marin79

marin79

Jamie Sommers

IOW, the wrong Clinton woman is running for prez. :-P

Jamie Sommers

Could Moe and Sinister secretly twins...EVIL TWINS?

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

GENIUS.

southbeachriot

eatsshootsleaves

eatsshootsleaves

Are you looking for a list of women that could run for prez?

Here's ya go:

Feinstein
Pelosi
Kristy Todd Whitman
Jane Harman
Janet Napolitano
Jean Shaheen
Susan Collins
Olympia Snowe

Just off the top of my head. All of these people have more experience than Hillary. This is the most annoying canard out there...like Hillary is the ONLY women that qualifies. This is an insult to women that have grinded it out in politics rather than riding the coattails of her husband. Shame on you Entonces...Shame on YOU.

If you want to play identity politics...I think you'd be harder pressed to find as many african americans that could make the run as women.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

However, how many black politicians can you name that aren't thought of as stupid, pandering, shit-starters, or racist (isn't it incredible how many black politicians are thought of as racist?)? It goes both ways.

eatsshootsleaves

It's never ok to sit down and have a heart to heart chat with Richard Mellon Scaife about another democrat.

I think that pretty much says it all.

As for the Kosovo things...I don't think Hillary has to worry too much. It's not like it fits into any sort of narrative out there about her or Bill being dishonest or what not. And Hillary hasn't really played up her foreign policy experience in comparison to Obama's...so no biggie.

It was an honest mistake. Barack and co should just let it go like Hillary's cohorts would.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

Jesus, people, calm down. Can't we all disagree without stupid personal attacks? TRANSCEND, people, TRANSCEND! [/obamatard]

eatsshootsleaves

I'd say the reason you hate Obama (classy squared) is that it could represent that people your age are only a WEE bit less relevant nowadays after being fawned over your whole damn life.

For the record...I don't give a shit about the sixties. I don't give a shit about Woodstock. But feel free to talk about Altamont all you like.

Maybe you can update us on what happened to the Chicago Seven? Where are they now? Like one of those behind the music thingees.

We know what happened to Bobby Seale...he sell barbecue and shills for Ben and Jerry's.

What happened to Abbie Hoffman?

What happened to Jerry Reuben?

What happened to the other four that I am happy to say kept a low enough profile that I don't know their names?

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

Well...I'm glad to see there's no shame in your game...talking about 18 month of sexist bad press and then calling Obama the magical Mullato.

Classy.

And please keep up the "you young people" stuff. That will definitely draw people to Hillary...looking forward to 4 more years of that shit.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

STICKSnSCONES

And the reason that I do trust Hillary is b/c of her record representing my state. She's done a great job for the state of NY & has won over a lot of the people who hated her when she was First Lady. I think she's brilliant, tough & inspirational (albeit in a personal way to me given that I work in a total man's world). I think her policies are better than Obama's on a whole & I like that she's spent a lot of time talking about them. I personally don't dislike Obama. I think he's a good person & a fantastic second choice, but his platform just doesn't speak to me personally. Plus, I see no reason why I should trust him either given that he doesn't have much to point to to back it up. But I'll certainly get behind him if he's the candidate & defend him to my Republican friends as fiercely as I've defended Hillary to my Dem friends!

marin79

ArtfulSlingerBARACKED THE VOTE

whyknot

IamnotStarJones

Seriously, Marin you and PPG are too sweet and sincere to be on the other side. Come with us and get on this ticket of hope and change. Leave Entonces behind, because she's mean and jaeded and she "Oh, snap(ped)!!" me.

Real talk: I get the honesty as a gimmick aspect of campaigning- truly. But regardless of O's sincerity (I believe it to be both strategic and authentic), I don't think Hills is trustworthy. Obviously, her fans see something I don't.

I most defintiely respect her. Bitch is badass, no doubt about it. Her sacrifices and acheivements don't go unnoticed (I'm a professional woman with no kids, no hubby, and I have made a few sacrifices of my own to "make it" in my world, so I can only imagine how hard it was for her). None of that makes me want her to be president. I could enumerate all the reasons why I don't think O is weak on defense and the economy (notice I didn't mention healthcare becasue I think she has him on that one), but we've had that convo before, so I will spare you the repeat!!

