<![CDATA[Skin Deep - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @No-You-Cannot-Touch-My-Hair:
I live in London and get the same thing, "Were you adopted?" "Are you sure you're American?"...my American friend who is blonde hair and blue eyed gets no such questioning. She looks American, or what people believe we are.

That being said, sometimes it's okay not to be the typical American...not everyone aspires to that.

thatonegirlsays

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> Um, at least in present day China, you'll see a white woman and her make-believe hubby hawking some product in English before you'll see any shade of brown hawking that same product.
Why? Not just because they're supposed to be American, but because they are *white* supposed-Americans and that is something that is supposed to make all the difference in the world.

So bump this talk about "back-in-the-day, working in the fields meant you were poor and thats why dark was bad" crap. Let's talk about right now, in this day and age, "beauty/wealth/power," basically all that is desirable is translated into *white*
Locals here will never believe that I am American because they have "seen American movies, and Americans white." Once someone told me that, all I could do was try and educate him (still didn't believe me in the end) and then grit my teeth at my own country for perpetuating and exporting this image of white beauty. Movies, TV shows, beauty product ads, clothing spots, EVERYTHING. For one of the most diverse countries, can't we do better? How bad is it that people here believe Americans are all white???

The problem persists.

No-You-Cannot-Touch-My-Hair

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @beastybeatsy: Are you serious??? You're actually defending the actions of some nutty power-crazed fucks in invading a foreign land, brutalizing the people there, pillaging and robbing that land and stealing other people's money, bringing it back to the home country as tribute for some snotty monarch and imposing a legacy of shame and misery and poverty on those people?
You're defending this???
God I wish you had defended more familiar assholey villains like Nazis and slave-owners instead. People on this board would have ripped you a new one.

Crazydogggz

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @OhhYeah: well said.

peliroja

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136: Yes. They do contain a bleaching agent. Hydroquinone.

Ironically, found in some studies to be a carcinogenic.

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @inflightequipment: I keess you.

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @lisas: Anshul? Anjul?

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @AfroGuapo: A) Yes, I'm sure it fell on deaf ears, because the racism -- to whatever extent it was historically predicated on classism -- has been internalized by a large percentage of the population against whom it is perpetuated. (Much like the lady's husband -- may he rot in jail -- in the lead story in the post.) Willie Lynch at work.

B) Yes, your mom is the Queen of Awesome.

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @VPea: I'm thinking "none of your business unless I wish to share it with you" might be a good response.

But then again, I've been labeled *gasp* confrontational from time to time.

Which is why, on the heels of LeBron and Gisele and Annie and Vogue, I'm just reading this discussion as opposed to wading in with my usual three cents.

(And also, by the time the kids are made to place their information on a job application/Census page, perhaps there will be a "multiracial" category for them to elect.)

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> one of my best friends is an adoptee from india-abandoned at birth because she was a girl-and because she was very dark.
she's 20 now, and a beautiful young woman with thick, black, wavy hair and skin the color of chocolate. it's so sad that people can't see the beauty in their own skins, and go to such extreme lengths to achieve it.
*interesting sidenote: in victorian era europe and america, white women took the fair skin thing to the extreme-not only did they wear long sleeves, high necks, and ankle-length dresses in the middle of summer, they drank vinegar, washed with lemon juice, and bleached their skin to look whiter. another common practice was to lightly paint on pale blue veins (!) in order to give the illusion of nearly transparent skin.
freaky.

astralgravy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> My BFF went to India for a friend's wedding and she recounted the following ad she saw on Indian TV for whitening cream. Young woman lands her dream job interview, starts using whitening cream, lands dream job. Credit? Whitening cream of course. Needless to say, we were both horrified.

kikichanelconspiracy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I teach 8th graders in a very diverse school in Queens in NYC; my students (and their parents) come from China, India, Trinidad, Nigeria, Cuba, Pakistan, South Korea, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, and probably a few countries I'm missing out (as well as born-and-bred New Yorkers from all over the city). You'd think this is the happiest happy-rainbow class you ever saw and that you'd NEVER hear kids insulting each other over how dark or light their skin is.

I'm sad to report that the African-American kids still, in 2008, use "dark" as an insult. I've literally watch them stand next to each other and compare their arms to see who's darker.

paxetaurora

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shiningstar: I fully agree with you that it is tragic how people have been brainwashed to think that European features/white skin are the standard of beauty. I don't want my previous comment to be taken out of context and appear as if I don't understand that this is a reality everywhere. I think it's very very sad. My main purpose for writing that comment though was that I didn't fully realize the extent to which it was "Holy Grail" until I was poked and prodded and had my picture taken with complete Thai strangers solely because of the way I looked. For me personally, being apart of that white skin "ideal" (can't stress the quote, unquote enough on that one) had always been a source of self-consciousness for me, because I was always teased for being so "pasty" (called such things as Casper, Powder, etc.). So my personal ideal for a very long time was to be tan so I could stop being teased and not feel as though I was blinding people if I wore something outrageous such as, oh, I don't know... shorts. Another reality of life is that people will always want something they don't have, want to be something they're not. Dark people will want to be lighter. Pale people will want to be darker. I am glad to finally have eliminated the totally unnecessary stress of trying to be what I'll never be. So in short, yes it is ridiculous that there is the "European ideal", and in fact, I wish there could be no ideal at all and that everyone could just love what they have.

OhhYeah

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> OMG that is horrible...I love the deep color of women from India...it is absolutely GORGEOUS. They are what make this world so beautiful...who wants a bunch of light skinned people walking around...BOOOORING. The rainbow is what makes it interesting. This makes me so sad.

JouJou

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @N i s t h a: I wonder if these western skin lighting products are made more for scaring as someone mentioned. Also, if we all stopped buying products from beauty products that did sell skin lighteners over seas...well we wouldn't have any left to buy. How can we get women to embrace their natural skin tones when even in the communities themselves, there is a bias against skin colors. I have been told many times by fellow black people that they would never date someone dark.

tranquilmademoiselle

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @peliroja: This actually happens everywhere in the world, except for maybe Sweden or something. That's the point of this post. Fair skin and its related features aren't just a novelty in some places like Japan or Thailand, but everywhere on the planet. Hopefully beyond making OhhYeah "appreciate what you have," it also made you realize that our world is a completely sick place when everyone on the globe has somehow been brainwashed after thousands of years to think that white skin and European features are the Holy Grail of appearances.

shiningstar

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I think people are missing the point by arguing if such atrocities are the fault of Britain.

