<![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @meaghan2k: I don't subscribe to the notion that you can't be a feminist if you're a mother

For one thing, you're our most important resource in raising feminist, aware, socially conscious kids.

nardo218

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @blackbirdfly: Praise Jeebus!

nardo218

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @whynotshesaid: Excuse me, but i am not thinking just in terms of my own existence. Far from it. Did you see the documentary "The World Without Us"? According to the models generated by the SCIENTIST who authored that book, we could reverse such universal woes as water shortage, starvation and global warming IN A SINGLE GENERATION if people simply restricted their production of children to a half-replacement level. That means we lose half the earth's human population by attrition in the span of one lifetime. YOU are talking about local taxes. I am talking about a biosphere that is going to collapse by the year 2050, AND MASSIVE GLOBAL DIE-OFF if we don't do something. And THAT, my friend, *is* being felt right now in poorer countries, even as we speak.

And by the way-- do some reading up on the repercussions of the Plague the middle ages. It obliterated 30-60 percent of Europe's population. The result, for western civilization, was a change in the social order by which the dirt-poor, dependent, starving peasant class became a smaller, independent, higher-earning middle-class. There were fewer of them, and their labor was more valuable. This moved the social order from two-class feudalism to the 3-class mobile-middle-class model that we find most economically viable today. Plus it generated a "local" and "immediate" event called the Renaissance that moved Western culture out of the Dark Ages into a renewed interest in science, and the spread of universal education (co-spawned by the invention of printing).

Look at the United States today. We have a vanishing middle class, that has less and less earning power every day, coinciding with a baby boom that is bigger than the one that occurred after WWII. Combined with a defunding of and de-emphasis on education. Combine that with the recent recession (which will get worse very fast, very soon), and you have a recipe for economic disaster that will make the Great Depression look like a cakewalk.

Right now, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and more numerous. There is a reason why the people in power are focused on making birth control inaccessible to the rest of us. We're being steered back to the feudal model, courtesy of the Neocons, with the corporate rich and the church sharing power over a peasant-class population that they can exploit for cheap labor.

NOBODY is going to be paying taxes who does not have a well-paying job. And there is *already* a shortage of well-paying jobs. The social safety net is at the point of collapse because there are more people taking out of it than there are paying into it(and it's being quietly underfunded to death anyway). But there is no shortage of people who are having kids without thinking about how they are going to pay for them. Every kid that is born is going to be consuming resources for AT LEAST 18 years before they start paying back into the kitty. And that's just the ones who don't end up in jail or dead, or simply unemployable because they flunked out of high school.

If anything, parents are obligated to the rest of us to raise their kids into law-abiding, educated, contributing citizens who will pay back the community at large for the first 18+ years investment.

Don't try to tell me that out-breeding our resources is prosperity. Our resources are finite. People don't "generate" income. They recirculate it. That's why printing more dollars doesn't make you richer, it devalues the dollar for everyone. Overproduction of human beings has the same effect. It devalues human life.

I wish people as a species would make two changes:

1) Recognize that overpopulation is the basis for most of the ills in the world.

2) Reclassify the having of children from a "right" to a "privilege." That way, children would be born to people who prove their fitness as parents before the fact, and no child would be born to parents who don't ***value*** him.

Neopatra

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Meg: Thanks for the advice, Meg. I'll keep this in mind when the time comes for me to make what I hear is a hugely selfish decision that will victimize everyone else in the world for the gratification of my own ego.

whynotshesaid

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Neopatra: Whoa, calm down. If everyone stopped having babies (or slowed down having babies), then when you got older, the economy of the country would suffer because there would be fewer people to work and generate income and provide social supports in the form of taxation. If you step back and think about it from a larger perspective - and not just the one that surrounds your immediate existence - you'll see that this is true. Countries with negative birth rates are already starting to see the wider social impacts of those trends.

whynotshesaid

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: Excuse me, but would you please explain to me precisely how YOUR having children benefits ME as a childless person? Please note dates, names, numbers and concrete information. Because I'm sick to death of hearing how we all owe everything to parents because they make the personal individual life-style decision to have kids.

The "public good" is a line of purest bullshit. YOU decide to have kids for reasons that gratify YOU. Did you consult with "the public" before you had them? Did you sit down with your spouse before you created a pregnancy and say to each other "We have to have a kid because it will benefit the world at large in the following ways"? I seriously doubt it.

While many people have genuine, valid reasons for having kids, I have yet to meet a parent whose reason or reasons for having them did not start with some variation on the phrase "I want." And I have yet to meet a parent who considered the impact on the community at large before they had a kid. Yet we are all expected to pay into a system that shells out to people who have kids, whether they are good at parenting or not. And a lot of them SUCK at it.

Don't tell me it is your contribution as a parent to create the next generation of workers. Because, in case you hadn't noticed, there is a shortage of jobs out there already. As a matter of fact, on this planet of 6 and a half BILLION, there is pretty much a shortage of just about everything *but* people. And people are suffering terribly because of it. You want to impress me with your parental status? Try adopting a kid who is already here.

Neopatra

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @hilighter: I can't agree with you more. You're not alone in feeling this way.

Neopatra

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> During our 2002-2003 school year, about 10 teachers were preggers at my school (and at least 30 others district-wide... something to do with 9/11, perhaps?). Well, that year we changed from a traditional calendar (Sept-June school year, with Christmas and Spring breaks) to a year-round calendar (grades split up into 4 tracks, July-June school year, teach 12 weeks, off for 4 weeks). According to our districts maternity leave policy, every mother got at 6 weeks paid leave.

Under a traditional calendar, the district never gave any woman any problems, but under the year-round system, it was highly problematic. If a teacher gave birth while she was off track for 4 weeks, the district counted those days as materinity leave, which meant that a teacher really only had 2 weeks paid leave from work. The rest was attributed to her sick days (10 per year) and the rest was just unpaid leave.