STICKSnSCONES

whyknot

whyknot

whyknot

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

AND I AM DONE. :)

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

marin79

whyknot

i do see, they have so many years of appalling behavior to each other - we are foolish to always just looks at israels POV and say, oh yeah, we're fine with that - attacking lebanon? we'll rush you some more bombs, no prob!

whyknot

marin79

marin79

I don't think anyone is unaware of what the Powers of the world claim they are FOR, or what Israel has done and not done--and the Palestinians have done and not done. It's what they ignore that is the problem, do you see? Everyone wants change and improvement.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

Oh come on now! No one was saying that Obama or Hillary shouldn't run on their beliefs. (And I'm calling bullshit on the Hillary not having believes, btw!) We're saying that to be elected you have to find a balance btwn candidly speaking about what you believe & not alienating a diverse group of supporters. No politician can go out there and just say what they think - even if it makes a ton of sense - and have a viable chance. (Think Kucinich!)

Plus, lets be honest, this whole honestly/change thing is a strategy at the end of the day. They capitalized on the views many people have about the Clintons. And have done it VERY well! I'm not arguing that Obama also doesn't believe in honesty & change - I think he does. I'm just saying that he needs to be careful not to take it too far. This strategy might win him in nomination, but it could also lose him the general if he's not careful. (And I think his campaign probably understands that, so hopefully it's a non-issue!)

marin79

J.D.Regent

whyknot

1) Hillary does run on her beliefs, now more than ever. Her platform is VERY progressive and reflects her actions since she was a law student in 1903.

2) Why hasn't YOUR GUY clinched the nod? Oh, shnap!

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

But not cuzza haterade. Because of his crap health care plan, cravenly doing the magical mulatto thing, and being a weak-ass on defense. Also I think he's annoying, but whatever.

YOU ARE TOTALLY AN INNOCENT FLOWER! DON'T GO DOWN THE PRIMROSE PATH! LISTEN TO ME!!!!!!! ;)

It is important not to sell yourself out. But it's also important for you high-principled young people -- and that is not a criticism -- to recognize what it takes to become a Hillary Clinton, both in terms of her remarkable achievements and what she's had to give up. Making allowances is not selling out--it's the political equivalent of having to wear a suit to work and take out those crazy tongue rings....

......DOESN'T THAT HURT?????

Everyone always thinks if you bring up Israel you are saying "Don't criticize Israel!" The worst I would do is ever say to someone you're wrong and here's why (inherent "dumbass" appended, obviously).

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

marin79

I think it's important to not sell yourself out. Call me young or naive (I'm one but not the other- you can pick!) but obvs I'm not alone. If supporting Obama is a matter of youth and naivete, why then has HRC not clinched the nod? All the older smarter people should've figured out how to off this guy already. Where's Tanya Harding, dammit!???

As for FL, I was born and raised there. My fam still lives there. I can't speak for everyone but I think you exaggerate how 'they' feel. The peole there that would've voted for him before are still going to vote for him. Perhaps some of the Hillary supporters will not, but that seems to be a problem whether there's a revote or not. [politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com]

And, I don't think you're KKK or Rumsfeld. You make some of the most informed comments on these posts. But I totally think you drink O haterade. But it's cool, I know it tastes good;)

Last, you're right about the ALIENATION of core supporters. I was reacting more so to the idea that talking about Israel means you can't criticize its behaviors or policies in any way. But every perceived wrong, regardless of it's validity, is important in this election, so I admit, it isn't wise to ruffle these particualr feathers. (I think I put too many commas in that sentence but my eyes are crossing so "uncle!" on the sentence structure.)

STICKSnSCONES

J.D.Regent

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

J.D.Regent

snarktasticly

marin79

marin79

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

I gave her big props for not piling on, only to read this article today and see that we're back in the sandbox. She should know better; that's what's so damn frustrating about the whole thing.

Jamie Sommers

marin79

@whyknot: Very true about Tel Aviv. But this is less because of any truthiness in any sector--when you're home, it's easy to criticize your own government, same as here. But it's like being abroad--when you're in Europe, I get so frustrated with the un-nuanced, aggressive level of anti-Americanism abroad, you're just like--whatever, you racist mothers, you colonized THE WORLD.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

marin79

I fucking love Galaxy Quest.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

I'm not sure what you mean be "freer" conversation. In my experience each side in the US is happy to jump down the other's throat. I actually haven't really said anything about my views on Israel; I've said how stupid Obama is to have "taken" sides so aggressively. Do you see the difference? Power, Malley, Brezinski, McPeak--not new to the conversation, not interested in new discussion; interested in changing policy.

I think if you had someone who had been aggressively bipartisan, effective, and active, hard-liner supporters would be annoyed, but many other Jews would be fine with it. Does that make sense?

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

J.D.Regent

J.D.Regent

@entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: Since McCain is going to Israel and holding hands with Lieberman, he is trying to court the conservative jewish population. I think with Obama, he might be looking at the youth generation, who as you said have a different relationship with their "homeland" as a different breed who do not neccessarily need to hear about his thoughts on Israel at this moment. But I truly don't know enough about Obama's plans on a lot of issues, which gets me a little worried.

