair these women. The damage is horrific. Good luck to those of you who watch, I don't think I can.

brookidy

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @JessicaLovejoy: Boosh and/or Kakow!: Raping to win seems pretty standard vis a vis war crimes and how they happen. Abu Ghraib is another example of this mindset -- "We may not be winning this war, but we can dominate people at the individual level by stripping them of their humanity." You know? Rape is entirely based on ideas of dominance/submission. That's why it's such a prevalent crime in violent conflicts.

I do not follow the logic of the NYT review. It seems to me that the implication is, "How dare this white western woman relate her own rape to the rape epidemic and traumas of women in the Congo". It's another attempt to divide related communities, as far as I see it. And it seems to deny the global presence of patriarchy and rape culture and how those two things feed off each other.

TeenageGangDeb

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @JessicaLovejoy: Boosh and/or Kakow!: Raping is a mentally power based act. What the soldiers cannot win by killing the men, they can do by breaking the women. They must not have any reapect or love for their mothers if they can do this.

@BadHairLife: Years of poverty, famine, and government corruption slowy warp men into thinking a "survive or die" mentality. Lack of good education by means of not being able to afford it has young boys going to other schools of "learning."

Stories like this made me always want the slap the shit out of the spoiled girls who complained their life sucks because they have a curfew, or a spending limit, or that so-and-so won't go out with them.

OMG a Girl Gamer

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @rah29: Sorry it occurs to me that the 'not just in Africa' part of my comment might be read as flippant; I don't mean it in that way at all, it actually really annoys me when rape in war is treated as this thing specific to African conflict, it's totally ethnocentric and wrong.

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Smackdown: I understand your point of view but by god it always upsets me.

ineffable.me

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> Yeah, so Jackson is engaging in a bit of ethnographic research perspective. GOOD!

FFS, is the NYT really say that this is such a troubling and horrifying topic that a white women who was only raped by THREE men, has no business bringing personal perspective into this documentary?

Isn't this horrible situation festering in the Congo because people are feeling too overwhelmed or too removed from the atrocities? It's really okay to document this on film, but HOW DARE SHE try to relate on a personal level with her 'subjects'. Why that just flies in the face of the whole "us/them" dynamic!

Assholes.

Meangirl

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @hortense: Oh my GOD that's offensive.

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @SarahMC: It happens a LOT though in conflicts, and not just in Africa. In fact, one of the least-remembered aspects of the Second World War was the mass rape of German women by the Soviet soldiers; it was also very prevalent in the Balkans in the 1990s. As a phenomenon of war it's shamefully under-studied (I wonder why).

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Smackdown: I agree with you, actually, and I hope that she is careful. But I think that the NYT review was still shitty and dismissive of her experiences.

TruculentandUnreliable

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Smackdown: EXACTLY what I was trying to say, thank you!

AlannaBanana

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @Le Kangourou de Kataroo...TRY IT!: I don't know, I kind of agree with that NYT writer that it's gross to use African rape victims as like, your path to self-realization.

AlannaBanana

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> @hortense: "Ms. Jackson leaves the phrase dangling there to suggest that the anguishes of sexual violence are experienced universally and that all shame is essentially the same shame."

Isn't it, though? I mean, obviously, these women have suffered in a way that I cannot even imagine, and have suffered more than the filmmaker, but at its heart, motivations for rape and responses to rape are pretty much the same across cultures.

TruculentandUnreliable

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]> I don't know, I am going to have to reserve judgment until I actually see it, but I think I get what the NYT is saying - I think often there can be this sort of "ooh, it's just like ME" situation that arises, especially when Americans or Europeans do documentaries about terrible situations, third-world countries, that sort of thing.

It's like, instead of just shining a light on the atrocity that's going on, some lady with an amazing amount of privilege in comparison (and I want to make it perfectly clear that in no way do I not have compassion for what she went through), has to compare it to her experiences, make it relevant. There's something about that that can kind of strike me as imperialistic - the magic black people shedding light on one's own tragedy, as though they're totems and not real human beings.

Like I said, I haven't seen the film, but I think that can definitely happen in documentaries, and it's debatable as to whether that's an effective way to communicate in a nonfiction film, or if one has a higher obligation to impartiality and distance.

Smackdown

]]> <![CDATA[Critics Find <em>The Greatest Silence</em> "Chilling" But "Frustrating"]]>