MisfitMolly

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136: @Atsumi: Yeah, I think that the really cheap, off-brand creams are probably horrible for your skin and contain a bleaching agent. Also though, I think that the answer to how do the products work is the same answer as to how do many cosmetics products work? THEY DONT!

I think that the pressure to be more fair-skinned has created a demand for these types of creams (diet industry anyone???) but I have lived in many countries where they have a prominent place one the pharmacy shelves and really... I have never seen any indication that the products do anything more than helping to lighten scars and even out your skin tone.

LaFemme

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> Tyra had this issue on ANTM: that absolutely stunning Indian girl whose name escapes me originally showed up wearing green contact lenses and trying to look paler like a Bollywood actress.

lisas

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @HotNuttyBrownie: Upon further reflection, I guess calling Kareena "Fatface McGee" is an example of girl-on-girl violence. There are plenty of reasons to hate her besides her face, so maybe I should revise...

Can'tAct McGee it is!

HotNuttyBrownie

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @beastybeatsy: Oh god, barf. Colonial apologists. "Not everything about slavery was bad!" "There were positive aspects to the Holocaust!" Yeah yeah yeah they're not the same but in a way they are, when - so random - they just all happen to involve rape/theft/murder?

Also, it's not THAT much of a stretch to connect this case with American/European fashion designers' model casting preferences. I kind of see the designers' rejection of black and other models of color as perpetuating the same kind of racist attitude prevalent in the India case. Especially now that Vogue has cast her claws upon India?

And I know that none of you meant this...but it's just a pet peeve of mine when people say "mixed race people are so beautiful" as if ethnic beauty needs to somehow be modified in order to be beautiful. Also, everyone's sort of already mixed race.

inflightequipment

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @milkshakenhoney: I remember the scandale when Fatface McGee (aka Kareena Kapoor) called Bipasha Basu "kali billi" (black cat). Fucking ridiculous.

Take the lingering self-hatred left after British rule, add some classism, and throw in a *smidge* of North-Indian-on-South-Indian racism to taste, and voila! Fair And Lovely souffle.

HotNuttyBrownie

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136:
They probably do have a bleaching agent.

I was prescribed to a bleaching cream by my dermatologist because I have Morphea. And while you can't get rid of the condition itself, you can fade the spots it makes on you.

Atsumi

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @LaFemme: I wonder how those skin lightening creams in Asia and India work then? I mean, do they actually contain some sort of bleaching agent? That can't possibly be good for the skin!

shorty63136

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136: Yes, I was going to add this about some of the lightening creams. I use them because I have acne scars on my face, reddish or purpleish mostly, and it does seem to help them fade. My skin tone however, has not changed even one half shade. They sort of "brighten" my skin, as in make it glow-y, but not change in color.

LaFemme

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> Whenever I go to India, there are so many skin lightening products by Western brands like Garnier and Neutrogena lining convenience stores. Even in serials, the dark skinned girl is the bitch. In movies, actresses are only fair. In one of India's favorite Hindi modern films, "Vivah", the fair-skinned girl is demure, can cook, and gets the husband, while the dark-skinned girl is mischievous (funner, in my opinion), caked with "fairness cream", and indirectly blamed for the "blemishes" on the latter's body when a fire occurs. News anchors are hardly ever past a medium tan.

No matter how "fat" or "dark" someone is, you describe your daughter as "fair, slim, and short" in the marital ads, where the number of pages exceeds that of sports or business or even, at times, news in general.

My cousin is currently looking for a 5'4", light-skinned, 50 kg girl. He's having trouble finding one.

I WONDER WHY?

N i s t h a

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @LaComtesse: Most people I know wouldn't miss out on an opportunity to call someone out.

Atsumi

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @ElleL: Yeah exactly - while there may be a correlation between fair skin connoting higher class because it suggested that one didn't have to toil in the fields (like dark skinned people), colonialism and conquest and modern day marketing plays a role in all this nonsense. My mother petititioned the church we attended to have the picture of Jesus taken down and a new one made depicting Christ Black because it would be inconceivable for him to be white/fair with blue eyes with straight hair given geography and biblical verse "hair of lambswool". It fell on deaf ears. Suffice it to say, we stopped going to that church. Is she fierce or what.

AfroGuapo

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @allet: Hey, my family lives in China!

ragdoll

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Atsumi: You are a gentlewoman and a scholar, my dear. We all fall victim to saying silly crap we don't actually mean. I knew this was probably the case with you, but I couldn't not call ya out (I myself appreciate such call-outs).

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @OhhYeah: I've heard that the same thing happens to blond-haired blue-eyed individuals in Japan (and possibly in other Asian nations, I have no idea). I think it was in an article about why David Beckham is so wildly popular over there (I mean, aside from the obvious soccer skills).

I used to work with a girl from Delhi who used to get really upset at things like this and said that she liked to think of herself as "brown and proud." She was also really sad that huge Bollywood stars like Aishwarya Ray were revered for their fairer skin.

peliroja

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @bowleserised: Yes, and a lot of bad things happened. And I think you can't blame the do-gooders, people do what they think is best at the time. They always will. Give it a couple of hundred years and people's opinions (even the people who could have identical personal histories to yours) would be so radically different to your own. Context has it's place.

Also I'm finding this argument a bit weird, since unless everyone can trace their familial history back to the dawn of humanity and none have ever moved more than a few hundred miles from where you are now, aren't we all a little bit guilty of nicking someone else's land at some point?

beastybeatsy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: oh I do understand that. Youre then like - um you meant that as if it is superior?

People think I am black/white alot and it annoys me only because people where I am from feel that if I dont sound like Rosie Perez or occasionally do a JLO Fly Girl dance I am not Latina ?

I think we can all agree that people are fucking crazy. Not us though :O) We get it!

VPea

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @LaComtesse: That was inappropriate. I'm sorry to you, and anyone else who was offended by that comment.