This caused a HUGE stink. Under a traditional schedule, if you gave birth during Christmas or Spring break, the district never counted that week as part of your maternity leave, so why were they counting people's normal school breaks (the off-track time) as "leave"? Talk about a ballyhoo! All the preggers ladies and their supporters stormed the superintendents office one afternoon and he cowered in his office for about 4 hours until the HR lackey issued a memo fixing the policy. problem solved.

ceejeemcbeegee

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> "They also have to provide maternity leave, as they would provide leave for any other medical issue, but in 48 of the 50 states, that leave doesn't have to be paid"

I'm sorry, I'm female but I DON'T see a problem with this. Having a child is a choice not an illness; and I imagine that is the reason behind this rule.

I don't expect an employer to pay for something that benefits them in no way and was something I decided to do (whether my decision to have a child was before or after realising I was pregnant).

You may commence the flaming.

eigne

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @ZoeStars: From my experience through a female co-worker, you do get the year, but you must have been employed for >6 mnths and I think you only get 50% of your wages? It may not be the same for every company.

Lashes

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> I'm not completely sure if things are like that here in Canada. But what I do know is that everyone (including father's) get up to one year paid maternity leave. I know a lot of women who have worked right up to their due date, so they then get a full year off. And I personally have never heard of any of my friends or family who have been pregnant being discriminated against in that way. However, the US government really needs to change it's tune. What they're doing is just plain wrong!

ZoeStars

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @LoveNoelG: I know a lot of women who do this. It pisses me off to no end 'cause if it isn't shady, it sure as hell is lame, and it just ends up perpetuating the negative stereotype that you shouldn't hire women 'cause they always end up getting knocked up. URGH!!!!

Piranha426

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @whynotshesaid: Since you're planning on waiting a few years for kids, and this seems like your dream job, I'd take it and see how it goes. If you find out they are really shitty about people having kids, you can start looking for a new job [which will be (theoretically) easier since you'll have more experience, and won't be desperate for an income]. I'm sure with time, friends will talk about their experiences. If you make a good friend, you can ask them directly, if not, you can make up a story about your friend's horrible boss and the shitty treatment they are getting. Then wait for a reaction. It's hard to tell, but lots of things can change in years, including who will be your superior and what their general attitude will be. For now, just enjoy your position!

Meg

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> I am really sorry that this thread is dead, because this topic is insanely relevant to me right now. I'm about to start a job at a big corporation, which means that it is just loaded with benefits and perks. I'm also having baby fever pretty badly, and I realized after a conversation about birth control today, that my BF has been hit with it, too. My thinking is to wait a couple of years, until I've proven my worth to the company, before we start trying. But what if the company I work for ends up being totally not-mommy friendly? How do I figure these things out without tipping my hand? If anyone reads this, please share some advice with me. kthankxbai.

whynotshesaid

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @brookidy: why mention that her children are illegitimate? Is it relevant? If she is a single mother then yes that is relevant, but if she is simply not married, then it isn't.

boliath

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @marybanjo: You can't use sick days for maternity leave as far as I know, I couldn't anyway her in Massachusetts even though I had gestational diabetes and miserable pregnancies.

boliath

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> But isn't part of Hirschman's point that, for the system to change, women must make their way to the top echelons of male-dominated fields, so they have leverage to make those changes? It's all well and good to say that art history should be the equal of medicine or finance, but that's not the real world and never will be -- all Hirschman is doing is asking women to think about stuff like that when we make life-altering decisions.

My career (and it is a career) has a higher earning potential than my husband's also-a-career, and I have to say, it comforts me when I think of having kids down the road -- because when push comes to checkbook, I have the leverage to get what I want. My "I'd like to do this differently" means a hell of a lot more when both parties are financial equals -- and this is a loving relationship between two artists, for god's sake, albeit highly-paid ones. Hirschman has a point.

GingerVitis

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> I don't think companies realize that what is bad for the greater portion of society is ultimately bad for them. Pregnant women tend to already have it rough in this society and it shouldn't be this way, I think they should get special privileges, hell maybe they should be revered in some sort of earth mother neo-paganism kind of way. But honestly how much longer can this system exist? I mean we are clearly on the verge of some kind of environmental apocalypse and it won't matter how expensive suit is because ain't no one gonna be there to hear you scream.

pinkerton241

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Oh No I Di'n't.: i'm still not sure i totally understand, but yeah i think america could benefit from chilling the fuck out a little.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> As someone who has had 4 miscarriages, I absolutely would not mention my pregnancy to a potential employer. Because really, what are my chances of making it to the finish line? A + on a pee stick does not a child make.

For the one pregnancy that did go to term, I didn't tell my employer of six years until I was 18 weeks along. Within two weeks, they had bumped up my layoff date by several months -- a plan that would've left me jobless at 6 months. With the help of a lawyer friend, I drafted a letter that got them to back off long enough that I postponed my layoff until Christmas. I had my daughter in January, with no job and thus, no maternity leave. Yay. Go Team.

DaphneD

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: Okay, what you seem to be missing is that there are other cultural factors going on in these other countries. The US is different from these countries in many ways. Furthermore, you didn't really address my questions about academia, finance and big law and whatever else. I think there might be implications to this and if it were *that easy* I think there would be less resistance to it. Obviously, there are several factors that make people resistant to this change. I want to chat about the underlying factors that make people resistant to this change and whether or not this is about "feminism" or the attitudes of people about careers in general.

Oh No I Di'n't.

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> Is Cyhtnia Nixon pregnant? This is an old picture, I assume.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Oh No I Di'n't.: i don't know, i just don't see that it's going to cause adjustments that large. there are enough workers to cover all kinds of shifts. it may be more EXPENSIVE for companies (in which case you either accept that it is an appropriate wealth transfer in light of pervasive inequalities or else you push the costs to the gov./taxes as i've mentioned before). I'm a little confused about what you are picturing happens. you can get whatever you want in other countries that have better paternal leave too.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: Okay, well, let's look at how the world of finance works, let's look at law, let's look at how academia in the US works.