ArtfulSlingerBARACKED THE VOTE

You said I think Barack is anti-Semitic--I didn't. I said he is embracing advisers that go over poorly with American Jews and voters who prioritize defense.

You're saying 'cater', which is whatever, I don't want to get into your sarcasm, I don't give a shit. I think running solely on your "actual beliefs" is about as stupid and ineffective as the "I was just being honest" line in real life. If you've ever read my comments here, you'd have seen that I demand strategy from politicians. To transmit beliefs that will ALIENATE you from a population, especially when you are so anodyne and vague otherwise, strikes me as nitwitted, as well as deeply naive. It attracts people whose main goal is to dismantle politics of politics, rather than see politics used effectively.

[www.tnr.com]

Florida went for Gore over Bush. And again, yes, Florida voters will see themselves as disenfranchised, not as enabling Obama to maintain his noble campaign unmolested, yes.

It seems to be such a problem of Obama voters that you can't see how anyone else in the U.S. sees things--and that you think discussing it is tantamount to haterade. You're not the only moral beings in the universe, everyone who disagrees with you isn't in line with Rumsfeld or the KKK. Grow up.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

Also, yes, it was the DNC that made the big boo-boo with taking away the voters voice. But Obama's campaign also blocked a re-vote and vocalized that they would follow what the DNC decides to do. Not even close to being as complicit in this whole mess as the FL/MI officials & the DNC. But I don't know how many voters will actually draw that distinction. I think it would have been better for the Dems in Nov as a whole if there had been a revote. (And it might not have even hurt his campaign - I think the probably would have split the states).

marin79

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

My point was that she should be sensitive to the idea that a personal relationship with another (be it husband or pastor) is a private matter one cannot judge when looking from the outside in.

Who is she (or anyone for that matter) to say Obama shouldn't have a relationship with Wright because she doesn't like some of the things she's seen about him in the media - which by the way are not "fundamental issues" or tenants of this church?

Jamie Sommers

J.D.Regent

whyknot

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

STICKSnSCONES

J.D.Regent

One of my favorite Daily Show moments was when Jon Stewart told one of the guys from the Bush admin that they'd probably made Hillary Clinton the most powerful POTUS in history! (This was clearly back when Hillary was crushing Rudy in the polls!) The Bush crony looked like he was going to throw up! It was awesome.

marin79

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

J.D.Regent

J.D.Regent

J.D.Regent

I truly think the power of the executive branch will shrink perforce--NO ONE is willing to abuse it as much as Shrub. Except, you know, McCain.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

J.D.Regent

J.D.Regent

Kerry lost quite a few voters on this issue too--they went to Bush. I don't think Bush cares that much about Israel at all but he wasn't stupid enough to undermine himself on the issue.

There are also a NUMBER of independents and Republicans (NOT the ones voting in Dem primaries; real ones) who drink the Kool-Aid of change as well. But they are NOT usually that wiggly on security. They might take someone neutral--they won't take someone who seems like he's going to retire all the B-2 bombers and turn them into playgrounds. Obama is pushing this line, and I don't get it. He *has* the Left already, especially because of Hillary's vote. He doesn't have to come out swinging on the peacenicking thing; he only stands to lose.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

Or ar you just saying he's not being political enough? Or that his strategy should be obtaining votes at the cost of his actual beliefs about what's best for the country? Because I'd rather hear more 'real' talk about the Middle East and less politics any day of the week.

Or are you just implying that he won't get elected, period? Because we've all heard that before and it's basically akin to saying nothing at all since he's in the race and doing well and obviously has a lot of support.

And as for Florida...HE disenfranchised the voters? Really? Thought it was the DNC rules that fucked them over. And frankly, I don't think any DEM will take Fl over McCain, but only time will tell.

Guess I'm not sure how to take any of those remarks...they kinda reek of haterade.

STICKSnSCONES

J.D.Regent

i hope some enterprising person in NY is selling "i'm fucking dave paterson" buttons, b/c that would crack my shit up and i'm sure sarah s. wounldn't mind the rip. not hung-over today, so go ahead and flame me, i'm ready!

whyknot

I have seen Obama throw on a kipa as well as the rest of him, and the younger Jewish community, who has much less of a connection to Israel as a "homeland" or whatever, seem perfectly able to vote for him, since they are generally all bleeding-heart and not that informed about US defense anywhere. They don't remember Brzezinski, they seem optimistic about talking to Ahmadinejad (unacceptable), to say nothing of Hamas, and they don't even know what coercive diplomacy is.