Honestly, I think that man deserves more than 2 years for torturing her so much. She had to be going through so much pain to resort to something like that.

Again, sorry.

Atsumi

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Macloserboy (Who Is Finally On Facebook For You Bitches): Only because (due to more modern technology) they had a further reach into Africa. The Ancient Egyptians had way more slaves during their short run of things than the Brits ever did - they just ruled a smaller piece of the world. You can't say they didn't exploit their slaves. The Romans fucking had their slaves fight lions and shit to the death!

And you can't totally blame them (the Anglo-Saxons) for 1000s of years they were being enslaved by everyone - Vikings, Romans, Britons (where the word Brit came from - but they're French). They get down to Africa and the Caribbean and stuff and they're like, Shit - here's some people *we* can enslave for a change. It's all circular.

distractedbyshinyobjects

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @TeenageGangDeb: Well spake. Additionally, that helps explain why white westerners often find themselves objects of desire in foreign countries. Not only do they look different, but they represent what many people (unfortunately) view as the dominant global culture (plus american chicks are easy, right?) I have been in places where some people think it's a coup to catch an American squeeze (until you try and marry him or her; then a family member might protest).

Daglar

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @rah29: good point! I still feel like there is an colonial/cultural influence, and have so heard from my desi friends, but I'm sure it's mediated by the homegrown industry too. I'm honestly not as up to date on India as I am on East Asian trends. But point well taken.

roodles

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @SkippingTowardsJaded and the Muff Mob: Hugs to you. That sounds just terrible. Thanks for being willing to put it out there.

petuniacat

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: That was not what I said. Not even a little bit.

My point still stands: You can't blame everything on colonialism.

beastybeatsy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: Right, yes, sorry I didn't see that post--the thing is the Indian mass media is quite heavily Indian, Hollywood can't compete there. So while you make a good point, I don't think it really applies in this case so well.

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I am so white I'm pretty much transparent (something that took me a long time to accept/appreciate) and when I went to Thailand I was amazed at how many Thai natives at the markets, shops, etc. would take my arm and just want to touch my skin and look at it with awe because I am so white. White skin is definitely highly revered in that part of the world. It kind of freaked me out at first, but it ended up being one of those experiences that helped me to appreciate what I have when I was so self-conscious about it previously. I kind of see a small parallel with the Indians' skin lightening and the slew of self-tanners/tanning beds I used throughout my teen-years to change my looks to be more "socially acceptable". Now I just don't care. Indian people are some of the most beautiful people to me... its sad when they can't see it themselves.

OhhYeah

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I don't really think that Dodai was trying to say that Western fashion standards drove this man to criticize his wife's dark skin. Rather I think she makes the point that skin-color based prejudice is pervasive and insidious, no matter what part of the world one is in.
And as a dark-skinned Indian woman who has never been able to form a relationship with anyone else from India because I am so self-conscious of my skin color, I am really appreciative of this post. It's good to know that it isn't just all in my head.


Devonna

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Elin:

Skin colour is an issue in many cultures because no one wants to be called the equivalent of a redneck hick, no matter how enlightened and modernized societies (even in the most traditional of countries) are today.

PetiteGal

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: You've got a point but I think you're giving a little too much credit to the influence of Western media--in a country where the home-grown media industry (Bollywood) is WAY more pervasive and powerful than Western imports. The colour-related aspects of the caste system are, I think, quite entrenched with or without any Western cultural imperialism!

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @tranquilmademoiselle: I think it depends in which black family you were raised. I didn't know about the light v. dark thing until I got to high school and came into contact with other blacks who informed me of this strange behavior.

AfroGuapo

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> and for anyone who loves rageh omar (bbc): this is a clip of his doco about child slavery and an article. [news.bbc.co.uk]

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @VPea: grazie. They are hideously beautiful ;-)

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I was just thinking about how I don't understand this thing about skin color. I don't understand how it can be important for some. Not like this. This is absolutly devastating.
And not thinking that the number of 'ethnic' modduls shown in magazeens is important, is sticking your head in the sand. Skin color does matter even though I just don't get why. I mean, why do intelligent 20yr olds who have been brought up in an enlightend society that strives towards tolerance assume things because of ethnicity?

Elin

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136: yes, I feel bad because being sarcastic isn't conducive to discussion but, c'mon!

roodles

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @petuniacat: In my family there was always turmoil over skin. My older sister always felt like she was look down on because she was the darkest. She would always talk about my hair and how I was lucky to have "good" hair. My mother just fed us negativity. She would always talk about how she got through on looks and being light skinned. I mean my older sister and I (my youngest sister has autism so in a weird way she is sort of lucky when it comes to this subject)got a lot of shit from my mom about our looks and skin. When she was mad we would be either nappy headed heifers or just fat heifers. My mom always had issues about identity and she passed them down to us. Sadly my sister just gave up and a lot of her behavior shows how lowly she values herself.

Skipping Toward Jaded

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @VPea: good point, identification is intensely personal and not everyone identifies in ways that are politically expedient or neat, which is great b/c it makes us interesting! I guess I'm talking about a few people I have known that have been shady about announcing their mixed-ness, which isn't representative of most people. Also, with the way I look (freckles, slender nose, hair texture) people ask if I am "mixed" and it always sounds like they think they are giving me a compliment, which creeps me out.

roodles

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: there have been slaves in human society going back to 1800 BC, and perhaps further. it doesn't mean it's right, but it does mean it's still going on today. children are the most vulnerable.

[stopchildslavery.com]

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Jezebabe...is a stern and angry midget!!!!:

But at this point in time, now that media is global, the issue isn't as much where did these attitudes about race come from, (although knowing and explaining can help), but how do we change them. Because if you are told every day that black is ugly and your skin is wrong *and* you've never seen a woman who looks like you portrayed as "beautiful," except maybe half-naked in a music video, in an aggressively sexual context, you (and the people judging you) are a lot less likely to break away from their beliefs about what is and isn't beautiful.

samethingwedoeverynightpinky

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Daglar: I would also add that beauty standards are tied closely with wealth. In a country where we don't starve, extreme thin-ness (the result of expensive diets or drugs or simply not eating) is what's desired; beauty products, procedures, and regimens are also expensive. The color caste -- in India, in America, and elsewhere -- also ties with wealth and status. Light-skinned blacks were often the result of mixed race relations with slave owners and they worked in the house; Darker-skinned blacks worked in the fields and were decidedly lower on the caste than house slaves. Caste and color are closely tied in most societies (if not all) and they both have a lot to do with wealth.