Then consider the "I want it now" culture of the US when it comes to service.

At one point someone mentioned the adjustments and accommodations needed in terms of everyone's work schedules at a company that come from adjusting to parents. There is an expectation for companies to do this but don't you think that the expectation to respect this also falls on consumers and other people doing business? Do you think that US culture will really be okay with this shift.

It's not about financial costs, it's about behavior adjustments. What are the long-term behavior adjustments necessary?

Oh No I Di'n't.

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Meg: And by "there," I mean "their."

Meg

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: Well there ability to have a baby certainly influences the way they see their rights about having a baby. And if you think the ideas/pressures/influences are the same, then take a look at the gajillion articles/studies/etc. about how WOMEN can balance work/home, and if children are better at home or is it okay if the selfish mommy works and puts them in daycare. If I sound angry, I am -- at the inequality. I'm not blaming you for not being female, but I don't think you can deny that there is a difference in expectations.

Meg

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: yeah it's a fine line between recognizing privilege and essentializing. i may have crossed it like i said. but i'm pretty damn sure most women feel these issues more urgently than most men.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: I definitely love talking these things out (though I think my tone often inspires arguments rather than conversations). As far as women's ability to have babies influencing the way they see the world, perhaps. But I would never suggest to my female friends that they think a certain way because they can make babies--they would frown on that I think...

Great discussion. Now I'm off to lunch.

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Meg: @reader123: Not only is this issue black and white for you because you are a dude, this issue is black and white because I am guessing you have no kids. Because when and if you do have them, you will likely find yourself feeling really torn between your career and your family, though maybe not to the same extent as your wife/partner would. And I would guess that a lot of guys also start having to go through a lot of the machinations we are discussing here. Because most people in high-pressure careers start to resent the fact that their work seems to think it *owns* them and all of their time at some point. And that point is more likely to come when you feel like your loyalties are more divided between work and family. I can't remember if you, reader123 were the person who thought that a law firm should be able to ask you to be available whenever they want, day or night. But is a job that demands that much of your soul ever worth it in the end? Especially if you have kids at home who miss you, but even if you don't?

esmemurphy

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Oh No I Di'n't.: well, who wouldn't like it? what adjustments are you talking about? i think pregnant women and their families and those who care about them would appreciate it. I guess I'm not picturing well what adjustments you are talking about. To me it's just a question of "who pays?" Do we want companies with huge resources, or taxpayers who can afford it, to bear these extra costs (i mean obviously the family bears the lions share of the costs of pregnancy), or do we want to put it back on uncompensated women? someone has to pay. i prefer it to be spread out to those who can best afford to pay, since everyone benefits.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @saradanger: that was my big problem with academia--the women professors were so much harsher on women grad students, it really was upsetting. so much for mentoring.

faire-la-moue

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Oh No I Di'n't.: It's not just you, but I have no idea why it is happening.

Meg

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> Also, is anyone else having the problem that their original comment doesn't show up until the post another one. I seem to have this problem often and I am wondering what it might be.

Continue.

Oh No I Di'n't.

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @hilighter:

I feel sorry for those women that will have to work under you when you reach management level. With that perspective, I am sure that you will be a nightmare.

saradanger

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: I didn't suggest it would ruin us, I suggested that it would require a significant shift in the behaviors/expections of Americans and I'm wondering would we (Americans) be willing to put up with that shift. There's a difference between "ruined" and disrupting one's way a life to the point that they may not like it very much.

Oh No I Di'n't.

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> mr. faire-la-moue and i both read hirshman's book last year, and i have to say, she's dead -on. i've gotten better at telling him to do shit around the house, and he's been super-supportive of me figuring out what to do with my life after i decided not to use my ph.d. for its intended purpose. i think an underlying issue is that time seems so precious now--like if you're not established in a career by the age of 25, you're fucked and will never get anywhere.

faire-la-moue

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: And because you are male, a lot of these choices are more black and white for you. Whether by accident or choice, you aren't going to become pregnant. You won't have to worry that you won't get a job, will be fired from one, or will be thought of differently, because you can't just announce that you're having a baby, without a physical reminder. You don't have to give birth to the baby, therefore requiring time to heal medically. And no one will ever tell you that you need to choose one or the other, or that you need to be aware of the balance in your life.

Meg

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: yeah, it's that attitude that made me go OH when i heard you were a dude. it's no offense, for real. but i just find that the messy, gray element of life is a lot clearer for women, most of the time. at the risk of sounding totally essentialist but in the spirit of this thread, i would suggest it at least in part has to do with the ability (the fear and promise, the responsibility and threat) of actually growing another human being inside your body and being primarily responsible for it your whole life, with or without your consent. it kind of throws those black and whites out the window. but i appreciate the way you're willing to talk it out.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @gherkinfiend: You are very kind. We'll totally let you come over and yell at someone.

I don't have kids and I am not entirely sure that I want them. But, when I finish school and enter the workforce as a lawyer, I fully expect to catch shit if I ever decide to have a kid. And even if I never do, I will face other challenges working in a male-dominated field. But kids or not for me, it still pisses me off that pregnant women can be harassed or fired because of their pregnancy and there are no real repercussions. And if you do sue or complain, then you catch flack for being too sensitive (another "annoying female trait" in the workplace). Thank goodness it sounds like at least some of you have supportive employers.

JSouth

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Oh No I Di'n't.: although, now that i read your comment, i would just point you to the many industrialized nations in the world that provie superior family leave benefits and it doesn't seem to have ruined them.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Oh No I Di'n't.: oh yeah sorry it was for gumbino

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> *confused as to what you are responding to.

