I know that sentence might make it seem like my IQ dropped a good 10 points, but it is something I think should really be shared, with everyone I know.

But I don't care.

I was the girl in MATH453:The Theory of Chaos reading her Vogue when the lectures got dull.

Sukie in the Graveyard

If someone seriously finds Henry Miller sexy, I'm going to have to drop-kick them in their warped heads.

I love feeling beautiful and personal style/grooming is an important way to express ourselves. But let's be honest. There is a good reason why fashion and the Fashion Industry have gotten a bad name for itself. Arbitrary rules, wasteful consumption, destructive female self-perception and all wrapped up as one capitalist's bitchy and self-hating punch line with a $1000 price tag?

eri401

jammiriffic

ClaudiaMaria

one of my bosses, a woman raking in the 6 figure salary plus bonuses world, with a bachelors from some ivy league shit, sometimes shows some of the tatas. it's pretty under her silk blazers.
stopped equating looks/fashion sense/cleave shots with lack of intelligence when i got out of highschool and grew - a little- the fuck up. but i'm guilty of other judgemental shit: dudes, in general

carlangus

Jezebabe

I kinda feel like Tom Cruise in that wacky Scitolovideo where he gets all intense (surprise) and says he "knows" that he's the only one who can help. Except, of course, I can't.

STICKSnSCONES

kate.d.

SBJ

Mego

I'm just saying. You have to be the change you want to see, y'know?

PilgrimSoul

ilovejohnnythunders

GatorGirl

DorothyZbornak

Said Not

Said Not

SBJ

P.S. My poop analogy was not meant to be hateful, but funny. Poop is funny.. Poop.

BiscuitDoughJones

And bring your gun.

@PilgrimSoul: Because trolls don't get banned unless they say something REALLY atrocious. If you have a real problem with it, tell the editors. I'm not snarking, I'm being truthful. If they nipped problems in the bud, we wouldn't have to do this. The more people who complain about bad comments, the more the editors will get the message that quality is going down and no one's happy about it.

not.a.clever.name

SBJ

@a.clever.otter: And you?

Lady Skittlehattington

Not even sure why I'm bothering to say this...

PilgrimSoul

PICKLES_IN_MY_TUNA

BAngieB

SarahMC

BAngieB

BiscuitDoughJones

magiciannamedgob

SarahMC

(Sorry, still bitter that comments are approved willy-nilly here while other gawker sites are tighter and therefore don't have the troll infestation we have here).

not.a.clever.name

This could have been a really interesting part of this post's discussion, but it turned into Hateration. We don't need no Hateration. Or Holleration. So make a decent argument or take the over-punctuated train elsewhere. Thanks.

hortense

SarahMC

myrtlebeachbum

BiscuitDoughJones

SBJ

I can come up with childish insults as well, you know.

ineffable.me

Catty Is Cumbersome

For example. In my (bizarre) workplace, dressing like a slob is actual a badge of honor for men and women alike (if you look like crap, it must mean you're working really, really hard), and so dressing in a way that I enjoy is a little act of rebellion, a way of saying, "Nope, you can't take away my WHOLE life!" Is "a way that I enjoy" probably influenced by a fucked, racist, economically elitist patriarchal system that exploits basically everyone except rich white businessmen? I can't deny it: God knows the idea of wearing leggings again didn't come from the ether. ("Preference deformation" you human rights activists would call that!!) But is fashion for me also more than just blind acceptance--do I take what's thrown at me & do my own thing with it? Probably some of each--so then my question to myself is, is what I'm doing ENOUGH of a resistance that it outweighs the obvious capitulation of, say, buying a pair of high heels even though I am just SO DAMNED CONVINCED they are secretly about hobbling women...

GoodMorningAngels

lalaland13

Zouk!

BiscuitDoughJones

BAngieB

Catty Is Cumbersome

A true Jezzie = the unapologetic "quintessential"* woman!

*by her set definitions..

Having said that, you dont fit in here and should find a new blog to gripe, whine and bitterize!

u hear??!

Zouk!

BadenBaden

Except, I'm not, and you're a sucky person.

BadenBaden

SBJ

Lady Skittlehattington

Zouk!

Zouk!

Zouk!

kthnxbai.

not.a.clever.name

BiscuitDoughJones

Zouk!

SinisterRouge

myrtlebeachbum

SinisterRouge

I crave Louboutin shoes as much as I need to get my Friday fix of the Economist (when i get my subcription) and my saturday night pickup of the Sunday NYT ( yes, i'm so obsessed that its rare that i buy the times on Sunday morning, no matter how drunk i am i always remember my first love).

True story: got royally fucked up one night and while making many runs to the loo to piss of the liquor, for some reason, i continued asking for our waiter to get me a copy of the NYT or the economist as i left mine at home. Yes, LAMEST drunk EVER! i know.

tokenblackgirl

DorothyZbornak

c'est bon??

Zouk!

It's also a schism I see on Jezebel a lot- we're featuring today's fashion shows, followed by a semi-scathing indictment of their vapidity. So thanks for bringing it up!