@Jezebabe...is a stern and angry midget!!!!: I don't think anyone is trying to blame the fashion industry, but the lack of visibility given to people of color in the media IS a factor in racism. Whether it's the chicken or the egg, I think, doesn't really matter, because it is undeniably one of the biggest links in the chain.

TeenageGangDeb

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: I'm totally praying that was meant as sarcastic. I'll take it as such. :)

shorty63136

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @beastybeatsy: I just find the whole notion of it bad - so I can't excuse the do-gooders either. I know many white Europeans passionately loved and understood their adopted homelands and even did some good, but they got there because of, well, colonialism. Which stinks.

bowleserised

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> Ah, the lovely legacies of colonialism, apatheid, imperialism and conquest and effects of subliminal marketing/advertising to "brainwash" people. Personally, I am tired of seeing the standard paradigm of darker hued men and fairer skinned women as you see it ad nauseum and it indeed perpetuates one standard. As the product of a light-skinned black man from the South and a dark-skinned woman from Carribbean and Central America, I say vive la difference in all manifestations. For the advertising marketing gurus on here, please implore your creative directors to start doing more innovative non-traditional casting. I really liked the Old Navy ad with the dark skinned black girl walking with her white girlfriends and the white boy opening the door for her back at the apartment. Honestly, I am sick and tired of my black niece screeching when she sees Hannah Montana, Hillary Duff and whatever other fungible interchangeable white girl pop starlets thinking that's the norm/standard.

AfroGuapo

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Daglar: Sure. But I call historical context again, looking back with 20:20 21stC vision on historical events doesn't work.

beastybeatsy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: also I think it is about not wanting to alienate one parent more than having to let the world know they are mixed. If i just call myself Latino then I am ignoring my mother who is half Asian for instance? Not that I am desperate for anyone to know but I get called so many random races/ethnicities that I am proud to state my heritage if properly asked

VPea

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @beastybeatsy:
Just because they meant well doesn't mean they actually did good deeds. Colonization left behind arbitrarily drawn borders, artificially constructed social classes and a boat load of issues related to economic development...we're still dealing with their "well-intentioned" deeds today.

And maybe there are positives, but the negatives definitely outweigh them.

thatonegirlsays

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: I can understand eye and nose jobs, as well as hair colour, but I can't when it comes to skin colour. Even if the media weren't so powerful, you'd still see beauty products that promise to lighten skin.

PetiteGal

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @beastybeatsy: not everything about slavery was bad either! Now black people have Christianity and social programs and our own TV channel. Thank god we aren't heathens anymore!

roodles

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @beastybeatsy: but has anything really changed? aren't we just the same as ever? hamas was a democratically elected (if somewhat odious) govt, but they're the wrong sort of democratically elected govt, apparently. how come "spreading democracy" costs so many lives?

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> My daughter is Korean and has beautiful olive skin. She still has strong attachments to her relatives and birth mother in Korea so she visits as often as she can (she mostly grew up there). I'm continually distressed when I hear her putting herself down because she considers herself TOO DARK to be pretty?! She is a lovely girl. But she says she will never be considered pretty in her own culture because others in her homeland refer to her as "colored".
Nothing makes me cry more. I think I'm common (blue eyes, ivory skintone, red hair) but my daughter who is bewitchingly exotic wishes she looked 'common' like me and not her bewitchingly exotic self. I hope we can eventually resolve all of her immigration issues so she can stay here and, hopefully, find someone who will love her for herself.

Gretchen

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @charlotte corday: "we can blame the brits for a lot of things..." or something. I was being facetious.

beastybeatsy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @LaComtesse: WOW thanks for sharing - what an incredibly gorgeous family. wow.

@roodles: this is a fair point. The SO calls himself black because he is brown but I have seen firsthand that white people consider him black and black people consider him white. It was shocking to me. Hopefully as diversity in America becomes more of the norm it wont be an big an issue (wishful thinking). I'll just hope my baby is as gorgeous as LaComtesse's uncles' :O) the beauty will maybe take away some of the ethnic confusion for them

VPea

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @beastybeatsy: A lot of it was bad, though.

Daglar

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Noah D: I agree!!!! Echo chamber FTW!!!

Jezebabe

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @charlotte corday: Ah, indeed.

Talk of how bad colonies were makes me antsy- especially when people take into account none of the historical context, in the 1700s most white people truely believed that they were doing good things. Also land was power. And not everything about colonisation was bad.

beastybeatsy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I just spoke in the stairwell with a girl I work with (I totally didn't want to offend) who I though was of Hindu heritage - turns out she's Guianese but her great-greats were from India - and she was as blown away as all of us here. She said she doesn't see that in her culture.

shorty63136

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @CashMoneyHoney: But they didn't see anything wrong with referring to your boss as "the Black girl" instead of using her name...insanity...what a bunch of morons...

Sarasvati49

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> Hmm, I'm having a hard time thinking there is any kind of real direct relationship between the racial and color politics in India and American fashion models. I'd think that the the issue of color in India is older than the fashion industry. I don't want to get axed, but let's try to not jump into conclusions with alarmist condemnations of the media and so forth, issues of beauty and race and body image and female ideals are very complicated, they're not all caused by glancing at skinny blonde models on magazines...

Jezebabe

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @beastybeatsy: exactly. the idea that lighter skin is better goes way, way, back.

look at the way people see jesus: white? are you kidding me? so a man living in jerusalem is white as the driven snow with bright blue eyes?