Oh No I Di'n't.

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: These are all good points. I admit that my thinking has a huge fatal flaw in that it doesn't allow for the spectrum of human experience. I like things black and white--either having a baby is a choice or it isn't. Either it's a luxury or a necessity. Either you want a career or you want a family. I generally think along these lines because I do believe that at the end of the day, all cultural biases and natural instincts sorted out, there are yes and no answers for these things. But we have not sorted everything out, not by a long shot. So the solutions are a bit messy. In physics the kinds of answers I'm looking for are called elegant solutions. There may not be any elegant solutions for issues like these.

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: Is that response for me or is it for Gumbina 80? I'm confused with what you are responding to if it is really for me.

Oh No I Di'n't.

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> I work in publishing, and my (female) boss and her (female) boss are both moms and both awesome. I'm not about to have kids anytime soon, but my boss has actually sent me home sick on more than one occasion because she wanted to make sure I could rest and recover. And then chided me for reporting the sick hours, because she meant the time to be "on her." On that note, I should probably get back to work...

OrianaVox

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Oh No I Di'n't.: everyone has pretty much agreed that workplace flexibility is good for everyone. but you have to realize that you have more freedom and more time by not having kids. you can go to the salon or the doctor or wherever on your off hours because you are not spending those hours raising kids. i would offer you the same benefits if you were caring for an aging parent, for example. but you have to acknowledge that raising children and caring for the survival of other humans is extremely different than leisure or luxury experiences and goods.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: it's on the line, dude. for some women it is and for some it isn't. and what's REALLY not elective is for men to do the labor of bearing children. women ALWAYS do it, uncompensated, and suffer for the rest of our careers for it. so there must be some intervention to equalize the burden. and like it or not, you benefit from those children being born in a way you don't benefit from someone's yacht.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> .

Oh No I Di'n't.

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> Suppose that these "perfect" maternity/paternity scenarios that people really want were to suddenly be implemented everywhere in the US. Could someone please explain to me how business would remotely continue to function in the same manner that it does today. Sure, several people are going to say, "we adjust" but this doesn't really deal with the fact that EVERYONE would be entitled to these privileges as long as they had children. Would this shift the "adjusting" responsibility to everyone without kids? Even if you have children, aren't there services you require or businesses that you interact with that you want *not* to slow down for kids? Wouldn't this adjustment require a fundamental shift on how Americans view work in general? Suppose that magically overnight men and women in society were treated equally in the workplace and in terms of parenting expectations (aside from the physicalities of pregnancy), there are still going to be the same basic issues surrounding, work-life balance in corporate America/academia, aren't there?

So, really, should the focus really be feminism solving things? Because, to me, when you get down to it it appears to a problem with how everyone in society treats work AND everyone's expectation that they will be able to get what they need from the output of the work of others.

I'm just wondering if someone could, for once, completely take me through this thought exercise beyond, "people would be able to raise children and we women will be all liberated and stuff". I'm not making an argument against I'm just interested in hearing the bigger implications of things.

Oh No I Di'n't.

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: I think I get what you're trying to say. Making and then taking care of other human beings for 18 years is tough. It's a pain and a half. Always has been, I suppose.

And it seems like a lot of parents expect everybody else to help shoulder the burden. Having kids takes money. It's inconvenient. But it's also your choice. There's a reason I'm not doing it.

One woman in my former department "worked from home" a day a week so she could have time with her kids. She was impossible to reach all day and would unapologetically answer her phone from a salon appointment or the grocery store. Us singletons were not allowed the luxury of flex time. Why, what single person could possibly benefit from such flexibility?

Every employee should have schedule flexibility. We're all human, we all deserve to have pursuits other than sitting in a cramped cubicle for 9 hours a day.

Gumbina80

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: It all makes sense now.

TruculentandUnreliable

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> I just found out 3 weeks ago that I'm pregnant with our first, and more than likely only child. I'm working as a consultant at the moment, and my current contract ends April 30th. There was originally talk of getting HR to extend my contract beyond the current 18 month cap, which was all fine and going ahead as planned until a week after I told people I was expecting. Then things seem to have "fallen through". It was....an interesting development.

At any rate, I don't get any paid maternity leave. At all. I'm not even sure I can take off the full 6 weeks because I make the majority of our income, and with the expense of a kid, don't realistically think we can save enough for me to take off that much time. I was thinking short term disability, but that's a joke. You have to pay into it for a year, and then be out 3 months before they start paying you.

Luckily, my husband works at the YMCA, so they will take the baby at 6 weeks, at about half price. And he gets about 4 weeks vacation to my 2, so as soon as I can go back to work I will have to. And I want a C-Section, too, which I've heard is another 6 weeks needed. What should be a joyful time in my life is causing nothing but financial stress on me.

AmbiUbi

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: Having a child might be like medical care, but it's still elective isn't it?

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @snarkhunting: I couldn't agree with you more. This is why I think she is so off. And I did read some of her book and all of Leslie Bennetts' book. And I still couldn't swallow it. I should add that I have always been a career person with an academic-type career before I started staying home and that I plan to go back to work in a couple of years, so I definitely feel like I have a foot in both camps about this issue is some ways.

esmemurphy

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @meaghan2k: Also, I can haz comments pg that doesn't fuck up and freez on me? Kthxbai. I look stoopid mizspeling mai majoor "philosophy."

meaghan2k

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SouthernComfort: That is so inspiring that you have your own business now and you can bid against your old boss. Way to kick ass!

layladylan

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @arodriguez.romero: it wasn't the only one. germany's still the bomb with parental leave, incidentally.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @meaghan2k: I agree totally.

dictator4life1

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: yeah but a kid needs to be looked at differently than a luxury good. it's not just a lifestyle choice, it's much deeper than that, equivalent as someone said to medical care. it doesn't negatively impact our conversation except that i realize what you have to lose/gain from the issue and why your perspective sounds a little abstract. no biggie.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Meg: Yes I'm probably conceiving of these things in extreme.