And I think Obama could have gotten away with one or even TWO advisers with this history. But four--FOUR--aggressively towing this line? Right now "I" am having a hard time voting for him. I will be thinking hard about this. That's fucking insane, if you're alienating a lefty leftier voter like me, and a goddamn rookie mistake--arrogant, blind, the whole nine. That's why McCain is rushing off to Israel NOW.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

marin79

I have been wondering the working class situation as well, since Obama really hasn't come out, not that I am aware of, and discuss the financial issues effecting that constituency.

ArtfulSlingerBARACKED THE VOTE

GigiB

Oh well.

Also, I got a giggle when you used vaccuum right before "behoove" as I read "Behoover" (as in vaccuum). You may have not intended it, but it was a delightful play on words.

KimberleeJ

sell_out

J.D.Regent

J.D.Regent

And to even attempt to say she hasn't been raked over the coals over the Bill situation is ridiculous. And people are now doing it to Chelsea.
[www.cbsnews.com]

ArtfulSlingerBARACKED THE VOTE

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

KimberleeJ

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

I am actually quite perplexed by Obama's team on this. Between Power, who advocated UN troops on the ground to protect Palestinians, Malley, Brzezinski, and now McPeak, he's alienating two core constituencies he needs in the GE--the security-minded Dems and the moderate conservatives, who, both Jewish and non-Jewish alike, hold our strong alliance with Israel as a key element of our foreign policy globally, to say nothing of in the Middle East!

Couple this with his disenfranchisement of voters in Florida, and he's lost that swing state. He has no support among working-class voters compared with McCain. He CAN'T seriously think the country is reflective of a caucus in Iowa, can he? This type of non-strategy bodes really poorly for the GE.

He's also just chosen his advisers who are generally irksome to American Jews, most of whom would like to see peace--but not at the cost of blaming Jews for anti-Semitism in the fucking Middle East and all the problems of the world.

That's, you know, France's job.

....and I am actually in support of bailing out banks, as long as they bail out homeowners and people bankrupted by health care costs too. Baltimore actually has a number of community housing programs in the black community and has for many years to encourage people to buy homes, and this progress has been WALLOPED by predatory refinancing. Of course it hits black women the hardest.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

I'm a very, very paranoid person. I KNOW they're out to get me.

I was searched twice at the airport on Sunday, yo. Seriously!

(On the upside, the duty-free Benefit Justine face kit I bought it awesome. I know it's VERY O/T but I've been DYING to mention it: [www.sephora.com]

I love duty free)

KimberleeJ

And I do see what you're saying too. I don't want to be a Cheerup kind of person dwelling on these little things. But I'm with JD in wanting a return to transperancy in government. And, I realize that for years, there HAS been a right wing conspiracy against the Clintons, and her reluctance to release them is probably founded in her paranoia about how the Republicans will distort things. But, I really just want her to put down her dukes, so to speak, and fight them with truth instead of tactics.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

J.D.Regent

marin79

YMMV is one of my favorites, it means "Your Mileage May Vary." As per Urban Dictionary:

Literally, "Your Mileage May Vary," coming from the small print in (American?) automobile commercials in the 70's and 80's. It has come to mean an acknowledgement that the opinion of the poster may not be shared by everyone.

KimberleeJ

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

J.D.Regent

marin79

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

lermanzo

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

"Given all that we have heard and seen, he would not have been my pastor," Mrs. Clinton, of New York, said on Tuesday of the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., at a news conference in Greensburg, Pa. She made similar comments earlier in the day in an interview with The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. "While we don't have a choice when it comes to our relatives, we do have a choice when it comes to our pastors or our church," she said.

Wow. That's a shame Hillary felt the need to say that because I doubt she'd appreciate being on the receiving end of that quote if you change the words I italicized to the following:

husband
parents
spouses or friends

Jamie Sommers

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

SinisterRouge

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

SinisterRouge

i, for one, am glad that corporations have decided to give a portion of their gluttonous profits back to the people in their communities that most need it.

lermanzo

marin79

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

Political Party Girl

J.D.Regent

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

Although when the average home price is about 60K and rent is still on par with most midmarket cities you'd be nuts not to buy.

kellyhelene

And my analogy is relevant, as the "if you're not doing anything wrong so what do you have to hide" argument just doesn't fly to me, and it's not how things work in this country, whether you are me or a candidate. Her "hiding" something is an irrelevant argument, as she has no obligation at this point. Non-disclosure is not the same as deception.

YMMV.

KimberleeJ

marin79

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

J.D.Regent

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)