ElleL

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @ragdoll: My family lives in Asia and it is virtually impossible to buy face wash/moisturizer/any cosmetic that doesn't promise to whiten your skin as well as contain an SPF. Visiting them is a surreal change from being in the US where so many people tan or use bronzer to achieve that "ideal" carrot-y glow.

allet

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @PetiteGal: um, they are when they are specifically trying to appear more "Western or caucasian" and skin color preferences - although not originally about race in many countries - become reinforced by the sheer glut of white actors, TV shows, movies, models and standards of beauty that we have been exporting to those countries since mass media was invented. i don't know how to explain better.

roodles

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136: Absolutely true. My great-grandmother married off all of their daughters to light-skinned mulattoes, and encouraged them to do the same to their daughters and sons.

And by the time my mother was born in the early 1960s, that woman cried tears of joy because she was the lightest grandbaby of them all.

mercymercyme

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @beastybeatsy: ooh, you left out the belgians in the congo, etc. they were motherfuckers. also, they and the catholic church laid the foundations for the genocide in rwanda!

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @cannotedit: His rationale is not just in the IT field, but in general. He wants to distance himself from the ugly perception that some folks believe that folks who aren't "white" will have issues with understanding complicated IT concepts due to some perceived cultural or language gap. Which is, as you mentioned, blatantly false--some of the most brilliant tech people I've ever met were from all over the world and spoke any number of languages.

It is such a sad and ugly world.

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136: I adore them, though they're not babies anymore! Boy is now 12, girl is 10!

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Macloserboy (Who Is Finally On Facebook For You Bitches): umm, please back that statement up.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @beastybeatsy: hello! sorry, love, didn't catch your question.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @LaComtesse: Gorgeous little babies!!

shorty63136

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> There is a distinct irony in American women giving themselves cancer to be darker whereas non-white women all over the world are killing themselves (literally and metaphorically) to be lighter skinned.

ohgoodness

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Macloserboy (Who Is Finally On Facebook For You Bitches): No more than the Dutch, the Spanish, or the French- all of whom had giant world colonies. All of whom are European.

beastybeatsy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @tscheese: That is really sad. Mixed-race white/Asian Americans (and I'm totally generalizing here) have a strange relationship with race, specifically because many of us can "pass" for white. I certainly can't, but I was jealous of my half Asian/white best friend as a child. She had light brown hair and green eyes. Why was I jealous? Because the fact that she looked more white, even to my 7 year-old brain, meant that she was more beautiful.

Hiro

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @VPea: sorry to say, i think it would be easiest for a mixed race child to identify how she looks just for practicality. Identification is political and I get a little antsy when people are obsessed with delineating every "mixed" part of their racial lineage. Halle Berry identifies as black because she mostly looks black, Mariah Carey has more leeway. As a black person I'm leery of people who are obsessed with making sure everyone knows that they are "mixed" with something. It seems more like a way of distancing themselves from blackness than respecting their heritage. Just my opinion.

roodles

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136:, @GeekyChic: Thanks for the history lesson. Rough stuff.

A few years ago I was working on an archaeological dig in Cyprus with a dark skinned boy of Indian descent. He always wore SPF 50 and long sleeves/pants and a full brimmed hat, much more sun protection than the rest of us. His explanation was that he was visiting his family in India at the end of the summer and didn't want to get a tan lest he be shunned for having even darker skin than he had before.

hfree

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136: Yes! Thats an awesome suggestion - I like that - all of the above works :O) Your great grandma sounds kick ass too (rip)

VPea

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> ethnicity/nationalty/color issues are all too common in minority groups... as a teen i cant tell you of how many times i heard to hear that dark skinned girls just weren't pretty and that my only saving grace was my long straight hair and european features ( i.e. narrow hips, flat ass, narrow nose and " white girl" voice)...or that in college since i was not technically African American i could get away with being dark skinned because i was seen as exotic

haitian_chick

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @VPea: Check the "Absolutely Beautiful" box: I think multi-racial children are the most stunning I've encountered.

See also, my uncle's children: boy half white half black, girl dominican and asian
[thewitness.org]


LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I think the bottom line is that standards of beauty, worldwide and from time immemorial, are unreasonable, often because that which is unusual (e.g. a light-skinned person in a country where most people are fairly dark complected, or a six foot hundred-pound woman in the U.S., where mostly we're just *not*). Think of the multitude of American women in treatment for life-threatening eating disorders, and the fortunes spent every day on cosmetic procedures. In fact, many cultures are a lot better at finding aesthetic value in outsiders, than they are at identifying one another as beautiful.

Daglar

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: yep, disturbing. and i grew up in it, so i find it especially grim.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: I've read about the Korean plastic surgery trends and they're freaky. It's all mixed in - yes, these cultures have a skin/color class association (possibly connected to working outdoors vs. indoors) - but they've also been trained by Western media to see the European standard of beauty as the idea.

effeteaesthete

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @petuniacat:

Man, let me have been the one tryin to count 'em up! C'mere HOT LIPS!

I totally don't understand that. She wasn't tryin to BONE the guys, was she? Just kiss em, right?

shorty63136

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @distractedbyshinyobjects: @beastybeatsy: Yeah, everyone does it, but few did it better than the Brits, because unlike other people, they exported it.

Macloserboy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @tscheese: Whoa whoa whoa. Trying to look LESS Asian? In the IT field? What backwards company does he work for because my bf & all his friends are in IT and they're constantly telling me that companies fight to get Asians, Indians, and Africans on board. it's crazy to think that even in fields in which you'd think minorities dominate, they still feel inferior.

cannotedit

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles:
Eye and nose jobs aren't in th same category as skin issues.

PetiteGal

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @charlotte corday: Historically I assume you mean?

beastybeatsy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shiningstar: Sorry, I think what I meant was a little unclear. I wasn't trying to imply that race issues were only a western problem. I only meant to say that in this case I don't think the notion of light vs. dark stems from some kind of hierarchy imposed on India by the west, but something that had stemmed independently of western influence.

Noah D

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136: Interesting, and good to know! I just couldn't believe it, there was this entire section I had never come across before. I am the palest of the pale and have always craved darker skin, mostly so that I wouldn't fry in the sun, but never thinking about it in terems of cultural issues.

stacyinbean

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: I don't understand how colonialism/imperialism has anything to do with it. There would be skin colour issues in India whether Britain was there or not.