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: Well, I don't know much about what actually happened in some Eastern Block countries, but I suspect you are thinking of East Germany?

arodriguez.romero

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: Yeah I'm a dude. Does that negatively impact our discussion?

As far as propagating the species, I think we're doing fine. Having a kid is not an act of heroism, it's just doing something that makes you happy. Why reward someone who wants children over someone who wants, say, dogs? Like I said, I'm totally with you on adequately compensating the "invisible" labor (stay at home wives/husbands). But giving people money because they want to have kids? I want to have a yacht, can I have money to? Yachts are a huge commitment that require time, energy and money too you know.

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: also my point was just some countries with dismal hr records still take better care of their women than we.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @hamburgerhotdog: Well, I don't know this chick but I do know that we were thinking it would take 6-8 months minimum (according to stats) to get pregnant when we started trying, because of age and other factors. Imagine my complete shock when we succeeded in month 1.

noseriously

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: I'm not hoping, I'm positive it will. There is no other option. It's not an immortal system.

Education is key. But when mass education is funded by the capitalist system in this country, there's not much damage you can do. And when you don't have the means to educate, well, what exactly can you do? The "free" education citizens receive is saturated with lies and bullshit. And when you do get the chance to receive an education that isn't so biased, it costs you an arm and leg and often times you end up resenting the fact that you majored in philospohy istead of something "practical" like business.

And then capitalism wins again. I should know, because I've already lost against that bitch.

meaghan2k

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: Okay, but I still think the definition of "career" that you are using is quite extreme. It isn't as if these problems of leave, job security, etc. only exist at those top level positions. They are a problem for women who work in all jobs, at every level.

Meg

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @meaghan2k: Well, if you're hoping capitalism will collapse then your best bet would be to start managing a hedge fund. Those guys can do lots of damage.

I'm more inclined to educate. I'm not looking for a bad guy. There's no one to blame. I'm putting my efforts into social action and education.

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @arodriguez.romero: oh yeah, sure depends on the country. i was thinking eastern bloc.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: oh you're a DUDE? or are you a gay? jeebus. it goes back to the whole "all of humanity depends on the propagation of the species" thing. you know, the common good, and making the workplace equal for men and women.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: How is there a logical means to this problem? If we're not supposed to blame companies and people who follow the rules (and I'm one of those people that should be "punished" because do adhere to the rules, by having a 9-5 job and being in debt and paying my bills and not doing what I really want, which is be a professional Price is Right watcher) then who do we blame? The President? That's absurd, because if capitalism has been inherited as you say, well, he's excluded because he inherited his post and the rules that go along with that too.

It's very obvious that the captalist will just completely explode and humankind will have to start over again. And arguing about change can seem pretty stupid at times, because it all seems so hopeless. But whatever. IF there were to be a change, PEOPLE will have to bear the brunt of the shitstorm. If we have to comply to the rules NOW, we'll just have to comply to the rules THEN. There's no nice way out of it.

meaghan2k

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: Then we def. have to co-rule 'Wantland'. I too am queen of selective bill payment. Every effing month. It is exhausting. Too tired to write more. :-/

ItchykooParker

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @meaghan2k: me too. I'm at a law firm with a boss who is REALLY understanding about every little thing I have to do, that all happens during work hours, that I kind of feel bad I'll leave here soon once I get my commercial pilot's license. I think pilots make enough to hire nannies. And I'd totally pay her like $20 an hour. You can't skimp on your belly fruit :-P

ltlbbynthn

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: I like the idea of paying for the labor that lets their workers come to work, but I'm still not sold on the idea that this is maternity leave. What if I stay at home and create a terrific home environment for my girlfriend to give her all at work. If we never have a kid where is my compensation?

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @hilighter:

As a mom, I have to say that I agree with you wholeheartedly-people should be able to take a certain amount of leave, in order to keep things fresh. Turning employees into a bunch of drones does not benefit a company at all. It just makes employees bitter and resentful toward folks who NEED time off in order to be sick, or because they've had children, and have extra responsibilities.

SleeplessNights

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @CYOrefugee: AMEN to the "luxury" comment! I chose to stay home when my first born (daughter) was a year old; I was *miserable* going to work and putting her in day care. I chose to stay home and opened my own licensed day care home, during which time I had 2 more kids. I can't tell you how many times I had people tell me they wished that had the "luxury" of staying home - we made huge sacrifices for that choice. I worked 60 hours a week for very little money, we've never been to Disneyland and never owned a new car. But I needed to be home with my kids and I've never regretted the decision.

For *most* women, being a stay-at-home mom isn't a luxury, it's a choice, with huge trade-offs. Just like for working moms.

bitchyolympian

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: Well there can be more flexibility than that. Kids are only out of school for 5 years, tops. On the extreme end, yeah - if both parents are top-end corporate lawyers (who I know are expected to put in 80+ hours/week) then maybe having kids is sort of pointless and the kids will feel they don't know their parents. But there's a whole spectrum of careers, and you can often slow down a bit then pick up the pace as the kids get a little older. Many careers are quite family-friendly or allow for independence. So I disagree that it is inherently selfish for both parents to have a career.

teapartys_over

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: The communist thing. My experience/interest is mainly in Cuba. (big surprise, right?)

They had some awesome research and ideas for women "in the revolution". Alas, it was only vaporware as we say in software.

arodriguez.romero

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @meaghan2k: I don't think capitalism will ever work. I'm with you, it rewards very bad behavior and is not a positive force. But I do think it was inherited ("late capital" as our current model goes). I'm all for a radical shift. But I'm also for logic and rules. When a system is broken you change the rules, you don't punish those who abide by them.

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @arodriguez.romero: oh wait, what comment were you referring to?