LookyLoo

First you know nothing about what I do for a leaving or how much I earn!!!!

Is there some rulebook on "exactly how much" to spend on a handbag to make a woman smart????!?!?!!?

Its rejoinder's like this that show you for what you really are...A HATER!!!

Focus on finishing your GEDs and make something of yourlife, so you dont "bitterize" at another success!!!!

p.s. I'm going to make sure you see this!!!

Zouk!

LahFawnDuh

That example might, however, be equivalent to my wearing a too tight, too short skirt with CFMPs.

bigleggedwoman

Catty Is Cumbersome

VEHEMENT DISAGREEMENT. I mean, she could just have BIG TITS and NO SHIRTS that fit them like almost everyone with tits bigger than a B cup does. I HATE it when people think that just because you got big tits it means your brain is conversely proportional to their size!

But seriously -- Sometimes I feel like my professors are judging me based on my clothes, because I like to put together cute things and a lot of students in my program aren't so much into that. Not to sound all Legally Blonde about it, but I don't know what's worse -- some guy on the street who whistles at you for daring to look how you want to look or some other girl who silently judges you out of disdain and/or jealousy.

TeenageGangDeb

boobalore

Catty Is Cumbersome

ineffable.me

Catty Is Cumbersome

rantersparadise

not.a.clever.name

fashionintelligentsia

sequined

SarahMC

BAngieB

LaFemme

FondlemySweaters

Ms T. Pointy-Winkelstein

hamburgerhotdog

ineffable.me

And aren't we all too familiar with the bastardization of this concept/phenomenon as well, that the scavengers and the leeches slowly feed upon and then take over something that began as an authentic, strong, robust statement and turn it into some loathsome, mass-produced, dumbed-down travesty?

Does it even need to be discussed?

SBJ

@MsPointy: We actually call him George Costanza.

not.a.clever.name

Archetype

Case in point: anyone you can nickname Mr. Nipples, unless he's a porn photographer or a Chippendales dancer, doesn't stand a fabulous chance of being taken seriously, either.

Ms T. Pointy-Winkelstein

dolbonner

SarahMC

(the snark that might be included in this comment isn't directly aimed at you)

ineffable.me

I have a boss who showed up to his interview in a yellow polo shirt with his nipples poking through. That is. not. appropriate. And it should have been an indicator that he doesn't understand basic social principles that exist in society.

It's not a hard and fast rule. It's an indicator of how people see the world and see where they fit in. Clothes talk, whether you're aware of it or not. I choose to direct the message I send.

not.a.clever.name

I am glad you brought this up. It's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to buy apparel that has not been produced in a completely "ethical" manner. This goes for corporate/labor/environmental issues.

Archetype

JSouth

Ms T. Pointy-Winkelstein

SinisterRouge

Rhody

retardataire

HOWEVER, what I do NOT like, is when "fashion people" (magazine editors, stylists, etc.) criticize other people for not adhering to their conventional ideas of what is "fashionable." Sometimes I'm gonna wear my leggings and ugly sneakers with my glasses and my hair in a ponytail, and I don't give a f*** what you think, stylists!

TheGintheCity

First, I worked with a lawyer who has done a great deal of anti-sweatshop litigation, against companies like Seven For All Mankind and Wet Seal, and I asked her one day what brands would be ethical to buy. She said none, really, they're all made unethically.

Second, I love fashion, and more particularly, make-up, as an art form. I was an artsy teenager, who wore no makeup and thrift store clothes, until I discovered that makeup is like art you can do every day. Now I have a ridiculous collection of eyeshadows and eyeliners and lipsticks . . . . and yet "real" artists still seem to think that looking well-groomed makes them less authentic as an artist.

formerlydictator4life1

ineffable.me

Archetype

The fact that you don't realize this (the fact that appearances aren't everything), or are pretending not to, is why lots of women are insecure about fashion, and why we have to be having this conversation to begin with.

Ms T. Pointy-Winkelstein

The five hours I have spend today writing up 80s lame blouses for my online vintage store seems to have rendered me incapable of original speech.

gherkinfiend

SarahMC

bitchney

retardataire

eleanorstrousers

I'm still pissed that my office took away our Casual Fridays because some people were showing up to work in stretch pants and inappropriate tee-shirts.

Don't they get it?

If I could choose a uniform, it would be jeans, heels and a blazer.

Archetype

ineffable.me

Because good fashion sense isn't a prerequisite to knowing what one's job entails?

SarahMC

I've always enjoyed fashion, even if it's not always reflected in what I wear. Doing costume design in college made me appreciate it even more, I think, because that really focuses on the implications/connotations of clothing.

cate3710

ineffable.me

SarahMC

When I encounter a person in a professional situation who is underdressed, overdressed, dressed in sloppy or dated clothing and/or who is not well-groomed, I take that person less seriously. Because if they don't understand what is or is not appropriate or if they don't take the time to look presentable, how can I expect them to understand what a job requires?

Likewise, I have said on numerous occasions, I can be friends with that person. We have the same shoes.