PetiteGal

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Taigan: Oh fuck. I could not believe my ears when, at a bachelorette party in Vegas for a former friend, she got pissed at her girlfriends for suggesting that she kiss a black man (the bride had decided earlier in the night that she was going to kiss one random guy for each year of her fiance's age). She got angry at her friend and bitched her out in Hindi after the friend indicated a black guy for her to kiss. Another girl reluctantly interpreted for me when I asked what was going on. I was flabbergasted, and very glad that our mutual friends who were black had decided to skip out on the party. Oh, and at the wedding, all the black guests were stuck at one table together, right next to the kitchen. The whole thing was really strange and enraging.

petuniacat

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @ecl: I don't think atsumi was trying to be offensive. It just seemed like s/he was being that kid in your class that tries to make a joke at an inappropriate moment and is answered with silence. Bad timing.

cannotedit

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @ Vpea - it appears his/her mommy and daddy are proud of who they are - as are my folks. I'm Irish/Black/Native American/English and I just call myself a mutt. If there's the "Other" box - I check that. My great grandmother (rest her Irish soul) pulled me aside one day after an atrocious time of trying to deal with my curly hair and made SURE to let me know that I should never be ashamed of who I am - any part of me. I can claim Irish if I want to. I can claim Native American. I can claim Black. And I guess I can claim English - although I don't really know that particular part of the family well.

I'm All of the Above, please. :)

shorty63136

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @charlotte corday: sorry, grad school jargon coming out! I
just meant that even in nations with pre-colonization history of favoring light skin for class reasons, because of Western TV shows and other cultural exports it has become about mimicking whiteness and not just about class. For example, South Korea's (and Hong Kong and Japan to a lesser extent) plastic surgery epidemic in which Azns are getting eyelid surgery, raising the bridge of their noses and shaving the bones of their faces down to achieve specifically European facial features not just look upper class. If that makes sense.

roodles

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: They said her name first, but I didn't know who the woman was by name. So then they said that she was African American. I doubt they said "black girl." I think I just wrote it too fast.

CashMoneyHoney

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Macloserboy (Who Is Finally On Facebook For You Bitches): Oh please, Britain has nothing to do with Asian attitudes to fair skin, we never had that many colonies in Asia, but the attitude is prevalent throughout the continent.

beastybeatsy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @ElleL: servants are very common in india, and some castes FORBID marriage outside their strictures, but unfortunately, this "lighter is better" bs is very common all over asia. i know, i'm a hapa and my burmese grandmother loved that i had a sharper nose and round eyes. except the mouthy western attitudes-- those were very unpopular.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @GeekyChic: I read that Shobbha De novel. Did you have an Indian edition, or one that was republished in the UK/US? I ask because I read an Indian edition, and the woman on the cover was definitely darker than the Bollywood standard.

My fiance is of Indian descent and I'm African-American, and we definitely got the WTF look when we were in India. Color means a lot there, and for an Indian man to deliberately marry somebody so much darker than himself is just unfathomable to many people there.

Taigan

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @jenny_dreadful: Well, not really. I'm firmly of the opinion that most mass market cosmetic companies are pretty much evil exploiters (and perpetuators) of womens' insecurities.

petuniacat

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @petuniacat: thank you. is it more "honorable" to die in a brutal way than to say, take too many pills? so sad.

ElleL

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Hiro: My boyfriend is half-white, half-Japanese. He's nearsighted and always opts for thick lenses and substantial frames. It's not because he's so astigmatic that he needs thick lenses. It's not that he hates contact lenses. He told me once that he does it so he can "look less Asian" on first glance.

He is a good-looking guy and I hate that he feels like hiding himself. He works in IT and he feels like he won't be taken seriously if he doesn't look white. It enrages me and breaks my heart.

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @LaComtesse: Well, I'm 1/2 italian and 1/2 German and have fair hair, eyes, and skin that turns red upon exposure to the sun. My mom is more of the prototypical Italian looks, and my sister has the same color hair and eyes, but beautiful olive skin.

*sigh*

Its kind of like haircolor or texture. People seem to want what they don't have.

skittlbrau = baa

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Sassette: Good. I'm not the only one who thought it would have been much better for her to punish this jerk than herself. (She said, checking her own vindictive side out and cowering in terror).

eleanorstrousers

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> Ive recently learned I am pregnant and cant stop thinking about what box my child will check off. I am Dominican and Chinese and their father is Black and White. In a perfect world it wouldnt matter but they wi ll probably be some kind of brown and people will want to know what race/nationalities they are.

VPea

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @roodles: yeah, you lost me on the "cultural imperialism" but my point remains, while it's 100% ok to blame most things on the brits, this is not one of them.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @ElleL: I mentioned above that my aunt who's a psychiatrist is in the process of writing an article about suicide by self-immolation. It's really common in certain cultures, and pretty much unheard of in others. She's in the fairly early stages of research & writing, and I'm really interested to read the final article (message me in a few months about it, and if it's been published by then, I'll see if I can post a link or something). It's not something I can get my head around, either.

petuniacat

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> at my last job, one of my best co-worker friends was Indian, and she married a white man here in the states, and was praised for doing so because it meant lighter skin for her children. her family was also of the highest caste- they actually had servants when she would go back to visit relatives.

ElleL

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @TwiceShy: in defense of atsumi, i think s/he simply may have been calling attention to the sadness and ridiculousness of certain cultures prizing light skin when those people with light skin strive to be dark and tan. in sum, pointing out that the whole "grass-is-greener" phenomenon applies to this issue also. i may be wrong and i apologize for speaking on atsumi's behalf, but i just wanted to point out that his/her comments also have a benign interpretation.

ecl

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> One of the companies that sells skin lighteners in India is Unilever, which is the parent company of Dove. Kind of makes you rethink the whole Dove Real Beauty campaign, doesn't it?

jenny_dreadful

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @BeckySharper: I do not think she's making a stretch. Not at all. If a dark-skinned aesthetic were seen as beautiful, and if it were praised and perpetuated in high-profile and widely disseminated media, then those with dark skin would be as immune to the taunt "Blackie!" as, say, Katherine Heigl presumably would be to "Blondie-blue-eyes!"

As it stands, you see, they're not comparable.

mercymercyme

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @SkippingTowardsJaded and the Muff Mob: When I was little and angry that I wasn't the same color as my friends, my parents told me that people went to tanning beds to look like me.