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: not really. At least, in my experience, not really.

arodriguez.romero

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> I meant to add...I find it interesting that someone was saying earlier that having children is selfish. Because my #1 reason why I do not want children is that I think I'm too selfish to have them.

That, and the whole being crazy broke thing.

blackbirdfly

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> comments not posting?

SouthernComfort

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @arodriguez.romero: total mistake on my part.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Meg: No no, I would never say that having a kid is selfish. Not at all; it's usually a very selfless thing. My argument was only that having a kid AND a career is selfish for both men and women. Career defined here as more than a job but a complete investment of your life in your "life's work." A kid is a lifetime commitment and a career is a lifetime commitment. Having them both means they will both suffer.

That was my original point, though many here have made solid arguments (ex: J.D.Regent) for how the career image we have was subsidized by women and therefore is probably unrealistic.

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: Huh. Interesting past tense.

arodriguez.romero

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: but if they aren't paying for all the labor that makes them run, including the labor that lets their workers show up to work, then their profit is STOLEN from the workers and their families. so them paying for maternity leave is a totally appropriate response from that perspective. or else like i said lobby for comprehensive government funded child and health care. but don't just put the blame back on the workers being greedy and wanting it all.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: I'm not asking to for a big huge career, though! I just want a career that pays the bills, gives me some security and a sense of pride. I know I'm never going to be a partner because I don't want to be that invested in what I do for a living, but I also don't want to be forced into quitting and ending up as a cashier at Target because I want to raise a family.

LadyNo Fondles Sweaters

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Fatdogsmells: It's not that I look down on people who have successful careers; I look down on people whose careers are built by screwing poor people. Bear Stearns got what it did b/c of the whole sub-prime mortgage thing, which was a slick way to get a lot of money out of people who didn't have the money to lose. It worked, for awhile, and now they have reaped what they sowed. I have respect for people who do well-paid jobs and do good, useful, or at least enjoyable, work, w/o screwing over other people.

dictator4life1

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @hamburgerhotdog: If you're an investment banker, sorry I burned your ass. My job is useless, in that it doesn't nothing for me on an intellectual level. I work for an insurance company. I send out some emails and take care of checks for policies and the like. And I do it because in the system we live under, I need to pay bills. I went to college, took out a lot of loans to pay for it because Capitalist King made me, and now I'm paying out the ass for doing something I wanted to do and should have been free in the first place. So jobs like investment banking and insurance whore and whatever aren't COMPLETELY useless. I'm not an idiot. Obviously they're needed to earn money and make a life for yourself. But in my little utopian perfect society head, they aren't.

meaghan2k

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @weedie: communist countries were pretty rad at supporting working moms.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @dictator4life1: Here's how I feel about this. In a perfect world a person could do good and get paid well for it. In the real world, very few of the people in high paid professions actually love their jobs. For most of them work is a tolerable thing and they do the things that they like outside of their working life, or they get value from their job outside of the work that they actually do (prestige for example). A lot of those people (esp based on my experiences in NYC) who are EXTREMELY high paid are also extremely effed up.

With that said, I think it's too easy to be dismissive of people who majored in things like engineering and business and the sciences simply because they're revered in our culture. I know many people particularly in engineering/sciences who actually love those subjects. I may be a nerd but I seriously loved biology and actually considered being a marine biologist. I didn't, in part, because it's not a financially viable field without a pHd.

Finally, what you are saying in your statement is your upset because you followed your heart and that's not valued, and you reject people who followed their head (and that everyone in a financially lucrative field is there ultimately because they wanted money more than the warm fuzzies you get from following your heart). And I'm kind of not ok with that. Even if the situation were that simplistic, ultimately both sides would have made sacrifices.

Finally, I'm a big proponent of the idea that you should figure out what you love and figure out how to make it profitable.

Fatdogsmells

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: But simply acknowledging it won't do much right? Something must change on the institutional level. The companies were just taking advantage of an opportunity (freed up husbands). I want companies to take advantage of opportunities in the most general sense because I want them to be profitable.

@LaComtesse: It's probably not as simple as I'm conceiving of it--that a women who wants a family can just go out and find a nice, rewarding job to pay the bills. Like I said, pregnancy/job convos are where my feminist card is most often called into question.

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: Also, capitalism didn't spring from nothingness and started whoring itself out to the masses. Capitalism was born from human activity. Whether you agree that this was positive or negative, it doesn't matter. It's not like we went to the Governments for Everyone store and chose the capitalist model. So I can blame the citizens of Earth to a certain extent for allowing capitalism to poison our lives. Because it does. You can say that capitalism, while under control of good, decent people will work amazingly and be perfect and shiny, but uh, that isn't the case. Capitalism does not flourish like that. Capitalism needs people to suffer and be poor and sick and stressed out in order to function. And when you expect people to make unfair choices like career or family, you're just capitalism's little robot pawn. You should be able to provide for your family and have a life that is productive and meaningful to others in our little ol' world. And just because we can't doesn't mean we should just throw in the towel and say, "Okay, yeah, it's a long-shot so fuck it I'll just play by the rules of the game."

meaghan2k

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SouthernComfort: Christ, that is horrible! And I'd add to your "stay in school," choose your major wisely. And I don't mean to choose a major you don't enjoy, but just to think it through. I have a very useful degree in Spanish Literature. I can't tell you how many times I've been able to randomly interject my thoughts about Cien Años de Soledad into a conversation. And that wasn't even my first major.