And, for the record, neither of these shallow filtering systems has failed me yet.

not.a.clever.name

moonagirl

SarahMC

LaFemme

Iconocleft

moonagirl

ineffable.me

Lymed in Cali

J.D.Regent

brendastarlet

I still agree with Freeman, though, that in any context where you want your words to matter, "much cleavage much of the time" is as bad an idea as trying to talk over loud music.

germane

@Archetype: You are right about flashing cleavage. If a woman wants to dress up and show off the girls, why is it wrong? This article is definitely playing both sides of the fence. Bringing up that a love a fashion may not denote vapidity, yet slamming people who wear a low cut top as lacking self confidence...how is this different from fashion magazines that could shred your self esteem if you let it? This is why so many women have self-esteem issues. All the secret and not so secret hating and judging. Sigh. Sad now.

BrainyHistorian

TheComeback

Accordingly, that's also how you should spend money. If it's a trendy, of the moment piece, you should spend as little as possible. If it is investment dressing (one of my favorite phrases) you should buy the best you can afford, with an emphasis on afford. Coats, suits, and the everyday bag you will use all season, are not places to economize. Other things, like tanks and t-shirts, you can economize on.

brendastarlet

I rarely read articles in fashion magazines. It's regurgitated and often condescending (not to mention hypocritical). But I LOVE looking at clothes.

Archetype

How about a little context, lady? Show me somebody with that much cleav in an evening gown or at a fetish club, and I'll show you woman perfectly dressed for the occasion.
Show me somebody in an office falling out of her blouse, and fine, I'll show you a girl everyone is talking about.

Either way, it doesn't automatically follow that the breastfully endowed among us assume that our boobs have more interesting things to say than our brains.

fluffybudgie

Lymed in Cali

Credibility? Sure. Cleavage is distracting as hell.

I only mentioned SM because I went on a Pot Psych binge last Friday. My point was that she sometimes shows a bit of cleavage, but after my initial, "oh nice boobs," I'm simply laughing because she so funny.

Archetype

I doubt I am alone in that sentiment.

Rhody

I'm living proof that women can be just as smart and fashion forward; regardless of whatever!!!

I do not care about being objectified by the men I work with or any other men whatsoever; I pick my battles wisely; thats one battle I'm not going to win, so i just deal!!!

Zouk!

ineffable.me

That said, in tv writers rooms, where I'm working now, women are not expected to be done up, and will probably get made fun of if they wear anything too fancy. Not stylish- stylish is good because, you know, it makes everybody fall a little bit in love with you and what you stand for. But stylish and cas, so you don't show up all the pudgy guys sitting around in polo shirts.

Ms T. Pointy-Winkelstein

well, let's just say you're not gonna hear "that outfit is hot, but can you do calculus?" anytime soon... and on the flip side, you girls won't be saying "i know your ass looks really good in those pants, but are you 'really' a nice guy?".

royal72

I think it does, both to herself and her coworkers. In most cases, it hurts her credibility.

You mention SM, but in her particular job, it helps her credibility when she shows some boobage. Dressing sexy is awesome if you have a job where it mixes well with business.

germane

retardataire

LBB

And, unlike other art forms in museums, they do not exist as works of art separate from their status as commodities.

not.a.clever.name

ineffable.me

andromache

Cuteasabutton

I've realized this in the past couple of months and have drastically cut down the attention I give to trends and looking flawless. Kudos to all of you who can effortlessly dress on trend and paint your face in the wink of an eye, but I'm going to have to be the devil's advocate here. We want to have it both ways, but as a culture we waste far too much precious time and energy on this stuff.

germane

I like fashion but I am in no way a fashion maven. I shop sales. Clearance racks excite me. (Today I'm wearing a shirt dress from Express that I got on clearance for $20)I like Marshalls and TJ Maxx. I buy things that I like and try to look put together and classy. That's my thing, other people like the hipster look, that's their thing. I don't think it means we're stupid or vapid.

Sev

ineffable.me

Today is not one of those days.

howdybeep (runs with monkey wrenches)

hatepaperdoll

This is becoming more annoying to me as I'm trying to find affordable, CUTE non-sweatshop clothing. I wish fashion magazines would talk about ethics, but I guess that's not their role in the machine.

CarrieMC

wawaroo

If only, though, if only more of them were concerned about the needs of those of us who know we'll never be super-cute, but just want to be comfortable and look put-together, and like we shopped sometime in the last ten years. I'm not sure that the conversation we're having is as necessary as the one I wish we were having.

TheFormerJuneBronson

sabbaticalplease

I believe fashion is completely dictated by an individual's personality and lifestyle as well as the influence of media among other things. While there are times I indulge in dressing like the aforementioned Ms. Carter most times I secretly envy actresses & socilaities who're able to afford the luxuries of modern fashion and often find myself scouraging the closest TARGET for afforable, luxury brand rip-offs.

Workinggal

Cheap clothes are most likely to be made by random sweatshops and little kids than "designer goods". Not to mention that if that's the only thing you pay attention to when you buy things, that would leave out all sorts of electronic goods, housewares and god knows what else.

ineffable.me