Fast forward to high school and my girlfriends are baking themselves three shades deeper than my real color! Way to go, rents!

JessicaLovejoy: Wanton Trollop

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @SkippingTowardsJaded and the Muff Mob: That's sad. I have several good girlfriends who are biracial (white moms, black dads) who've told me similar stories from when they were little girls. It breaks my heart everytime. I'm wondering - did your parents catch on to how much it was affecting you, and did they do anything to help you deal with it?

petuniacat

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I'm shocked and pleased that he got any time at all. Not so many years ago a man in India could kill his wife for no reason and there wouldn't be so much as a trial.

crotchety

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Hiro: God. Your thread reminded me of when I was five and in daycare. My mom came to pick me up and found me with patches of tape in my hair and all over my face. I'd been trying to tape my eyes up to resemble the "pretty" girl in my nap group, Christina. She was Chinese.

chelotoyou

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @charlotte corday: It may be true that color "racism" started with class issues about manual outdoor labor vs. wealthier indoor life of leisure however global Western CULTURAL imperialism has only validated this and made it about race and aspiring to whiteness in places where it was previously about class.

roodles

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136: This hadnt popped up when I wrote the above. Well said

VPea

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Macloserboy (Who Is Finally On Facebook For You Bitches): We can't blame the British Empire any more than we can blame the fashion industry. Dude - this whole "light skin is better than dark skin" has been going on for-evah! The Romans did it, the Ancient Egyptians did it, this has been going on as long as man's been around. That's why Africans were taken into slavery even back then - when the Brits were still in France and the people who lived in modern-day GB were wearing bear skins and fighting off the Vikings.

Not saying it's right (far from it) but no one group is to blame for the culture of racism.

distractedbyshinyobjects

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @MsDirector: I didn't phrase my comment well. But I do agree with you. It's great to see these issues being talked about.

What I sometimes don't like is that it seems like some of the white Jeezies' comments are written as if they feel guilty for being white when a story like this comes up. The same goes for my friends; it's like they feel that becuase they're socially privileged they should feel automatically guilty for things like this. But as long as they are passing along the info and keeping this issue relevant, there's no reason to feel that because things like this happen to others across the world or even the US that they should feel guilt for not having it happen to them. Sympathy's good enough.

cannotedit

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> so absoultely terrible.

my question is- why is self-immolation the choice for suicide? is this a cultural thing? i dont understand why one would choose such a brutal and painful way to go.

ElleL

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @tscheese: I had an anatomy/nutrition prof. in college. She was an 80 y/o M.D./geneticist. She was fond of recounting that she was never happier than when two of her three daughters married black men, because she extoled the virtues of darker skin as evolutionarily superior. As the ONLY super-fair-skinned Italian I've ever met, I am inclined to agree with her (as I stare at my super-tanned, olive skinned little sister in envy.)

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I am in the ethinic beauty supply stores often and own several of the lightening products and a Peter Thomas Roth one too - those of us that are a little darker keep those awful pimple popping marks longer and for me that is they only way to get them to fade.

Just saying it isnt always a sinister plot to make us all white. I like Ambi - its helped my waxing scar disappear

However I am Dominican and even amongst this culture the darker skinned people are treated atrociously by their own...how many dark skinned people have you EVER seen on Univision?

VPea

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @petuniacat: It is just so disheartening that something so obviously out of one's control can have such an impact on one's life. Obviously, skin color is just one of these things, but it should be so insignificant it is really amazing.

PolythenePam

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> Asian cultures tend to be very old fashioned when it comes to skin tone. The lighter you are, the more likely you have aristocratic/upper class roots (even in so-called meritocratic China where you can "technically" move up the social ladder by passing exams...but we all know that the alcoholic son of a tenth generation judge is more likely to pass an exam than the studious son of a peasant...it's called being a legacy, folks). This has been going on long, long before European colonialism, so there's no need to thank Mother Britain or Mother France, etc for anything.

As you can see from my pic, I'm a little on the dark side compared to most Chinese...people have actually asked if I'm Filipina.

PetiteGal

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I am sad to say but I see how this make her want to kill herself. Growing up I remember when I was upset about why since I am mixed that I wasn't "light" like my mom, dad or my brothers. At 8, I tried to scrub off the black in the shower because I was so tired of people tell me that since my mom was light-skinned and my dad was half white why did I come out so dark? Its a good thing that got some sense knocked into me and realize it did not matter but honestly it took until my mid-20s to really love my skin.

Skipping Toward Jaded

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @hfree: If you're browner than a paper bag you can count on either a: working in the fields, b: working as a janitor in the bank (not a teller) or c: being considered a "darkie"

If you're lighter than the bag, well then, you've won a fabulous trip to a: working inside massa's house, b: working as a bank teller (or, dare I say it, a manager!) or c: being considered light-skinned.

GeekyChic

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @BeckySharper: I don't think it's that much of a stretch, actually. This woman had probably been devalued her entire life because of the darkness of her skin. Don't discount the immense effect that can have on a person.

As a half white/half Japanese woman, I was once asked by a Chinese American woman "where I was from." I explained my racial background to her, and she told me that I was "much prettier than regular old Chinese" because my skin was fairer.

In Korea, droves of young women are getting their eyes surgically altered to look more "western."

The problem is global, indeed.

Hiro

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Her_royal_Highness: The caste system in India makes no sense, and even though India outlawed it, how do you go back on hundreds of years of inculcation in the idea that one person is "worth" more than another simply based on skin color? Just because a law is passed doesn't people are suddenly going to stop acting that way. They just enacted a ban on driving while talking on a hand-held cell phone here in NJ but it doesn't appear to have done much to change people's habits.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Noah D: From what I gather, that's not what Dodai's trying to say at all. She's just pointing out that when those models are noticeable absent from the runways, it represents a much larger global problem-- black has historically been labeled as 'not beautiful.' And you're misled if you think race issues are only 'Western.' I doubt anyone can name a world society or culture that universally heralds the beauty of dark skin and African features.

shiningstar

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @hfree:

"Back in the day", if your skin wasn't as light or lighter than a paper grocery bag, you were too dark and your hair was probably too nappy. Families with light skin wanted to make sure their descendants had light skin as well - so as to be more accepted in society.