Meg

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @meaghan2k: What's your job? Maybe I think your job is equally as useless as you deemed mine. Chances are high it probably is.

hamburgerhotdog

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SouthernComfort: my jaw is still agape from reading that. now THAT is a story to tell your grandchildren.

rednrowdy

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: @SouthernComfort: I think we should all get in the big truck and pay Southern Comfort's former boss a visit on our way to kick Sallie Mae's ass.

blackbirdfly

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @dictator4life1: Yeah that was really awesome. When you lose your job, make sure you let us know so I can have a drink and laugh on your behalf, shithead.

hamburgerhotdog

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> In Hong Kong, where I currently reside, it's pretty much illegal to fire a pregnant woman - and if you do, you better have a damn good reason for it. They even run government sponsored ads on free to air television educating women of their rights if they are baking a babe, or a new mother. Compared to so many other human rights issues here, it still makes my heart warm when I see the ads.

weedie

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SkipToMyLou: Thanks but I am sure most people would if they need to eat.
@LaComtesse: Thank you. It was along time ago. I did run into him when I was 25 and he was taking a continuing ed class next to my supply house. He did not notice me which made it easy for me to slash his tires. Besides, I opened my own business and I bid against him sometimes. I always low ball when I know he is against me. His business is not doing so well now I hear.


SouthernComfort

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @meaghan2k: You are so right about investment bankers. It warmed my heart when Bear Stearns went under last week.

dictator4life1

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: I'd like to point out that a lot of people are "drowning in debt" for many other reasons that don't include selfishly having children and getting a dog. Or even a home. A lot of people have debt, because they selfishly went to school, or you know, got sick.

I get your main point regarding career vs. job (though you are only looking at the extremes), but I don't agree with classifying anyone who has children as "selfish" (just like I hate when people say that women who decide not to have children are "selfish").

Meg

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SouthernComfort: man you should've blackmailed the motherfucker.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @dolbonner: My second to last non-profit gig had great maternity leave (well, for the US, which was like 12 weeks paid, 12 unpaid or something) and I would have taken advantage of that except that when I was one month preg (and I hadn't told anyone) my position was eliminated due to funding cuts. So I scrambled as hard as I could to get another job before the preg started to show and I was *that woman* who started a job and six weeks in announces she's having a baby. I had to really take the first job I could find, in which the maternity leave was 2 weeks paid, 4 weeks unpaid. Yeah. Right. At six weeks post-baby I couldn't even put my damn shoes on. So I had to quit.

SkipToMyLou

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: Uh, companies are the game and WE are the players. If we want shit to change, we go to the companies, not the high and mighty Capitalist King sitting at his throne. The more women complain about how they are treated for simply doing something that is natural to them (and seriously, you if think women can "control" their insticts to procreate, you are seriously whacked, because I don't even WANT kids but I still get that irrational "I WANT A BABY" feeling) the more companies will realize they've been acting like shitheads. And with women making up more than half of college populations, I would think that good ol' capitalism will want them to stick around and be a bit happier.

@teapartys_over: Yeah, I don't know. I don't give a fuck if investment bankers are working hard, because I don't even think their jobs should exist (because I'm an anarcho-commie-pinko feminist, fo' so'). Doctors, yes, they're great and they should keep on truckin'. And raising kids is fucking hard. Fiddling around with numbers doesn't really carry the same weight for me as caring for a human life. But that's me.

meaghan2k

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @LadyNo: I never trusted him, he has a penis afterall, but I didn't see that coming.
@blackbirdfly: I just wanted to move on. Sad to say that isn't even the worst employment story I have. Stay in school kids!
@J.D.Regent: Nope. Just unemployment which was 1/2 of what my crap salary was weekly for six months.
@dictator4life1: No way. I learned early on to stay out of people's relationships. Karma always kicks in for us all.




SouthernComfort

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @Lizawithazee: Did we have the same boss? My job function was such that when I was finally promoted out of the position (mid-way through my maternity leave)it took 3 people to fill the role I left. I never missed a day due to pregnancy, and would just sit at my desk and sweat my way through morning sickness, and he still treated me like a second-class citizen.

He was terrified that I was going to go into labor at work and he would have to drive me to the hospital. If I could have arranged it to be so, I would have been sitting in his office chair when my water broke. Alas.

raphaela

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SouthernComfort: ... *blink* *blink* *blink* *hugs you fiercely*

@reader123: I think we agree with one another to a point regarding "job" and "career": I myself have always made the disctinction, because I do feel a career takes your whole being and doesn't give enough time for a family. However, I still think that there's a huge obstacle in allowing women who choose to have children in having a fulfilling JOB even.

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: well you could start by acknowledging that when these companies make allowances for people, it's not just people being selfish and wanting big cars, it's the companies making some acknowledgment of the free labor they have benefited from all this time.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SouthernComfort: I am speechless. You sound like you stood up for yourself at 19 in a way I'm sure not many people could have. Good for you!

SkipToMyLou

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @J.D.Regent: Two very very good points. 1) In a democratic society the government should be responsible to the people, not the independent companies within the society.

2) Yes, these companies were/are subsidized. And yes, this has to be dealt with. I'm not smart enough to propose any solution however.

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @dictator4life1: Oh that woulda been awesome.

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: I'm gonna say this: I kinda see your point.
And let's not all get fired up over this.


BAngieB

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SkipToMyLou:
I know, right?