There are STILL residual effects of this today in the black community. It's very difficult to shake that.

shorty63136

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @BeckySharper: Even if it were "just" the straw that broke the camels back, that it is a recognized and intentional insult is an issue.

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136: You're totally right about media images. I don't disagree on that. But obviously this woman was the victim of serious abuse by her husband and that was what drove her to suicide, not the lack of positive images in the media.

It's the abusive husband, people! Domestic violence comes in many forms but at the end of the day, it's still all domestic violence!

BeckySharper

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @stacyinbean:

To the defense of some of those skin-lightening creams marketed toward black people - many of those products are used to lighten the appearance of scars. People with more pigment in their skin will have permanent scars as a result of adolescent acne. I, personally, use a "fade cream" that gets rid of those scars I had, but it did not make me "whiter" or "lighter".

shorty63136

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> There is a very good discussion of "unconcious racism" in the book "Blink."

badmutha

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Atsumi: Ugh. Lost my appetite thanks to you.

TwiceShy

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @CashMoneyHoney: Are you black or white? (I just wanted to know it context to how the people at your office reacted.)

But I agree. Skin tone isn't that big of an issue anymore. It's still irks me when people as, "She's cute for a dark-skin girl" and when I see Gabrielle Union on her Neutrogena ads looking light as hell. But other than that, it's no biggie.

cannotedit

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> It seems to me that apart from the (very valid) discussion of perceptions of "good" versus "bad" skin color, what the husband did was mental and emotional abuse, straight out. So I think he deserves his jail time.

Nicorette

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @bowleserised: and china, thailand and buttload of other places weren't colonized but they have the same light-skin fetish. it's basically b/c if you had to work in the fields, you were darker, ergo, wealthier peeps had "lighter" skin. same thing with long pinky nails on some east asian men.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shorty63136: Sorry if this is naive, but what is "the paper bag test"?

hfree

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @sybaritic: Could be. I used to work with a lot of Indian people (IT) and some of the stories I heard were just unbelievable. It was like, what century do you folks live in again?

Hamsterpants

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> Agh, this is horrible. This breaks my heart. God, this is so horrible. All around the world, all throughout history, people--women in particular--have been systematically taught to hate their skin tone.

I am a very fair redhead. I have always wanted darker skin. Ultra-ultra white skin is not an ideal, guys. It isn't an advantage--I literally cannot get a tan. I turn red and crispy in amounts of sunlight that would barely make you blink. I have an assortment of high-SPF lotions, floppy hats and parasols--not for my vanity, but to keep from being in pain caused by sunlight exposure.

There NEEDS to be more diversity in high fashion. It won't solve the world's problems, but it will grant more exposure to the fact that all shades and variations are beautiful.

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @BeckySharper:

You'd be surprised how having a person with skin like yours and hair like yours can change the way people think about themselves. I'm basically a mutt: reddish skin w/ unruly spiraly and wavy hair. I'm the kind of person that's put in ads and whatnot - because I'm not "too ethnic."

To the marketing/advertising industry, there IS such a thing as too black, hair too kinky, etc.

Trust me - I'm at my desk at an ad agency as we speak.

shorty63136

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @BeckySharper: Yes, the guy is a prick and would have called her fat or ugly..etc. But sadly, he understood that calling her "black" was an insult. In their society and in both of their minds.

keldo

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @ragdoll: Go to any Asian-owned beauty shop for "ethnic" women and you'll find numerous "skin brightening," "whitening," and "beautifying" bleach products from co's like Ambi.

And as for the color issue -- man, it's global. Remember Ricki Martin's "Livin' La Vida Loca?" Line goes ... "her lips are devil red, her skin is the color mocha ..." was no mocha-colored honey to be seen in the vid.

Just read a book by Shobbha De (she's like the Indian Jackie Collins) about a Bollywood starlet who was darker than mainstream (dusky, they called her) and the model on the cover was as pale as all heck.

GeekyChic

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> No no - you're supposed to kill HIM. Then rake in millions on the book and Lifetime movie.

Sassette

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @cannotedit: But isn't it good that we're talking about it? It's a horribly sad and scary story, and the pic makes me cringe in all kinds of ways, but isn't spreading awareness of horrible things like this a good thing? Isn't seeing that these issues are worldwide, and need worldwide attention, and have worldwide consequences, important?

It's certainly not happy, but it's good to know about and discuss.

MsDirector

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @sybaritic: Did you know that some men marry...get the dowry then plot the murder of their wives to later marry again and collect another dowry? Perhaps we was counting on her suicide.

India is in trouble because they are essentially breeding themselves out. What I mean by this is that the desire for male babies is making them produce/make/give birth to more boys than girls. I read that it has gotten so bad that in some villages men are sharing wives.

Her_royal_Highness

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I live in a predominantly black neighborhood and the first time I went to the local drug store I was blown away at how many skin lightening and skin bleaching product they had. I honestly had no idea this was a problem until I saw that stuff and did a little research on the products. This is SO deperessing and I agree 100% that not having models of other ethnicities is a huge problem in the fashion industry, and many other industries.

stacyinbean

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @shiningstar:I agree. Even within the black community, people with dark skin are considered not to be as attractive as people with light skin.

tranquilmademoiselle

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @CashMoneyHoney: but they didn't freak out when they identified your boss as the "black girl" instead of by a name? Especially considering that there was more than one? um...OK explain pls

roodles

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @ragdoll: Ponds and Neutrogena also manufacture self-tanners and women in the US eat that shit for breakfast.

Which is not to say that this is not fucked. I just think it's one thing that "black" is used as an insult, and another thing that one can acquire either lightening lotions or darkening creams from the beauty market.

bruitdautrui

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @Atsumi: Appropriate? Not quite.

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> I can't imagine the point he must have driven her to, so that she would set herself on fire. Stupid class and caste systems ruining people's lives for generations to come.

dontbogartthewine

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @AmericanSplendor: Absolutely. I do think the British Empire is responsible for almost everything that's wrong in the world today, but we didn't invent the caste system in India.

bowleserised

]]> <![CDATA[Skin Deep]]> @