Except, ugh, my public interest law gig has horrible benefits. My husband did a spit take when he found out my maternity leave was unpaid. Well, that's half-true - THEY MADE ME USE UP ALMOST ALL MY VACATION AND SICK DAYS toward my leave. So I had only a handful of days to use when I came back to cover the whole rest of the year (LilBonner was born very early in the year) and I scrambled to save them up for when he or I were REALLY sick (because we were worn out and always kinda sick). Worst of all, in the middle of the year my childcare fell apart, and I needed time to arrange for daycare. When I told my boss I needed to take a brief unpaid leave to do this, she told me "Well, I guess this is your two week's notice, than." ARGH. Luckily, I got things covered in time - but - really, they would rather go through the effort of hiring someone new, rather than give me like two weeks off? WTF? So much for entering a man's profession, no? Worked our SO WELL for this feminist. Sigh. wouldn't give me a place to pump breast milk, either, (I don't even have my own office, sigh)but I have the world's greatest coworkers (in case you wonder why i didn't quit) who accomodated me by letting me use their offices.


dolbonner

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SouthernComfort: I really hope you told his wife about the mistress.

dictator4life1

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SouthernComfort: I hope it was a BIG check.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @georgewroth: That's bullshit, though. Women who stay home and raise children (and MEN who stay home and raise children) ARE contributing to society. They are raising the next generation--how is that not a fundamental contribution? Isn't teaching a fundamental contribution? Parenthood is part of teaching. We have this whole concept of productive vs. non-productive members of society, but that whole paradigm is off. Hirshman's argument is rooted in a classist structure that depends on the labor of marginalized individuals (poor women, who are largely immigrant women or women of color) in order to promote a specific, male-centered, capitalistic value system.

I'm a good capitalist, but Hirshman is full of misogynistic shit. She's been drinking the kool-aid, but is so blinded by her own ideology that she doesn't even realize it.

snarkhunting

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SouthernComfort: Revolting! I can't even imagine.

Maybe we should have a broke ass public interest lawyer get together since there are so many of us here. But then none of us can afford to go anywhere. Hmmm.

blackbirdfly

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @meaghan2k: I think your conflating my use of "job" and "career." I completely support what you're doing. You have a job and have made the rest of your life your main priority. You made a choice and are sticking with it--that's all I'm asking anyone to do.

RE capitalism, this I totally agree with. Completely and entirely. But hate the game, not the player. Capitalism made the rules and companies are just playing by them. You can't fault companies for trying to be profitable. Fault capitalism.

reader123

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SouthernComfort: Oh. my. god.

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @SouthernComfort: Oh my god, that's horrifying. I'm proud of you for sticking to your guns, especially at such a young age. It's scary when somebody you think you can trust turns out to be a raging asshole.

LadyNo Fondles Sweaters

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> Also, why isn't it greedy to want kids? Most of the people who reproduced in my hometown did so b/c they wanted little replicas of themselves to match the new house and the two SUVs and so that other people would pay attention to them (the adults, not the kids). Of course, they didn't actually parent their children.

I support people who want to have kids to raise them well and make the world a better place, etc. But just making a baby does not automatically perform that service. I've seen too many people have kids, dust their hands off and expect everyone around them to pick up the slack. Those kids, by and large, will NOT grow up to be great contributions to society and I resent the implication that acknowledging that, or not having kids myself (partly b/c I know I'd be a lousy parent) is somehow detrimental to the larger social health.

sixseeds

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> I would like to clarify my previous statement. I do want kids, eventually, and I hope the company that I work for at that time has a fair and responsible maternity leave plan. I don't get annoyed when women for going out on maternity leave. The company I used to work for had a very generous maternity plan and everyone pitched in on the work while they were away. I was stating that as a young woman at the time (23/24), it bugged the crap out of me that I was expected to work only nights and weekends because people with kids wanted the desirable hours of 7-3. Oh, and don't even get me started on working holidays.

KittensMcgee

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @meaghan2k: oh, I don't know about MORE work. Those high-powered business types work their asses off. I'm not saying raising kids isn't hard, it surely is. But you don't have anyone looking over your shoulder all the time, and there are down times. And you're at home, doing something you enjoy. I'm all for staying home, but sometimes I think we go a little overboard with this "we're doing the most important job in the world" business. I mean, if I stay home it's a combination of doing what I feel is best for my kids, and keeping a certain quality of life for me and my household. It's mostly a happiness choice, I think kids in daycare really aren't any better or worse off. And I'm mighty glad there are people out there doing other "important" work, like being neurosurgeons and solving global warming and such. Just because I'm not overly ambitious doesn't mean I'm going to pretend I do the most important job in the world. (I know those weren't your words, you just said it was equally hard. So maybe I'm arguing a point you weren't really making, if so I'm sorry!)

teapartys_over

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: but also i would submit that these successful companies have been SUBSIDIZED by women's free labor for all of history. it's an illusion that people can be available all day all the time, an illusion made possible by uncompensated labor at home. this has to be dealt with.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> When I was pregnant I worked as a secretary for a contractor. Part of my duties were to have his Dewar's on the rocks ready for him and to make sure I never confused the office line and private phone lines. The private line was for his mistresses. A real prince, no?

He was great about my pregnancy at first and told me I could use an empty office as a nursery since being young and uneducated there was no way child care was an option for me. One day I told him I needed to go have a genetic test performed and needed the day off. When I returned the next day, my key would not work so I left and called him from a nearby friend's house. He informed me that since my child was going to be "retarded" he no longer needed me because he would be damned if the goverment was going to make him pay for the time off I was going to require. Huh?

I went to file unemployment and was told that I was denied because he said I abandoned my position. I appealed and he was given the option of letting me win or hiring me back. He chose the latter but upon my return I was moved into a concrete, non air conditioned shed that housed boxes, rats, and roaches. In Florida. In the summer. I let his red neck ass know that if he thought I would turn tail and leave he was sadly mistaken. Two weeks later he came into my shed and handed me a letter and said "You win. Enjoy my money you Welfare Queen."

This was 1990. I was 19 with little education and the State could care less so I was happy to get what I got. Sorry for the long post, maybe it should have been a Crap E-mail from a Boss story.

SouthernComfort

]]> <![CDATA[Discrimination Complaints By Pregnant Women Are On The Rise]]> @reader123: there is a LOT of gray area between "partner at a top corporate defense firm" and stay at home mom. but yeah i understand from a policy perspective not wanting companies to pay for it or bear the burden. that's why i'm for a SERIOUSLY progressive tax code. that would also help ease some of the inequality problems bubbling underneath this issue. but some people don't seem happy with that option either.

J.D.Regent

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